Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 247. (Read 73667 times)

1) it wasn't a GMLRS rocket;
2) it was a thermobaric weapon;
3) russia staged it and did so (as usual) incompetently.
Firstly: keeping POWs so close to the front violates Article 19 of the Third Geneva Convention making it a war crime.
Secondly: Olenivka is about 15 km from the frontline. Striking a target so close to the front with sparse and expensive long-range GMLRS rockets, when one could use 105 mm artillery rounds that cost around 0.4% of a GMLRS rocket makes no sense.
Thirdly: Olenivka has been a well known DNR POW and concentration camp for years (and a penal colony for decades). So much so that the wives of the POWs knew about it. One needs to be a delusional russian troll or propagandist to believe Ukraine would strike this target.

In short: russia staged it. russia never wanted to return the Azovstal defenders to Ukraine, where they would receive a hero's welcome. Executing them would result in war crime charges and endanger russian POWs in Ukrainian hands.
At the same time HIMARS gave Ukrainians hope, so russia decided to stage the murder of the POWs as if a GMLRS rocket had killed them to dampen the Ukrainians' joy at HIMARS.
The russians did the same with CAESAR: shell Donetsk city, then blame it on CAESAR by presenting russian artillery fired 152 mm shell fragments.
But, like in Donetsk, the russians stages the "rocket attack" incompetently, because none of them knows how a GMLRS works.

This is the building that was hit in Olenivka. It's made from concrete bricks with a thin tin roof... and it still stands (!!).



Thanks to russia I can show you what a GMLRS missile does when it hits a building: walls blown out, concrete ceilings shattered, rebars ripped apart, everything smashed and thrown around, and no fire damage (!).

 
 

If we compare a real GMLRS impact to the staged one in Olenivka - there the explosion was so weak the beds didn't even move an inch, not a single brick was blown out, the steel pillar is undamaged, but there is massive fire damage.

BUT

 

But the ultimate proof that this was not a GMLRS rocket is the lack of an impact crater. This photo shows a GMLRS impact crater. At Olenivka - none.

GMLRS M31 rockets hit a target at a 90 degree angle with Mach 4+ to smash through roofs and detonate inside (and also to smash the secret guidance system, GPS components, and sensors at the tip of the missile). The tin roof of the building in Olenivka is too weak to smash in and trigger a GMLRS rocket, therefore there would have to be an impact/detonation crater in the middle of the room, if a GMLRS rocket had struck. There isn't.



Also M31 GMLRS rockets contain 51 lb of PBX-109, a mix of 64% RDX and 20% Aluminium and 16% HTPB/IPDI plastic fillers. The Aluminium is used to increase blast effects, but it is not a thermobaric weapon that burns a target out.
If a GMLRS rocket had struck Olenivka there wouldn't be any burned bodies inside... the blast would have ripped everyone apart, not burned them alive.
A thermobaric weapon burns victims, while leaving bodies intact.
Olenivka was NOT hit by a GMLRS rocket.
russia used thermobaric a weapon to burn the POWs in their sleep. The fire damage to building and victims, and the missing impact crater and the lack of blast damage proves this.
This was premeditated murder, just like at Katyn.

I was asked what my theory of events is: likely the russians locked the doors, fired RPO-A Shmel or MRO-A thermobaric munitions inside through the windows, then waited until everyone was dead.

Both of these weapons have been in the arsenal of the DNR since 2014 (left pic).

 

Right, your position is represented under "Because that's just what orcs do"

Which civilized World? This one or this one or perhaps this one etc etc etc ...

It's even more ridiculous to say it was accidental attack.
The captured Azovites are still highly valued for exchange, because at large in Ukraine they are apparently still considered the elite and there are many more of their fighters and supporters at large who are pressing the Zelensky government to exchange them in the very first place.
For the Zelensky government, for which victories on the information front are much more important than real ones, it would be better if the Azov people did not surrender, but died the death of the brave as martyrs. Therefore, on the one hand, Kyiv exchanges part of the soldiers, and on the other hand, instead of Russia, it may well seek to complete its plan to glorify the prisoners from Azovstal by completely destroying it. Moreover, as mentioned above, such attacks may be designed not only to intimidate witnesses, but to reduce the desire of Ukrainian soldiers to surrender into Russian captivity.

...

Let me be clear, even considering that you, as a biased user, wont accept this.
You can talk about logic and motives when it comes to any other country except Russia. They are capable of any crazy stuff because they can and they get away with it. If in 2008 the civilized World gave a tough rebuff in response to the invasion of Georgia, you didn't even know what Crimea is.

Now here, the pro-Kremlin telegram channel with a huge number of subscribers reflects in early June what MI6 would do with British-supplied MLRS in Ukraine. It's sick already but quite fine for russians. So one of their targets as per this channel should be Olenivka. Since you're an expert in russia I hope you know that the translation from "they may" to russian is "we will". Why? No one knows, because they can.



NOw lemme ask how you end up spreading your bullshit here for literally 8 people? Your no good at least for Reddit or Alexa stats with impressive digits of this forum is enough to master russian budgets?

Russia is blocking an Egypt-bound ship loaded with Ukrainian wheat that was purchased by Egypt.  Track the “EMMAKRIS III” ship in real-time here:
https://marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/shipid:689679/zoom:14  🇪🇬 🌾 🇺🇦

#StopRussia

Ukrainian authorities have detained a ship at one of the ports where grain shipments are expected to resume through the Black Sea this week – asserting the vessel is owned by a Russian company. The ship is a bulk carrier, the Emmakris III
...
Emmakris III had been loaded with some 60,000 tonnes of grain already bought by the Egyptian government.

Of course, they're projecting their own crimes on Ukrainians. Just like with attacks on civilian objects, looting, etc. It's easier to "report" it when you don't have to make it up, just blame it on the other side.


This one was actually quite successful as a propaganda move. I see Western media (AP etc) peddle this now, some reports like "Russia claims Ukrainians attacked prison" and some without the "Russia claims" part. Kremlin will do everything they can to create the impression that HIMARS is used "improperly", they're really afraid of it and perhaps hoping that US will slow delivery because of this propaganda.

In Russia, the property of Ukrainian propagandists, such as Dmitry Gordon and Evgeny Kiselev, is not seized, and the property of Navalny's FBK employees is not touched, at least for now.

Evgeny Roizman, the Russian ex-Mayor of Yekaterinburg, who is constantly branding the Russian army on social networks, is not being jailed.

Read the latest news. Russian troops took Kherson, Melitopol, Lisichansk, Severodonetsk, the entire Luhansk region, a significant part of the Donetsk region, as well as part of the Zaporozhye and Kharkov regions.

Why is this comparison between Putin and Hitler, have you re-read the Ukrainian propaganda again? So know that Russia is a multicultural country, which, unlike Ukraine, does not prohibit second languages ​​in national areas. You're looking in the wrong direction.

Propaganda coming from the fascist Kremlin regime is hardly "facts".

Except Hitler was a bit more successful at it than Putin, he was able to take Warsaw in a month... Putin managed only to destroy Mariupol in a month. The end will hopefully be the same, suicide in a bunker.

It looks like the video with the castration of the prisoner turned out to be a Ukrainian fake. The video contains: a tactical polo shirt of the Ukrainian company M-TAC, a balaclava of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, a Ukrainian pixel uniform (all of the above is on the regular list of equipment for SBU and GUR employees). Cherry on the cake - blue nitrile gloves from the first aid kit of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and rare Nike sneakers released for the Ukrainian team in 2008.

source

So... that's a good thing actually. A very small minority introduced a law that didn't pass. Are you even aware how democracy works? A hint: it's a bit different from Soviet/Putin style single-party "sieg heil" type of system.

It's even more ridiculous to say it was accidental attack.
The captured Azovites are still highly valued for exchange, because at large in Ukraine they are apparently still considered the elite and there are many more of their fighters and supporters at large who are pressing the Zelensky government to exchange them in the very first place.
For the Zelensky government, for which victories on the information front are much more important than real ones, it would be better if the Azov people did not surrender, but died the death of the brave as martyrs. Therefore, on the one hand, Kyiv exchanges part of the soldiers, and on the other hand, instead of Russia, it may well seek to complete its plan to glorify the prisoners from Azovstal by completely destroying it. Moreover, as mentioned above, such attacks may be designed not only to intimidate witnesses, but to reduce the desire of Ukrainian soldiers to surrender into Russian captivity.
...

But you, apparently because of your stubbornness, are still trying not to notice the obvious facts that Ukraine is infected with Nazism.

To justify the action, Nazi propagandists accused Poland of persecuting ethnic Germans living in Poland. They also falsely claimed that Poland was planning, with its allies Great Britain and France, to encircle and dismember Germany. The SS, in collusion with the German military, staged a phony attack on a German radio station. The Germans falsely accused the Poles of this attack. Hitler then used the action to launch a “retaliatory” campaign against Poland.

So... that's a good thing actually. A very small minority introduced a law that didn't pass. Are you even aware how democracy works? A hint: it's a bit different from Soviet/Putin style single-party "sieg heil" type of system.

[...] You can talk about logic and motives when it comes to any other country except Russia. They are capable of any crazy stuff because they can and they get away with it. If in 2008 the civilized World gave a tough rebuff in response to the invasion of Georgia, you didn't even know what Crimea is.

The project card indicates that the initiators of this bill № 7351 were 9 Ukrainian deputies: Bezuglaya, Aliksychuk, Bakumov, Grivko, Tretyakova, Voitsekhovsky, Mysyagin, Mazurashu, Fedienko. The bill was withdrawn without a voting, because, according to deputy Bakumov, it caused "an inadequate public outcry".

Considering the value of Azov being alive to UA and RU sides, both claims sound ridiculous to the point of being laughable. So most likely this was an accidental attack. As these things go, like with MH17, one side will try to do everything to investigate and drum up as much attention as possible, and the other side has no option but to just blatantly deny everything and try to make it go away ASAP.

... Happy you can keep you sense of humour despite "one of the best armies" being proven to be a fossil from the last century, unable to mount anything but localised, slow pace offensives.
I would certainly would not consider Kherson "liberated" if I were you.

Anyone who 100% believes either side has an agenda...its war, and lies and propaganda are used on both sides.
Once its over, winner will decide who was liar and who was telling the truth

My god are we playing bingo? I think I won and we don't even have to wait for a Croatian to show up.

Judging by how the Ukrainians have been thoroughly brainwashed for 30 years, that now they point-blank do not see how they are used in a fratricidal massacre to the applause of the Anglo-Saxons, they see nothing wrong with the glorification of Bandera, they approve of the complete de-Russification of Ukraine and membership in the aggressive NATO military bloc that destroyed Yugoslavia; and after the anti-constitutional coup, the Ukrainians elected the clown Zelensky as president, who had not an ounce of political weight and experience, - then it is time to treat the head of the Ukrainian nation.

But our main kremlin bot, Veleor, think that russian side is ofc "more reasoned"

Veleor tries to tell us, that "three deputies" is equal to "ukrainian government"
But 3 deputies is just about 1 % of Verkhovna Rada
In russian population there about 1.5 % of mentaly ill people. So, following to Veleor, all russian are mentally ill.

if russian soldiers forbidden to have a mobile phone, when how they filmed cutting off testicles to ukrainian soldier? This is rhetorical question, tho

There a lot of cases Azov warriors were killed by russian soldiers. Because of AZOV is the main scarecrow to russian propaganda, I doubt that russians would not kill some of them for the need.

Ukrainians are following to NATO Doctrine, which states, that soldier can say anything in captivity, just to save his life.

I'm just full of his (Veleor) bs and manipulations. It looks like he is really get paid for his nonsense here.  Btw, in russian section everything is the same, here is a good quote about Veleor's manner to write (not so obvious, we can't know for sure, we can't know all truth, truth is between and so on) [...]
We will never know the truth  

Wait a second, how is it even negotiable? It must be taken by default.