Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 326. (Read 73862 times)

The current general in charge of this 2nd offensive has a very bad reputation for his brutality. He will not think twice to level the ground with the barrage of artillery shells if necessary. After all, it looks like the attack on the key was just a diversionary and the main focus was always on eastern Ukraine. Aerial attack has also increased from the Russian armed force and it seems Russians are launching more coordinated attack than before.

First of all, I do understand that there are fighting elements in Ukrainian army that have their own agenda and ideologies. Needless to say I do not agree with their ideology, while I do understand that they are fighting because they do not want to be ruled by a foreign power with a despot as president. These, in my mind are two different things that need to be dealt with separately.

Now, in your view, can a full state be a terrorist institution? Please, for a moment, do not think of Putin's Russia, but rather... North Korea for example.
If so, what would be the acts of such a government?

- Threatening pacific and non-nuclearized neighbours with nuclear weapons?
- Having an army that is disproportionate to their GDP to impose their rules?
- Killing dissidents by, let's say, poisoning them?
- Killing civilians cold blood?
- Having the same leader for decades with no chance to renew or alternate?
- Having laws preventing free press?

Would any of those be a sign of an institutionalisation of terror?

I couldn't understand some of what they guy was saying, and my Pavlovian response from the first second of footage was that it was more professionally designed than one would expect from a spontaneous quicky vid.  But it certainly could be.  Anyway...

Asking if Azov in Mariupol committed war crimes is absurd to me, but not fully though because there is an element of personal ethics which can vary from person to person, philosophical framework to philosophical framework, etc.  Although not religious, I grew up in a Christian country with 'Christian ethics' so the use of human shields is about as bad as it gets irrespective of what one law or convention may or may not say.  Were I of the 'means justify the ends' philosophy, I might be of a different opinion generally although I think that most things construed as 'Nazi ideology' have pretty bad 'ends' as well.

There seems to be a religious ideology which may be more common than most people think.  It is to actively make the world so filled with such vile behavior that God(s) will be compelled come back to straighten things out.  I suspect that it appeals to people who have a propensity for degeneracy of one form or another anyway.  Like Nazis, Bolsheviks, Maoist, some groups of doctors and scientists, etc.  This seems to be the attitude promoted by many Kabbalists (especially the ethnic supremacist ones), and at least tolerated by garden variety Luciferians.  It seems to me the best match for what we see going on in Ukraine these days, and yes, driven mostly by the Ukrainian (sponsor's) side.

Yes, I certainly consider the Azov guys to be 'just a gang of terrorists' from all that I can see when I try to be objective, but the people who built and control them (at least partially) are even worse.  Unfortunately that is in large part my own government since I still hold a U.S. passport and pay taxes through that entity.

I am against this war, you are in favour of it and constantly trying to justify it. I think you need to stop sending others to die in Putin's name and in your own. If you think this aggression is justified go to the front and learn a bit about the reality of war coward. be a Russian Hero.

If not, I have just the right uniform for you, it comes in yellow.




In case you do not know Latin: "Bella gerant alli" -> " 'Let others wage war.'


Oh, and I forgot homophobia and the "Gayrope" thing. The classics signs of the far right: xenophobia, homophobia, disrespect for artists and intellectuals,... It is obviously Nazism coming from Putin's Russia. Seriously, there must be someone better fitted to rule that large country of yours.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you want me to do. Russia is conducting this operation with a peacetime army, without general mobilization, and even rotates, as I have already mentioned a little higher.

Why are you yourself with a keyboard, and not with an AK-47 in defense of Ukraine? A deserter?  

Nazism is not orange juice. If the West is ready to quarrel with Russia over a gang of terrorists in the center of Europe, this is more of a problem for the West. Russia does not cultivate hatred towards other nationalities, I think now several million citizens of Ukraine live and work in Russia. And I did not notice that they somehow actively protested against the operation in Ukraine, arranging protest rallies in Russian cities or something like that.

I'm not saying that being an actor is bad, I'm saying that it's bad to be an incompetent politician in the role of president. Look at the situation Zelensky brought Ukraine to, although he came to power on promises to end the war in the Donbass, and all that was necessary was to fulfill the Minsk agreements. It seems I have already said that Putin's first offer is the best for partners, then the conditions of his offers only get worse. It seems that now we are talking about large territorial concessions, including, possibly, access to the sea.

Putin is using the young soldiers of Russia, sending them to die with the only intention of further stealing the resources and freedom of others. I encourage you to leave the keyboard and take part in the fight, you can see for yourself all the "greatness" of your country at the moment.

Russia could as well condemn officially orange juice and still drink it everyday. While Putin's Russia "condemns" Nazis is actually acting as such and generating hate against Wester Europe, the US and many of the minorities living on Russia while threatening the world with a nuclear attack. Facts are facts and words are wind.

You seem to be saying that being an actor is something bad? Must I remind you that Ronal Reagan (president of US) and Arnold Swatz... (whatever) gov. of California where both actors? You may not be aware, but actually being a leader is a role that requires communicating and inspiring. I know that in Russia you cannot choose you own leader, please do not take it on those who can.

The test to see if there is a Kremlin troll: The do not say war.


Putin has sent another 15 Tactical Cannon Fodder Battalions, that is around 5000 more widows and mothers without sons to deal with in a short while at home. Do not die for Putin.

Meanwhile, it looks like the battle for Donbass has begun with increased activity on all fronts.

It was the same in Iraq, so his comparison is still valid

I'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories, maybe some of them are not groundless.

In your opinion, today's appeal of the commander of Azov about the presence of civilians near Azovstal is a confession to a war crime - given the humanitarian corridor opened by Russia yesterday and the ceasefire regime? If the civilians did not come out yesterday, then Azov is holding them hostage like a human shield? Doesn't that make the Nazis of Azov just a gang of terrorists?

Maybe they are ADL certified Kosher Nazis because they don't cause problems for Jews or Israelis.  Like the ones fighting under Zelensky('s handlers) now.

In seeking a hypothesis with the most explanatory power, the one which best explains Russia's attitude in my mind is that Jewish people/interests ran a whole cycle of Communism from the start-up under the Bolsheviks through the collapse and pay-out to the Oligarchs, and that effective control continues to this day.  Seems to me that from start until now Jews in Russia are afforded 'special' protections at the very least.  Maybe they need it for whatever set of reasons, or maybe it's just handy to have and generations of enforcement (involving terrorism) have it pretty ingrained in the society at large.

Also, perhaps, there is a somewhat obscured relationship between Judaism and 'the Nazis' which is not appropriate to say much about.  Certain of the Monty Python guys were pretty politically savvy and in The Life of Brian at least they made a lot of fun of what are today pretty highly protected classes in some societies (trannys, homosexuals, cripples, Communists, etc.)  Here's an interesting clip which was censored out before it could be approved for viewing in America:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of4tBSreW84

At the end of the day, 'Nazis' of one stripe or another and at one time or another have been responsible for a lot of things that Jews, and particularly Zionist Jews, have found desirable for their goals.  Instrumental one might say, and I doubt that the phenomenon was or would have been unknown or unpredicted at the upper echelons of leadership and planning.

This is a weak argument - a reference to a month old newspaper article when you ignore the latest statement at the chemical defense briefing, with serious allegations, documented evidence and confirmed facts.  Here are the slides from this briefing.

Good question. I think the logic "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" works here. At present, the status of Donbass in the eyes of Russia is the independent people's republics of the DPR and LPR, with which, at their request and on their initiative, treaties of friendship and mutual military support have been signed. Until February 21, 2022, this was an internal affair of Ukraine, in fact a civil war and genocide of the Russian-speaking population of Donbass, who were forbidden to speak their native language, and when they did not agree with this, they began to shoot, kill and did it for 8 years right in the center of Europe. And the Grad attacks on Donetsk on February 22 were already the aggression of the Armed Forces of Ukraine against an ally of Russia, to which Russia reacted with its own special operation, which we are now discussing here.

Russia is a multinational country and condemns Nazism, at the official level it is a policy of zero tolerance. Far-right nationalist groups in Russia are extremist and operate outside the law, this is working for the special services. It seems that the FSB already had questions to the head of the LPR about his public statements, I hope this will soften the intensity of the rhetoric. The community of Russian people is supranational.

If you listen to Arestovich a lot, then Ukraine is doing much better now than a couple of months ago. Buried alive in the Azovstal bunker is also a victory for Ukraine, of course.

That is, it doesn’t bother you that the president of Ukraine is a drug addict and an actor from the series about the president, doing some kind of game and all that?

After this war is over, Ukrainians need to send death squads to kill these "Russian heroes", especially those who participated in terrorist activities in Bucha, Mariupol, etc. These motherfuckers need to pay.

According to the Kremlin Trolls here, anything that gets hit by Putin's weaponry. For example, a maternity hospital is hit = it was full of Nazis. Civilians on a mass grave? nope, Nazis. Troops defending their country, nope, Nazis.

It is just a excuse, not a real reason for the war whatsoever. Putin could not care less about the ideology of his victims.


As said, whatever their reasons, they are the troops that are less likely to give in.

Sure, we all know that Putin would not be attacking Mariupol if it were defended by someone else, right??. As far as I am concerned, the "nazi" argument is irrelevant for this war but if you want to open that box, let's go:

- Hitler reached power being voted and then used the estate power to kill and ban his political enemies.
- Hitler assumed Arian supremacy as a principle.
- Hitler impeded free speech and incarcerated anyone who spoke against.
- Hitler looked for an enemy to blame for Germany's problems (Jews).
- Hitler used the army to invade his neighbours, mostly pacific ones.
- Hitler tried to impose his despotic model on the conquered, using dummies (e.g. French gov in Vichy).
- Hitler threated democracies and ended up in conflict with France, US, UK.

Now, change Hitler for Putin, Arian for Russian, Germany for Russia, Vichy for Belorussia and, curiously, Jews for Nazis and you will see who is actually the Nazi here.


The ship was effectively assembled in Ukraine yes - I can put a SIM card in a cell phone (in most anyway), but I do not know the details of any of them and, after a couple of Google updates (in this case, RF updates), I am certainly completely unaware of what may be happening inside.

There are three systems of defence, four against planes. These include the one you mention that is ineffective for low altitude (50 feet) flying missiles, however the second set of missiles and the Gatling guns were also voided.

It is anything but easy to sink a Cruise the way it has happened. The way the defences were penetrated requires an in depth knowledge of their behaviour, knowledge of the precise location, knowledge of the best moment to attack and how. As said, I have no proof, but I do not think I am putting forward a conspiracy theory, just saying that Ukraine is getting a level of intel and support that goes beyond passing all the info from the AWACS that are flying continuously in all OTAN borders.

I guess that the new Russian habitat for coralline species recently created is the only "proof" I can offer, but certainly a high level of intel coming from the US on this precise strike seems very likely.


I have not justified the use of human shields. I have not seen evidence of human shields being used. I have seem evidence of Putin's army shelling heavily populated areas. Perhaps the chances of civils being there would be less if more could be safely evacuated - for avoidance of doubt, that does not mean being deported evacuated to Russia.

Putin's troops that are being used in Mariupol are the ones not being used somewhere else. They are not "pinned" if you would rather have it worded differently, but they certainly cannot leave.

Zelensky said publicly weeks ago that they could not help the troops in Mariupol - it does not get any clearer than that.

On regards to financing, your statement looks like a poker player accusing other's of cheating better than himself.




Totally biased. I do not think there are proofs of widespread genocide, but attacks on civilians, summary executions and mass graves are clear and documented. Only the Russian Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales denies it at this point.



I see, again the usual sources. Seriously, how do you pretend to question information by using as source from Putin's military chief psycho? Has the Dark Humour Department being preparing your answers again?


Again, you base your answer in the "poster not knowing enough" and citing sources from the Russian Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales - Pigeon surveillance section.

All there is here is a poorly elaborated lie aiming to link Ukraine with bioweapons. It is so incredible that I can only thank you again for helping the Ukrainian cause.


This is probably the only thing I could believe. I mean, the bit on Ukraine shelling the Donbas, not that Putin's psychos did not do it as well or the fact that the bombs were somehow language selective.

I could even believe Kirby except for a little detail - he says he does not understand "why Russia would deny it". I can certainly figure out why.

Anyway, there are some pictures out today. I will wait for analysts to put forward opinions and see if they are validated.



Oh... I suggest to the Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales a response to that in the lines of "these are Russian Patriots fighting Nazis around the world" they are "Russperheroes" but witht the underwear inside the pants.



This guy should go to Ukraine himself instead of sending the young Russians to die. He's got the pants, why is he waiting to put on the shirt as well?

So, ok, Arestovich said this stuff about Zelensky few years ago. There was lot of things said about him before and after elections from public person in Ukraine. But does all these things matters now after few years?

What a classic . Zelensky addicted to drugs or alcochol. Putin already called Kiev as gang of drug addicts, nothing surprising that you use this nareative.

I'm just going to pick one and cherry pick your already picked cherries:


Literally every UN update on death count explicitly says the numbers they are providing are only confirmed deaths, and they expect the actual number to be much higher.  They aren't even counting the major cities that have basically been destroyed over the past 2 months.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/04/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-11-april-2022

I'm trying to think of a way that your argument isn't being made in bad faith, and I can't.  You obviously have access to the internet and UN reports.  You obviously know the war is still going on, making it impossible to know the actual number of dead civilians.  And you don't seem like a retard that doesn't understand the difference between 'confirmed deaths' and the actual number of deaths.  

Moving the goalposts. My statement was that Russian propaganda is blatantly lying (as opposed to "exaggerating") and this is one example of such.


Ok, I'll give you translation of "пpaктичecки" as "almost", even though it's typical propaganda nonsense.


Whataboutism. Should I post that RT video now about "children with white skin"?


Straw man - I'm not talking about the definition of genocide. I'm talking about civilians being killed by Russian soldiers in occupied territories. Lots of proof of that, which Russian propaganda labelled as fake, up to and including drone videos and satellite photos, we've been through that. You can keep claiming it's fake but to any reasonable person it's reasonable evidence of killing civilians.

Looting has also been widely documented, including Russian soldiers shipping the "goods" home from Belarus.


Straw man. Also when everything is counted, Ukrainian civilian deaths are likely to be higher than that (20 thousand estimated dead in Mariupol alone), as if that somehow makes Russian propaganda more truthful  


A twofer - burden of proof / tu quoque. The Russian side presented a load of bullshit to put it mildly. There are plenty of fact checks on that, such as:

https://www.bbc.com/news/60711705


Mariupol.


That was on the 14th. Now it's confirmed: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3269904-pentagon-backs-ukraines-claim-it-hit-russian-warship-with-two-missiles/


You're going too far out of your way trying to justify for Russian propaganda lies. To me this seems more like an attempt to muddy the water than an attempt "to understand".

What is the definition of a Nazi as used in the postings in this thread?

I admit to only 'lightly' know a Hitler type Nazi, but surely that has changed in 80 years?

(although the portable crematoriums used in Ukraine by the Russians gives me pause to think)

I have a very bad news for you but Putin has officially hired Nazis to fight for him long ago.


A very famous Nazi group of Russia's Troops are German Nazi entrepreneurs participating in Putins wars again and again. It's Wagner group and was involved already in Syria to keep Despot Assad in power and Putin hired Wagner's troops. Wagner's Nazi troops are officially emplayed by Russian govt.
CEO of Wagner group is currently Dmitriy Utkin, a Russian Nazi: https://www.italy24news.com/world/391586.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

You can look at Google pictures, Dmitriy Utkin, a russian Nazi, is glorifying german Nazi symbolism and ideology.


Yes, Nazis are officially hired by Putin's govt. 

suchmoon, I numbered the paragraphs in your message for detailed analysis and easier commenting.

1. "Just military training, definitely not invasion"
The Russian leadership deceived everyone in early February 2022 that they were just conducting military training and were not going to attack. But what does this lie have to do with the topic of the achievements of the Russian army in Ukraine? Most likely, the plan and the exact date of the invasion were known to a limited circle of people in the Kremlin. This lie partially explains why the statements of the Russian high command are not trusted. However, this doesn't mean that the statements of all Russian officials are now a priori false. Of course, they need additional verification, but it is also impossible to completely discard them as unreliable.

2. "Entire Ukrainian air force and AA defense was allegedly destroyed but continues to function two months later".
Please indicate your source, according to which the Russian military said about the "entire destruction" of Ukrainian air force.
As far as I know, the Russian General Staff didn't report such a thing. It is necessary to take into account every word in official statements in order to avoid false interpretations.
On March 25, 2022, Colonel General Sergei Rudskoy told reporters: "At present, the Ukrainian air force and air defense system have been almost completely destroyed. The country's naval forces have ceased to exist".
Further in the same article, the number of destroyed and remaining Ukrainian military equipment is given:

For those who doubt that the Russian army now has an advantage in the air, I recommend to read the article in the Insider magazine dated April 16, 2022.
"Ukrainian pilots launch 'Buy Me A Jet' campaign to help defeat Russia's massive air superiority"
By the way, a video was posted in this article, and attentive users noticed that at 01:15 a Ukrainian pilot wears a Black Sun chevron, which refers to Nazi symbols.



3. "Russian soldiers came to "liberate" but instead killed civilians and looted homes".
Nothing can justify violence, and civilians suffer in every war, but there should be strong grounds for saying that Russian troops are purposefully killing Ukrainian civilians, literally engaging in genocide.
Note:

According to the UN, from February 24 to April 15, 2022, 1982 civilians died in Ukraine.
You can compare this information with the data from the Iraq War because it is well known. This statistic is consistent with the Statista website.
The war in Iraq began on March 20, 2003. In Iraq 7434 citizens died after 42 days (from March 20 to May 1 in 2003).
In the early days of the war in Iraq, more than three times as many people died as in Ukraine. But, as far as I know, the world community has not condemned the United States for the targeted extermination of Iraqi civilians.



On the issue of statistics, it must be taken into account that complete chaos is happening in Ukraine now. There is already a documented case of how Ukrainian Territorial Defense fighters, while under the influence of drugs, shot a 12-year-old Ukrainian boy and wounded his friend, thinking that they were Russian saboteurs. This is to the words of some users that civilians in Ukraine allegedly do not die at the hands of their military. It is still in question to which side these victims will be attributed. And there is a high risk that such cases will continue, since in Ukraine thousands of machine guns were distributed to volunteers and, moreover, Ukrainian prisoners were released so that they would go to war with the Russian army.

4. "30 biolabs developing military geese and pigeon corps".
You distorted the original statement of the Representative of Russia to the United Nations Vasily Nebenzya. On March 11, he made the statement:

Apparently, you have reason to be sarcastic on this topic if you have studied the materials presented by the Russian side and if you are a professional infectious disease specialist in order to completely eliminate the bacteriological threat from that 30 labs in Ukraine. Can you share your expert opinion in order to break the arguments of the Russian side on this issue once and for all?

5. "Russia "defending" Donbas but killing predominantly Russian-speaking Donbas population".
This is a very serious accusation. What are you basing it on?
According to the French war reporter Anne-Laure Bonnel during an interview with a French TV channel, it was not Russia, but the Ukrainian government that bombed its own population in the Donbass.




6. "The flagship randomly catches fire because it can't possibly be that the non-existent Bayraktars and non-existent Ukrainian anti-ship missiles could have something to do with it".
Even Pentagon spokesman John Kirby doesn't know the exact reason why the Moscow cruiser sank. Personally, I believe that the probable cause of the explosion, in addition to the version with Ukrainian Neptune missiles, could be sabotage by one of the team members, since I see no particular reason for Russia to deny the Ukrainian missile attack (if there really was one) as the cause of the sinking. Because Russia previously admitted that the Ukrainian Armed Forces damaged the Russian large landing ship "Saratov".
Ukrainian officials claimed that the Bayraktars diverted the air defense of the Moscow cruiser, and this video indirectly confirms it. However, the video doesn't show the burning cruiser Moscow, but a fire on a Tanzanian ship in 2019.



7. "But by all means, keep looking for excuses for Russian propaganda lies".
Do not confuse excuses with an attempt to understand the current situation, when a lot of fake information is published.

True bitcoiners would never praise totalitarian nutjobs, like you always do. Freedom used to be universally desired until your generation of intertubes-brainwashed zombies pretending that their incoherent ramblings matter more than facts.