Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 330. (Read 61111 times)

Being senile and bed ridden, and then botching a withdrawal from Afghanistan resulting in 13 US service members dying because Joe Biden decided to lie to the public about the power the Taliban had and how quickly Afghanistan would have fallen is weakness. Greenlighting Nord Stream 2 when the U.S. congress wanted sanctions last year is weakness. I notice you happened to ignore the Reutors source, so I suppose it is easy to see Joe Biden as a success when you merely stick your head in the sand at anything that might be perceived negatively. Joe Biden decided to become a Russian oil advocate and work against his party when they wanted to impose sanctions. Russian spy, perhaps?


See above. A competent monkey would do a better job as long as they took a hands-off approach and did nothing. I don't imagine you would be making excuses for Biden had Trump been in charge of this, or had Trump been responsible for getting US service members killed.



EU countries don't want the sanctions, they just want the oil. It is in their interest to ignore Russian aggression because they have things working their way - meaningless sanctions and oil/natural gas sources.

Apologize for what exactly?  Being a member of NATO? Supporting allies?  Having allies?  Considering strengthening allies?

If it's so obvious to you how the Biden administration is dealing with Russia is wrong, what is an obviously not wrong way to handle it?  How should Biden deal with a nuclear armed authoritarian invading a US ally.


Not following your logic.  You think 'so many countries' don't care about Russian aggression because US sanctions do nothing...what do the effects of US sanctions have to do with whether or not a country cares about Russia aggression.  Do you think if US sanctions would do something that would make them all the sudden care?  It's like you heard 'Biden is weak, he can't stop Russia' and decided to whip up a nice word salad.

It won't look like an invasion, it never does. Just pro-Russian politicians that will normalize relationships with Russia and cut off ties with the west. Invasions don't have to be two countries launching nukes at each other to see who's left standing. This isn't the Middle East. I distinctly remember for the past 5 years the claim that the Russians have infiltrated the U.S. with Donald Trump being some sort of Russian spy with intent to destabilize the west. I suppose it's not fair to cite conspiracy theories, but you get the idea.


Unfortunately for the world, the US forces themselves into global affairs they can't handle. So the "Brandon" administration should actually apologize. I guess it was right wing media that forced Joe Biden into greenlighting Nord Stream 2: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-waive-sanctions-firm-ceo-behind-russias-nord-stream-2-pipeline-source-2021-05-19/

If you wonder why so many countries do not care about Russian aggression, it is because they understand U.S. sanctions will do nothing, and the control of natural resources Russia has is far too great. Surely Nord Stream 2 didn't help.

Latvia and Lithuania is bit different thing than Ukraine. As said above, it's a bit difficult to imagine invasion of Russia into NATO country.
You have a point about pro-Russian politics in these countries. But at least in Lithuania they don't have much chances to get elected. Usually they get something like 1% of votes in elections. Latvia is a bit different story because 24% of their population is Russian people. But still, it would be very difficult for pro-Russian politics to get majority in elections.

By using this logic you can become the owner of pretty much anything by just declaring it, lol.

Putin annexed Crimea, and now he annexed Eastern Ukraine.

Moldova is next.  And there is nothing NATO will do about it.

Their 'sanctions' are a joke.

Eventually, they will be forced to confront him militarily (Alaska, northern Canada, or Romania/Poland). 

They are just kicking the can down the road.

One has to reckon that Putin did not lie at all. He said he was not going to invade Ukraine and he did not. Instead he declared part of Ukraine to be independent and then invaded those independent bits.   One has to admire that ability of being so honest and open about the true intentions of the military concentrations.

What is going to be next? "No I am just taking a cup of tea, this boiling water will not be poured unto the dissidents, but if they happen to be in my cup... too bad"??

Reality has little to do with the perception of team 'Lets go Brandon'.  With a steady diet of right wing media anything Biden, and by extension in this case the West in general,  does will be weak.  And they're tip toeing up to the line of showing admiration openly for the way Putin gets things done.  Trump has already signaled it's ok to admire Putins ways.  He has for years, of course, but never while Putin was literally invading an ally unprovoked. 

Maybe he is trying to rebuilt USSR. But that would be stupid. History shows, that every union falls apart. Everyone are united only on the paper, but are ready to backstab a friendly country as soon as possible to protect own interests.


Arent these countries under protection of NATO? Starting annexation, invasion, war will trigger massive war actions on the whole territory of Europe. And with the current weaponry, there will be no winner in this war.

Maybe Paul Manafort will get called in to help a pro Russian candidate get elected to office in one of the Baltic states. 

As long as they can plant pro-Russian politicians it makes things easier because it will be under the guise of a sovereign nation making its own foreign policy decisions. It won't look like an invasion, it will just look like what Viktor Yanukovych did and his attempts to establish closer ties with Russia. Of course, he was oust after riots and fled to Russia so things did not work out, but Putin is a very evil and sadistic man that is willing to risk global conflicts to restore Russia's reputation, so the bar is set very low.

That'd be a sight to behold, what with them being proper NATO members and nowhere near as Russian as Donetsk. Not saying it's impossible, but certainly Putin has lower-hanging fruit to pick.

So Putin's plan is now just to annex Russian speaking regions and declare them as part of Russia, seems logical. No resistance from NATO because the regions are already pro-Russia, and Putin can declare victory by having new proxy regions to Ukraine. The sanctions the US announced are a joke, it's mind boggling that people believe these sanctions will do anything. Latvia and Lithuania are some of the countries that will be next, Putin will implant pro-Russian politicians and stir up conflict within the countries so that they can be declared pro-Russian territories and become annexed without military intervention. The invasion was never supposed to be a physical war, just Russia inching closer to gaining control over disputed regions that will not put up any fight, and won't receive any support from the international community.

I am not that surprised actually. It seems to me that most of us can't really tell what's going on due to the sheer amount of info coming from both sides so it's hard to form opinions. I mean, some things are clear, but there's a lot in between that's hard to comment on. I just can't believe that people involved in this haven't learned anything from the past. Or they learned and just don't care. Can't say what's scarier. The information age is a blessing and a curse in situations like this and media will definitely play a significant role in this conflict, whatever the conflict might be. It's nothing new, Chomsky wrote about the media effects in the Vietnam war, but this time around, it's just that more amplified.

Nope, this things isn't based on my mentality or something else. It was said by Putin. They recognize Donbass and Luhansk border line which is written in their constitution. And in constitution it's not front line. They are using border line which is made by Ukraine long time ago, way before all conflicts and it's whole teritorry of Donbass and Luhansk.
How they are going to take control of it, it's open question. Putin mentioned negotation.

All because your expectations are based on your nationalist mentality, and on far-right statements about an ideal society. If your foggy mind would see the difference between expectation and reality, you would understand that the current lines of demarcation and the historical administrative-territorial division used in the USSR, which was later used in Ukraine, are two different things. Therefore, claiming or trying to seize that part of the Donetsk region that is under the control of Ukraine is tantamount to full-scale military operations.

No matter what anyone says, there is only one scenario in which Russia dares to make this move, but the first step should be made by the EU and not Russia. A scenario in which the EU and the US at this very second will introduce the maximum possible package of sanctions, something like a sanction against North Korea. In the meantime, the EU and the US act with caution by introducing phased sanctions against Russia, Ukrainians have nothing to fear.

I am leading to the fact that the multi-stage system of sanctions is precisely designed so that one of the parties would have leverage in the future, in case the situation worsens even more. Therefore, if the EU would hypothetically take radical measures today, it would lose its leverage, and Russia, knowing that the situation would not worsen, would go for a confrontation or annexation of Donbass, Transnistria and all the territories where its troops are currently located.

Well technically Lithuania announced indpendence in 1990, while Iceland and other more than 40 countries recognized our indpendence in 1991.
But I doubt that these things can be compared. Lithuania were independent country before Soviet occupation. While Donbass and Luhansk basically has no history, it's not separate nation. It's just a region filled with Russian and Ukrainian nationality people.

It's good point. Fact that big part of population there is pro-Russian people is one of main problems for Ukraine and why they can't do much. And this is why I think that Russia won't go more far into West because there is much more pro-Ukrainian nationalist.

As I understand, Russia recognize whole Donbass and Luhanks as independent state. But actually, separatists have basically half of region under their control. If you will look at map and frontline, remaining part of region is controlled by Ukraine: https://www.polgeonow.com/2020/09/ukraine-war-2020-map.html. So, I expect that Russia will try to take remaining part of Donbass and Luhansk with cities like Mariupol or Kramatorsk.
I don't believe that West would recognize these regions in exchange for a peace. Actually, it was big surprise for me that Germany put sanctions connected with Nord Stream 2. I expected just tradional phrases that they're ''deeply concerned.
And complete bankrup for Russia sound like uthopia for me.

I beleive that Putin is a hero for Russian people, same like when he took Crimea. But is it really win for Russia? What is cost of it. Falling ruble, sanctions - if these sanctions with Nord Stream 2 will really happen, it will be big thing. How much money they will have to put into destroyed region and it's economy.
And no victims, I wouldn't say so when during conflict thousand of separatists and Russian soldier were killed.
And Donetsk and Luhanks request to join Russia - it's just matter of time.

Despite the fact that the energy market is favorable at the moment, it can be considered that Russia has already lost the northern stream - 2, since the recent agreement between Bidenn and the German chancellor implied the veto of the northern stream not only in the event of an invasion of Ukraine, but also in the event of any movements of the Russian contingent on non-government controlled Ukraine territories.

As for Putin’s rating, it’s too early to talk about it, but it’s safe to say that he will receive real support from the population on the eve of the elections in 2024, but not earlier. The population of any country likes high-profile victories, especially if there are no victims in these victories, so I won’t be surprised if Donetsk and Lugansk turn to Putin with a request to be included in Russia through a referendum, and most importantly ... Putin will go for meeting.

I think most politicians, and especially Presidents are transactional, and that should be a good thing. The Saudi's (for example) are not going to convert to democracy, and there is no real reason why the US should lose its troops and treasure in order to force them into being one, but that does not mean the US should not get something from the Saudis if the deal is a net benefit to us.

I really don't know what Russia or Putin potentially would have to offer Trump if he were president in 2025. Trump was tough on Putin during his first term and increased the sanctions against Russia during his term. Before covid, it looked like a second Trump term was going to be almost automatic, and if Putin had something to offer, he could have made a deal with Trump. The Trump presidency made the US a net oil/energy exporter, which would be the only potential leverage that Putin might have, however, Trump could easily implement policies that would make the US energy independent again.

I would note that if the Nordstream 2 pipeline was operational today, it is likely that Europe, especially Germany, would be much more willing to look the other way than they are today (even though Germany is really not helping with the situation currently). It was Trump that forced these delays via sanctions, and Putin could have offered Trump something to allow for the Nordstream 2 to be built. Trump was never going to be in office forever, so it would have benefited Putin for the Nordstream 2 to be built today, and for Germany to be relying on it for energy for years.

Russia: We will invade Ukraine!
USA: If Russia invades we will fight back and invade Ukraine!
Europe & NATO: We will not sit back, we will invade Ukraine too!

Ukraine: WTF!!!!!

I liked everything you said especially the bold part. That reminds me of the US a lot. When the US invaded Iraq for having nuclear warheads (which was of course bullsiht) nobody did anything to stop them. That's how a superpower acts. If anyone has any power to stop Russia, go do it, if you can...

So, the West will have to suck this one up.