Topic: Russian ruble is scam - page 4. (Read 2259 times)

If there is a fascist regime in Ukraine, then why is the Russian-speaking population not oppressed there?

Well. I have read all your post up to the end and I must admit that you described the events quite correctly.
There's only one thing that should be stressed. What Russia did was not a waging of war against Ukraine but assissting Ukrainian separatists in their armed struggle against the new fascist regime in Kiev.

I believe that this was an honorable deed that was done by Russia but you say that Russia waged a war against Ukraine. Of course the new fascist regime in Kiev after Maidan was a regime that was going to convert Ukraine into anti Russia and the majority of people living in the east of Ukraine as well as Crimea did not want to obey the Kiev regime. That's why they decided to separate from Kiev and as a result of this the Kiev regime sent ATO forces to the east of Ukraine and ordered the bombing of the 2 breakaway provinces.     

Well, let's count how many years Russia has been waging war against Ukraine. If we consider the chronology of the development of events, everything falls into place.
Since the summer of 2013, various action plans for the seizure of Ukrainian territories have begun to be worked out in the circles of the Russian authorities. In September 2013, during Russian-Belarusian exercises in the Kaliningrad region, “operations to protect compatriots allegedly oppressed on the territory of a foreign state” were practiced. According to the scenario of these exercises, “unrest and attempts to seize power occur on the territory of a neighboring state, illegal armed groups are created,” and Russia and Belarus, as neighboring countries, “come in and restore order.” Does this remind you of anything? There was no Maidan yet, and the plan to seize Ukraine was already being worked out by Russia. Subsequently, Russia actually used Euromaidan as a justification for the annexation of Crimea and the subsequent hybrid war against Ukraine in the Donbass.

  By February 23, 2014, Russian special forces received their first orders for Crimea and within a few days the initial covert transfer of troops to the peninsula took place, where, meanwhile, civil confrontation continued.
On February 23-24, under pressure from pro-Russian activists, the executive authorities of Sevastopol were changed.
On February 26, supporters of the Mejlis and the new Ukrainian government tried to seize the building of the Crimean parliament and blocked its work.
  Early in the morning of February 27, the active phase of Russian actions in Crimea began - Russian special forces seized the buildings of the authorities of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, after which deputies of the Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, who gathered in the parliament building, dismissed the government of Anatoly Mogilev and appointed the leader of the Russian party as the head of the new government of Crimea unity" by Sergei Aksenov. He declared non-recognition of the new leadership of Ukraine and turned to Russia for “assistance in ensuring peace and tranquility in the territory of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea.

So, in February 2014, Russia captured the Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea and after that in March, at gunpoint, it held the so-called “referendum” on independence. From that time to the present day, it is already the 11th year since the Crimean peninsula was illegally occupied by Russia.

  Now about the events in Donbass. After the events on the Maidan of Independence in Kyiv, rallies of opponents of the new government established in Kyiv after the removal of President Yanukovych are taking place in the cities of eastern Ukraine. Some activists come out with pro-Russian slogans, in particular, calling for the annexation of the eastern regions to Russia according to the “Crimean scenario.”
On April 6, 2014, rally participants seized the buildings of the Donetsk Regional State Administration, as well as the building of the Lugansk Directorate of the Security Service of Ukraine.
On April 12, several dozen people under the command of former Russian FSB employee Igor Girkin (Strelkov) seized administrative buildings in Slavyansk, Donetsk region.
  After Petro Poroshenko took office as President of Ukraine, Kyiv launched a large-scale counter-offensive. Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Mariupol, Severodonetsk, Lisichansk come under the control of the ATO forces. But the offensive of the ATO forces was interrupted by their severe defeat near Ilovaisk. The course of the military operation was turned around by eight tactical groups of regular troops of the Russian Federation, who crossed the border in armored vehicles and took part in the hostilities. After this, the separatists acquire armored vehicles, which were allegedly found in the mines of Donbass. The Russian military had a significant influence on the separatists, supplying them with weapons and carrying out shelling at their requests. It was under the direct influence of Russian troops and its armored personnel in Minsk that an agreement was concluded that established the demarcation line between the DPR/LPR and Ukraine.
By the way, at the beginning of 2023, the ECHR made a decision according to which the territories of eastern Ukraine controlled by the DPR and LPR were de facto under the control of Russia.

The Russian attack has continued for the eleventh year? What are you smoking?
After Maidan in 2013 the Ukainian Army started to fire on the territory of 2 break away provinces of Ukraine and this has been going on for 10 years before Russia started special miltary operation of denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine.
Are you calling this military agression of Kiev against Donbass and Lugansk the Russian attack?  
Ukrainian nazies have been killing innocent civil people in Donetsk and Lugansk since 2014 up to 2022 and you are saying that it was the Russian attack?

Before Russia attacked Ukraine in 2014 and seized part of its territory militarily, there was no hatred towards Russians. And probably, about half of the population of Ukraine themselves spoke Russian, although they considered themselves Ukrainians. Nothing can be done - the legacy of the USSR, when the Russian language was implanted throughout the territory and national languages were forced out. But the Russian attack has continued for the eleventh year. During this time, a younger generation has grown up and sees with their own eyes the consequences of Russian aggression. Do you want to say that they should have loved the Russians for this?

But before the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russians in February 2022, there was also no hatred of Ukrainians towards Russians and there were no conflicts on this basis at all. In addition, I would not say that there is hatred towards Russians in Ukraine now. Most likely, there is a rejection of everything Russian and this is quite natural.   And I agree with you: it is quite natural that young people consider Russian the language of the occupiers, because the occupiers speak it.

You are right in your thinking that I found the quote function too complicated for me. I have no problem with using it if I want to reply to the whole message of my opponent but I find it too complicated for me to write my comment to only some extracts from my opponents posts. I will try to learn how to use this function properly.

@gloffs. You are using the available functions incorrectly when writing a post. Apparently, you simply copy your opponent’s text, changing its font, and then write your comment. Other forum users may perceive this post design as your contradictory thoughts, and not a dialogue with your opponent.

First, click on the “quote” option, which is located on the right side of the topic title line above the text of your opponent’s post and in the window that opens, after your opponent’s text, insert or write your text.

  If you need to give a comment on a specific phrase of your opponent, then after clicking “quote” in the window that opens, delete the text of your opponent that you do not need and write your text below.

If you need to place your opponent’s text a second time in order to write your comment under it, then you first need to copy the first two lines at the top of the window with your opponent’s data and date, which begin with the words “quote author”, then the opponent’s text, after which you can write or insert your comment.

In all cases, when faced with inconvenient questions, you have a habit of referring to the influence of the United States and its CIA.


But this is reality. What world are you living in?
I am  living in a world where the US has the largest army in the world and where the US pokes its nose into affairs of almost all countries of the world.
This is CIA, my friend.  This is life.

In the case of Finland and Sweden, the US has nothing to do with it.


Are you sure? Can you swear by your mother that this is true?

These states would still be outside NATO, but Russia's direct military aggression in Ukraine changed their attitude towards a neutral status and they also became concerned about their security. And the best guarantee of security for European states against the threat of Russian invasion is NATO membership. For many residents of Finland, the attack of Russia as part of the former USSR on Finland in 1939-1940 is still fresh in their memory. Therefore, like no one else, they immediately soberly assessed the growing military threat from Russia.


Oh, oh, oh. The 2 atomic bombs that the US dropped on Japan in 1945 are also still fresh in my memory.
The Vietnam war is also still fresh in my memory. The inside job carried out by FBI and CIA in 9-11 is also still fresh in my memory. It's all still fresh in my memory.

So, as a result of a direct and open military attack on Ukraine, Russia has 1,271.8 kilometers of land border with NATO member Finland. But here’s a paradox: instead of strengthening the border with this new NATO member, the number of Russian troops on the Kola Peninsula decreased by five times in February 2023 and continues to decline. Maybe the reason for this is that Finland joined some other NATO alliance, more friendly to Russia, than Ukraine wanted? But no. The reason is that Russia does not have enough troops or military equipment for this. Back in early 2023, the 200th Motorized Rifle Brigade, the 61st Separate Marine Brigade, and the 80th Arctic Motorized Rifle Brigade, which are now fighting in Ukraine, were withdrawn from the Kola Peninsula. Therefore, in order to somehow save his face, Putin had to once again lie that the entry of Finland and Sweden into NATO does not create an immediate threat to Russia.
https://24tv.ua/ru/chto-izvestno-ob-armii-finljandii-chto-budet-baltijskim-morem_n2289607

Another year or two of war in Ukraine and Putin will have to declare that the United States is the most friendly country for Russia...


What should we do about it? Should I contact Putin and let him know what's going on on the border with Finland?

In all cases, when faced with inconvenient questions, you have a habit of referring to the influence of the United States and its CIA. In the case of Finland and Sweden, the US has nothing to do with it. These states would still be outside NATO, but Russia's direct military aggression in Ukraine changed their attitude towards a neutral status and they also became concerned about their security. And the best guarantee of security for European states against the threat of Russian invasion is NATO membership. For many residents of Finland, the attack of Russia as part of the former USSR on Finland in 1939-1940 is still fresh in their memory. Therefore, like no one else, they immediately soberly assessed the growing military threat from Russia.

So, as a result of a direct and open military attack on Ukraine, Russia has 1,271.8 kilometers of land border with NATO member Finland. But here’s a paradox: instead of strengthening the border with this new NATO member, the number of Russian troops on the Kola Peninsula decreased by five times in February 2023 and continues to decline. Maybe the reason for this is that Finland joined some other NATO alliance, more friendly to Russia, than Ukraine wanted? But no. The reason is that Russia does not have enough troops or military equipment for this. Back in early 2023, the 200th Motorized Rifle Brigade, the 61st Separate Marine Brigade, and the 80th Arctic Motorized Rifle Brigade, which are now fighting in Ukraine, were withdrawn from the Kola Peninsula. Therefore, in order to somehow save his face, Putin had to once again lie that the entry of Finland and Sweden into NATO does not create an immediate threat to Russia.
https://24tv.ua/ru/chto-izvestno-ob-armii-finljandii-chto-budet-baltijskim-morem_n2289607

Another year or two of war in Ukraine and Putin will have to declare that the United States is the most friendly country for Russia...

Can you tell us in more detail who exactly promised Gorbachev as President of the USSR in 1990 that NATO would not expand eastward and under what circumstances this happened? If this happened, it happened in a private conversation and such a promise does not have any legal consequences.


That's correct. This was a promise in a private conversation.
Gorbachov turned out to be a traitor of Russia. That's why he accepted a promise in a private conversation.


Do, for example, the promises of Putin and other Russian officials that the Russian Federation will not attack Ukraine have any force? If such promises are not enshrined in the relevant agreements, these conversations mean nothing at all.


Well, as you can see Putin simply copies the same methods of deception that are used by the US. Why are you offended by this?  He's just copying US politicians.

Finland, which has a direct border with Russia of more than 1,200 kilometers, recently became a new NATO member. I am absolutely sure that all Finnish missiles are now aimed at Russia, and recently there was information that Finland wants to locate NATO bases on its territory. This is not even the illusory desire of Ukraine to join NATO by 2014, this is Finland’s direct participation in this alliance. Finland even closed its borders with Russia.

In this regard, the question is: where is Russia’s special military operation in Finland? Or is the reason for Russia’s attack on Ukraine something else?


This change of heart in Finland can be easily explained away by the fact that the US is secretly controlling almost all European countries by the European politicians that have been bought by Washington. Almost all European states including Finland are vassal states of the US.
 

Can you tell us in more detail who exactly promised Gorbachev as President of the USSR in 1990 that NATO would not expand eastward and under what circumstances this happened? If this happened, it happened in a private conversation and such a promise does not have any legal consequences. Do, for example, the promises of Putin and other Russian officials that the Russian Federation will not attack Ukraine have any force? If such promises are not enshrined in the relevant agreements, these conversations mean nothing at all.

Finland, which has a direct border with Russia of more than 1,200 kilometers, recently became a new NATO member. I am absolutely sure that all Finnish missiles are now aimed at Russia, and recently there was information that Finland wants to locate NATO bases on its territory. This is not even the illusory desire of Ukraine to join NATO by 2014, this is Finland’s direct participation in this alliance. Finland even closed its borders with Russia.

In this regard, the question is: where is Russia’s special military operation in Finland? Or is the reason for Russia’s attack on Ukraine something else?

I have already said that a Russian attack on Ukraine will have fatal consequences for it. After this war, or even in its final stage, it is most likely that Russia will fall apart into independent republics. Many nations and nationalities of the former USSR, which are now part of Russia, will see the weakness of the central government after this war and will want to secede from Russia. After all, they were kept within Russia mainly by fear and repression. Yes, oil and gas will remain in Siberia, but it will not belong to Russia. This is one of the facets of the price of Russia's attack on Ukraine.


Well, we will see how it will go from here.
By the way Siberia is where I live.

I have already said that a Russian attack on Ukraine will have fatal consequences for it. After this war, or even in its final stage, it is most likely that Russia will fall apart into independent republics. Many nations and nationalities of the former USSR, which are now part of Russia, will see the weakness of the central government after this war and will want to secede from Russia. After all, they were kept within Russia mainly by fear and repression. Yes, oil and gas will remain in Siberia, but it will not belong to Russia. This is one of the facets of the price of Russia's attack on Ukraine.

You know recently I watched a video about the visit of Putin to China.

And I must say that it made me laugh.

The thing is that comrade Xi demands very large discounts on gas and demands that the Russian Federation build the Power of Siberia pipeline at its own expense. And China also does not want the gas pipeline to pass through the territory of Mongolia, since it turns out that Mongolia for China is like Chechnya for Russia. That is, China wants the gas pipeline not to go through Mongolia, and this is again at the expense of Russia.

It is just amazing.

Finally, these liberal bastards in the Russian Federation will have to answer for all that collapse of industry and education that their policies in Russia led to. Let them then begin to industrialize the Russian Federation. But they don’t want to carry it out because they understand that the current elite would lose power in the process of industrialization. It’s just great that China is twisting Putin’s arms like this. Then all the gas in Siberia would remain in Siberia and it would remain there for subsequent generations of Russians, when power in Russia changes and this power rules in favor of common  people, not harming common people, as it is now.

So it turns out from this that the people of Russia must be thankful to the Biden administration for all those and Russian sanctions.

It turns out that Putin wanted to conquer Ukraine especially slowly at the initial stage of the invasion, when the Russian invasion group on February 22, 2022 was tasked with reaching the outskirts of Kyiv by nine o’clock in the morning. That is, in four hours Putin wanted to take Kyiv. No, the calculation was precisely for the lightning speed of the strike, the isolation and partial destruction of the political leadership of Ukraine, so that the puppet regime then appointed by the Russians would convince the West that everything is normal in Ukraine. Europe would hardly have had time to react to the military takeover of Ukraine, and it’s unlikely that they would have adopted it much, given the passivity of the reaction to the takeover of the Ukrainian Crimean peninsula, as well as parts of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions in 2014. Only the decisive resistance of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the Ukrainian people ruined Putin’s plans for this next blitzkrieg.


Listen. I do not work at the army headquarters. So I am not an expert in this but I think that Putin thought that it would a walk in the park. He did not anticipate that kind of resistance from the army of Ukaine.

And even now it is impossible to say that the Russian invaders are in no hurry, almost constantly attacking Ukraine along the entire front line since October last year. On the contrary, Putin always set specific tasks to seize the entire territory of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions by certain dates, and the Armed Forces of Ukraine always thwarted Putin’s plans. He wanted especially big victories at the front for his New Year’s address to the Russians, and then for his inauguration and the day of victory over fascism. Therefore, you are disingenuous once again.


You know Russian propaganda tells us that the Russian army is doing it slowly on purpose but I wouldn't argue with you over this matter because I am not a military expert.

It turns out that Putin wanted to conquer Ukraine especially slowly at the initial stage of the invasion, when the Russian invasion group on February 22, 2022 was tasked with reaching the outskirts of Kyiv by nine o’clock in the morning. That is, in four hours Putin wanted to take Kyiv. No, the calculation was precisely for the lightning speed of the strike, the isolation and partial destruction of the political leadership of Ukraine, so that the puppet regime then appointed by the Russians would convince the West that everything is normal in Ukraine. Europe would hardly have had time to react to the military takeover of Ukraine, and it’s unlikely that they would have adopted it much, given the passivity of the reaction to the takeover of the Ukrainian Crimean peninsula, as well as parts of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions in 2014. Only the decisive resistance of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the Ukrainian people ruined Putin’s plans for this next blitzkrieg.

And even now it is impossible to say that the Russian invaders are in no hurry, almost constantly attacking Ukraine along the entire front line since October last year. On the contrary, Putin always set specific tasks to seize the entire territory of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions by certain dates, and the Armed Forces of Ukraine always thwarted Putin’s plans. He wanted especially big victories at the front for his New Year’s address to the Russians, and then for his inauguration and the day of victory over fascism. Therefore, you are disingenuous once again.

You have not yet taken into account two essential points in this war.


Indeed I have not taken it into account yet.


Firstly, the United States and NATO are not yet directly at war with Russia with their soldiers and their military power. While the onslaught of the “second army of the world” has been held back for three years by the Ukrainians, the Russian occupiers have managed to occupy only 20 percent of the territory of Ukraine over this long period of time. If NATO troops had entered the war, Russia would have lost it long ago. The war back in 2022 could have ended in Russia’s defeat if NATO had provided the Ukrainian Armed Forces with more military assistance. But in the West they fear the collapse of the Russian Federation due to the unpredictability of further events, including the fate of the Russian nuclear arsenal.


The thing is that Russia is doing it very slowly on puspose because Putin understands that as soon as the situation changes dramatically then NATO countries might behave differently and he does not want that to happen.

On the other hand the US also has a hidden motive which you have partially explained. The US does not want either Russia or Ukraine to win in this war. The US would rather like this to be a protracted conflict that would bleed and weaken Russia during a long period of time.  


Secondly, in the wars against Napoleon and Hitler, the Ukrainians were always the first to bear the brunt. Now, as you understand, the situation is a little different. It was in vain that Russia attacked Ukraine. The myth of Russia's invincibility, which has been created for a very long time. finally defeated by the Ukrainians. Therefore, France, Great Britain and some other countries are already declaring that they are ready to fight with Russia if the situation at the front for Ukraine worsens.


Indeed in the wars against Napoleon and Hitler, the Ukrainians were always the first to bear the brunt but you overlook the fact that this is basically one people but not two different people.
Russia attacked because Russia could not stand the threat of installation of NATO military bases on the territory of Ukraine.
As regards your statement about France, Great Britain and some other countries already declaring that they are ready to fight with Russia if the situation at the front for Ukraine worsens as far as I know these countries have a problem with finding military man power in sufficient quantities. Ordinary people living in Europe and UK do not want to fight and die in this pointless war. More and more people there are coming to realization that the US wants to convert them into cannon fodder.

One more thing: Biden wanted Russia to attack. Biden provoked the Russian attack.

You have not yet taken into account two essential points in this war.

Firstly, the United States and NATO are not yet directly at war with Russia with their soldiers and their military power. While the onslaught of the “second army of the world” has been held back for three years by the Ukrainians, the Russian occupiers have managed to occupy only 20 percent of the territory of Ukraine over this long period of time. If NATO troops had entered the war, Russia would have lost it long ago. The war back in 2022 could have ended in Russia’s defeat if NATO had provided the Ukrainian Armed Forces with more military assistance. But in the West they fear the collapse of the Russian Federation due to the unpredictability of further events, including the fate of the Russian nuclear arsenal.

Secondly, in the wars against Napoleon and Hitler, the Ukrainians were always the first to bear the brunt. Now, as you understand, the situation is a little different. It was in vain that Russia attacked Ukraine. The myth of Russia's invincibility, which has been created for a very long time. finally defeated by the Ukrainians. Therefore, France, Great Britain and some other countries are already declaring that they are ready to fight with Russia if the situation at the front for Ukraine worsens.

The Nazis brought war and destruction to Ukraine, trying to free Ukrainians from the communists, now the Putinists are destroying Ukraine, allegedly trying to free Ukraine from the mythical Banderaites. Why are you all going into Ukraine with weapons in your hands and trying to establish your own rules here by force? And did you forget to ask the Ukrainians whether they need to be “liberated”, and at the cost of massacres and the almost complete destruction of their housing and the infrastructure they use?


The Putinists, as you call them, are not killing Ukrainians. The are making sure that the territory of Ukraine is not used to install US military bases there. Unfortunately the people of Ukraine did not understand the danger of maidan and what nasties it was going to bring them.Now their eyes are being opened by the war.

By the way I copied the word "liberator" and "liberation" from CIA operatives. It was them that wanted to bring so called "democracy" to many other countries of thw world and wanted to "liberate" such countries as Vietnam, Afganistan, etc.

So in this case Putinists are copying CIA words and expressions. The US all the time has been using the word "liberation" and it occured to me that I could use this word as well.

By the way did not CIA forget to ask all those countries whether or not they wanted to be liberated? Well, I am awaiting your reply.

If earlier it was possible to say that there is a lot in common between Ukrainians and Russians, now forget about it. After killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians over the past two years, the Russians are now the worst enemies of the Ukrainians for at least several generations. Any relations between Ukraine and Russia will now be reduced to a minimum. Therefore, live there in your swamps and forget about Ukraine. Pay reparations to the Ukrainians for what you did in Ukraine, only then will it be possible to talk to you about something.


You are wrong here again. There are lots and lots of Ukrainians who are waiting for Russian forces to bring order to their country and help them to get rid of fascist Bandera nationalists. Unfortunately now it can be made only by force.

The Nazis brought war and destruction to Ukraine, trying to free Ukrainians from the communists, now the Putinists are destroying Ukraine, allegedly trying to free Ukraine from the mythical Banderaites. Why are you all going into Ukraine with weapons in your hands and trying to establish your own rules here by force? And did you forget to ask the Ukrainians whether they need to be “liberated”, and at the cost of massacres and the almost complete destruction of their housing and the infrastructure they use?

If earlier it was possible to say that there is a lot in common between Ukrainians and Russians, now forget about it. After killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians over the past two years, the Russians are now the worst enemies of the Ukrainians for at least several generations. Any relations between Ukraine and Russia will now be reduced to a minimum. Therefore, live there in your swamps and forget about Ukraine. Pay reparations to the Ukrainians for what you did in Ukraine, only then will it be possible to talk to you about something.