Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 180. (Read 56915 times)

US of A


People decided, via elections. They can decide differently in the next election, but...


... to no one's surprise (except feigned one by kremlinistas here) Russian language is losing its appeal during the invasion so I'm guessing the next election won't be favorable to that effect.

You might not be aware, but people can speak more than one language. The requirement to learn the official language of the country you live in (for example to be able to use government services) does not prevent you from using whatever other language(s) you speak, and isn't racism or discrimination. Every country including Russia works like that.

Everything you write is absolute nonsense that shows that you are here not to understand the issue. You found some obscure article and you really should have shown this:

Chronology of Ukrainian language suppression

17th century
1627 – Decree (ukase) of Tsar Michael on a petition of the Moscow Patriarch Filaret to burn in the Tsardom of Muscovy all copies of the Didactic gospels of Kyrylo Stavrovetsky [uk], one of the didactic gospels of Kyrylo Stavrovetsky.[1][2]
1688 – on the orders of Moscow Patriarch Joakim in huge fires on the streets of Moscow "Crocheted Christ" of Antin Radivilovsky [Wikidata] was burned, together with the works of prominent Ukrainian theologians Peter Mogila, Lazar Baranovych and Innocent (Giesel).[3][2]
1690 – Condemnation and anathema of the Council of the ROC for "new Kievan books" by Petro Mohyla, Cyril Stavrovetsky, Symeon of Polotsk, Lazar Baranovych, Antonius Radivilovsky [Wikidata] and others.[2]
1696 – decision of the Sejm of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth on the introduction of the polish language in the courts and institutions of the Right-Bank Ukraine.[2]
18th century
1720 – Peter I's decree banning printing in the Ukrainian language and the seizure of Ukrainian church books.[4][2]
1729 – Peter II ordered decrees and orders written in Ukraine be rewritten in Russian.[2]
1763 – Catherine II's decree banning the teaching in Ukrainian in Kiev-Mohyla Academy.[2]
1769 – Prohibition of the Synod of Ukrainian print and use the primer.[2]
1775 – The destruction of the Zaporozhian Sich and closing of Ukrainian schools at the offices of the Cossack regiment.[2]
1789 – the Polish Sejm Commission on Education ordered the closure of all Ukrainian schools.[2]
19th century
1804 – according to a special royal decree in the Russian empire, all Ukrainian-language schools were banned, which led to the complete degradation of the Ukrainian population.[5]
1817 – Introduction of the Polish language in all public schools in what is now Western Ukraine.[2]
1832 – Reorganization of education in Ukraine on the empire-wide principles and transforming all teaching into Russian language[2]
1847 – The crackdown on the Brotherhood of Cyril and Methodius and increased persecution of the Ukrainian language and culture, the prohibition of the best works of Shevchenko, Kulish, Kostomarov and others.[2]
1859 – Ministry of Religion and Science of Austria-Hungary attempt to replace Ukrainian Cyrillic alphabet with Latin in Eastern Galicia and Bukovyna .[2]
1862 – Closing Ukrainian Sunday schools for adults in the Russian part of Ukraine.[2]
1863 – Valuev Circular prohibiting censors from giving permission to the publication of Ukrainian spiritual and popular educational literature: "there was, is not and could not have been a separate Little Russian language".[2]
1864 – Adoption of the Charter of the primary school at which education was to be conducted only in Russian.[2]
1869 – Introduction of the Polish language as the official language of education and of the administration of Polish Eastern Galicia.[2]
1870 – Comment of Minister of Education of Russia Dmitry Tolstoy that "the ultimate goal of education for all inorodtsy (non-Russians, literally "people of other descent"), is unarguably their Russification."[2]
1876 - Alexander II's Ems decree banning the printing and import from abroad of any Ukrainian literature, and to ban Ukrainian stage performances and Ukrainian lyrics in music scores, that is folk songs.[6]
1881 – Prohibition of teaching in the public schools and conducting church sermons in Ukrainian.[2]
1884 – the ban by Alexander III of Ukrainian theater in all the provinces of Little Russia.[2]
1888 – a decree by Alexander III banned the use of the Ukrainian language in official institutions and of Ukrainian given names.[2]
1892 – Prohibition to translate books from Russian into Ukrainian.[2]
1895 – Prohibition by the Main Administration of Printing to publish Ukrainian-language children's books.[2]
20th century
1911 – Resolution VIIth congress of the nobility in Moscow's only Russian-language education and the inadmissibility of the use of other languages in schools in Russia.[2]
1913 – Ukrainian banned from all public schools in Alberta, Canada, home to the largest Ukrainian diaspora community in the New World at that time.[2]
1914 – Prohibition of celebrating the 100th anniversary of Taras Shevchenko, the decree of Nicholas II prohibition of the Ukrainian press.[2]
1914, 1916 – Russification campaign in western Ukraine, the prohibition of the Ukrainian word, education, church.[2]
1922 – Part of the proclamation of the Central Committee of the RCP (b), and the Communist Party (b) the "theory" of the struggle between the two cultures in Ukraine – city (Russian) and peasant (Ukrainian), which should win the first one.[2]
1924 – Law of the Republic of Poland on limiting the use of the Ukrainian language in the administration, judiciary, education subservient to the Polish lands.[2]
1924 – Kingdom of Romania law on the obligations of all the "Romanians" who "lost their mother language," to educate children only in Romanian schools.[2]
1925 – Ukrainian final closure of the "secret" of the university in Lviv[2]
1926 – Stalin's letter to "Comrade. Kaganovich and other members of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CP (B) U with the sanction of the struggle against the "national bias", the beginning harassment of "Ukrainization".[2]
1933 – Stalin's telegram to stop "Ukrainization".[clarification needed][2][7][8]
1933 – Abolition in Romania Ministerial Decree of 31 December 1929, which permits a few hours a week of the Ukrainian language in schools with a majority of students with the Ukrainians.[2]
1934 – A special order of the Ministry of Education of Romania's dismissal "for the hostile attitude of the State and the Romanian people" of all Ukrainian teachers who demanded the return to school of Ukrainian.[2]
1958 – Enshrined in Art. 20 Principles of Legislation of the USSR and the Union Republics on Public Education of the situation on the free choice of language learning, the study of all languages except Russian, at the request of students' parents.[2]
1960–1980 – Mass closure of Ukrainian schools in Poland and Romania.[clarification needed][2]
1970 – Order of the Ministry of Education of the USSR on academic thesis defense only in Russian language.[2]
1972 – Prohibition of party bodies to celebrate the anniversary of the museum Kotlyarevskyi in Poltava.[2]
1973 – Prohibition to celebrate the anniversary of Ivan Kotlyarevsky's "Aeneid."[2]
1984 – Order of the Ministry of Culture of the USSR on the transfer proceedings in all the museums of the Soviet Union, the Russian language.[2]
1984 – Back to the USSR payments increased by 15% of the salary for teachers of the Russian language in comparison with teachers of Ukrainian language.[9][clarification needed]
1989 – the decree of the Central Committee of the CPSU on "legislative consolidation of the Russian language as a nationwide".[2]
1990 – adoption by the Supreme Soviet of the USSR Law on the languages of the peoples of the USSR, where the Russian language was granted official status.[2]
21st century
2012 – The Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine draft law "On State Language Policy", which steadily narrowed the scope of use of the Ukrainian language in most of the regions of Ukraine.[10][11]
2014 – The Ukrainian language has been suppressed in Russia-occupied Crimea,[12][13][14][15] so-called Luhansk People's Republic,[16][17] and so-called Donetsk People's Republic[18][19][20][21]

Nothing has changed these days:


What do you think the ban on the Ukrainian language use in Ukraine, which has been consistently carried out by russia for centuries, has given any result? No doubt. Im surprised that people remember Ukrainian at all. Everything that is happening now with the language in Ukraine is absolutely correct, although it's a very long way that Ukraine will definitely go through.

I'm not saying that such laws exists, just replying to johhnyUA who seems to be truly bewildered why discrimination and racism go against EU values and are bad

This law forbidding law abiding ethnic Russian UA citizens from teaching their children their native language does not exist.   

Would like to ask two things: whos the bald scum and southern regions of what.

Ahh forbidding law abiding ethnic Russian UA citizens from teaching their children their native language under disguise of "decolonization" while claiming that it's not a "natural language to ukrainians" or they have to leave the country is not an indirect method aimed at forced migration at all.  . True EU values. Tell us you support ethnic cleansing without saying you support ethnic cleansing



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

It's not about who wants to return whom. The point is that russia killed 50+ people and is trying to shift the blame. Even tho the facts show that russia undoubtedly did it. That's all.

For starters, it’s generally worth remembering that the so-called “Russian language” appeared around the 18th century. Many will be surprised, but if you read historians of the 17th-18th centuries who traveled through the Muscovite lands, then it is often mentioned there that "the local people speak a strange Turkic dialect and wear Turkic robes." There are enough corresponding engravings in their memoirs. It is quite enough to look at the real Slavic peoples, their clothes, and their language. And when the Moscow ulus finally decided to impersonate supposedly Slavs, then a synthetic language was far-fetched, where Turkisms still pop up in almost every sentence. Well, the concept of barbarian tribes since the time of the Mongol-Tatar "yoke" has remained the same in Muscovy - to destroy the local culture of the enslaved peoples, history, replacing it with a fictional one, while doing everything to destroy historical documents, carriers of history, LANGUAGE, and everything , which is a kind of unifying heritage. And still nothing has changed. Just remember the words of the bald scum "the Russian world is where there is a Russian language." What thanks to him - now the majority of Russian-speaking citizens of Ukraine come to the conclusion that the so-called "Russian language" simply should not be in the law, because. is a weapon of terror and an instrument of war.

Threat I was in the southern regions for a week, I just arrived, I will say - I did not expect such a change in the mentality of the local population! The population - which had always been quite calm about Russia and the Russians before. The reason for this is simple - from the 30-50s of the last century, the south and east of Ukraine actively, forcibly replaced the indigenous Ukrainian population with people from the western outskirts of the Moscow ulus.
So, today these people, I will not fantasize that 100%, but the total majority say that the only enemy is Russia and the inhabitants of Russia. Not Russian by nationality, namely the inhabitants of Russia. So it was the bald scum and the inhabitants of Russia, to the squeals of "we are one people" (funny fantasy), that made Ukrainians blood enemies for centuries.
Well, to finish positively - wait for cool news from the south in the near future, believe me, it will be a lot of fun!

Ofc not. This is called "decolonization". The same things happens in Africa or in New Zeland with maori. Russian is not the natural language to ukrainians, this is colonial language which was forced to learn by force. So it's normal that country want to leave colonial past behind. If someone want, he can learn russian by himself or in private schools.

And yeah, russian this is not "regional language". Regional language is the language of minoritary nations which doesn't have their own countries. In Ukraine this is crimean tatar or gagauzi (minoritary nation near Moldova). And yeah, we need to help them to safe their culture.

Wow, yeah, that's not racist at all. So nice of you to only discriminate against further generations, and allowing current generation to continue to speak Russian (where majority in capital Kyiv use Russian in their everyday life) i thought there was a higher chance of Ukraine keeping it together, but after your comment, (if you in fact represent majority view) i can see how that will be impossible now.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document/EPRS_BRI(2016)589794

you contradict to yourself from previous post, here:


So, evil government of Zelensky at first want to approve this law, but then it afraid of "an inadequate public outcry". Doesn't looks logic, isn't it? For example, russian government never retreat before voice of people if they really want to approve some laws. Like it was with pension reform in 2018. Despite it was VERY unpopular between ordinary russians, it created a lot of protests, russian govenment approved this reform. So this is how really shitty countries works. Unlike democratic Ukraine, where vox populi is a real power.


 


And more important question: If this proxy war, why russia will not strike NATO, because it's obvious that if such take is true, you need to fight with a cause, not symptoms


This is sad, but even in that example, sides will not be the same. As it was with a Third Reich against USSR/England/USA. TR had bombed London and invaded USSR later, so the vengeance from England (bombardments of german cities) and USSR (occupying german lands and also bombardments of german cities) were justifed. Because it was not they who started all of it.

The same situation here.

Of course... multiple scenarios. The problem is that "testing" the scenario costed plenty of RF casualties and exposed a severe issues with communications, logistics, discipline, moral, corruption... So you bought a ticket to win the lottery and failed. You are now worse off than you started and have demonstrated the world that you cannot really wage a decisive modern war.
That is without even counting the diplomatic backslash.


Assange was not an opposition leader, nor a journalist nor someone holding a white sheet of paper. He was an ex-agent that broke every commitment he had made to his country. I am not saying if he was right or wrong, I am just stating the fact that he violated laws that every civilised nation has for the people who have access to confidential information.



No thanks:

- Firstly, I am not fifteen.
- Second, I could not care less if you decide to leave the forum so your wage has zero value to me.
- Lastly, and in any case, I would rather not bet on people's deaths and countries destroyed.

However, if you are so sure of the qualities of the glorious RF and like high stakes, join the army, you can put your body were your words are. Send us a picture.

However if, as I suspect, you wish to keep "wallposting" and betting from the safety of your chair, you can see my sponsor below, great site, good prices and excellent reputation.

My objective is to let anyone in the RF that is considering joining the RF army to understand clearly what are they getting into and how stupid is to die for Putin. What I claim about the RF army is real. Undisciplined, unready, obsolete material... all claims but little result.

Will Ukraine retake Kherson before new year? I have no idea, but I think they have a better chance now that they understand the RF capabilities and the US is starting to trust their ability to use sophisticated weapons. And there is certainly something happening in the south that looks much more promising than it was a month ago.

So how exactly is this supposed to disprove what I said? Putin has been killing and imprisoning opposition, journalists, etc for years. Regardless if you think Navalny is "real" opposition or not, that's seriously fucked up.


You got it, I'm the idiot on this point and I can admit it. Doesn't mean the Kremlin regime is not fascist though. Someone not being in prison, or not having their property taken, etc, doesn't negate the authoritarian one-party system that eliminates opposition and invades other countries on made-up pretexts.


Not for holding a blank sheet of paper, that's for sure. You remind of this old Soviet joke. A Russian and an American discuss freedom of speech in their countries. The American says "I can stand in front of the White House and yell 'Reagan is an idiot' and I won't get arrested". Russian: "Same thing here. I can stand in the Red Square and yell 'Reagan is an idiot' and I won't get arrested".


That's a good one, I was wondering how you'll twist it. Well done. When and how did the proxy war start? 2014 Euromaidan? 1991? 1945?


Putin's army invaded Ukraine, it's very obvious who the bad guy is. When Ukrainian army surrounds Voronezh and bombs the shit out of it, I'll post the same thing about Russians not meeting Ukrainian liberators with flowers. Is that going to be sufficiently "objective" for you?


There's the fact that in 30 years most of "Warsaw pact" and some former USSR members have joined EU and/or NATO, or are fighting to do so.


An example of a "Ukrainian resource":

https://pikabu.ru/story/na_banknote_nominalom_15_rubley_budet_izobrazhyon_lakhtatsentr_8050822

I don't think Ukrainians give much of a shit 5 months into the brutal war whether Kremlin trolls are true believers or getting paid. It's more of a Russian internal dispute - is the population really so brainwashed like it seems in social media, or is it mostly troll farms.

Reply to suchmoon

I will respond to your comment point by point.

Navalny


Navalny is not an oppositionist, but a naive fool who thought that for his sake the Russian people would revolt. His arrival in Russia from Germany in January 2021 is the most idiotic act. Navalny is an inflated image of an "oppositionist", beneficial to the Kremlin for some time, such as showing that Russia has its own oppositionists. Real oppositionists (such as Alexei Kungurov, whom you most likely have never even heard of) are not allowed to speak on large state information channels. At the same time, Navalny, who was constantly invited to speak on the same "pseudo-opposition" channels, such as Ekho Moskvy, which was financed by the state-owned Russian company Gazprom-Media.
At Navalny’s request, opposition leader Maxim Martsinkevich (who was tortured to death in prison in 2020), was imprisoned. At Navalny's initiative, instead of marching towards the Kremlin, a "sitting strike" was staged and a protest on Bolotnaya Square was strangled in 2013. Navalny didn't campaign for the use of real means of counteracting the system, such as strikes, tax waivers, highway closures, and so on.
By the way, here is how Alexei Kungurov commented on Navalny's imprisonment


Kiselev


You are already acting at the level of instincts, not reason. I even specifically indicated the name and surname of the journalist Yevgeny Kiselev, you apparently still confused him with Dmitry Kiselev. Yevgeny Kiselyov is a journalist in Ukraine who moved there from Russia. You do not even have a superficial knowledge of Russian-Ukrainian relations, but you still climb everywhere to criticize. But this is nothing, the main thing is that something is deposited in your head.

Find 10 differences




Protesters


Tell me, in the United States and European countries, there are no such examples in relation to protesters? What is Julian Assange sitting for, can you answer?


Is this a war or a special operation


This is a proxy war between Russia and NATO with the help of manpower in the form of Ukrainian soldiers. Evidence links: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5




Russian troops near Kyiv


Show me at least one quote from the Russian President, his ministers or the Russian General Staff that Russian troops were going to capture Kyiv. This news was trumpeted by the Western media, and then they themselves denied it, presenting it as an "unsuccessful plan of the Kremlin."
It's the same as publishing a fake everywhere that American astronauts are going to land on Mars next month, and then a month later also say that American astronauts failed to achieve their goals.
Russian troops launched a military group of about 15,000 people near Kyiv to contain the Kyiv troops so that they would not go for reinforcements to the eastern part. Russian troops were stationed there until, as a result of negotiations in Istanbul on March 29, 2022, a decision was made to remove the Russian group from that direction. It was after the negotiations that the Russian troops gone from the Kyiv region, which was then declared as "a great victory" for the Ukrainian military. By the way, how are the Ukrainian bayraktars doing there, about whom you were so worried? Something little news about them lately.


Conquered territories


How many cities were recaptured by Ukrainian troops or how many cities saw major uprisings of local residents against the Russian military?


Ukrainian nazis with flowers


You don't even try to be objective.
Of course, Ukrainian Nazis do not greet the Russian army with flowers, but many locals (who are not Nazis) greet Russian soldiers quite favorably.
I must say right away that, of course, not everyone is happy, but there are those who openly welcome the Russian army. According to the Ukrainian government, these are traitors and collaborators, who, by the way, Ukrainian soldiers can execute for treason. Therefore, it is even surprising that at least someone meets Russians at all, because it is mortally dangerous. These people are very brave.
As confirmation of my words, you can watch the video of the British TV channel Sky News. Timecode 03 min 45 sec
Or you can read an article on a French news site in the last paragraph, as French journalists report the words of the inhabitants of Lysichansk:
In addition, here are a couple of links for you to a video from Telegram, how Ukrainians meet Russian soldiers: 1, 2




Second language


The Russian language was abolished as the state language in countries such as Ukraine and the Baltic states, but was not canceled in Kazakhstan. In Russia, there are plenty of national regions where a second state language is adopted. In Ukraine, they refused to comply with the Minsk agreements and give autonomy to the Donetsk and Lugansk republics so that their Russian-speaking residents could study, work and speak Russian.


Russian influence


What official surveys and studies do you rely on in your statements?


15-ruble manual


About the 15-ruble manual is even funnier than about Kiselyov. In fact, it is on Ukrainian resources (which you allegedly do not need) that this term is very often used, so you gave yourself away with your ears.

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Reply to paxmao


You constantly talk in this thread about the future victories of Ukraine and how clumsily the Russian army is fighting. Apparently, you are very confident in the victory of Ukraine, then I offer you a bet with the following conditions:
- if Ukrainian troops manage to recapture any of these cities before January 1, 2023: Kherson, Mariupol, Melitopol, then I will leave this forum forever.
- if the Ukrainian troops until January 1, 2023 are NOT able to recapture any of these cities: Kherson, Mariupol, Melitopol, then you will leave this forum forever.
If you're not ready for this bet, then maybe you will stop your wishful talking?

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Reply to Waradlain


Russia was very reluctant to return the prisoners from Azovstal to Ukraine, which is why it exchanged 144 soldiers, including prisoners from Azovstal, for Russian soldiers. You are quoting some nonsense.
It amazes me that such primitive things have to be explained. Nevertheless, it is not surprising that so many people are ready to believe in the most diverse Ukrainian nonsense.

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Reply to TwitchySeal


As for Kyiv, I commented in this post above.

I also have a question for people here: Why this is bad? I mean in reality de-russification == de-colonization , so why this is bad? Im' living in Ukraine, and never seen that people were forbidden to speak russian. But yeah, new generations should learn their own language, not some imperialistic and colonial "языГ". So this is like: you are allowed to speak russian, but your children will be ukrainian speaker, if you don't want so you could leave to russia.


 


We're listening you, ms colonel of army  


Yep, because they had no intention of taking Kyiv, they attacked from the North and move all their forces as close to Kyiv as they could. Sounds legit


"just pack up and leave" nice sound but shitty in reality. I MYSELF seen a lot of dead russian soldiers on the street borders in Ivankiv, after de-occupation. So, in you mind this is just "pack up and leave". Let me fix you: "Lost a lot of tanks, ifv, helicopters, few thousands of soldiers and then just pack up and leave with washing machines and microwave ovens"


OMG 

'Media companies' that are an interegral part of the corp/gov system have no worries.  Individuals working within such entities are fine too if they stay within the confines.  Readers who limit themselves to the propaganda get what they deserve; a low-overhead brainwashing.

German citizen Alina Lipp is a poster-child for media which is not beholden to the aforementioned corp/gov conglomerate.  She's facing three years in German prison for going to Donbas and reporting to the world what she sees, and there are many in her same boat.  Now Ukraine has taken out contracts on people like her who report what Zelensky/Kolomoyski don't want reported...and people like you are still perfectly happy to clean Zelensky's asshole with your tongue because it's all that you know.


Funny enough, it is 'no different'; this is yet another thing you invented in your mind.  My position has been consistent: The temperature of the earth has been drifting higher since the last ice-age ended.  Go ahead and find something I said which conflicts with that if you want to waste your time.

Edit: https://www.bitchute.com/video/Jeo9JqycGmFr/

No, it has to do with who reports it, and who believes it.  If mostly westerners believe it, and it's reported by mostly media companies that don't have to worry about going to prison for reporting the news, that's really all the information you need to decide to act like it's not true.

No different than your Global Cooling argument.

Ignorant level 10.

'Putin' has nothing to do with it.  It's just an observation of the force structure and tactics applied.  Would apply to any conflict without regard to who is 'right' or whatever.  You are going to remain in a state of ignorance until you learn to separate hard cold analysis from whatever fantasy-land you want to live in.  If ever.  Most people remain ignorant and incompetent for life...which is actually pretty handy for people like me at times.