Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 328. (Read 845654 times)

(Wow! We are at 200 pages.)

I used to think that you were simply against the idea of God's existence for some reason. After reviewing some of your posts, I am beginning to think that you have a general thinking problem.

Lack of a certain, specific calendar, doesn't negate the elements that were later used to make up the calendar. But, let's take a look at the idea for a moment. If things are as you state, then certainly the idea of 13 to 14 billion years of universe history is simply preposterous.

Many books have been written. Consider the Book of Mormon, for example. The Book of Mormon has many places where uncredited phrases and quotes from the Bible are used in it. This doesn't make it a changed or corrupted Bible. It is simply a book that has some Bible in it.

Rabbi Uri Harel found that the Old Testament of the Bible in its original language is very exact, and has been handed down almost exactly as it had originally been written. In fact, there are only 12 tiny places where the O.T. is not clearly understood. And these places are so small that they don't change the meaning of surrounding areas.

Google and Youtube search on "Uri Harel."

God say's, I think I need a kid, so without permission, rapes mary, who was dumped by joseph, after he thought she went behind his back.. she obviously did no?

So, your response shows that you can't argue against logic, and you resort to the usual nonsense, "Because Jesus is God's son etc etc". Thanks for clearing that up.

I honestly think you're just trolling...If you're actually serious, then Wow.

This supposed paradox is human, limited thinking. God did it by creating His Son, Jesus, Who was entirely God just as His Father is entirely God and the Holy Spirit is entirely God. Yet they are 3 distinct individuals who are not 3 Gods, but one God. God can do it because He is God.

The Rock that God couldn't lift was Jesus, because the Father couldn't lift Him. Yet the Rock lifted because He lifted Himself. Thus, God couldn't lift, but at the same time He did. Now, the Holy Spirit exists so that, with Him, those of us who are willing, can lift ourselves to the state of "Godness" through Him, the Holy Spirit God. But, we can't do it if we reject God. Why not? No strength without Godness.

Can you face reality at all? The bible is not accurate, it has been rewritten, edited, have things taken out and put in by; The monarchs of england, early christians, the church, and the romans. The bible is not "god's work" simply put. Humans rewrote and edited every portion of the bible. Also, it should do you well to read up on the Eternal Universe theory, which states that the Universe is eternal and has no beginning(Which automatically means the bible's Genesis chapter which talks about creation is 110% false.

Not to mention(I'll tell you again), The Genesis Portion of the bible is believed to be False and/or edited. It says that the universe was created in 6 days. However, back when the bible was supposedly written, there were no 24 hour days. The 24 hour day 365 year calendar is the gregorian calendar and it was made in the 1500s. That by itself means that Genesis is False/Edited.

Just so we’re clear, I’m establishing that that the Bible is inaccurate. Not just inaccurate, but massively inaccurate. There are more examples of course, some which make it clear that the author of the Bible thinks the world is flat, some which make it clear that the author thought the world did not move and then there are more considered examples, such as the value of pi being unknown at the time (surely God would have known it!?!).

So this is my statement, logically derived from the above.

“The Bible is inaccurate – therefore God is fallible – therefore the definition of God is incorrect – therefore God does not exist.”

To add a touch of justification to this, let’s break it down. We know the Bible is inaccurate, in fact the Bible is contradictory within its own pages. The Bible is the only place that defines God, and God is defined as being infallible. The Bible is also stated as being of God’s word (albeit written by man, see below). Seeing as we know the only source that defines the Christian God is inaccurate, and at least part of the definition is inaccurate (infallible), we can not trust the remainder of the definition. Therefore the definition of God in invalid and God does not exist.

There will come arguments from Christians that while God is infallible, and the Bible is the true word of God, the Bible was in fact written by man, who is fallible. This does not hold up when you examine the scale and volume of inaccuracies held within the Bible. I can understand man rounding down the value of pi, for example, but to get the entire creation story wrong is a bit of a stretch. Likewise, given that God is all powerful, he surely would not have left an obviously inaccurate account of his greatest work go to press, or was that just another sign of his fallibility?

I think I’ve made a stronger argument, based on Christian beliefs, for the non existence of God than there ever has been for the existence of such a deity.

Besides the very obvious inconsistencies found in the bible(Which is supposedly the "word of god", the very theory behind god doesn't make sense either. There is a very simple "Omnipotence Paradox" that is currently "unsolvable"(No matter how many false answers you may find people give), it asks that, "  Can god create an object so heavy he can't lift it?". The answer for that is either of these 2:

If yes: then that mean God's power is not absolute and is limited because he can't lift the stone
If no: then that mean God's power is not absolute and is limited because he can't make the stone in the first place


That paradox shows that Omnipotence itself is a logical fallacy aka it is not real. There are also many more paradoxes that exist regarding this.

Most people who think about it know that the speed of light is a constant. Light travels at the rate of 186,000 miles per second. This, however, has been shown by recent experimentation to be wrong. In fact, the speed of light travels at varying rates at different times. The evidence that this is commonly accepted by scientists lies in the redshift of certain stars and galaxies.

The point is, what was the speed of light 2,000 years ago? What was it 10,000 years ago if the universe is indeed that old? We don't know. We can guess. We can estimate to some extent. But we don't know for a fact.

In the past, there might have been tremendously great differences between the "constants" that we see now, and what they were in the distant past. How do we know? Because we are finding tiny differences in many so-called constants year by year right now.

The same is true for much of physics. For example, the simple, well-known physics of the operation of stars is being entirely overturned by the electric cosmos findings.

The point is, we can barely measure things that are right under our noses with reasonable accuracy. The whole idea of a 13 or 14 billion years old universe is pure speculation. It is based on the idea that the constants that we see now were constants over all time. But they are not.

The Bible on the other hand, was taken from writings that came down from almost the beginning, 6,000 years ago. These writings were sifted through by Moses, a prince of Egypt between 1,500 and 1,600 BC. He wrote the basics of what he found, down, in the first 5 books of what would become the Bible.

The strength of the Bible is way stronger that scientific observations of today.

The age of the current creation is right around 6,000 years. See http://www.albatrus.org/english/theology/creation/biblical_age_earth.htm. See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10706854 to show how the Bible itself can be interpreted showing both, 6,000 for this creation, but time-like additions for the whole timeline of the earth https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10706854.

People like BADecker remind me of the Jehovah Witness's going around from door to door, trying to explain fervently and in vain their false beliefs, sad fate.

Unfortunately some people are so stubborn that they can keep themselves from believing the evidence even if it jumps up and bites them in the left eye.
BADecker will be along shortly to give us an actual real life example of such behaviour.

Let’s take the Christian God’s greatest act, creating the world and all who live on it (indirectly). The start of all this, on God’s own words: “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day”. Using genealogy, we can roughly estimate the age of the earth, as stated by the Bible, to be 6500 years. The very top estimate would be close to 10,000 years, but that’s a stretch. Science has proven that the earth is closer to 4.5 billion years old. Radiometric dating has shown us this, and has remained consistent with lunar and terrestrial samples. In other words, we haven’t just tested this once in one situation, it’s been extensively tested. This isn’t a guess, or a hunch, there’s a substantial amount of evidence to back this up.

And that’s the geological age of the earth. What about the creatures on the earth? We, as human beings, were created 6500 years ago, according to the Bible, starting with Adam and then Eve. The oldest discovered human fossil is approximately 1,300,000 (1.3 million) years old. That would have meant that humans lived on earth before God created either humans or the earth. In fact, depending on how much evidence you consider to be acceptable, and how you define us as a species, you could place humans at between 1.8 million and 130,000 years old. No one could sensibly claim that humans are less than 130,000 years old. There is simply too much evidence available for our inspection. Either way, much older than the Bible’s claims.

Kid dying in the Africa? What about free will of it's parents? Or free will of the soul born which soon found out it was a horrible mistake? It sounds crazy but maybe the soul decided to found out how suffering feels. Soul can't imagine it without experience. Another explanation could be that the body can't exist without a soul and some poor soul was "grabbed" there.. Just guessing here..

Your buffer overfloweth.   

This is a difficult question to answer.

One of the answers is that none of this will be remembered or brought to mind after it is over. The important point is the status that each individual will hold in the hereafter.

I accept that it was a real place, and that the naming of the tree came after the happening there.

How does freewill aply to a kid dying right now in africa, there are hundreds that have done nothing and they are dying because of starvation, god could save them but he choses not to

LOL, yeah.

Isn't Eden just metaphor? That tree was "tree of knowledge" imho. At one point we simply found out that we can do bad things - destroy, hurt.. kill because of (/or thanks to) our free will. Maybe that was the point when everything went wrong and that's why it's written in the bible.. It wasn't real place imho.

So when you have absolutly no proofs for something you change subject hmm interesting