Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 258. (Read 845582 times)

You say that Jesus is savior but I have no proof of your claim.
You say that the Bible is inerrant but I have not seen the proof.
You say that I am going to hell and that I am destroying myself, but how is that so?
You say that the journals are false but how exactly would that work?
You say that jesus saves us but to me this sounds like magical thinking.
You uttered a contradiction about free will, and did not clarify, so to me it sounds like you are spreading confusion.

The proof of your insincerity comes across almost every time you post in response to me. Constantly you are stating that I said things that I did not. Constantly you are taking things out of contest that I say. Constantly you are asking me "this or that" questions that have little to do with anything that I was speaking about.

Imagine for a minute, that your Journals are something that you are filling yourself on, spiritually. This means that they are training you to attempt manipulation, to cloud the issue, to spread falsehood about the things which we speak of.

Even if you are not caught up in intentionally making a bunch of lies, you are being directed to do so, automatically, by your adherence to the principles in the Journals. That isn't something that God teaches. That is expressly the thing that the devil teaches.

Wake up and see how you are being used, ultimately to your own destruction.

Wait a second BADecker, I just told you that you were not using reason, and you are accusing me of not thinking?

You find GOD by following the CHRIST "way", as you so aptly quoted from Psalms 1.
You don't get to choose to be saved by accepting the "Son of God"; that is "magical thinking".
If you will not think upon the audio I referenced, I will summarize it for you:
The early Christians practiced "Jewish Messiahnism", they were a Jewish sect, not a separate religion.
Christian Gnosticism grew up along "mainstream" Christianity and these two were of equal validity in the early church. One was chosen over the other for political reasons. Actually, the term "Christian" came much later, from Syria.
Now, with all of the confusion in this late-day Christian belief, you denounce Hatonn as Satanic because he wishes to go back and believe the Christ teachings coming forth from holy GOD as a form of life being-ness, emotional sanctity and goodness according to the golden rule?

 

Why should I keep on playing your stupid game with you?, since you suffer from the inability to think Godly.

I am not a monkey; I am a soul, and I have a body. I have asked atheists in this thread to rationally evaluate the evidence for life after death. Where is your rational response?

Evidence of life after death and corresponding proof of God: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.5300

Hi BADecker,
You suffer from a fanatical refusal to think correctly with regards to obtaining knowledge; you think all truth is contained within one book. I must inform you that the message of that book was dramatically altered by Paul, and this is backed up by modern Biblical scholarship; for details and references, listen to the "First Christians" audios here.

Even the NAME of your "savior" was changed by Paul: The name "Jesus" was not appended to Esu Emmanuel until after he was no longer in the "Holy Land". That is a totally fabricated label given (historically authenticated) by Saul of Tarsus (Paul) during his travels in Greece.

You do not use reason (thus, you end up contradicting yourself as pointed out by Buffer Overflow); you only care about what is written in your book!! You do not love me by throwing your book at me and telling me that I am going to Hell; remember that Emmanuel said "As I have loved you, so you must love one another"; he never said "believe that I am your savior"; Emmanuel said that God's kingdom and laws are within YOU, not in the Torah! Yours is not Christian behavior but the mere denouncing of a brother efforting to find his God Truth. I cannot count how many times I have asked you to learn more about the "First Christians" so that you may be aware of how the teachings of Christ were changed. You have been given the wrong information and you accept that interpretation "on faith", i.e. without thought or reason, but notice how it is the interpretation that the 'authorities' want you to have so that you can go back to sleep and forget about your responsibility to God and your fellow man. Christ realized that God was within him and he tried to TEACH you that God is within you too; you cannot rely on another to take your responsibility for following the laws:


You tell us that Jesus has forgiven you, so there is no need to be responsible for your actions; however, forgiveness of actions is not the same thing as condoning lack of responsibility! Furthermore, you cannot arrive at "GOD" by following a MAN--any MAN, not even a "Jesus". You find GOD by following the CHRIST "way" toward all things and actions chosen, intended and honored. You don't get to choose to be saved by accepting the "Son of God"; that is magical thinking; that is a corruption of Jesus's teachings that was introduced by Paul, as I have stated many times. Christ never wrote down his teachings, so we have to use reason and think critically about the early Christians.

Like I said: Maybe your way and "wisdom" didn't work? Maybe you are judging me and telling me that I am going to Hell because you forgot about that part in the Bible where Emmanuel says "don't judge" and "love one another".

Basically you refuse to accept you're a random monkey that evolved in a random reaction somewhere in the Cosmos, so "it must be God".
Your statement still falls under "negative evidence". At best you can aim for a "probability" of any sort of intelligent source, if you want to create a big conspiracy theory using games theory, but no further than that.

The only way you might be able to scientifically prove that there is no God, is if you can prove one or more of the following 3 scientific law to be false:
1. Cause and effect/action and reaction/Newton's 3rd Law;
2. Universal entropy;
3. Universal complexity, although it is waning.

When you combine the above 3 universal laws, you will find that the only way that we could have the kind of universe that we have, is through something like what we call "God" causing it to exist. God may be nothing like what we generally envision Him to be. Rather, He is exceedingly great and powerful beyond all understanding.

What is there to follow up? If that were the only thing the Bible ever said about Jesus being God, it might be enough. But in the light of the many other Biblical statements that show that Jesus is God, There is nothing else to add. You simply are mistaken.


You make statement about God without knowing how things work.

Jesus and others in the Bible often used parables. Part of the reason was to allow people to be free in their thinking and belief, yet offering them the direction to make the right decision on their own.

You accept the statements of others without going to the Bible and looking at the parables so that you can come to a right decision without being forced by the direct statements of others.


Actually, it is the other way around. The essence of God acts right under the surface of every human being. The consciousness of a person that lets him think that he has free will, rides right on the surface of the consciousness of God directing man's consciousness. And God is in turn directed by the consciousness of man according to His will.

God isn't for the illuminated ones. The illuminated ones by their illumination suggestion, promote the idea that the most important things are those which are secret. The term used for "secret" in this regard is "occult." The occult has to do with making people think that God isn't right with them in a loving, upholding way, when really He is.

Your teaching is wicked and evil in trying to hide the evident things of salvation as the Bible teaches them, from everybody who listens to your garbage.


The beginning of Psalm 1:The point isn't being eternal or recognizing that fact. The point has to do with where you will spend the rest of eternity after you leave this life. Read the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25:31-46 to see the beginnings of how one lives the joyful life in the hereafter.


Don't feel badly. You will have many companions in Hell with you, those who taught similar kinds of garbage as you are spouting.



As I said, there is some truth in everything. Afterlife truth is the most important. If your writings don't proclaim Jesus of the Bible as the way to salvation, but proclaim some other way, then your writings are false, even if they have many particles of truth in them.

This is true, at least for the novice. This is why we have religion. God exists... fact. Religion has to do with unproven and unprovable things regarding God and the universe.


This needs more examination, because we don't really know if anyone has died. Here's what I mean.

If someone survives a car accident but loses his hand because of it, the hand has died, but the person is alive, right? If he later loses both arms and both legs, the arms and legs are dead, but the person is alive, right?

The life identity - the part of us that actually says "I am" - may go on living even though the whole body is lost. We simply do not know except that some religions suggest that this is so.


The problem with this whole idea is that, until we prove Newton's 3rd Law false - action and reaction - there can be no random. In fact, the greater the scientist, the more he wants to find out the action that caused the reaction. This is diametrically opposed to random, especially pure random.


The thing that we call probability has nothing to do with random. Rather, it has to do with our inability to observe the causes behind the effects, or to visualize the correct effects of actions that we might do.

Daily, throughout out lives, we do things that we know will produce certain effects. We know that if we turn the key in the ignition, the car will start... if it isn't out of gas, or if the battery isn't dead. We know that if we turn the water faucet, we will get water... if we paid the bill. But other things - like the directions a leaf will turn in the wind in relation to its position on the tree - have too many complicated causes to determine the exact outcome. So, we use probability - randomess - to determine some of the effects. This random is not really random. It is a good guess, and we use it because of our weakness and lack of ability in observation.



I am not disagreeing with the idea that the universe is not random. I am simply saying that since it isn't, how do we determine that it is God that was the Great First Cause?

Are we still on this?!

Because you can't understand or don't know means nothing about God. You're just trying to claim to have negative evidence! I can't prove there's no God on the very same way you can't prove there's no Santa or no Bigfoot.

Let us not stop in the sharing of God-truth in this thread.


During humanity's time on Earth, many amazing discoveries have been made. Dr. Stevenson found that some children who remember past lives have verifiable memories and characteristics that appear to reference the prior personality and cannot be explained by other causes.

Many lines of evidence support the hypothesis that the personality sometimes survives death; although the truth about life and death may be beyond human comprehension, this hypothesis can be accepted as scientifically proven. Research shows that although past life memories are found in all cultures, awareness of the reincarnation phenomena may improve the chances of correctly recalling a previous life. Humanity must become more aware of itself and its own evolution if we are to have any hope of understanding the truth about life and death.

Compare/Contrast my message with BADecker's message:
BADecker's "Biblical" perspective is listed first, my perspective derived from study of Phoenix Journals is listed second.

1: Saved by your option to accept Jesus of the Bible.
2: Saved by adherence to God's laws.

1: The Bible is inerrant, if something contradicts the Bible then it is wrong.
2: Nothing of Man is inerrant; study it all; Bible has been rewritten.

1: Authority is Paul, a Pharisee who never even met Christ.
2: Authority is Commander Hatonn, who travels with "Christ returned".

1: Rapture will occur and you will be lifted up into the clouds by magic, if you make the choice of accepting Jesus of the Bible.
2: You will be lifted off this planet by space brothers if you make the choice of being in harmony with God's Laws.

1: Jesus is the Son of God, he died for your sins so that you don't have to take responsibility for them, just accept Christ.
2: God is within you; "Christ" is NOT A NAME, it is an emotional state of being. This man KNEW truth and tried to TEACH IT, and now he has returned to instruct you in the laws so that you can take responsibility for your soul-journey.

1: Follow Jesus of the Bible and find GOD within that book.
2: You cannot arrive at "GOD" by following a MAN--any MAN, not even a "Jesus". You find GOD by following the CHRIST "way" toward all things and actions chosen, intended and honored.

1: Jesus has forgiven you, so there is no need to be responsible for your actions.
2: Forgiveness of actions is not the same thing as condoning lack of responsibility!

1: Jesus of the Bible gives everyone freedom, just choose to accept Jesus.
2: Truth can give you freedom--but not until you are ready to part with the lie.

1: Fanatical refusal to think correctly with regards to obtaining knowledge; Bible has many interpretations and unclear allegories, and many resulting cults; however, it does mention the laws of GOD and the part about not judging.
2: Rationally confronts reality of the NWO with genuine God-truth and information--hundreds of books written in a clear and lucid style.

It is fully and totally up to EACH INDIVIDUAL Man as to how and what he will believe his journey to be but the Laws of God are unchangeable for each environment of experience and Laws of Creation are unchangeable in any expression anywhere. God has laid guidelines which will guide your being in safety until maturity of wisdomholder. If, however, one comes as messenger and teacher and teaches the individual the rules of safety, would it not behoove the individual to listen?

If another (e.g. BADecker) compels you to cast aside this WORD then he has just told you the truth of it all. God is open and asks that ye study all so that you can find Truth. If a person denies you, through fear of retaliation or any kind (e.g. claiming that you are going to hell), the free and open study of the WORD AS RENDERED UNTO YOU--then he has just told you that he KNOWS you will find Truth in this work and he can no longer hold control over your being. There is no FEAR in the places or Truth of God.

"The WORD is given forth for your use or denial--but I think were I YOU, I would think carefully as to the validity of that which is offered for there will be no coercion or threat as to your reading or accepting of same. God neither coerces nor forces; HOWEVER, according to your actions within HIS Laws shall ye find your place prepared for you--WILL IT BE GLORY OR MORE OF THE SAME ENDLESS RESTLESSNESS? IT IS SOLELY UP TO YOU. I AM PREPARED TO WELCOME YOU ABOARD OR WAVE GOODBYE FOR IT IS NOT YOUR OPTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT I BRING YOU INTO ANYWHERE--THAT IS DECIDED BY YOUR INTENT TO LIVE WITHIN THE LAWS OF GOD WHO HAS COME TO BRING YOU INTO SAFETY. IT IS NOT UP TO A VOTE OF THE MAJORITY OF HUMAN OF THE SPECIES--IT IS UP TO GOD AND I SERVE ONLY GOD--OF DIVINE CREATION. NO EVIL SHALL BE BROUGHT ABOARD THE WINGED SHIPS OF GOD NOR ENTERED WITHIN THE HOUSES OF GOD.

May the wisdom of insight and understanding be allowed within your awakening that you may see and hear AND ACT for the hourglass is empty and time is run out--it is the time of final choosing of direction and you are either for God or against Him--there is no fence to sit upon for if you turn FROM God you have automatically chosen the evil imprisonment of physical perceptions and on that spiraling cycle shall ye remain."
http://www.phoenixsourcedistributors.com/html/j047/

We have already had this discussion about "I and my father are one"; you can search upon this thread to see that you did not follow-up.

Again, at his trial Emmanuel said "THEY say as much"; he never said "yes, I am God". No need to suggest that he was evasive in his answer to a direct question. GOD IS OPEN AND SHARES ALL IN THE FULL LIGHT OF BRILLIANT DAY--NO SECRETS AND NO MYSTICAL RITUALS OF HUMAN MANIFESTATIONS. GOD IS "MYSTERY" ONLY BECAUSE YOU TAKE NOT THE TIME TO LEARN TRUTH AND GIVE SOLUTION TO THE "MYSTERY".


"All that the one dubbed "Jesus" told the world about the unity of God and Man, and the location of the Mind-Kingdom within every Man, has no meaning except for the very few illumined ones and the very many who now so deeply desire that illuminating. Yes--God-conscious is slowly infiltrating the human race as man knows more and more how to THINK with his Mind instead of SENSING with his body. We, who know God in us, are desirous of illumining the path for you to find that Light of inner knowing--and when you do find it, you will then be able to say--with deep knowing-I and my Father are ONE--and you will know all things! "

"It may take you a while to fully grasp the above, but you can never comprehend it by reasoning with your brain as a sense basis, for in that process is the motion of "thinking". You must learn to "be still and KNOW". The inner thinking of deep meditation will take you into the zero world of REALITY where illusion does not exist. Moreover, neither will the smatterings of incorrect perceptions as given to you before now be forever inhibiting your learning and KNOWING. The more you are able to find that center where the Light of Creation dwells, the more you will be able to discover the Light of your Self, and that is the greatest miracle that can happen to anyone. When you find your Self you also find God in His Kingdom within you. You certainly do not need to go running about the globe searching for Self for, if you do so, you will NEVER FIND SELF. When you have thus acquired full awareness of your own omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence you can then knowingly, and authoritatively, say: "I and my Father are ONE!" "

"Actually you live in two universes--the invisible zero universe of CAUSE, and the visible universe of EFFECT. You have sensed the EFFECT and believed in its reality. You have never yet come to know the universe of CAUSE. It is time that you begin to KNOW God’s invisible universe which is in absolute control of the visible universe. Man will never solve the riddle of the universe until he fully knows and comprehends the zero universe which he can in no way hear or see. He can know it, however, and in so knowing he can, likewise, know God. He can even prove the fact of the omnipresent God in his laboratory. Nor shall man ever solve the riddle of his own Self--his own Identity, until he knows that he, himself, is as eternal as God is eternal. When Man knows that he is Mind and that his body is his Mind-Creation, as the whole universal body is the Mind-Creation of God, he will then know what the consummate mystic of two thousand years ago meant when He said: "I and My Father are ONE." "


From what I can tell, you offer arguments from authority. Someone has told you this, and you accepted it; I do not think that you personally know for a fact that the Bible has saved even a single soul.

You refuse to even look within to inquire upon the subject. It seems like you prefer to read what MAN SAID that God said, and you accept MAN'S authority as proof that "the Bible is right".

You only care about what is written in your book!!

Yours is not Christian behavior but the mere denouncing of a brother efforting to find his God Truth.

I have no proof of the Bible's integrity; Christ never wrote his teachings down in that book!

Like I said: Maybe your way and "wisdom" didn't work?

"As we look out upon this vast world of strife, seeing fear in the soul of Man instead of love and happiness, and seeing greed there, also, for worthless quantities of moving matter, and seeing also desires for body-sensation rather than Mind-inspiration, we can but conclude that Man is still far from knowing that Light within him of which One Man whom Man crucified knew when He said: "I and My Father are ONE." "


Why would you RATHER believe the LIE than the TRUTH?
Ponder it and look within at WHY THIS IS SO?
You are NOT going to make a safe, physical transition to anywhere, cloud or otherwise, through MAGIC.
If you don't like my suggestions--go do your thing and blessings rest upon you--also a lot of sympathy and sadness at such blindness and foolish perceptions.
As I have mentioned a few times in this thread, Hatonn comes to us through radio transmission:
"I write through a “Translator”; communications through pulsed short-wave transmission.  This is not “psychic channeling nor hocus-pocus”. This is purely “physics” of frequency transmission, receiver termination of transmission and translation of the signal into the English language."
http://www.phoenixsourcedistributors.com/html/gch.html

It is a very different thing to argue whether the god described in some particular text is the creator of the universe.  If you want a scientific experiment, you need to approach it with the Scientific method.  The null-hypothesis depends on who you talk to.  This is what you assume to be true.  Then you make experiments to prove one way or the other.

Okay, many people who believed in God have died due to natural causes or not.  This is true, now the Bible states that you will have ever lasting life if you believe.  Here we are with statistical evidence where something didn't come true according to the Bible.  A theologian will say it is not physical death but spiritual death.  Now, we get to something that cannot be tested.  So, if we cannot interpret the bible literally, then it becomes an in futility to say something is so because the bible says so.

Now, can we work with something weaker?  Suppose the null hypothesis is that the Universe was created at random.  This is a kind of no-God Universe view.  If you find ten die on the floor and they all have five on the top face, you would expect that they didn't randomly fall out of someone's bag:  They were set up that way.  Problem is, we only have one data point here.  One Universe to analyze.  But if you see such an arrangement of die you would have to conclude something causes them all to have fives on the top face.

Consider this audio talk about the probability of the Universe becoming a livable place:

http://webtalkradio.net/internet-talk-radio/2015/06/01/conversations-beyond-science-and-religion-the-more-probable-worldview/

We normally reject the null hypothesis in the face of it implying an extremely unlikely situation.   The value is like one in a hundred normally.  That kind of leaves us with the Universe not being random at least.  It doesn't tell you if you should keep a cross or a crescent moon but randomness cannot be the cause.

So, there is the proof that the Universe is not random.

sdp

Your books are attempting to take the focus off Jesus of the Bible. Therefore you ARE by your advancing of them pouncing and pounding on the truth.



There is some truth in everything written. Undoubtedly there is truth of some kind in the Journals. But since the Journals do not pronounce Jesus of the Bible as the way to be saved, but rather express some other way, they also have falsehood in them. For salvation purposes, who needs the Journals, since they lie about salvation?

If they have been handed to us through automatic writing, only those who listen to demons would even want to read them.

Jesus called Himself the son of man in reference to the way Ezekiel was called. Ezekiel was a "type" of Christ. The people recognized that Jesus was God by the actions of healing, and stilling the winds and the waves, and turning water into wine that He did.

Solomon said it is better for someone else to praise you than for you to praise yourself.

During His trial, just before His crucifixion, Jesus said words to the effect that in the future we would see the son of man seated at the right hand of God.

Several times Jesus referred to the time when He would judge the world.

All you need to do is to Google words like "Is Jesus God?" to find all kinds of proofs that Jesus is God listed in the Bible. How much closer to expressing Himself as God can Jesus come than the time that He said, "I and the Father are One?"

Either you believe it or you don't. But the fact is that the Bible New Testament repeatedly says that Jesus is God.

I too have heard this that all the human kind is created from one man and one woman. I have my doubt about this. Today is you have children with your sister or brother they born with grave genetics problems. How is possible that all the human kind is born from two people and are in wealth with no problems?

Christ never said "I, Jesus, am the Son of God". IN FACT AT HIS TRIAL WHEN ASKED IF HE WAS GOD HE SAID, “THEY say as much.”

If your Bible says that Jesus Christ is God--it errs. It should say that the one returning will wear a new name and the name will be the Word which is God--would this not indicate that possibly the Christed energy will have had to grow in His own right to achieve the bearing of the new name? That is, is it not just possible that the name might be Sananda--the WORD WHICH IS GOD!?

You judge my books to be distractions, but look around you; ARE YOU INTO CHAOS AND TROUBLE OR ARE YOU IN THE MIDST OF HARMONY AND BALANCE IN GODLY TRUTH? Maybe your way and "wisdom" didn't work? So what gives you right to pounce and pound on MINE? SO FAR, EVERYTHING I HAVE TOLD YOU IS PROVING TO BE ABSOLUTE TRUTH AND IS CONFIRMED AND I PRONOUNCE NOTHING "ON" YOU.

I find the "books" (JOURNALS) are denounced without so much as holding a copy in hand, much less the reading of such documents. Perhaps it HAS TO BE THAT WAY, however, or the eyes and soul (if one is present) would see Truth?? ()