Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 351. (Read 845571 times)
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Numbers, huge numbers and time, massive amounts of time. That's what created us and every other living thing in this Universe that we haven't met yet.
That is an assumption which you will find exceedingly hard to prove.
Your claim is not factual; it is wishful thinking.
But if you can back up your claim then by all means feel free to do so. I have already asked in other threads...
Some of the issues with your claim are discussed here:
http://www.us.net/life/
BADecker, this is you in a nutshell:
Now, you probably are just a little bit smarter than Bill ORLY O'Reilly, in that I'm hoping you do understand what causes tidal movement on this planet. But the point is still the same, in that you sit back in your deck-chair, gazing up at the night sky and simply declare everything to be so incomprehensibly complicated that it absolutely positively could only ever be created by an omnipotent super-being whom we are only able to discern the truth of through various ancient writings, you know, what with there being nothing more to go by since the various ancient writings were authored and so we'll just go right ahead and accept that, whatever has been written about the omnipotent super-being must be true because its all we have in terms of data and a bunch of bronze-age goat-herders clearly knew far more about the hidden secrets of The Universe than we could ever hope to discern with our new-fangled scientific reasoning n'all.
BTW, before you go for the ol', "Yeah, well, the fact is that the environment is just so damn perfect for us on earth, what are the chances of that, hmmmmm? Must have been designed to be that way!"
Pro-tip, if things were not 'just right' for biological life to exist on this planet do you know what would have happened? Nothing, biological life wouldn't have thrived in the first place and we wouldn't be here to claim that everything must have been designed because it fits us so well. There's billions of planets out there which, also, will be suitable for biological life, along with billions which won't be.
Numbers, huge numbers and time, massive amounts of time. That's what created us and every other living thing in this Universe that we haven't met yet.
Quote
Apparently, Bill O’Reilly has never heard of the moon. In a debate Tuesday with Dave Silverman, head of the American Atheist group behind this, the Fox host tried to prove the existence of God by citing the unknowable mysteries of the tides. “I’ll tell you why [religion is] not a scam, in my opinion,” he told Silverman. “Tide goes in, tide goes out. Never a miscommunication. You can’t explain that. You can’t explain why the tide goes in.”
Silverman looked stunned. “Tide goes in, tide goes out?” he stuttered. O’Reilly pressed on. “The water, the tide—it comes in and it goes out. It always goes in, then it goes out. … You can’t explain that. You can’t explain it.” Of course, Raw Story points out, people who passed high school science might tell you that tides are caused by the gravitational pull of the moon as it orbits the earth. But Silverman had a better response: “Maybe it’s Thor up on Mount Olympus who’s making the tides go in and out."
Silverman looked stunned. “Tide goes in, tide goes out?” he stuttered. O’Reilly pressed on. “The water, the tide—it comes in and it goes out. It always goes in, then it goes out. … You can’t explain that. You can’t explain it.” Of course, Raw Story points out, people who passed high school science might tell you that tides are caused by the gravitational pull of the moon as it orbits the earth. But Silverman had a better response: “Maybe it’s Thor up on Mount Olympus who’s making the tides go in and out."
Now, you probably are just a little bit smarter than Bill ORLY O'Reilly, in that I'm hoping you do understand what causes tidal movement on this planet. But the point is still the same, in that you sit back in your deck-chair, gazing up at the night sky and simply declare everything to be so incomprehensibly complicated that it absolutely positively could only ever be created by an omnipotent super-being whom we are only able to discern the truth of through various ancient writings, you know, what with there being nothing more to go by since the various ancient writings were authored and so we'll just go right ahead and accept that, whatever has been written about the omnipotent super-being must be true because its all we have in terms of data and a bunch of bronze-age goat-herders clearly knew far more about the hidden secrets of The Universe than we could ever hope to discern with our new-fangled scientific reasoning n'all.
BTW, before you go for the ol', "Yeah, well, the fact is that the environment is just so damn perfect for us on earth, what are the chances of that, hmmmmm? Must have been designed to be that way!"
Pro-tip, if things were not 'just right' for biological life to exist on this planet do you know what would have happened? Nothing, biological life wouldn't have thrived in the first place and we wouldn't be here to claim that everything must have been designed because it fits us so well. There's billions of planets out there which, also, will be suitable for biological life, along with billions which won't be.
Numbers, huge numbers and time, massive amounts of time. That's what created us and every other living thing in this Universe that we haven't met yet.
Step outside sometime in the summertime, and sit down on a lawn chair. Take a half-hour off from the bustling business of the day to watch a leaf on a tree, swaying gracefully in the gentle summer breeze.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Nature can be beautiful... but also brutal. You can just as easily say go sit in the middle of an AIDS-ravaged village on a deckchair with a cocktail and bask in the glorious sun as you watch how graceful a parasite bores into the eye of a innocent human making them blind. Either god expertly designed the parasite or it evolved like every other thing on this planet. If he did invent it then he is not gracious but a psychopath. Regardless, if there was a god the bible would be an insult to his intelligence any way so I hope the wrong god you're not believing in is willing to have mercy or you're screwed
. image
You are right. And it would prove the same point. The point is that mankind barely understands much of anything that goes on in his universe. Man simply plods on through life, flowing with all the forces that move him along this way and that, but never beginning to understand the complexity involved in all of it.
If mankind understood a little of the complexity, he would understand that the devil, and mankind himself by following the devil rather than God, welcomed all the bad things that exist into nature and life. If he understood this, he would recognize how wonderful God is that he even gives man the bad things he asks for right along with the good man doesn't really deserve.
So, you assert that mankind can't understand the complexity, and then you, a man, goes on to tell us what understanding we are missing?
Recognizing an area of complexity has nothing to do with understanding it, necessarily. Recognizing that I don't understand it helps me to recognize where it exists.
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I advise you again to consider that you can be correct in your belief about something, but for the wrong reasons. I believe in God, as do you, but in all the posts I have seen of yours (several dozen to possibly >100 by now), I cannot recall any solid reasoning to support what you believe. The contradictions in your posts are innumerable.
Thanks for the advice. Isn't this a little like (even though it is exactly opposite of) a lot of science theory? For example, there are all kinds of correct statistics and thinking about aspects that make up Big Bang Theory. Yet the conclusion that the Big Bang existed in any of the major views of its Theory is completely false.
I appreciate that you believe in God... at least, that you recognize that you believe in God. Everyone believes in God. And at the expense of potentially having wrong reasons for what I'm about to say, the reason I believe that universal faith in God exists is partially because nobody knows for a fact anything that is going to happen even an instant into the future. We understand through experience that God is allowing and holding a reasonably stable universe in place. So, we have hope that the past moment indicates what the future moment will be like. We were strongly built into this understanding during our formation time in mommy's tummy, and during the first few years of life outside.
The strange part about believing in God is that you can believe in Him incorrectly, as can I. Demons believe in Him, but they know that they will be destroyed by Him. Something like this belief might make their faith in Him stronger at times. Yet, it never becomes saving faith.
When a human being comes to faith in the salvation that God promises to all who believe it - Jesus salvation - that person's faith is instantly bumped from standard faith into a faith that is wildly stronger. It is by no means the upper limit of strength that the faith can possibly achieve. But it is so extremely strong that it actually combines with God enough that the person will be saved in the resurrection.
The danger in this kind of faith is, once it has been attained by an individual, if it is lost somehow, there is virtually no chance that it can be regained again. However, if a person has question about whether or not he has lost his saving faith, he probably hasn't. God is faithful Himself. He won't let a person's saving faith fail easily.
Responding in order (generally):
1) Correct, recognizing complexity does not necessarily mean that you can understand it. However, your response, here, is missing the point, isn't it? I was referring to the irony of you stating that man can never begin to understand the complexity, and then you immediately contradict yourself by going right on telling us what that complexity is. Specifically, it's a contradiction because you are implying that you understand this complexity enough to tell us what it means, immediately after finishing your statement that understanding isn't possible.
2) No, it's not at all like science theory. The scientific method has firm boundaries which it acknowledges at all times. As long as one remains aware of those boundaries and follows the rules (i.e. the "method"), then ones conclusions remain sound in the context of that method.
3) No, everyone does not believe in God. If someone says, "I don't believe in God" and is honest, then they do not believe in God. Simple.
4) So, you use a lack of knowledge as a concrete basis for belief? Would it be fair, then, to suggest that you believe that the less you know about something, the better reason there is to believe in something? If so, do you think this makes sense when you read it?
5) "Demons believe in Him?" Um...what? This paragraph is just a lot of weird assumptions. You asserted earlier that humans can't understand such complexity, and yet you're suggesting you know the relational dynamics between two entities which you also admitted you may believe in for incorrect reasons?
Look, I'm sorry, but you would be more correct by saying, "I have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm just guessing." That would seem to be a more appropriate overview of your beliefs.
The take home point is that, with every post you make, you are using logic. But, in virtually every post you denounce logical approaches to knowledge (e.g. the scientific method, etc.). You can't do that without making untrue statements. Do your beliefs about God include the belief that God wishes his believers to preach what is false? Because that's exactly what you're doing, and provably so.
6) Yeah...the rest of your post is more of you contradicting yourself. If you're going to preach as if you know the truth, then you really shouldn't assert the belief that man can't possibly know what that truth is.
Step outside sometime in the summertime, and sit down on a lawn chair. Take a half-hour off from the bustling business of the day to watch a leaf on a tree, swaying gracefully in the gentle summer breeze.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Nature can be beautiful... but also brutal. You can just as easily say go sit in the middle of an AIDS-ravaged village on a deckchair with a cocktail and bask in the glorious sun as you watch how graceful a parasite bores into the eye of a innocent human making them blind. Either god expertly designed the parasite or it evolved like every other thing on this planet. If he did invent it then he is not gracious but a psychopath. Regardless, if there was a god the bible would be an insult to his intelligence any way so I hope the wrong god you're not believing in is willing to have mercy or you're screwed
. image
You are right. And it would prove the same point. The point is that mankind barely understands much of anything that goes on in his universe. Man simply plods on through life, flowing with all the forces that move him along this way and that, but never beginning to understand the complexity involved in all of it.
If mankind understood a little of the complexity, he would understand that the devil, and mankind himself by following the devil rather than God, welcomed all the bad things that exist into nature and life. If he understood this, he would recognize how wonderful God is that he even gives man the bad things he asks for right along with the good man doesn't really deserve.
So, you assert that mankind can't understand the complexity, and then you, a man, goes on to tell us what understanding we are missing?
Recognizing an area of complexity has nothing to do with understanding it, necessarily. Recognizing that I don't understand it helps me to recognize where it exists.
Quote
I advise you again to consider that you can be correct in your belief about something, but for the wrong reasons. I believe in God, as do you, but in all the posts I have seen of yours (several dozen to possibly >100 by now), I cannot recall any solid reasoning to support what you believe. The contradictions in your posts are innumerable.
Thanks for the advice. Isn't this a little like (even though it is exactly opposite of) a lot of science theory? For example, there are all kinds of correct statistics and thinking about aspects that make up Big Bang Theory. Yet the conclusion that the Big Bang existed in any of the major views of its Theory is completely false.
I appreciate that you believe in God... at least, that you recognize that you believe in God. Everyone believes in God. And at the expense of potentially having wrong reasons for what I'm about to say, the reason I believe that universal faith in God exists is partially because nobody knows for a fact anything that is going to happen even an instant into the future. We understand through experience that God is allowing and holding a reasonably stable universe in place. So, we have hope that the past moment indicates what the future moment will be like. We were strongly built into this understanding during our formation time in mommy's tummy, and during the first few years of life outside.
The strange part about believing in God is that you can believe in Him incorrectly, as can I. Demons believe in Him, but they know that they will be destroyed by Him. Something like this belief might make their faith in Him stronger at times. Yet, it never becomes saving faith.
When a human being comes to faith in the salvation that God promises to all who believe it - Jesus salvation - that person's faith is instantly bumped from standard faith into a faith that is wildly stronger. It is by no means the upper limit of strength that the faith can possibly achieve. But it is so extremely strong that it actually combines with God enough that the person will be saved in the resurrection.
The danger in this kind of faith is, once it has been attained by an individual, if it is lost somehow, there is virtually no chance that it can be regained again. However, if a person has question about whether or not he has lost his saving faith, he probably hasn't. God is faithful Himself. He won't let a person's saving faith fail easily.
Step outside sometime in the summertime, and sit down on a lawn chair. Take a half-hour off from the bustling business of the day to watch a leaf on a tree, swaying gracefully in the gentle summer breeze.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Nature can be beautiful... but also brutal. You can just as easily say go sit in the middle of an AIDS-ravaged village on a deckchair with a cocktail and bask in the glorious sun as you watch how graceful a parasite bores into the eye of a innocent human making them blind. Either god expertly designed the parasite or it evolved like every other thing on this planet. If he did invent it then he is not gracious but a psychopath. Regardless, if there was a god the bible would be an insult to his intelligence any way so I hope the wrong god you're not believing in is willing to have mercy or you're screwed
. 
You are right. And it would prove the same point. The point is that mankind barely understands much of anything that goes on in his universe. Man simply plods on through life, flowing with all the forces that move him along this way and that, but never beginning to understand the complexity involved in all of it.
If mankind understood a little of the complexity, he would understand that the devil, and mankind himself by following the devil rather than God, welcomed all the bad things that exist into nature and life. If he understood this, he would recognize how wonderful God is that he even gives man the bad things he asks for right along with the good man doesn't really deserve.
So, you assert that mankind can't understand the complexity, and then you, a man, goes on to tell us what understanding we are missing?
I advise you again to consider that you can be correct in your belief about something, but for the wrong reasons. I believe in God, as do you, but in all the posts I have seen of yours (several dozen to possibly >100 by now), I cannot recall any solid reasoning to support what you believe. The contradictions in your posts are innumerable.
Step outside sometime in the summertime, and sit down on a lawn chair. Take a half-hour off from the bustling business of the day to watch a leaf on a tree, swaying gracefully in the gentle summer breeze.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Nature can be beautiful... but also brutal. You can just as easily say go sit in the middle of an AIDS-ravaged village on a deckchair with a cocktail and bask in the glorious sun as you watch how graceful a parasite bores into the eye of a innocent human making them blind. Either god expertly designed the parasite or it evolved like every other thing on this planet. If he did invent it then he is not gracious but a psychopath. Regardless, if there was a god the bible would be an insult to his intelligence any way so I hope the wrong god you're not believing in is willing to have mercy or you're screwed
. You are right. And it would prove the same point. The point is that mankind barely understands much of anything that goes on in his universe. Man simply plods on through life, flowing with all the forces that move him along this way and that, but never beginning to understand the complexity involved in all of it.
If mankind understood a little of the complexity, he would understand that the devil, and mankind himself by following the devil rather than God, welcomed all the bad things that exist into nature and life. If he understood this, he would recognize how wonderful God is that he even gives man the bad things he asks for right along with the good man doesn't really deserve.
Step outside sometime in the summertime, and sit down on a lawn chair. Take a half-hour off from the bustling business of the day to watch a leaf on a tree, swaying gracefully in the gentle summer breeze.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Nature can be beautiful... but also brutal. You can just as easily say go sit in the middle of an AIDS-ravaged village on a deckchair with a cocktail and bask in the glorious sun as you watch how graceful a parasite bores into the eye of a innocent human making them blind. Either god expertly designed the parasite or it evolved like every other thing on this planet. If he did invent it then he is not gracious but a psychopath. Regardless, if there was a god the bible would be an insult to his intelligence any way so I hope the wrong god you're not believing in is willing to have mercy or you're screwed
. Other than that, there is a lot of propaganda hollering by a bunch of people who don't know anything at all, or who are out to deceive others for the sake of money.
Absolutely. I had a bunch of them knocking on my door about a week ago. As soon as the door was open religion started spewing out of their mouths. "You should be doing this. You should be doing that." Oh dear, they was quickly sent away.
The saddest part of all was they forced some boy (7 or 8 years old, their son I presumed) to wear a bowtie and come with them. Poor kid was totally brainwashed into oblivion.
That's right. Religious propaganda is almost as bad as science propaganda. The Bible is solid. Go there and learn how to be saved for everlasting life.
Ok. I'll give it a read, you never know.
I'm pretty busy so perhaps you could help me out, what bible shall I read? I don't want to waste time reading all the false ones for obvious reasons.
So can you tell me the true one so I can get stuck in straight away?
You still there BADecker? You keep telling me to read the bible, okay then, which one?
Learn Greek and Hebrew. Find a Jewish Rabbi, and ask him for the best Hebrew Old Testament version. For the New Testament, learn Greek, and check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Bible to find the most suitable direction you want to go.
EDIT: Do you really know how to read and write? Or do you simply dictate your posts to a friend who has the capability for inputting?
See you've avoided the question. The reason why is because you haven't the foggiest idea which is the true bible, same as everyone else.
Gotchya. See, you weren't even interested in reading a Bible, much less in finding out what it said.
I'm not interested in learning Greek or Hebrew.
So are you suggesting anyone that cannot read Greek or Hebrew has only ever read one of those false bibles?
Inhale. Exhale. Inhale. Exhale.
Assuming by the evidence that it seems that you can read and write English...
Get on over to the books section of a Walmart or Target, or find a local, standard book store, and pick up a copy. Call the bookstore, first, because some bookstores may not have them.
If you are an English reader as you seem to be, grab a modern English version, because an old English version is actually in a dialect that we don't use anymore.
If you want to check out the versions rather inexpensively, go to BibleGateway at https://www.biblegateway.com/, and check their dropdown menu near the right top of the page for available versions. Test them out. Find one that is to your "flavor," of your general "liking" for its structure. If you want, you can actually read the Bibles online at BibleGateway, so you don't have to purchase anything.
Other than that, there is a lot of propaganda hollering by a bunch of people who don't know anything at all, or who are out to deceive others for the sake of money.
Absolutely. I had a bunch of them knocking on my door about a week ago. As soon as the door was open religion started spewing out of their mouths. "You should be doing this. You should be doing that." Oh dear, they was quickly sent away.
The saddest part of all was they forced some boy (7 or 8 years old, their son I presumed) to wear a bowtie and come with them. Poor kid was totally brainwashed into oblivion.
That's right. Religious propaganda is almost as bad as science propaganda. The Bible is solid. Go there and learn how to be saved for everlasting life.
Ok. I'll give it a read, you never know.
I'm pretty busy so perhaps you could help me out, what bible shall I read? I don't want to waste time reading all the false ones for obvious reasons.
So can you tell me the true one so I can get stuck in straight away?
You still there BADecker? You keep telling me to read the bible, okay then, which one?
Learn Greek and Hebrew. Find a Jewish Rabbi, and ask him for the best Hebrew Old Testament version. For the New Testament, learn Greek, and check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Bible to find the most suitable direction you want to go.
EDIT: Do you really know how to read and write? Or do you simply dictate your posts to a friend who has the capability for inputting?
See you've avoided the question. The reason why is because you haven't the foggiest idea which is the true bible, same as everyone else.
Gotchya. See, you weren't even interested in reading a Bible, much less in finding out what it said.
I'm not interested in learning Greek or Hebrew.
So are you suggesting anyone that cannot read Greek or Hebrew has only ever read one of those false bibles?
Other than that, there is a lot of propaganda hollering by a bunch of people who don't know anything at all, or who are out to deceive others for the sake of money.
Absolutely. I had a bunch of them knocking on my door about a week ago. As soon as the door was open religion started spewing out of their mouths. "You should be doing this. You should be doing that." Oh dear, they was quickly sent away.
The saddest part of all was they forced some boy (7 or 8 years old, their son I presumed) to wear a bowtie and come with them. Poor kid was totally brainwashed into oblivion.
That's right. Religious propaganda is almost as bad as science propaganda. The Bible is solid. Go there and learn how to be saved for everlasting life.
Ok. I'll give it a read, you never know.
I'm pretty busy so perhaps you could help me out, what bible shall I read? I don't want to waste time reading all the false ones for obvious reasons.
So can you tell me the true one so I can get stuck in straight away?
You still there BADecker? You keep telling me to read the bible, okay then, which one?
Learn Greek and Hebrew. Find a Jewish Rabbi, and ask him for the best Hebrew Old Testament version. For the New Testament, learn Greek, and check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Bible to find the most suitable direction you want to go.
EDIT: Do you really know how to read and write? Or do you simply dictate your posts to a friend who has the capability for inputting?
See you've avoided the question. The reason why is because you haven't the foggiest idea which is the true bible, same as everyone else.
Gotchya. See, you weren't even interested in reading a Bible, much less in finding out what it said.
Other than that, there is a lot of propaganda hollering by a bunch of people who don't know anything at all, or who are out to deceive others for the sake of money.
Absolutely. I had a bunch of them knocking on my door about a week ago. As soon as the door was open religion started spewing out of their mouths. "You should be doing this. You should be doing that." Oh dear, they was quickly sent away.
The saddest part of all was they forced some boy (7 or 8 years old, their son I presumed) to wear a bowtie and come with them. Poor kid was totally brainwashed into oblivion.
That's right. Religious propaganda is almost as bad as science propaganda. The Bible is solid. Go there and learn how to be saved for everlasting life.
Ok. I'll give it a read, you never know.
I'm pretty busy so perhaps you could help me out, what bible shall I read? I don't want to waste time reading all the false ones for obvious reasons.
So can you tell me the true one so I can get stuck in straight away?
You still there BADecker? You keep telling me to read the bible, okay then, which one?
Learn Greek and Hebrew. Find a Jewish Rabbi, and ask him for the best Hebrew Old Testament version. For the New Testament, learn Greek, and check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Bible to find the most suitable direction you want to go.
EDIT: Do you really know how to read and write? Or do you simply dictate your posts to a friend who has the capability for inputting?
See you've avoided the question. The reason why is because you haven't the foggiest idea which is the true bible, same as everyone else.
Other than that, there is a lot of propaganda hollering by a bunch of people who don't know anything at all, or who are out to deceive others for the sake of money.
Absolutely. I had a bunch of them knocking on my door about a week ago. As soon as the door was open religion started spewing out of their mouths. "You should be doing this. You should be doing that." Oh dear, they was quickly sent away.
The saddest part of all was they forced some boy (7 or 8 years old, their son I presumed) to wear a bowtie and come with them. Poor kid was totally brainwashed into oblivion.
That's right. Religious propaganda is almost as bad as science propaganda. The Bible is solid. Go there and learn how to be saved for everlasting life.
Ok. I'll give it a read, you never know.
I'm pretty busy so perhaps you could help me out, what bible shall I read? I don't want to waste time reading all the false ones for obvious reasons.
So can you tell me the true one so I can get stuck in straight away?
You still there BADecker? You keep telling me to read the bible, okay then, which one?
Learn Greek and Hebrew. Find a Jewish Rabbi, and ask him for the best Hebrew Old Testament version. For the New Testament, learn Greek, and check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Bible to find the most suitable direction you want to go.
EDIT: Do you really know how to read and write? Or do you simply dictate your posts to a friend who has the capability for inputting?
Other than that, there is a lot of propaganda hollering by a bunch of people who don't know anything at all, or who are out to deceive others for the sake of money.
Absolutely. I had a bunch of them knocking on my door about a week ago. As soon as the door was open religion started spewing out of their mouths. "You should be doing this. You should be doing that." Oh dear, they was quickly sent away.
The saddest part of all was they forced some boy (7 or 8 years old, their son I presumed) to wear a bowtie and come with them. Poor kid was totally brainwashed into oblivion.
That's right. Religious propaganda is almost as bad as science propaganda. The Bible is solid. Go there and learn how to be saved for everlasting life.
Ok. I'll give it a read, you never know.
I'm pretty busy so perhaps you could help me out, what bible shall I read? I don't want to waste time reading all the false ones for obvious reasons.
So can you tell me the true one so I can get stuck in straight away?
You still there BADecker? You keep telling me to read the bible, okay then, which one?
Step outside sometime in the summertime, and sit down on a lawn chair. Take a half-hour off from the bustling business of the day to watch a leaf on a tree, swaying gracefully in the gentle summer breeze.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
First off, it's impossible to see atoms with the naked eye...Secondly, what you're describing is tranquility, peace of mind, similar to meditation. It has nothing to do with 'God", but since it relieves you of stress to do such a thing, you liken it to God...Yet another fallacy. Everything you've described just now is taught through some forms of meditation like Transcendental, and it is science.
Well, thank you, darkota. This is as friendly as you have talked to me yet.
Yes, I know. It is the same for me. We think that we are finding out so much through science, and we are. Then our greatness pales into nothingness in the face of all the things there are to know, and all the things that we have close to no ability to track.
I have faith in God. But I really don't know Him as much as I would like to think. So, I have hope. I must have hope, just to keep from going crazy. 'Cause if He doesn't keep His promise of free eternal life for me after the resurrection He promises, there's no way I will ever be able to do it.
Step outside sometime in the summertime, and sit down on a lawn chair. Take a half-hour off from the bustling business of the day to watch a leaf on a tree, swaying gracefully in the gentle summer breeze.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
First off, it's impossible to see atoms with the naked eye...Secondly, what you're describing is tranquility, peace of mind, similar to meditation. It has nothing to do with 'God", but since it relieves you of stress to do such a thing, you liken it to God...Yet another fallacy. Everything you've described just now is taught through some forms of meditation like Transcendental, and it is science.
Step outside sometime in the summertime, and sit down on a lawn chair. Take a half-hour off from the bustling business of the day to watch a leaf on a tree, swaying gracefully in the gentle summer breeze.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Track every molecule of air that touches the leaf. Track where they each individually come from as they are swept along by the other molecules, all of which are being played upon by the energy of the sun. Track where they are going as they are deflected by the vanes in the leaf. Track the energy that moves the molecules, each one swinging to the vibration of the particular waves that touch it.
When you can do the above, you are starting to capture the control needed to maintain your life by your own understanding. Science isn't even close to something like this. And this is only the tiniest start of starts towards controlling your own life.
You better hope that God is a gracious God, and that He is willing to have mercy on you and hear your cry. 'Cause otherwise, you simply are going to die.
Other than that, there is a lot of propaganda hollering by a bunch of people who don't know anything at all, or who are out to deceive others for the sake of money.
Absolutely. I had a bunch of them knocking on my door about a week ago. As soon as the door was open religion started spewing out of their mouths. "You should be doing this. You should be doing that." Oh dear, they was quickly sent away.
The saddest part of all was they forced some boy (7 or 8 years old, their son I presumed) to wear a bowtie and come with them. Poor kid was totally brainwashed into oblivion.
That's right. Religious propaganda is almost as bad as science propaganda. The Bible is solid. Go there and learn how to be saved for everlasting life.
Ok. I'll give it a read, you never know.
I'm pretty busy so perhaps you could help me out, what bible shall I read? I don't want to waste time reading all the false ones for obvious reasons.
So can you tell me the true one so I can get stuck in straight away?
Very interesting to me that BADecker asserts the integrity of his bible
and Promotes that book with eight points that Suggest it is the WORD of God--
But when I show BADecker that those points are more strongly supportive of Phoenix Journals
He does not address the issue at hand.
I wonder if Buffer Overflow will get his answer...
Those are dozens, if not hundreds of times that the bible has been edited and have things put it and taken out by humans, not by some god.
Or by the devil himself.
It seems that religions seek to simplify the world throughout false beliefs(Like how the church used to believe that earth was the center of the universe without any proof at all, but just to make things simple), instead of actually trying to understand it(like science does). Anything that is good=god, anything that is evil=the devil, to them. Seems simple, but clearly wrong. Even the bible itself has acts from god that today is seen as evil.
You are mistaken in this. People need simplification, at least as we are now. We don't have the IQ that can hold and compare multiple, complex ideas simultaneously.
As for the aggregation of scientific information, science is scratching the surface, and much of what people call science is based of if's and maybe's at its core.
Quite the contrary. My faith is stronger than ever, because I have been pushed into examining the evidences for my faith ever more strongly because of things written in this forum.
Set aside the ideas of belief and faith for a moment. Rather, look at only the evidences for the various religions including Atheism. The monotheistic view is strongest. The reason that it is strongest is, the Bible cannot exist according to probability, yet it does exist, in great numbers, in multitudes of translations. You can determining the odds of its existence by examining the way it came into existence along with the things that make it up, along with the traditions of the Hebrew people that it is truth. None of any of the other religions - not even atheism - can match the religion of the Bible in this way.
Whatever assumption(s) you are talking about above, let's continue making them. Why would I suggest this? Because the more there is an assumption, the more there has to be faith to believe in it. And the only way God accepts us is through faith. Let's hope any Atheists will suddenly make the jump to faith in God - for Whom there is way more evidence than no God - taking the strength of their faith with them.
What? The bible can't exist according to probability? That entire statement is wrong. I don't understand how you could love and worship a book that is full of horrors, violence, death, and servitude. The entire bible as we know it today was changed up by the Romans, so it was not written by God as some people believe.
The contents of the Bible, the history of how it was written, its unity, the theme of salvation for mankind, the traditions of the Hebrews/Israel/the Jews regarding it, the way it depicts mankind, the science in it, the wisdom in it, the love in it, and the way that this all is brought together is way beyond probability regarding that such a book like this could exist.
Such things as "horrors, violence, death, and servitude" are found throughout the world today. They are depicted in many books, in movies, and throughout life. What sheltered life are you living in?
The late rabbi, Uri Harel, of Phoenix, Arizona, did many great studies on the Old Testament in its ancient Hebrew. The Old Testament canon is essentially the same as it has always been. One of the things that Rabbi Harel found is that there are only 12 small "spots" in the Old Testament where we are unclear as to the actual text. These 12 places change nothing regarding the meaning of the Old Testament.
The Romans did us a blessing by setting the New Testament in stone, so to speak. By directing the study and comparison of both O.T. and N.T., especially at the council of Nicea, they were able to do something that the Church wasn't willing. They were able to get rid of a whole lot of N.T. writings that at the time were contrary to the good sense of the O.T., and contradicted the pure message of the N.T. as well.
Perhaps the Romans went too far. Perhaps their scholars should have included a few books in the N.T. that they left out. However, those books wouldn't have added anything to the message, anyway.
The whole Bible was written, and exists, so that people can be saved. As usual, people don't want to be saved, but would rather go on groping throughout their lives, until it is gone, and only on their deathbeds do they start to recognize that they are lost, if then.
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Religions are spread primarily through family aka brainwashing, unlike science which changes over time as we learn and develop more, religion stays the same, which is why the bible contains so many horrors and atrocities commanded by God, such as raping women and killing priests for drinking wine(Fit to govern people with fear at a time when most were uneducated).
When science gets to the point that we understand more than just a smattering of what exists, we will easily see God in it. The problem lies in the fact that, just like now, the scientists will try to cover up the knowledge of God Whom they are finding more and more in science right now. This is being done today, in the fact that scientists often are unwilling to even allow for the existence of God, though more and more they see through their investigation, the technology of God built right into the universe. Rather, they cover Him up as much as they can.
Since the horrors and atrocities of life are happening all the time right now, if God happens to use some of it to get it to stop, He is righteous in doing it this way. Would you rather that Hitler had won WWII? We needed to fight fire with fire. God could up and destroy us for our wickedness and because of His righteousness. But He would rather save as many of us as He can.
If it weren't for God's laws written in our hearts and consciences, we ALL would be off committing worse crimes than God would ever think of. Thank God He is stopping the crimes, even though many of us don't recognize that it is He that is stopping them.
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Also, a popular argument for theists is that since we know the difference between right and wrong, then God must exist right? Nope, that's wrong also. The concepts of "Right" and "Wrong" are inborn, biological. Mammals have it and so do we, it's simply a way to prevent species from killing each other off, and form bonds of trust in social settings.
Sometimes science fiction writers include real science in their fiction stories. Sometimes science fiction readers believe completely fictitious stories as truth. To a rather ignorant person who happens to be looking on from the outside, it can be very difficult to determine what is truth.
So far, all of the science info that we have, that seems to disprove the existence of God, or that seems to disprove the truth of the Bible, can be shown to disprove the science itself, showing that such science is, or might be, fiction.
Other than that, there is a lot of propaganda hollering by a bunch of people who don't know anything at all, or who are out to deceive others for the sake of money.
Ok, so I've read everything you typed there. I'm done. Everything you have typed is 100% Bullcrap. I don't mean to act "mean", but I'm sorry sir, you seem extremely, extremely delusional, or idk...Let's pick apart what you said..shall we? Everything in blue is what you said, which doesn't make any sense, and everything in black beneath it is my response:
1) Since the horrors and atrocities of life are happening all the time right now, if God happens to use some of it to get it to stop, He is righteous in doing it this way. Would you rather that Hitler had won WWII? We needed to fight fire with fire. God could up and destroy us for our wickedness and because of His righteousness. But He would rather save as many of us as He can.
--- That is entirely wrong, do you really think God would come up and "destroy us for our wickedness". Do you know just how many Jews Adolf Hitler killed? Between five and six million Jews were killed by Hitler. I'm sure they were praying their asses off to get saved by "God", but he never came. Oh and since then, other major genocides have occurred such as the Armenian genocide, the Rwandan genocide, in which hundreds of thousand have been slaughtered. So exactly how is this what you said, making any sense, "God could up and destroy us for our wickedness and because of His righteousness. But He would rather save as many of us as He can" ?? Your "God" has done nothing, absolutely nothing to help with any of the millions of people dying since just the 20th century from wars, famine, starvation, give them freedom from communism(China). Oh well, there they go. That's how your "god" works, or a better explanation, he doesn't exist. In fact, I remember reading a quote from a former priest who said he gave up on Christianity after having visited Rwanda during the genocide, and seeing the thousands up thousands of dead people slaughtered in cold blood, and no "God" there to save them..
2) If it weren't for God's laws written in our hearts and consciences, we ALL would be off committing worse crimes than God would ever think of. Thank God He is stopping the crimes, even though many of us don't recognize that it is He that is stopping them.
--- As I've said earlier, God himself in the Old Testament has given his "people" some of the cruelest rules found in the "holy books" which promote the killing of innocent people, the raping of women, and so on, all commanded by your god, you can verify this yourself if you have a bible with you: http:// [url]http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/ot_list.html/[/.url] Also, a lot of those who are religious seem to believe that it's this "God" who's giving us the ability to know "right" from "wrong". That's entirely untrue, as humans(mammals) are inborn with the ability to differentiate between acts of cruelty and love in the species, this is to ensure survival or the species, unlike what is found in reptiles or insects.
3) The Romans did us a blessing by setting the New Testament in stone, so to speak. By directing the study and comparison of both O.T. and N.T., especially at the council of Nicea, they were able to do something that the Church wasn't willing. They were able to get rid of a whole lot of N.T. writings that at the time were contrary to the good sense of the O.T., and contradicted the pure message of the N.T. as well.
---This is also Wrong. The bible has been changed not by just the romans, but by the corrupt catholic church as well, along by monarchs of England. Those are dozens, if not hundreds of times that the bible has been edited and have things put it and taken out by humans, not by some god.
So there you go BADecker, I'm sorry but after I've actually taken the time to read what you post, I can see that 100% of the things you've said make no sense. You seem like you are believing entirely with Blind Faith. It's sad really, but then again, it's your choice.
Well, I'm a bit sad that you simply wish to deny God. However, I am happy at the same time... happy that you are making a solid stance. God can work with unsaved people who make a strong stance, in whatever ways that it will take to give them the best opportunity to turn and be saved.
Sorry that I couldn't offer you enough info to show you the truth of the love of God. But this forum isn't really for that kind of depth. Even Jesus lost Judas. So, should I expect more? He will forgive me for my weaknesses in this.
Best wishes to you as a fellow forum commenter. And good hopes to you for your conversion to salvation.
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