Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 92.

suchmoon

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Quote from: DaRude on January 14, 2024, 02:45:10 PM

This is a pretty silly argument, to the point of absurdity. Is the concept of media bias really totally alien to you? Do you honestly categorize media sources between totally credible and totally non-credible? If so please share with us which media sources you consider totally credible? (something telling me that you won't and just trolling as usual) Otherwise either state your counterarguments by citing some sources, or stop these silly attempts at derailing the conversation.

Where did I say that I categorize media as "totally credible" etc? Rhetorical question of course, because I didn't, you're just making this up as you always do.

Media can be biased. You are cherrypicking. Incredibly difficult concept to grasp but give it a shot: more than one of those statements can be true.

Lord b

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on January 24, 2022, 02:20:20 AM

I am surprised there haven't been any threads opened about this yet.

In recent months, Russia has massed hundreds of thousands of troops and other military equipment on the Russia-Ukraine border. It is well known that Russia wants Ukraine to be part of its county, however Russian dictator, President Putin, has claimed that the troop mass is part of a training exercise.

The US and NATO allies are sending military equipment to Ukraine to help repeal an attack, and there is some talk about possibly sending troops to the region.

Update 2/18/22:
It appears there may have been some kind of false flag operation in Dumbas, Ukraine, an area controlled by a separatist group, today, possibly involving an alleged bombing of the car belonging to the leader of the separatist group. It is possible this is part of some kind of false flag operation to create a pretext for an invasion.

President Biden today said he believes Putin has made the decision to invade and will start an invasion in the coming days.

Update 2/21/22:
It appears an invasion has begun

Update 2/23/22:
It appears there are some kind of bombings in Kiev, the capital of Ukraine

We've been 2 years into this conflict and the fog of war and propaganda has greatly distorted facts and realities,boundaries between peace and morality is steadily and rapidly eroding
The western powers want to dictate terms and conditions for a conflict they clearly started or should I say clearly helped to stoke the flames

Historically,Russia has always suffered invasions spanning from the Napoleonic wars to the world wars,she has always wanted a secure border and peaceful and economic relations with Europe and the west,one which positively impacts the world
For decades especially after the cold war(another attempt to undermine the soviets now Russia by the west),the Russians have pursued trade and security cooperations with Europe and the west,projects like the nordstream and numerous other infrastructural and defense projects eg OSCE(organization for security and cooperation in Europe) in an attempt to bolster trade and development and regional stability in Europe yet all have been interpreted as a threat to western hegemony and influence in the region

The conflict in Ukraine or at least the latest iteration of it is to all intents and purposes fueled by NATO expansion among other reasons like surrounding Russia,turning the black sea which has historically been Russia's sphere of influence into a NATO lake,weakening of Russia all of which have clearly been articulated by USA and western globalist elite and that begs the question WHY??
Why did the west undertake such a disastrous project in Europe

In the initial phase of the conflict many were and probably still are being misled to believe that NATO and western support which is short of sending troops is an effort to support democracy,sovereignty and is a moral obligation and one wonders where the morality lies in Ukrainian albeit western sponsored and backed shelling of the eastern regions of Ukraine(ethnic Russian speaking) since 2014,where the support for democracy was in the maidan coup in 2014 in which civilians were killed en masse and the eagerness of the western powers to recognise the illegitimate government formed thereafter and no support for the ousted democratically elected government.In the face of such glaring hypocrisy the west has no moral justification to put forward such arguements suffice to say the rhetoric has been laid bare for all to see

The foreign policy of the USA and their western allies especially with regards to this conflict had been an utter catastrophe, one which has global ramifications like the hike in oil prices as a result of sanctions on Russia which produces a substantial amount of global oil,agricultural produce hikes,hike in cost of fertilizer,natural gas and other natural resource
Simply put the west has shot itself in the foot and by extension the rest of the world

As is the norm with the USA,instead of pushing for negotiations they push for escalations,the only calls for negotiations have come from Russia 3 times all of which has been sabotaged by the west

It is painfully obvious that this conflict will end in negotiations and on Russian terms so why has the west subjected Ukraine to utter destruction only to achieve the same objectives set by the Russians which could have been achieved in the first days of the conflict through negotiations

paxmao

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It seems that Ukraine has downed an IL-22 and a A-50 EWC. These are seriously high value targets in the range of hundreds of millions. Ruzzia has only 30 of these.

Something out there is hunting Ruzzian planes and it seems to be hungry.

Quote from: collinscoinz on January 14, 2024, 03:23:39 PM

This is a pretty silly argument, to the point of absurdity. Is the concept of media bias really totally alien to you? Do you honestly categorize media sources between totally credible and totally non-credible? If so please share with us which media sources you consider totally credible? (something telling me that you won't and just trolling as usual) Otherwise either state your counterarguments by citing some sources, or stop these silly attempts at derailing the conversation,
The point is that you choosing which of e.g. Guardian's or any other "western" media articles are credible or not is pretty much a textbook definition of cherry picking. Regardless of any convoluted rationalizations you're making up

For me credibility is at least about facts. If the media or article is stating facts that have not happened, providing data that is dubious or simply false under the pretence that is actually fully accurate then is simply not credible and it is not journalism but disinformation . A different matter is the opinion - the interpretation or conceptualisation of the facts in a gnostical framework.

Most of the articles here are 95% opinion. e.g. "Nazis support Ukraine because the leader of group XYZ says so". The leader saying so is most likely a fact. How real that is merely an opinion - most likely it is just for the gallery.

The fact that the founder of Wagner has swastikas tattooed is a fact, as it is a fact that Putin does use that group so you can say Putin recruits Nazis and it is true. It does not mean everyone in the Ruzzian army is a Nazi or they are used extensively.

The problem here is that some posters tend to think that the opinion given by a newspaper e.g. NYT are facts or are pretending that these are factual truths.

collinscoinz

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This is a pretty silly argument, to the point of absurdity. Is the concept of media bias really totally alien to you? Do you honestly categorize media sources between totally credible and totally non-credible? If so please share with us which media sources you consider totally credible? (something telling me that you won't and just trolling as usual) Otherwise either state your counterarguments by citing some sources, or stop these silly attempts at derailing the conversation,
The point is that you choosing which of e.g. Guardian's or any other "western" media articles are credible or not is pretty much a textbook definition of cherry picking. Regardless of any convoluted rationalizations you're making up

DaRude

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Quote from: suchmoon on January 13, 2024, 08:26:16 PM

Quote from: DaRude on January 13, 2024, 02:25:41 PM

Low or no air defense to cover critical infrastructure (in the largest country in Europe besides Russia), with no prospects of increase against growing Russian missile production, and with Russia on the offensive at the front. But sure you can pretend that i'm just cherry picking, and that western news coverage has not pivoted and coverage is just the same as before. Denial is always an option, but as always at your peril.

What does this have to do with your neo-nazi fetish?

The point is that you choosing which of e.g. Guardian's or any other "western" media articles are credible or not is pretty much a textbook definition of cherry picking. Regardless of any convoluted rationalizations you're making up.

Seems like you have a fetish for making up my fetishes Huh

This is a pretty silly argument, to the point of absurdity. Is the concept of media bias really totally alien to you? Do you honestly categorize media sources between totally credible and totally non-credible? If so please share with us which media sources you consider totally credible? (something telling me that you won't and just trolling as usual) Otherwise either state your counterarguments by citing some sources, or stop these silly attempts at derailing the conversation.

suchmoon

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Quote from: DaRude on January 13, 2024, 02:25:41 PM

Low or no air defense to cover critical infrastructure (in the largest country in Europe besides Russia), with no prospects of increase against growing Russian missile production, and with Russia on the offensive at the front. But sure you can pretend that i'm just cherry picking, and that western news coverage has not pivoted and coverage is just the same as before. Denial is always an option, but as always at your peril.

What does this have to do with your neo-nazi fetish?

The point is that you choosing which of e.g. Guardian's or any other "western" media articles are credible or not is pretty much a textbook definition of cherry picking. Regardless of any convoluted rationalizations you're making up.

DaRude

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Quote from: paxmao on January 13, 2024, 02:54:41 PM

Quote from: DaRude on January 13, 2024, 02:25:41 PM

Low or no air defense to cover critical infrastructure (in the largest country in Europe besides Russia), with no prospects of increase against growing Russian missile production, and with Russia on the offensive at the front. But sure you can pretend that i'm just cherry picking, and that western news coverage has not pivoted and coverage is just the same as before. Denial is always an option, but as always at your peril.

RE ramping production from Ruzzia, hat is not what your "sources say", that is your making.Ruzzian production of missiles and use of them is evidently lower than last year in which there was a continuous destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure. Not the case this year.

Ruzzia at this point is using shells for North Korea (you may ask for view of their "effectiveness" and "user safety"), Iran and their own production. It is obvious Ruzzia alone cannot keep up with the rate they need to keep the pressure on Ukraine.

The NYT has been consistently publishing smear articles about Ukraine as of late. None of what is says is unknown nor for that matter known in sufficient detail as to make a judgement of the situation. I have no doubt that Ukraine needs the West to free the aid promised, but if you want to speak of the front...

- Avdiivka, well, it is embarrassing for Ruzzia dude. They are Throwing everything they got and still unable to take it.
- Yes the fight near Kupiansk has not stopped. Ruzzia got nothing, but yes, the fight has not sttoped nor the loses.
- Vulhedar direction... well, Ruzzia has stopped trying pretty much...
- RE Chasiv Yar, sure the article says there are attacks in that direction. As there are in most directions, with plenty of rusty crap left behind to nearly no effect.

BTW, it seems that Putin's fund have started to be seized effectively - not frozen, but seized. No more "playing nice".

Quote from: https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-again-has-enough-missiles-to-hammer-ukraine-and-critical-targets-2024-1

Last Friday's attack has been described by Ukrainian officials as the worst aerial strike of the war, involving 158 missiles and drones and a death toll of at least 39 people.

On Tuesday, Russia followed that attack with more than 130 missiles, 10 of which were Kinzhal missiles, and drones.
...
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Tuesday that since last Friday, the Russians have lobbed about 500 missiles and drones at his country.

The sheer number of weapons used is consistent with warnings from Ukrainian officials that Russia had been amassing weapons for larger air assaults and raises questions about both its stockpiles and production capabilities.
...
The sheer number of weapons used is consistent with warnings from Ukrainian officials that Russia had been amassing weapons for larger air assaults and raises questions about both its stockpiles and production capabilities.

Two things are happening. One, Russia has mobilized its defense industry for war-time production, an effort Western officials recently admitted they underestimated, and two, certain nations, such as North Korea and Iran, have partnered closely with Russia, supporting its war efforts.

Experts have previously assessed that Russia has upped its production of long-range munitions, among other weapons and systems.

"For Russia, the supply of strike munitions is increasing. In October 2022 Russia was producing approximately 40 long-range missiles a month. Now it is producing over 100 a month, and this is supplemented by large numbers of Geran-2 UAVs," Jack Watling, a land warfare expert at the Royal United Services Institute, wrote in an October report.

Justin Bronk, a fellow RUSI expert, recently made a similar assessment, noting that "Russia has now transitioned its economy onto a war footing."

"For much of the year, Russian forces in Ukraine have been suffering from significant shortages of vehicles, weapons and above all ammunition," he wrote in December. "However, from a low point in the spring, Russia's military supply situation has been steadily improving."
...
the Ministry noted, adding that "Russian planners almost certainly recognize the growing importance of relative defense industrial capacity as they prepare for a long war."

And this is before yesterdays attack, and from the western sources so adjust for bias appropriately. Of course Russia is also trying to procure more missiles from anywhere it can. But hey if you want to believe that Russia is not ramping missile production, you're free to do so, i heard some "sources" even say that Russia will run out...soon.

Quote from: https://visitukraine.today/blog/1212/how-many-missiles-russia-has-left-commentary-of-the-minister-of-defense-of-ukraine

According to the calculations of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, russia has exhausted about 50.7% of its missile arsenal.

only that's back from 23 Nov. 2022

RE movement at the front, all i know is that the consensus from all sides is that Ukraine is now on defensive

paxmao

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Quote from: DaRude on January 13, 2024, 02:25:41 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on January 12, 2024, 06:00:42 PM

Quote from: DaRude on January 12, 2024, 03:54:53 PM

Hmmm, i see, let me try explaining it to you a different way. I do not consider positive news from either side about itself as credible, as i do not consider negative news about the opponent from either side as credible. Logical no? Let me give you an example, Russian sources saying that Russia was withdrawing from Kherson (with whatever positive spin they tried to put on it) was credible and groundbreaking. Russia sources talking about some Russian supersoldier that single-handedly defeated battalions of Ukrainian soldiers, or how happy RU mobilized soldiers are that they're on the front lines are not so credible. And this works the other way, The Guardian claiming that Russian economy is about to collapse, how RU military is just so demoralized, Putin is terminally ill/already dead/clone/Hilter/Nazi is not so credible, The Guarding covering US neo-Nazis leaving Ukraine in credible. Each side will exaggerate news positive to them, but will reluctantly cover and will try to soften negative news by trying to put some positive spin on it.

Quote from: https://www.reuters.com/world/ukraine-suffers-mass-russian-missile-attack-officials-2024-01-13/?ref=upstract.com

Ukraine suffered a large Russian missile attack in the early hours of Saturday, while its air defences were able to down a far lower proportion of them than usual.

According to Ukraine's air force, Russia launched 37 missiles and three drones. Eight missiles were downed, it said in a statement on social media.

The air force's spokesperson said earlier this week that Ukraine was now suffering from a deficit of air defence missiles. It was not immediately clear whether this or any other factor was the reason for the low hit rate.

Quote from: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/13/world/europe/ukraine-russia-war.html

Russia Regains Upper Hand in Ukraine’s East as Kyiv’s Troops Struggle

Ukrainians are weary, short of ammunition and outnumbered, and their prospects look bleak. “We can stop them for now, but who knows,” one soldier said. “Tomorrow or the next day, maybe we can’t stop them.”
...
Ukraine’s military prospects are looking bleak. Western military aid is no longer assured at the same levels as years past. Ukraine’s summer counteroffensive in the south, where Jaeger was wounded days after it began, is over, having failed to meet any of its objectives.

And now, Russian troops are on the attack, especially in the country’s east. The town of Marinka has all but fallen. Avdiivka is being slowly encircled. A push on Chasiv Yar, near Bakhmut, is expected. Farther north, outside Kupiansk, the fighting has barely slowed since the fall.

The joke among Ukrainian troops goes like this: The Russian army is not good or bad. It is just long. The Kremlin has more of everything: more men, ammunition and vehicles. And they are not stopping despite their mounting numbers of wounded and dead.
...
“Today we had two shells, but some days we don’t have any in these positions,” said the crew’s commander, who goes by the call sign Monk. “The last time we fired was four days ago, and that was only five shells.”
...
“I have two tanks, but only five shells,” said Italian, as he walked through a denuded tree line splintered by shelling about 500 yards from Russian positions in the Luhansk region. “It’s a bad situation now, especially in Avdiivka and Kupiansk.”

This ammunition imbalance has been felt across much of the more than 600-mile front line, Ukrainian soldiers said. The Russian units are in a position similar to the summer of 2022, where they can simply wear down a Ukrainian position until Kyiv’s forces run out of ordnance. But unlike that summer, there is no longer a frantic scramble in Western capitals to arm and re-equip Ukraine’s troops.

And unlike that summer, drones have assumed a much larger presence in the arsenal of both sides — especially the FPV racing drones affixed with explosives and used like remote-controlled missiles.
...
Outside Avdiivka, where Russian forces are concentrating much of their forces in the east, the rumble of artillery on one recent afternoon was almost nonstop. It was a soundtrack not heard since the war’s earlier months, when Russian paramilitary forces assaulted Bakhmut, eventually capturing it.
...
Washington’s suggestion for Ukraine to go on the defensive in 2024 will mean little if Kyiv does not have the ammunition or people to defend what territory it currently holds, analysts have said.

Low or no air defense to cover critical infrastructure (in the largest country in Europe besides Russia), with no prospects of increase against growing Russian missile production, and with Russia on the offensive at the front. But sure you can pretend that i'm just cherry picking, and that western news coverage has not pivoted and coverage is just the same as before. Denial is always an option, but as always at your peril.

RE ramping production from Ruzzia, hat is not what your "sources say", that is your making.Ruzzian production of missiles and use of them is evidently lower than last year in which there was a continuous destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure. Not the case this year.

Ruzzia at this point is using shells for North Korea (you may ask for view of their "effectiveness" and "user safety"), Iran and their own production. It is obvious Ruzzia alone cannot keep up with the rate they need to keep the pressure on Ukraine.

The NYT has been consistently publishing smear articles about Ukraine as of late. None of what is says is unknown nor for that matter known in sufficient detail as to make a judgement of the situation. I have no doubt that Ukraine needs the West to free the aid promised, but if you want to speak of the front...

- Avdiivka, well, it is embarrassing for Ruzzia dude. They are Throwing everything they got and still unable to take it.
- Yes the fight near Kupiansk has not stopped. Ruzzia got nothing, but yes, the fight has not sttoped nor the loses.
- Vulhedar direction... well, Ruzzia has stopped trying pretty much...
- RE Chasiv Yar, sure the article says there are attacks in that direction. As there are in most directions, with plenty of rusty crap left behind to nearly no effect.

BTW, it seems that Putin's fund have started to be seized effectively - not frozen, but seized. No more "playing nice".

DaRude

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Quote from: suchmoon on January 12, 2024, 06:00:42 PM

Quote from: DaRude on January 12, 2024, 03:54:53 PM

Hmmm, i see, let me try explaining it to you a different way. I do not consider positive news from either side about itself as credible, as i do not consider negative news about the opponent from either side as credible. Logical no? Let me give you an example, Russian sources saying that Russia was withdrawing from Kherson (with whatever positive spin they tried to put on it) was credible and groundbreaking. Russia sources talking about some Russian supersoldier that single-handedly defeated battalions of Ukrainian soldiers, or how happy RU mobilized soldiers are that they're on the front lines are not so credible. And this works the other way, The Guardian claiming that Russian economy is about to collapse, how RU military is just so demoralized, Putin is terminally ill/already dead/clone/Hilter/Nazi is not so credible, The Guarding covering US neo-Nazis leaving Ukraine in credible. Each side will exaggerate news positive to them, but will reluctantly cover and will try to soften negative news by trying to put some positive spin on it.

Quote from: https://www.reuters.com/world/ukraine-suffers-mass-russian-missile-attack-officials-2024-01-13/?ref=upstract.com

Ukraine suffered a large Russian missile attack in the early hours of Saturday, while its air defences were able to down a far lower proportion of them than usual.

According to Ukraine's air force, Russia launched 37 missiles and three drones. Eight missiles were downed, it said in a statement on social media.

The air force's spokesperson said earlier this week that Ukraine was now suffering from a deficit of air defence missiles. It was not immediately clear whether this or any other factor was the reason for the low hit rate.

Quote from: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/13/world/europe/ukraine-russia-war.html

Russia Regains Upper Hand in Ukraine’s East as Kyiv’s Troops Struggle

Ukrainians are weary, short of ammunition and outnumbered, and their prospects look bleak. “We can stop them for now, but who knows,” one soldier said. “Tomorrow or the next day, maybe we can’t stop them.”
...
Ukraine’s military prospects are looking bleak. Western military aid is no longer assured at the same levels as years past. Ukraine’s summer counteroffensive in the south, where Jaeger was wounded days after it began, is over, having failed to meet any of its objectives.

And now, Russian troops are on the attack, especially in the country’s east. The town of Marinka has all but fallen. Avdiivka is being slowly encircled. A push on Chasiv Yar, near Bakhmut, is expected. Farther north, outside Kupiansk, the fighting has barely slowed since the fall.

The joke among Ukrainian troops goes like this: The Russian army is not good or bad. It is just long. The Kremlin has more of everything: more men, ammunition and vehicles. And they are not stopping despite their mounting numbers of wounded and dead.
...
“Today we had two shells, but some days we don’t have any in these positions,” said the crew’s commander, who goes by the call sign Monk. “The last time we fired was four days ago, and that was only five shells.”
...
“I have two tanks, but only five shells,” said Italian, as he walked through a denuded tree line splintered by shelling about 500 yards from Russian positions in the Luhansk region. “It’s a bad situation now, especially in Avdiivka and Kupiansk.”

This ammunition imbalance has been felt across much of the more than 600-mile front line, Ukrainian soldiers said. The Russian units are in a position similar to the summer of 2022, where they can simply wear down a Ukrainian position until Kyiv’s forces run out of ordnance. But unlike that summer, there is no longer a frantic scramble in Western capitals to arm and re-equip Ukraine’s troops.

And unlike that summer, drones have assumed a much larger presence in the arsenal of both sides — especially the FPV racing drones affixed with explosives and used like remote-controlled missiles.
...
Outside Avdiivka, where Russian forces are concentrating much of their forces in the east, the rumble of artillery on one recent afternoon was almost nonstop. It was a soundtrack not heard since the war’s earlier months, when Russian paramilitary forces assaulted Bakhmut, eventually capturing it.
...
Washington’s suggestion for Ukraine to go on the defensive in 2024 will mean little if Kyiv does not have the ammunition or people to defend what territory it currently holds, analysts have said.

Low or no air defense to cover critical infrastructure (in the largest country in Europe besides Russia), with no prospects of increase against growing Russian missile production, and with Russia on the offensive at the front. But sure you can pretend that i'm just cherry picking, and that western news coverage has not pivoted and coverage is just the same as before. Denial is always an option, but as always at your peril.

LTU_btc

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Remember when more than year ago Russia were spreading narrative that Europe is going to freeze without Russian gas in winter? Well, it didn't happened, but now something similar happening in various parts of Russia:
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-cold-heating/32770198.html
https://theins.ru/news/268286
282 houses in Liptesk stays without heating, -30°C tonight. Karma is bitch.

Quote from: cornhodlr on January 12, 2024, 05:52:58 PM

Our town has welcomed around 500 Ukrainian refugees and they all seem to be nice people unlike most of the fake refugees that came from parts of Africa. Both Ukrainian and Russian people should leave their countries en masse and let the glorious leaders on both sides and their families fight each other to the death and go back when they are finished.

There is one difference between Ukrainian and African refugess. First one is really running away from war, second one is mostly just searching for better life and want to live from benefits. Though, significant part of Ukrainians belongs to second category too.
But how you can imagine almost all people of Ukraine and Russia leaving their countries? It's impossible.

suchmoon

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Quote from: DaRude on January 12, 2024, 03:54:53 PM

Hmmm, i see, let me try explaining it to you a different way. I do not consider positive news from either side about itself as credible, as i do not consider negative news about the opponent from either side as credible. Logical no? Let me give you an example, Russian sources saying that Russia was withdrawing from Kherson (with whatever positive spin they tried to put on it) was credible and groundbreaking. Russia sources talking about some Russian supersoldier that single-handedly defeated battalions of Ukrainian soldiers, or how happy RU mobilized soldiers are that they're on the front lines are not so credible. And this works the other way, The Guardian claiming that Russian economy is about to collapse, how RU military is just so demoralized, Putin is terminally ill/already dead/clone/Hilter/Nazi is not so credible, The Guarding covering US neo-Nazis leaving Ukraine in credible. Each side will exaggerate news positive to them, but will reluctantly cover and will try to soften negative news by trying to put some positive spin on it.

cornhodlr

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Our town has welcomed around 500 Ukrainian refugees and they all seem to be nice people unlike most of the fake refugees that came from parts of Africa. Both Ukrainian and Russian people should leave their countries en masse and let the glorious leaders on both sides and their families fight each other to the death and go back when they are finished.

DaRude

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Quote from: paxmao on January 12, 2024, 02:48:17 PM

Quote from: DaRude on January 12, 2024, 01:58:48 PM

Quote from: paxmao on January 12, 2024, 05:48:15 AM

Quote from: DaRude on January 11, 2024, 07:30:05 PM

And now even US neo-Nazis are leaving Ukraine. Not good for Ukrainian younger population which now must be mobilized to compensate. Especially that this has been escalated to a point where i just don't see any incentives for Russia to end this now, so newly mobilized will have to try to survive until next US presidential election.

Quote from: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/11/american-neo-nazi-not-fighting-russia-ukraine-war-far-right-extremist

Neo-Nazis in the US no longer see backing Ukraine as a worthy cause

Two years into the war in Ukraine, once a destination for American extremists, many within the underground far-right movement in the US are avidly disavowing it and advising followers to stay away.
......

Denazification is working?

From your own source, same article... just a bit below

Quote

Whether or not Pohlhaus was serious about the war is another question. Some within the broader US neo-Nazi movement have used the war in Ukraine as a sort of live-action role-playing scheme to build their militant credibility, even if tales of their exploits aren’t true. Kent McLellan, a Floridian who worked with Pohlhaus and is known by the alias “Boneface”, was outed for lying about his Ukraine war bonafides over the summer.

[...]

For its part, the Kremlin has been a relentless recruiter of neo-Nazis to its cause; the co-founder of the mercenary Wagner Group, Dmitry Utkin, not only named his organization after the Third Reich’s favorite composer but had the logo for the Waffen-SS tattooed on both sides of his neck.

So, is this source you have linked is credible information from a credible source in your opinion? Is Putin then recruiting neo-nazis?

Again, Ukraine fought against the real III Reich Nazis during WW II, you are besmirching the memory of all those that died so that you can freely post you crap on this forum.

Thought we've already been through this, but one more time, all media is biased. If you want to get objective information it's your job to research the bias of the source, and consider that bias when consuming their news. Concept of credible information just means that they're not expected to straight out lie. But as a prime example it doesn't mean that they wouldn't use obvious things to dilute their coverage like weasel words "Some within the broader US neo-Nazi movement have used...". I'm not posting news of neo-Nazis leaving Ukraine from RU sources, but when even Guardian starts covering it, it speaks volumes!
...

The quote I provided is from your own article, the exactly same you linked. I thought we had already gone through this, but pictures and wall-texting do not get you out of the questions:

The quote is from your own source, own article. do you consider it credible or not? Because, you know, it says Putin does extensively recruits Neo-Nazis and questions however their relationship with Ukraine (if any).

Hmmm, i see, let me try explaining it to you a different way. I do not consider positive news from either side about itself as credible, as i do not consider negative news about the opponent from either side as credible. Logical no? Let me give you an example, Russian sources saying that Russia was withdrawing from Kherson (with whatever positive spin they tried to put on it) was credible and groundbreaking. Russia sources talking about some Russian supersoldier that single-handedly defeated battalions of Ukrainian soldiers, or how happy RU mobilized soldiers are that they're on the front lines are not so credible. And this works the other way, The Guardian claiming that Russian economy is about to collapse, how RU military is just so demoralized, Putin is terminally ill/already dead/clone/Hilter/Nazi is not so credible, The Guarding covering US neo-Nazis leaving Ukraine in credible. Each side will exaggerate news positive to them, but will reluctantly cover and will try to soften negative news by trying to put some positive spin on it.

paxmao

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Do not die for Putin

Quote from: DaRude on January 12, 2024, 01:58:48 PM

Quote from: paxmao on January 12, 2024, 05:48:15 AM

Quote from: DaRude on January 11, 2024, 07:30:05 PM

And now even US neo-Nazis are leaving Ukraine. Not good for Ukrainian younger population which now must be mobilized to compensate. Especially that this has been escalated to a point where i just don't see any incentives for Russia to end this now, so newly mobilized will have to try to survive until next US presidential election.

Quote from: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/11/american-neo-nazi-not-fighting-russia-ukraine-war-far-right-extremist

Neo-Nazis in the US no longer see backing Ukraine as a worthy cause

Two years into the war in Ukraine, once a destination for American extremists, many within the underground far-right movement in the US are avidly disavowing it and advising followers to stay away.
......

Denazification is working?

From your own source, same article... just a bit below

Quote

Whether or not Pohlhaus was serious about the war is another question. Some within the broader US neo-Nazi movement have used the war in Ukraine as a sort of live-action role-playing scheme to build their militant credibility, even if tales of their exploits aren’t true. Kent McLellan, a Floridian who worked with Pohlhaus and is known by the alias “Boneface”, was outed for lying about his Ukraine war bonafides over the summer.

[...]

For its part, the Kremlin has been a relentless recruiter of neo-Nazis to its cause; the co-founder of the mercenary Wagner Group, Dmitry Utkin, not only named his organization after the Third Reich’s favorite composer but had the logo for the Waffen-SS tattooed on both sides of his neck.

So, is this source you have linked is credible information from a credible source in your opinion? Is Putin then recruiting neo-nazis?

Again, Ukraine fought against the real III Reich Nazis during WW II, you are besmirching the memory of all those that died so that you can freely post you crap on this forum.

Thought we've already been through this, but one more time, all media is biased. If you want to get objective information it's your job to research the bias of the source, and consider that bias when consuming their news. Concept of credible information just means that they're not expected to straight out lie. But as a prime example it doesn't mean that they wouldn't use obvious things to dilute their coverage like weasel words "Some within the broader US neo-Nazi movement have used...". I'm not posting news of neo-Nazis leaving Ukraine from RU sources, but when even Guardian starts covering it, it speaks volumes!
...

The quote I provided is from your own article, the exactly same you linked. I thought we had already gone through this, but pictures and wall-texting do not get you out of the questions:

The quote is from your own source, own article. do you consider it credible or not? Because, you know, it says Putin does extensively recruits Neo-Nazis and questions however their relationship with Ukraine (if any).

DaRude

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Quote from: paxmao on January 12, 2024, 05:48:15 AM

Quote from: DaRude on January 11, 2024, 07:30:05 PM

And now even US neo-Nazis are leaving Ukraine. Not good for Ukrainian younger population which now must be mobilized to compensate. Especially that this has been escalated to a point where i just don't see any incentives for Russia to end this now, so newly mobilized will have to try to survive until next US presidential election.

Quote from: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/11/american-neo-nazi-not-fighting-russia-ukraine-war-far-right-extremist

Neo-Nazis in the US no longer see backing Ukraine as a worthy cause

Two years into the war in Ukraine, once a destination for American extremists, many within the underground far-right movement in the US are avidly disavowing it and advising followers to stay away.
......

Denazification is working?

From your own source, same article... just a bit below

Quote

Whether or not Pohlhaus was serious about the war is another question. Some within the broader US neo-Nazi movement have used the war in Ukraine as a sort of live-action role-playing scheme to build their militant credibility, even if tales of their exploits aren’t true. Kent McLellan, a Floridian who worked with Pohlhaus and is known by the alias “Boneface”, was outed for lying about his Ukraine war bonafides over the summer.

[...]

For its part, the Kremlin has been a relentless recruiter of neo-Nazis to its cause; the co-founder of the mercenary Wagner Group, Dmitry Utkin, not only named his organization after the Third Reich’s favorite composer but had the logo for the Waffen-SS tattooed on both sides of his neck.

So, is this source you have linked is credible information from a credible source in your opinion? Is Putin then recruiting neo-nazis?

Again, Ukraine fought against the real III Reich Nazis during WW II, you are besmirching the memory of all those that died so that you can freely post you crap on this forum.

Thought we've already been through this, but one more time, all media is biased. If you want to get objective information it's your job to research the bias of the source, and consider that bias when consuming their news. Concept of credible information just means that they're not expected to straight out lie. But as a prime example it doesn't mean that they wouldn't use obvious things to dilute their coverage like weasel words "Some within the broader US neo-Nazi movement have used...". I'm not posting news of neo-Nazis leaving Ukraine from RU sources, but when even Guardian starts covering it, it speaks volumes!

And it's funny how they mention Wagner and Dmitry Utkin but totally forgot to mention how their doing today. So technically not a lie just due to lack of current proof using old material of people that don't exist anymore.

I'm not besmirching anyone, there are countless of examples of the west using Nazi collaborators against Soviets, as well as working with terrorists against Russia. Didn't think that "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" logic would surprise anyone in this day and age.

Quote from: kaka_Shipai on January 12, 2024, 08:52:27 AM

I think this war is going to escalate to other parts of the world. The hidden forces that are playing behind the scenes will get out of the curtain and it is at that time that things will get real ugly.
BTW, the level of injustice and intolerance has reached a level where the Humanity will be going through a world war.
War is something that Nature imposes on the humanity for going out of the way and as a punishment of injustice. Which now has gone beyond limits and a World war is around the corner

Escalations and pressures are definitely still rising. Believe all sides now agree that this is beyond Ukraine and that Ukraine is just a willing pawn in all of this. Old hierarchy by definition resist changes, and new blood must challenge it. And just as in nature we haven't figured out how to figure out who's stronger without resorting to actual violence.

kaka_Shipai

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I think this war is going to escalate to other parts of the world. The hidden forces that are playing behind the scenes will get out of the curtain and it is at that time that things will get real ugly.
BTW, the level of injustice and intolerance has reached a level where the Humanity will be going through a world war.
War is something that Nature imposes on the humanity for going out of the way and as a punishment of injustice. Which now has gone beyond limits and a World war is around the corner

paxmao

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Do not die for Putin

Quote from: DaRude on January 11, 2024, 07:30:05 PM

And now even US neo-Nazis are leaving Ukraine. Not good for Ukrainian younger population which now must be mobilized to compensate. Especially that this has been escalated to a point where i just don't see any incentives for Russia to end this now, so newly mobilized will have to try to survive until next US presidential election.

Quote from: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/11/american-neo-nazi-not-fighting-russia-ukraine-war-far-right-extremist

Neo-Nazis in the US no longer see backing Ukraine as a worthy cause

Two years into the war in Ukraine, once a destination for American extremists, many within the underground far-right movement in the US are avidly disavowing it and advising followers to stay away.
......

Denazification is working?

From your own source, same article... just a bit below

Quote

Whether or not Pohlhaus was serious about the war is another question. Some within the broader US neo-Nazi movement have used the war in Ukraine as a sort of live-action role-playing scheme to build their militant credibility, even if tales of their exploits aren’t true. Kent McLellan, a Floridian who worked with Pohlhaus and is known by the alias “Boneface”, was outed for lying about his Ukraine war bonafides over the summer.

[...]

For its part, the Kremlin has been a relentless recruiter of neo-Nazis to its cause; the co-founder of the mercenary Wagner Group, Dmitry Utkin, not only named his organization after the Third Reich’s favorite composer but had the logo for the Waffen-SS tattooed on both sides of his neck.

So, is this source you have linked is credible information from a credible source in your opinion? Is Putin then recruiting neo-nazis?

Again, Ukraine fought against the real III Reich Nazis during WW II, you are besmirching the memory of all those that died so that you can freely post you crap on this forum.

DaRude

legendary

Activity: 2833

Merit: 1851

In order to dump coins one must have coins

And now even US neo-Nazis are leaving Ukraine. Not good for Ukrainian younger population which now must be mobilized to compensate. Especially that this has been escalated to a point where i just don't see any incentives for Russia to end this now, so newly mobilized will have to try to survive until next US presidential election.

Quote from: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/11/american-neo-nazi-not-fighting-russia-ukraine-war-far-right-extremist

Neo-Nazis in the US no longer see backing Ukraine as a worthy cause

Two years into the war in Ukraine, once a destination for American extremists, many within the underground far-right movement in the US are avidly disavowing it and advising followers to stay away.
...
After an open call for international volunteers, the Ukrainian military attracted nearly 20,000 fighters from around the world. Within weeks, there were already so-called American “Boogaloo Bois” flying out.
...
“I will still continue to support the struggle of the people there,” said Pohlhaus before explaining how a disagreement with his personal ally and Russian militia leader fighting for Ukraine, Denis Nikitin (whom Pohlhaus infamously pledged allegiance to over the summer), caused the group to cut ties.

“I’m not going to allow our guys, my guys’ efforts and blood to go towards [the war],” he said.
...
In the same message, Pohlhaus, who confirmed the recording to the Guardian via text message, acknowledged that he was one of the last public-facing neo-Nazi leaders in the US to support the war in Ukraine.
...
Within the wider web of neo-Nazi militancy, Ukraine chatter has all but evaporated with the conflict in Gaza and domestic issues outshining what was once a well-followed world event. Seeing no value in sending men to gain combat experience on the frontline, with too high a risk of death or arrest upon return, US rightwing extremists see Ukraine as a conflict with little upside.
...
But only five years ago, Ukraine was seen as a fertile training ground for far-right extremists.
...
“I think our guys can find adequate training elsewhere without risking their lives in Ukraine,” he said
...
“Chatter among the American online extreme right regarding travel to Ukraine to fight against the Russian invasion has decreased in the last year,” he said, pointing out that in some cases talk about venturing to the war was “either never serious” or a blatant “attempt to raise money through crowdfunding, or was abandoned due to the brutal reality of the conflict or no longer seeing a goal for the American movement”.
...
For European neo-Nazis, on the other hand, the conflict is on their doorstep. Unchecked Russian imperialism is still regarded as very much a close proximity threat by nationalist movements all over the continent.
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“Note that a lot of our guys have been on the frontlines themselves, and everybody here at least knows somebody who has.”
...
European right nationalists from Scandinavia, Poland, Belarus and Russia, among other places, have served on the frontlines. But for many American extremists, the actual prospect of joining the conflict carries practical and logistical difficulties as well as involving a large degree of risk to life and limb.

Denazification is working?

paxmao

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Do not die for Putin

Quote from: BADecker on January 07, 2024, 11:38:21 AM

^^^ So far Russia has been holding herself back... limiting herself to an honorable style of fighting. But Ukraine doesn't really want to exist any longer. We can tell by the way that she keeps on antagonizing the Bear. One little word from Putin, and Lukashenko will come down and wipe out Kiev. Ukraine is really asking for a way to stop existing.

...

Nope, Ruzzia is sending anything conventional they have. Anything they are holding back is merely to keep an operational backup in case they are really attacked or because they have claimed certain capabilities (e.g. stealth) which they do not really have but do not want the enemy to know up to what point they do not have it.

One little word to uncle Luka and Belorussia and the population of BR would likely revolt. Ruzzia cannot deal with an insurrection in BR, that is why "uncle Luka" is just watching the show.

Oh, this is interesting. After capturing a Ruzzian tank, this Ukrainian soldier called the technical service to complain about the quality.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/f5JHzEmlMdU?feature=share

BADecker

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^^^ So far Russia has been holding herself back... limiting herself to an honorable style of fighting. But Ukraine doesn't really want to exist any longer. We can tell by the way that she keeps on antagonizing the Bear. One little word from Putin, and Lukashenko will come down and wipe out Kiev. Ukraine is really asking for a way to stop existing.

German lawmaker: Most Leopard 2 tanks Berlin sent to Ukraine are now NON-OPERATIONAL

https://www.naturalnews.com/2024-01-05-german-lawmaker-tanks-sent-ukraine-non-operational.html
A member of the Bundestag, Germany's parliament, has revealed that most Leopard 2A6 tanks sent to Ukraine are broken and in need of repair.

Sebastian Schafer, who is a member of the German Green Party, made this claim in a letter to arms companies Rheinmetall and Krauss-Maffei Wegmann. According to the letter obtained by the DPA press agency, very few of the 18 Leopard 2A6 tanks Germany gave to Ukraine in March remain in service. He added that many of them are battle-damaged, with lack of key parts hindering their repairs.

Schafer also disclosed that the non-operational tanks are currently in a repair shop in Lithuania. "Unfortunately, it has to be noted that only a very small number of the battle tanks delivered can now be used by Ukraine," the lawmaker noted. He also stressed "an urgent need for action" to get spare parts to the Lithuanian repair hub so that the Leopard 2A6 tanks could return to the frontline.

The lawmaker also pointed out that aside from battle damage, many of the tanks are out of service due to wear and tear. Ukrainian mechanics attempting repairs have also caused further damage to some of the tanks, he added.

According to Russia Today (RT), Germany and other operators of the Leopard platform have provided around 90 of the earlier Leopard 2A4 variants – aside from the 18 Leopard 2A6 tanks. Ukraine also received more than 100 outdated Leopard 1A5 tanks.

Unfortunately, Russian forces quickly turned these tanks into scrap metal within weeks of their arrival. Moscow-backed units had destroyed some of the tanks with missiles and kamikaze drones. At least two Leopard 2 tanks had also been captured intact by Russian troops, RT said.
...

Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 92. (Read 77207 times)