Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 255. (Read 845582 times)

May you be given into understanding and sharing of TRUTH for I believe that you have said it ALL.

Absurd things like that don't need proof to be proven right, they need proof to be proven wrong. Unicorns are real I'm telling Ya

BCEmporium,
In common parlance, "rational" means that one can think clearly and is capable of intelligently assessing new ideas when presented.
I have not seen any rational response from you; in my response to your post, I allege that you: 1) ignore the many lines of evidence supporting survival, 2) propose an explanation that is not in line with observations, 3) make a non-sequitor and an argument from ignorance, 4) again fail to propose a hypothesis that fits the evidence.

Not true; in India it is something like 1 in 500 children who allege the recall; you simply made up the figure of 1 million. And it does not matter how many people recall their past lives, the fact is that the survival hypothesis is supported by many lines of evidence, and you cannot even begin to refute the 52 points I made.
Again you are misinformed because many cases are described wherein facts are confirmed with astonishing accuracy and fraud (lying) is ruled out as a possible explanation. You can look at the cases mentioned by Stevenson, Eisenbeiss, Pam Reynolds, and Parnia (of the AWARE study) for a start. The experimental controls preclude you from claiming that all of these cases are "made-up", similarly you cannot use fraud as a one-size-fits-all explanation either.

Here we are discussing the evidence for the survival hypothesis, which is very strong and consists of 52 points; that hypothesis is totally independent of whether or not recall of past lives is 'useful'. Your argument is a non-sequitor. You are simply saying that you don't understand God, so therefore...

Another non-sequitor; the fact is that some personalities survive some of the time. How can a materialist explain NDE? Apparently it is so hard that not one atheist in this thread has been able to do so in a rational manner. I suspect this is another argument from ignorance.

It doesn't matter if ONE or EVERYONE has a certain experience, just the having of the experience is proof that the experience happened, i.e. that it happens some of the time. You still claim that this is an illusory, made-up experience when the evidence of point #52 and others shows that you are totally wrong. Why not propose a hypothesis that fits the observations?

1aguar;

That 1 out of millions claim to recall past lives, is crap! If that would be possible then 1 out millions WOULDN'T.
Being 1 liar out of millions makes it easy; nobody can confirm his claims. To be useful then most of us would recall it (taken there's more people in the World now than ever before, a bug chunk must be wearing a brand new shiny soul and would have nothing to recall) and we could cross references to easily check it out...
But bottom line is: we don't.

I, 1aguar, would like for ALL to pay close attention to this quotation:

WHY PERSONAL INTEGRITY REQUIRES PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

[Sananda introduces self and the definitions of integrity and responsibility]

Integrity and responsibility are most delicately intertwined. To achieve utmost spiritual integrity, one must recognize and understand his responsibilities; first to God/Aton/Creator Within and also to the rest of the lifeforce expression within the Creation. In order to become a spiritually conscious co-creator with God/Aton, one must become ONE with living the Cosmic Laws of God /Creation. One must realize his accountability to the Great Spirit within Him. He must become impeccable (free from error, fault, or flaw) regarding adherence to Cosmic Law. And to gain cosmic power, he must become spiritually complete, unimpaired and sound of character, which is the state of being called integrity.

Now in order to become impeccable in your integrity, one must BE responsible by listening to Spirit within about "right" and "wrong"--or as I prefer to call it balanced or unbalanced--thinking and behavior. Each of you have the KNOWLEDGE within with which to be responsible in every thought, word and deed. You need only LISTEN carefully and ask God/Aton within to help you recognize your error, instantly when you make one. It may not always be pleasant to become instantly accountable for your misdeed or misthoughts, but if you pay careful attention, you will find that you will seldom if ever repeat the same error. You will find that the careful attention to and recognition of your inner guidance, instantly, is well worth the temporary inconvenience or discomfort to your "altered" ego.

So by requesting God/Aton within to show you the error, immediately, He will also show you the balanced thought action or deed with which to reclaim your impeccability of Spirit. Why can it be seemingly so easy to recognize errors?

Because, chelas, you ones have made essentially THE SAME errors over and over again. Lifetime after lifetime now you have chosen to be irresponsible and remain spiritually ignorant. You already KNOW and can distinguish between that which is balanced and unbalanced thought and behavior; you simply have forgotten you KNOW.

When you separated yourself from the Great Spirit within you, which fully contained your being as far as perfect guidance and knowledge, you became spiritually powerless. When you worshipped in separateness from THE ONE and therefore sought OUTSIDE your being for guidance, you DENIED the Spirit within YOU its full creative potential. And because you felt no longer responsible for that which you manifested, you became your own slaves to the physical illusion. By your self-denial you created leaders over you who would support your "belief" in separation from Creator, and thus you developed tremendous attachment to physical matter. This accounts for the same developed attachment to EGO-separate illusion.

To achieve Spiritual integrity you are required to BE responsible and acceptable for the effects of your thoughts, words and deeds. In order to be responsible, you must UNDERSTAND and adhere to The Cosmic Laws of that Balance. You must seek ONENESS and see UNITY with all, NOT separation, inferiority or superiority to anyone or anything. You must become impeccable in your intent to serve God and The Creation. You must recognize only ONE WILL, the Will of THE ONE, Creator/Creation. Then you will gain the Spiritual integrity of CHRIST perfection and with that your Power within will become Magnificent.

Remember when I, Sananda, walked as man upon your place I told you, "These things I do, YOU will do GREATER". So be it and it is coming to pass, chelas.

I would like to requote something for you to ponder from our beloved St. Germain: "Your personal power is in direct proportion to the integrity of your soul". This one sentence says it all, chelas. Ponder these things most carefully that you hear Spirit to Spirit and not Spirit to ego illusion. This "time", my brethren, is the "hour" of the dawning of YOUR spiritual awakening. How the Angels Glory in Heaven REJOICE; for earth human is preparing for the celebration of ONENESS and BROTHERHOOD within GOD'S HOLY Kingdom of LIGHT!

Only Man through his adversarial/primitive misdirection chooses to take from nature without regard for balance and harmony of ALL within Creation.

The resounding EFFECTS of Earth Man's adversarial TAKING behavior is clearly represented upon your plane at this time...although Man has only just begun to realize HIMSELF as the CAUSE of this unbalance.

It is always a struggle to take, even if it is only perception of physical "things", simply because the soul is left empty, for your immortal soul is not enriched and replenished through "taking" of life and physical conquering of another or Nature.

Only through KNOWLEDGE of giving of self, without emotional strings attached, will your immortal soul be lifted from earth physical attachment and compression.

WHAT IS "NO STRINGS ATTACHED" GIVING?

In order to give effortlessly, the knowledge has been gained that it is one's expression of God Divine LOVE which is ultimately being given. The fulfillment of true ego-selfless giving is immediate and not dependent upon perceived physical acceptance of same by the receiver. Although one who is a selfless giver will also be a most gracious receiver of returned LOVE to himself.

Are you beginning to understand, precious chelas? God working through you will ALWAYS BE FULFILLING YOU through His giving and regiving of LOVE.

You ones have no idea how often ones of us who work closely with you, want to DO something more than COSMIC LAW will allow us to do. Many ones of us have petitioned to GOD and He clearly has defined that which we may and may not do to remain in His service. The difference between us, of higher experience, and you of Earth physical compression, is that WE KNOW THE LAWS OF GOD AND CREATION and our Spiritual Integrity of SERVICE TO THE HIGHEST ONE will not allow us to break THE LAWS.

Just as a parent with a child who is stumbling and learning to walk feels compassion for his child who he knows must do it on his own with only loving guidance, we too must observe and guide you ones without interfering and DOING it for you, for then we only serve ourselves in our impatience to "hurry" along your growth. The progress of your growth, however "long" it takes, is between YOU and GOD. Interfering in that process is FORCE and FORCE is not of GOD/ATON!

ALLOWING FORCE IS NOT OF GOD

So you may be thinking, "What about the Adversary?" The Adversary definitely seems to "force" his way into domination. DOES THE ADVERSARY REALLY "FORCE"? Think about this, chelas.

The adversary definitely lies, cheats, and intimidates, but does he force his way into existence here. The adversary can kill the body physical to further its means. So where does the adversary get its power? The answer, chelas, is from YOU! You have "allowed" the adversary to intimidate you, and when you became "afraid", you gave the adversary your GOD-POWER. He controls you though your perceived "separation" from God. And the only reason you are still upon this 3rd dimensional plane is because you have BELIEVED THE LIES AND DECEPTIONS OF THE ADVERSARY WHILE YOUR GOD-GIFTED SOUL HAS PINED AWAY FOR RE-UNIFICATION WITH THE ONE, GOD/ATON.

The question now is to self. "Are you ready to release the adversary?" If so, then ALL of your TRUST and FAITH must be directed toward GOD who exists within YOU. Therein will your freedom from the bondage of limited physical adversarial perception be earned. Did you read that clearly? YOU WILL EARN YOUR SPIRITUAL UNITY BY ACCESSING THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD WITHIN YOU. And your "proof" will be forthcoming through FAITH and the return of your free-will to God. For your "proof "of God's existence and "coming" will be revealed WITHIN YOU! FOR THERE IS WHERE EXISTS THE KINGDOM OF GOD…WITHIN YOU!!

SO WHAT ABOUT "GRACE" GIVEN OF GOD?
Grace is the quality of God of Giving and Regiving Love. Let us define Grace, "1. Beauty or harmony of motion, form or manner. 2. Any attractive quality. 3. Service freely rendered; good will. 4. The act of showing favor. 5. Clemency; mercy. 6. Theology. a. The love of God toward man. b. The divine influence operating in man."

Mine scribe, Druthea, watched with some amusement a "Christian" TV Minister on the yesterday. He was speaking about his perception of God's "Grace". He said words to the effect, "You need do NOTHING to receive God's Blessings and Grace". (Sounds a bit like the "just BE" philosophy of many New Agers, does it not?) "We humans believe we must "work" to earn God's Grace. This is NOT true. We must accept CHRIST as our Savior. HE has taken our burden for us." There is the catch; Christ has taken responsibility for YOU! Do you see how deceptive the adversary is? "God will take care of you. You need do nothing. You are not responsible. Christ is your Savior"...ad nauseam!

I am not YOUR savior. YOU are your Savior. And the good news is YOU will EARN your way into God's Grace by standing responsible for self and obeying THE LAWS OF GOD/CREATION. It is really so simple, chelas. You see, GRACE also is a wondrous quality of EFFORTLESS GIVING AND REGIVING BY GOD!

WHAT ABOUT "MERCY"?
I will first define Mercy, "1. Kind or compassionate treatment of an adversary, prisoner, etc., in one's power. 2. A disposition to be kind, forgiving, or helpful. 3. The power to show mercy and compassion."

Remember this carefully, chelas, GOD is all-compassionate LOVE and MERCY. It is the adversary who seeks punishment and is absolutely merciless! You who have allowed yourselves to be ruled by the adversary WILL PUNISH SELF AND BLAME GOD EVERY TIME!

It is only a spiritually ignorant being who will seek punishment of self for perceived errors. Errors are EFFECTS of dis-eased thinking, NOT ever are errors caused from GOD-KNOWLEDGE. ONLY THROUGH THE MISUNDERSTANDING AND MISINTERPRETATION OF THE PHYSICALLY COMPRESSED SENSES AND BLIND DEFIANCE OF THE LAWS OF GOD/CREATION ARE ERRORS CAUSED BY MAN.

YOU DESIRE GOD'S MERCY AND FORGIVENESS? THEN YOU MUST PETITION GOD WITHIN YOU TO GUIDE, PROTECT AND SUSTAIN YOU WITH LOVE AND KNOWLEDGE OF THE POWER OF YOUR WILL AND HIS WILL AS ONE!

God IS ALL-FORGIVING MERCY. So then, chelas, forgiveness and mercy must begin within SELF since that is where GOD resides.

http://www.phoenixsourcedistributors.com/html/j032/

There is no death; our souls are eternal; it has been demonstrated scientifically by the validation of the survival hypothesis that some personalities survive death, therefore it stands to reason that all personalities survive death.

You can evidence the FACT that Emmanuel never once suggested that he was your savior.

Also, you can evidence the fact that you cannot HAVE A SAVIOR for the United States; each citizen must save themselves and help each other (by offering help and responding to the call for help) if we are to save this nation. No one can redeem the nation except the citizens themselves.

If a man cannot bring himself to recognize the presence of God and Hosts, is it different from your own perception?


The entirety of Creation lives and dies in sequences.

What do you mean "if possible"? I still maintain points #39 and #41 which show that it IS possible under certain conditions.
Recall occurs, and in children (#39) it is validated by birthmarks, phobias/philias, specialized knowledge, etc. Similarly for adults under hypnotic regression (#41).
There are even strong cases of after-death communication, when the deceased personality communicates with the living. Here is a very strong case of transcommunication with the dead:
http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/case24_soulmate.pdf

Furthermore, we were still discussing the AWARE study; it strongly supports a separation of mind and brain:
There was 1 verifiable result of veridical perception during a period when the brain absolutely could not function. What is the problem with that conclusion? I think it is remarkable, it definitely needs more study.

The burden of proof is upon skeptics to show how the materialist paradigm can explain the facts surrounding NDE; there is good science in point #52 and others that refutes your assertion that these stories are made up, so I do suggest that you first provide a hypothesis that actually fits the observations.

The survival hypothesis does not propose a purpose or mechanism behind the personality transfer. It stands on its own as a scientific hypothesis without needing a purpose or mechanism.
I do not have a burden of proof with regards to the purpose of rebirth, I just assert the existence of rebirth on the basis of the evidence.
It seems to me that you are searching for a purpose that makes sense in the context of materialism.
Your burden is to prove that the materialist paradigm can explain the facts surrounding NDE. Same with the rest of the evidence for survival.
Since NDE cannot be explained by brain chemistry alone, it shows that mind and brain are not the same thing.
The reason/purpose for survival of the personality will have to be found outside the materialist paradigm.
Hence, I am still seeking a rational response from any atheist in this thread with regards to the evidence presented. All the atheists seem to get really quiet when I present these 52 points for their evaluation.

If we are going around in circles, it is simply because we have not laid the foundation of what we mean by certain words.

Imagine that you are alone, sitting in your room, meditating a little. You are you. You are not somebody else. You might be aware of someone else in your meditation. But even in your awareness, you are you, and not someone else.

In the same way, I am I. I am not you, and you are not me. We may have many similarities in body, mind and spirit. But we are not each other, ever... at least not in this life.

God is a bit different, since He is God. He is far greater than we. Yet, He DOES have an identity that says I am, just the same that we say "I am" with our identity. The difference with God is that He is God in 3 I am's. They are 3; they are each completely God individually; they are completely one God jointly; there is no division between them; yet they are 3 distinct individuals. They can be this way because they are God. We don't understand this just like we don't understand many things about our universe.

Jesus is God from the standpoint of His own I am. Jesus is God from the standpoint of His I am jointly with the Others in what Bible people call the Godhead.

You and I are not part of the Godhead. We can be accepted as having qualities similar to certain aspects of the Godhead, but this acceptance is only allowed because of the work that Jesus did on the cross plus His resurrection, and by the Holy Spirit working faith in Jesus in our hearts.

This is what I mean. We may have disagreement over this. But this is the simplest form of the thing that the Bible teaches regarding the personal identity of God, and the personal identity of each human being other than Jesus. Let's not get started on the personal identities of each angel.


Anybody who wants to do the works of God, will accomplish them when he/she believes in the salvation of Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke this in the Gospels in the N.T.

The words of Psalm 1 direct us to believe in Jesus, Who is called the Messiah in the O.T., thereby accepting the work of perfection that He lived in His life, and the work of salvation that He did on the cross and through His resurrection. This is evident in the fact that nobody has the perfection that God requires, even if a person never does even one sin in his whole life. There is still genetic imperfection in his body.

The foundation for this understanding is explained throughout the O.T., and it has its fulfillment in the N.T., with Paul and others clarifying how it should be used and understood in the churches.


Jesus wasn't only a man, even though He was completely a man.


Obviously, we have disagreement about this.


Imagine that Jesus had done everything that He did. But imagine, also, that the things that He did had never been written down. Would there still be the Journals. Would they be as short as they are?

There are many messiahs in different ways throughout all time. But there is only one Jesus Christ, Jesus Messiah. He, being the begotten Son of God, is the only Savior. Everyone else who has Christ likeness, has it because of Jesus Christ.


Again, it is because of lack of perfection. God gave perfection to mankind when He gave it to Adam and Eve. Mankind wrecked their perfection when they ate the forbidden fruit.

When God created the universe, He saw that everything was good. There was nothing else He could do to save people. Jesus was already built right into the universe from the beginning.

We aren't and can't be good enough for God except that we accept the goodness God worked out for us through Jesus, the Christ.



There is no way to save yourself, or for any person to save himself. If there were, people would not die. We all need someone to save us. God made the way of salvation to be in Jesus, through faith in Him and His work on the cross plus His resurrection. We simply can't do it ourselves. If we could, we would evidence the fact by not dying.

The fact that "Emanuel" means "God with us" and "Ismael" means "by the will of God" and other -El (He in Hebrew) ended names means something related to God are meant to prove anything?! That's like using old claims (not a shred of evidence) as evidence for themselves.
It is like something I came across recently while studying Islam; Quran 2:282 states the witness of a woman worth half of the witness of a man, later on on Hadith Bukhari 6:301 you have Mo asking a woman "if it is not true that the witness of woman worth half of a man" as if it wasn't him the one setting that rule on the first place.  

1aguar;

The ability to recall past lives.
Would be great anyway, if possible. All historical data will be accurate because we would have witnesses of all the periods, including pre-historical times.
But if we don't have such ability, then what purpose would reincarnation fits? None.

I see many "I convinced skeptics" used as an argument. However how "skeptical" were those "skeptics"? Because when you see a "skeptical" on those shows, they say something like: "I was very skeptical about paranormal activity", yet their houses are furnished with several thousands of bucks "paranormal-related" gear. Sounds like they build a house like:
- Hey, I'm skeptical about aliens, but let me spend here more 100K to build an UFO parking lot.
 

Why do we have to go around in circles on this? It is not his being that has any merit--it is his Oneness with Creator, which is called "Christ knowing".

Sananda repeats something that you perhaps missed in your following of incorrect information givers. EXCEPT THROUGH ME (CHRIST ACTIONS AS GIVEN IN BALANCE; THE LAWS OF HARMONY AND BALANCE OF THE GREAT SPIRIT AND MOTHER/FATHER CREATION/CREATOR), SHALL YE PASS INTO THE PERFECTION OF THE SO-CALLED HOUSE OF GOD.

God will not listen to the wicked ones, you have to have meditated upon God's Laws day and night; you too can say "I and the father are one" because God's kingdom is within you and "you will do greater things" than even Emmanuel! You cannot arrive at "GOD" by following a MAN--any MAN, not even a "Jesus". You find GOD by following the CHRIST "way" toward all things and actions chosen, intended and honored.

Why would Emmanuel conceal something from the authorities? It makes no sense; he said "they say as much" because others claimed he was the savior of the Hebrews when he was only a man. This is discussed in the Phoenix Journals at length because there has been so much incorrect information. These are remarkable books and the teachings therein are totally authentic; it is mainstream Christianity that is based on the teachings of MAN and the remnants and revisions of ancient texts of mostly unknown origin.

God is within you; "Christ" is NOT A NAME, it is a form of life being-ness, emotional sanctity and goodness according to the golden rule. This man KNEW truth and tried to TEACH IT. Now he has returned bearing a new name (Sananda) and he has communicated the authentic teachings as found in the Journals, and you disagree only because you have not read enough; in any case, you would do well to understand the laws and meditate upon them, so why not read my perspective on the matter by giving Journal #27 a read. Then you can read Emmanuel's story in Journal #2. These books are packed with wisdom; all Scripture is full of wisdom if you have even a little discernment.

Today, mainstream Christianity has so many splinter groups and the world is in chaos; maybe your way and wisdom didn't work? It is a prime example of magical thinking when you claim that someone has washed away your wicked actions so that you don't have to take responsibility for them. Then, you compound it by claiming that you have the "option" of salvation, as though you need do nothing to earn your way into Godness. I am sorry my brother, but Emmanuel never said that he was your savior. Why must you have interpreters and go-betweens, authorities other than self and "saviors" to take your burden and "save even your soul"? The Evil Adversary King of Deceit also comes calling himself the Prince of Light and the Bright Morning Star. You have to grow beyond the lies of the churches who present the escape route of blood spillage of "saviors" and do-nothing but "believe" raptures. It SIMPLY IS NOT GOING TO WORK THAT WAY--AND YOU ARE CHILDREN OF THE LIE--IN MASONIC TERMS, HOODWINKED! You can't HAVE A SAVIOR for the United States or any other "taken" nation--the nation of citizens have to SAVE THEMSELVES. If you break the laws of GOD (CHRIST LAWS) YOU are among the Antichrist. IF YOU WANT TO BE SAVED--GET WITH TRUTH SO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT AND WHO HAS BROKEN YOU. THERE IS NO ARGUMENT AGAINST TRUTH, SO DON'T BOTHER YOURSELF.

Jesus of the Bible said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the father but through me."

"Emmanuel" means "God with us." Jesus proved He was God by the things He did.


Since we didn't talk about the things you are speaking about here except, possibly, in generalities some time ago, why do you suggest that I made a stance on any of them?

Paul did NOT reject the Old Testament law. Read his N.T. writings and you will see.


You are missing a very important thing in this. Nobody obeys the Law perfectly. And if it isn't perfect, it isn't good enough before God, Who is perfect so that He doesn't even have a shadow of turning.

Want eternal life? Be perfect. Even babies are not perfect, even if they don't sin. Why not? Because they have genetic corruption in themselves by being born from genetically corrupt parents... all the way back to Adam and Eve, who took on genetic corruption from the forbidden fruit they ate.

The only way you can gain eternal life is to talk God into giving it to you. The only one God will listen to is Jesus regarding you and your sin. Why? Because Jesus as God and man took the punisment for everybody - His man part, because man had sinned, and man had to pay - his God part, because His man part didn't have the strength to take the punishment for other men.



Jesus didn't deny His Godness at the trial. He simply maintained it in a way that was most beneficial for those questioning Him.

As far as the occult being in the Journals... The Bible is available around the world. No secret thing there. But few have the Journals. Even if many did, their size is far greater than the Bible. Their meaning is hidden (occult) in their massiveness. As Solomon said, "The more the words, the less the meaning."

His name was Emmanuel, then Paul labeled him "Jesus"; however, Emmanuel never said he was THE WAY, it is through the Christ "way" that you are blessed, just like it says in Psalm 1 that you are blessed by obedience to the Law.

Not true, BADecker; you are ignorant about the modern scholarship on the subject. The first Christians were Jews and they did not reject the OT law like Paul did. After the death of Stephen, the Christians siding with the "savior" story fled and preached their doctrine in other lands, at that point they were called "Christ-people" or christianoi and that is when Paul entered the scene.

Those who meditate upon the Law REALIZE their blessings, they are blessed because of their obedience to the Law. It is sufficient to follow the law and meditate upon it; you don't need to add the doctrine of Paul to the Bible's teachings. Paul was a Pharisee who never met Jesus Emmanuel, so he is not the best authority; the Gnostics have an equal claim to true faith, as you can see from the modern scholarship on the subject.
Paul's doctrine is pretty shaky in light of Psalm 1 which states that it is sufficient to follow the law and meditate upon it, so I thank you for pointing that out to me.


Well, I would ask you the same seeing as you still have an unexplained contradiction that you posted in this thread, you refuse to follow-up on the modern scholarly references provided in those audios, and you posit a hidden (occult) motive for when Emmanuel denied being the "Son of God" at his trial.

Isaac Asimov was one of the world's great science fiction writers. He filled his science fiction stories with lots of science.

Some of the science fiction science of Asimov was found to be incorrect, just as lots of science has been debunked by later science that proved it to not be true. Yet it was probably the science that Asimov had in his works of fiction that excited young researchers to go out and find what the truth was in certain areas of science.

Some of Asimov's science was true. Some of his predictions about science became true. So, we can see how debating science fiction often causes the true science to be revealed one way or another.

How does debating a work of fiction be scientific?

If you guys wanna get some insights into what GOD actually is you should check out out this channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnlVpm_PkNiFlTWFb0sEUDg

"Jesus" means he who saves" or "savior." Paul didn't have to invent the word. He may have been among the first to apply it to the Messiah, Jesus.

You are mistaken about the early church beliefs in the Promised One, and His fulfillment in Jesus.

The person who meditates on God's Law recognizes the blessings from obeying it as well as the curses from not obeying it.

Is it a lot of fun playing ignorant?

That teaching of "salvation through Jesus" is the doctrine of Paul, the one who invented the word "Jesus"; it is not the teaching of the rest of the Bible and it is not Emmanuel's teaching; you do not need to assume that "Jesus" is a savior who died for your sins in order to understand the four Gospels.

Ah, but Paul was a persecutor of Christians and a Pharisee, and he never even met Emmanuel; he was not an apostle. So he would not be the best source to go to for the teachings of Emmanuel. The early Christians relied on the apostles who knew Emmanuel, and they did not hold any ideas about a "savior" or salvation through faith. Emmanuel did not claim to be the Son of God, he said "they say as much" at his trial. The passages in the Gospels can be interpreted as discussing the Christ way of goodness, not the personality and being of Emmanuel, who was a man.

Further, Paul alleges that a savior is necessary to be blessed by God, and that denies what is written in Psalm 1; see below.

Psalm 1 expresses that to be blessed by God, it is sufficient to meditate upon God's Law day and night. No wonder then, that the early Christians had no problem with the Jewish teachings and did not need to introduce a "New Law" or a "Jesus" or a "savior" because they KNEW that it was sufficient to meditate upon God's Law, exactly as expressed.

Since we are talking about salvation, there is no other way to be saved other than through Jesus and the sacrifice He made. That's why to bring the Bible into it.

You are way mistaken about Paul. His writings give credit to Jesus. He was never against Jesus or God.

Psalm 1 expresses what it expresses. It is not the only thing that the Bible expresses.

Why do you need to bring the Bible into this? The volume and detailed content of the Phoenix Project writings stands on its own as evidence that God is open; after all, God IS the WORD, so why not this word? Specifically: Why should we choose Paul over Hatonn? Because you would like to be saved through no effort of your own?

I believe that you have stated that the way to be blessed by God is to meditate upon God's Law day and night (Psalms 1). Is that correct?