Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 276. (Read 845578 times)

Then why aren't your posts entertaining?

 

That WAS the initial point of this thread, but that ended last year when we discovered there isn't any proof of god within the first few pages no less.
The thread exists now for light entertainment purposes. Guess who the thread clown is providing the entertainment?

As long as you maintain science as your main god, you are going to have a hard time in understanding the real God.

I am more than willing to accept any new data which can serve to warrant changing a previously-held position, that's what the scientific process is all about and one of the typically-dishonest thing theists like to claim is evidence of how science can't possibly be right because, you know, it keeps 'changing its mind'.

Whereas what you 'know' about your god, personally, is what you 'know'. Not what can reasonably be asserted, mind, just the absolutely certainty that you are right because . . .you 'know' . . .!

That's not sufficient and is actually a highly dangerous method for defining your reality, to simply believe something by way of subjective experience. Ever read about people who jump off high buildings because they believe they can fly? Do you have any idea how convinced somebody has to be to commit to that leap?

Prior to jumping, they would not be able to objectively prove that they had good reason to believe they can fly, but they sure as hell 'know' they can fly as they jump.

Except, of course, they can't.

The exact same thought process you are so desperate to cling to is the one which convinces people they can fly.

The point of this thread is to determine that God exists. The point of some other thread might be to show that God has spoken to man through the Bible. Because of some of the ramblings of some of the commenters, and because of the serious questions of others, info beyond the simple proving of the existence of God sometimes is posted. It is not for you. You need to first recognize that God exists. Then, maybe you can start to think about finding the info and understanding about Himself that He provides for people.

Since you don't even want to accept that God exists, how can you even fathom the idea that He speaks to people through the Bible? That's why you mistakenly think that there is fallacy in what I understand about God.

ORLY?


So your god is so awesome and way beyond your understanding, yet you continue to claim to know quite a bit about what he wants?

Do you not see the fallacy in that?

Except for one little item. Since this is the only way you can reply, with foolish talk, it is your mind that is being twisted all out of proportion by the truth that I am saying.

God is so "great" that such a question can't apply. Asking such a question is expressing ignorance more than simply saying something like, "God is way beyond my understanding."


Forever? Everything that we understand operates by cause and effect. If the universe is 15 billion years old, think of the logic involved at the start of it that, after all this time, and untold cause and effect activity, the result could be something as great as life and humanity.


Where is our logic? It is said that if two perfect chess players were to compete, it would be a stalemate with white having the slight advantage. What is logic? None of us has enough to fathom the mysteries of the universe. So how can we fathom the mysteries of God?


This is reasonable thinking. However, eliminating the word "God" or even "god" from the dictionary would leave a void that humankind can't explain. The void would be huge, because the design in the universe is intelligently done.


Okay, expand your thinking a little. From a blog somewhere:

The problem with God not focusing on good and evil is this. For the universe to exist, everything has to work. Not one particle of an atom can fail. All the laws of the universe must exist perfectly, or else the whole thing collapses.

We are so extremely imbedded into the universe that our activity must be perfect. Perfect is beyond our understanding of good and evil.

When Jesus/God suffered and died on the cross, and then arose again, He took the punishment for a corrupted universe. Man had corrupted the universe. God came as man, in Jesus, so that man could fix the universe he corrupted, with the only strength that had the ability to fix something like the universe - God strength. Trust Jesus God. He did it for you.

HAHAHAHAAAA!!! I genuinely laughed out loud at the mental gymnastics you must be having to perform to be this willfully ignorant.

I wonder whether you even believe what you write when you have to be that blatantly dishonest about how you are replying.

You are very mistaken. The end of the world is nigh. How do we know? We know it because nobody comes back from death. Oh sure, the doctors claim that they bring people back, but even if it is true, very few people have been resurrected by doctors after a long period of time. And finally, they DO die permanently.

What does this have to do with what you said? Just this. We are mentally/spiritually designed that if we remained in good health, we could enjoy living for hundreds or thousands of years. We could "take" living a lot longer than we do. Life is short. Your end is near, even if you live to 200.

The-end-is-near is a warning to you and others who don't accept God, that, like as you can't keep yourself from dying in a short 100 years, you can't thwart the fact that God exists, even though you try as hard as you do.

These, so-called, 'prophecies' are worded like astrological 'readings', they can be interpreted to suit any time and, one thing you and your ilk seem to forget, they have been heralding the impending 'end times' ever since they were written. Your death-cult is perpetually declaring the end of the world as being nigh.

Your failure to be able to critically examine the claimed 'facts' you wholeheartedly throw yourself into believing, is why you believe them, because you refuse to critically examine them.

It is a vicious cycle powered by . . .you.

Generally, no.

The Revelation talks about the 666 number. If you don't have the number, you won't be able to buy and sell, according to the Revelation.

I have one of those "fat" Webster dictionaries like you find in the library and the university, 1966 edition. Regarding the International Monetary Fund, it has listed about 150 of the top countries in the world as being part of the IMF. About 20 of the most poverty-stricken, war-torn countries of the day were the ones that would not accept IMF membership.

The point? With or without Bitcoin, the world has been in at least the beginnings of the 666 days for a long time.

Here's what Bitcoin is. The Revelation talks about the devil coming up from the Abyss (the place where Jesus sent him by overcoming him with His work on the cross, and His resurrection). When the devil comes up from the Abyss, he will burn the banking system (Babylon in the Revelation) with fire. He will have help. His help will be the people of the world, but especially those who do not truly accept Jesus as the Savior.

I believe Bitcoin is part of this Babylon destruction, the part done by people. Bitcoin might be a small part. You can see the people rising up against their governments because of government corruption. They think that they are doing it to free themselves. But they are really doing it because they are being directed by the devil up from the Abyss, the devil who is playing in the back of their minds. You can see this from the fact that the anti-government uprisings are not religion directed.

Regarding the 666 number, different people have had different understandings of it at different times. One of the old understandings is that 7 is the number of perfection, God's number. The devil and people try to be perfect, but they can't make it. All the farther they get is 6... they try again only getting to 6... they try again only getting to 6...

Find 666 in other places in the Bible. There are only about 4 places. The most important of these is the one that talks about Solomon bringing 666 talents of gold per year, out of Africa, for a period of, maybe, 18 to 20 years. Solomon's nation of Israel might have been the closest nation/national-time to the 7 of perfection for any nation ever... at least in the early years of his reign.

Put together the Solomon gold 666, the description of the Revelation Babylon (the banking system), and the way the 666 number is used in the Revelation, and you get >>> big-time GREED.

The 666 number has to do with greed. It doesn't have to do with money as a tool. It is greed that attaches any money tool to the 666 number.

If anyone is interested, an exceptionally good book for explaining the Revelation is Revelation, a Concordia Commentary by Louis Brighton - http://www.cph.org/p-688-revelation-concordia-commentary.aspx. Amazon sells it. It is a bit of a read.

One addition piece of information here is, this talk about the end of the world is not off-topic. The prophesies in the Revelation are happening. Study the Revelation, then stand back and watch. The prophesies of the Revelation are happening right now. This is part of the proof that God exists.

Sorry to steer the conversation to Bitcoin but, BADecker, do you believe Bitcoin could be the one world money Christians think is controlled by the antichrist? Supposedly, that marks the end of days and the coming rapture. Aren't you supporting the antichrist?

Like ants saying there's no humans.

That genuinely just made me LOL. Literally. 

Referring to emboldened section:  Actually it doesn't need to lead to an infinite regression.  The problem with the machine analogy isn't that it leads to an infinite regression, but rather that it's simply an invalid analogy that results from an inductive fallacy.  The machine analogy is a suggested proof (albeit a bad one) for the existence of God, but the fact that it likens God to a machine-maker in the first place means that the argument assumes both the existence of God and how God is defined.  

In other words, the whole argument puts the cart before the horse by using knowledge of God's existence and definition to prove God's existence and definition.  This implies that knowledge of God's existence and definition was known prior to the machine argument in the first place, and therefore must have been derived from some line of reasoning other than the machine argument.

Well I've been here for years and not once asked to borrow money from anyone, so I'm unlikely to be Dank.

And I show you why it certainly doesn't, here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11177435

Would you stop going about like you know what atheism and science are?  At 251 pages into this thread, you still don't know what they are.


If you're thanking me for posting what you do, please don't.  I don't want to be held responsible for your catastrophic misunderstanding and intellectual dishonesty.  And again, atheism isn't a religion.

From Wiki: "Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities...Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist."

And there you go -- atheism is not a belief system.  It's the lack of religious position entirely.  The "absence of belief that any deities exist" is not the same as "a belief that no deities exist."

Phrased another way, if theism is "a belief that a deity/deities exist,"  then it's inverse is "no belief that a deity/deities exist," and not "the belief that no deity/deities exist."

I think you should stop pushing.  It's coming out as diarrhea.

So you consider life and cells to be machines. And you consider that these machines can make other machines. What made the machine you call God?

Using this logic, everything is made by something else, and it would go on forever. Where does it stop? Are we to accept that God is exempt from the logic you use in this argument? You may respond with something along the lines of "God is the beginning of this progression, the thing that created the universe, and he existed for all time." Well, if there IS in fact an beginning to the progression of machines creating machines creating machines, why can't it be the Universe itself? What if it does not need an intelligent creator and it has existed forever - since time is only extant in the universe it effectively could have existed forever even considering the Big Bang theory. What's even better, is that we know the universe exists and it can be proven by conventional science (so far as proving that anything effectively exists could do). Making things with a specific design in mind is more on the human/advanced animal level, but the universe can certainly create, through the extant and provable laws of physics and semi-random processes. Keep in mind that in the current scientific view, the world is at least 4 billion years old, and the universe much older yet. Just considering the fact that matter and the laws of physics exist, you would expect SOMETHING to happen in all that time. For all we know, there could be a set of "machines" somewhere else in the universe that is far more advanced than what we call "life".

If I were to have a God to account for the universe, it would be the universe itself - matter, energy, and the laws of physics and other fundamental scientific/mathematical laws (maybe even some we haven't discovered yet) - not a sun god, not a lightning god, not a judgemental god that focuses on abstract ideals like good and evil, or even a loving god that watches over each and every one of "His children" and listens to their prayers (of course choosing which ones to answer according to His will alone).