Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 32. (Read 69425 times)

If it were for the "news" you'd think that the whole of Europe is poor and living in misery. It is a common piece in UK news, French papers, Italian, Spanish...

But let's analyse UK: 4 million of "destitute people", of a total population of 66 million. That is a poverty index of 6%. Shall we now talk about the 20 million below the poverty line in Ruzzia? Thats is nearly 12%  - and that is if you'd like to believe the official figures and not counting the "satellite countries", which fare terribly worse.

BTW, people in the UK and Western Europe in general do not get "destitute", there is a social network of support, particularly if they have children. There is very little unemployment in most of Western Europe (except perhaps the south). People living in the street usually suffer some type of mental disorder.

War has huge impact, but not on a country you'd expect...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEWCtIKsEgw

UK is one of major investors in this war, and 4 million destitute people
can confirm that

It is the same with Europe. Look it was Putin who decided to annex Crimea, not to mention have a "puppet" in Bealoruzzia". It would seem to me that the guarantees would need to go from East to West. There is no possibility of an agreement if  any previous international border is not respected and the treaties are not worth the paper these are written it.

In my view, Ukraine should decide about Ukraine. It is no wonder they are looking West. BTW I think that Ukraine can get guarantees just as the rest of countries that border with Ruzzia and are now NATO.

In principle, I do understand Ruzzia spending in "security", I just think is not working as intended. There is less security for Ruzzia and endless expenses. One has to know when doubling will bankrupt. Again, you need a Plan B.


Are you sure?

EU<>USA


That probably means someone else pays the bills


Except we're now in 1943, not 1941, if you want to draw parallels


"Its bleeding people" is just your dream
"can only trade at a discount" same as above
"is burning all the diplomatic relations for the future."  actually they lost relations with West which were obviously not sincere anyway, and gaining respect in rest of the world

Glad we understand each other. This conflict will end when Russia receives sufficiently convincing security guarantees from the collective West and in return can provide sufficiently convincing security guarantees for Ukraine. Until then, Russia will continue to expand its zone of active influence by all available means.

Putin takes very seriously the regular statements of Western politicians about the need to inflict a “strategic defeat” on Russia. Perhaps for Western politicians these are “just words” aimed at gaining political points in domestic political games, but I would advise them to stop this practice and start thinking about what they can offer Putin as convincing security guarantees.

And Ukraine can already stop running around the world, signing meaningless security guarantees, because Ukraine can only receive the only weighty and significant security guarantee from Russia. Simply for geographical reasons.

Zelensky giving up:


Zelensky Challenges Trump: 'Tell Us Today How To Finish The War' - https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/zelensky-challenges-trump-tell-us-today-how-finish-war.

I do understand, yes, I would spend as much money as required for survival, I just do not think that Ruzzia has been under a military threat. Firstly, because they have nukes and ICBMs - who would want to attack Ruzzia??

Second, Ukraine and Europe had to accept the invasion of Crimea and sit still. Why did not Putin simply stopped there? I think that the reason was not related to security, but rather to thinking that taking Ukraine was easy and would provide plenty of distance to NATO. That did not happen. Why the stupidity of putting in the constitution that Ruzzia would simply have four more regions when he did not even control two of these in full??

I am afraid that Putin has not plan B other than doubling the bet, and it is time for a plan B for him, for Europe and for Ukraine.

For Russia this is a security issue. How much is your personal safety worth if you find out that someone wants to kill you? How to determine the right price, not overpay and ultimately stay alive? Is it enough to start wearing body armor or should you hire a bodyguard? How much does your ill-wisher want to kill you and is it important for him to stay alive and escape justice? How happy will you be that you saved on your safety if an ill-wisher achieves his goal?

Exactly. The human cost will have an economic cost too down the line. When the war is over how many men of fit working age will be there to do the work? Not enough. prices will go up. inflation will go through roof. there will be oversupply of war materials and undersupply of everyday regular materials. they will have to allow immigration to make up the shortfall, that will cause social divisions. Putin has put Russia on the path to obsolescence. He used to be evil but smart. now he's just evil

Frozen conflict. dmz. NK & SK

What do you think the end will be like?

It is a graph to 2023 BA.. what year do you think you live in?

BA, when someone starves you, your neighbours, your family, you cities by the millions, you do not forget.

The US is ok with Ruzzia in the modern market - just as long as they do not go rampage in Europe, then they are a threat.

RE Siberia, I agree, it is a valuable asset, but it is irrelevant to how good of a business is invading Ukraine.

But the US and Nato keep fighting for this useless land. Russia is only fighting to protect her borders.


Siberia alone gives Russia untold value.



You talk what is almost ancient history. Russia wants to enter the modern world of trade. But the US won't let her... maybe (BRICS).

No, it is actually simple exercise. How much would a reasonable price for a km2 of agricultural land in Ukraine, full of unexploded ordinance BTW or for a town pretty much razed to the ground, again, full of unexploded ordinance and no population left?

Would you pay, let's say, 1 million? 2 million? 10 million? What would be your estimate? I am going to give you a clue: Farmland in the US is around 1000 usd for 1 km2 and it has no unexploded ordnance and there is rule of law and people around to work it.

Let's say you have lost 1 tank for each of those 1 km2 in Ukraine (the reality is far far worse). You have paid roughly between 5000 & 1000 times the value of that piece of land. Not an excellent business.

Not only that, you are using all your economy to go to war - that is you are into a terrible business running into it with all your possessions and all the income you can muster. do you think the US does not understand this?

A completely different thing is how much that land is worth for Putin's ego. History is full of bankruptcies driven by inflated egos.



Russia is certainly not the fourth economy in the world - more like the 8th, comparable to France.

As said, if you burn through your inherited assets and use it to produce bombs the gdp looks very good, but you are not creating wealth, you are using up your existing storages of value. It can keep going for a while, again, I think the US is perfectly ok with Ruzzia using up the thousands of soviet tanks left there.

Let me put it in a simple way:

1 - Ruzzia sells oil, to a discount over market price.
2 - Ruzzia produces war stuff. Some of the components have to loophole sanctions (to an expense of course).
3 - Ruzzia puts that together with people from poor regions, gets it all destroyed in exchange for dead Ukrainian people and ownership of some territory. This is done at a cost of 1000 times the value of the land (not to mention the soldiers killed).

gdp of course looks great - all the revenues that normally go to the accounts of the elite are now used in paying salaries. What is the problem with this? You are not only not building wealth or assets for the future, you are actually burning through the inventory you had. If you tell me if I want to buy in such "company" I would say no thanks.

But as said, who I am to put a price on Putin's ego? There are people out there that will decide if they are ok to pay it.


Perhaps they are very wary of their "brothers" from Moscow and have decided to create their own "tribe"... you know, bad experience during the "hunger games"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Or maybe they have been speaking with the neighbours, you know, comparing car sizes?

Here is another interesting link from the World Bank with updated data for 2023 with GDP indicators at purchasing power parity. Russia is the fourth largest economy in the world. Isolated and twice torn to shreds by Biden. Your unfounded propaganda slogans are easily refuted by objective financial indicators.

Russian Government’s Oil Revenue Was Up Almost 50% in June. Or here's the latest news from Bloomberg, there's something about an oil price ceiling.

That is a really interesting link even if worldbank is questionable.  Note how Ukraine, even with it's enviable resources, was always in the red until AFTER the special military operation when the U.S. corp/gov players in particular started massive money laundering through them.  They seem to have 'gone green' about the time when power for most of the pleb classes became an iffy thing due to Russian 'calibrations.'

It's interesting that in the dot-com bubble years Ukraine was in the Niger/Chad range in terms of 'income level'.  Around that time I had a Ukrainian giantess with several college degrees cleaning my house from time to time.  (Never fucked her, BTW, though it probably would have been an interesting experience.)

Also, if my memory serves, it was around this time that Putin took over Russia and put the Chicago School boys out of business in their loot-the-former-Soviet-Union games.  At least in Russia.  That explains fairly well the 'Putin-is-Hitler' shtick that they won't stop pushing no matter how absurd.  Seems like they made up for their losses by doubling down on the exploitation of Ukraine.

I cannot figure out why the native Slavs of Ukraine cannot see how they are being used/abused (and now genocided) in disproportionate degree by a (((particular tribe))) and resist a little bit.  I have to entertain the suggestion from members of said tribe that the natives are simply pretty stupid and manipulable but I don't have to agree that God (or G-d or whatever) put them...and me...on this earth for the sole purpose of serving (((them))).  I would have to agree with the Christians that 'the Lord works in strange ways' sometimes.

They are burning through the furniture. Yes, your gdp grows in nominal terms, but a bomb does not generate wealth and eventually all comes to an end when the debt is excessive and there is no more furniture to burn.

Economy of Nazi Germany

Ruzzia will not collapse financially because the economy is biased towards commodities and raw materials exports, but saying it is growing is just funny. It is bleeding people, can only trade at a discount and is burning all the diplomatic relations for the future. I would not like to be there over the next 10 years.

Russia already has contracts out backed by their frozen assets. This keeps the assets from being sold or given away due to the US Constitution Contract Clause.

Your question already contains the answer. The massive outflow of the population from Ukraine allowed it to rise to a place in the World Bank's ranking table based on a metric that is calculated per capita.

The Russian special operation in Ukraine is already in its third year, and if we count from the beginning of the ATO in Donbas, then the conflict has been going on since 2014. Analogies with 1941 are hardly appropriate here. We recently found out with paxmao that the West does not want Russia’s defeat, because the defeat of a nuclear state is fraught with destabilization of the already tense situation in the world. And at the same time, victory over Russia is a condition for Ukraine’s entry into NATO. Here's a perdimonocle.


Russia is closely monitoring the fate of its frozen assets, as well as the income from their use. Together with Russia, the countries of the Arab world and China are no less closely monitoring the fate of frozen Russian money. You can't be distracted from the fascinating spectacle, economic suicide can only be committed once.

I've seen a video of wounded Russian soldiers who are being held in a pigsty. They complain that many of them are wounded but aren't allowed to go home because they signed 2 year contracts and the military doesn't know what to do with them. They don't want to get rid of cannon fodder and also don't want to show them to the public because most of them lost limbs or have shrapnel wounds. It's hart do be a man in Russia these days


In 1941 during Operation Barbarossa German forces captured many Soviet cities including Minsk, Smolensk and Kiev. The Soviets captured nothing.