Scientific proof that God exists? - page 477.

TabascoRaremaster

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Quote from: beaknuke on September 21, 2014, 01:18:54 PM

Quote

Genesis - Start of Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Really?

So someone was around at the beginning before dinosaurs to record this or just pure speculation?

He was there and made people write His-story down.
Maybe we go back in time.
Or,every moment does always exist. Undecided

X7

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Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

Quote from: Gimpeline on September 21, 2014, 12:57:30 PM

Quote from: Cortex7 on September 21, 2014, 11:44:26 AM

Quote from: beaknuke on September 21, 2014, 10:56:58 AM

I do believe Jesus the carpenter existed without a doubt and perhaps his adventures was a great story to be told to the younger generation to give hope!

What message of hope is there with Jesus, the way I see it the tale is this:

Quote

Once upon a time a really nice man existed who wanted equality for all.

At 30 odd years old he pissed off the establishment so much that he was nailed to a cross until dead.

But then he magically cam back to life (uhh yeah right, that's believable) the end.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but if you tell that tale to a young kid then that kid will probably think "Holy carp! I don't want to be nailed to a cross"

Wearing a cross around your neck is akin to a JFK fan wearing a sniper rifle on a pendant. But churches take it even further, their image of christ is his actuall body hanging on the cross and you can see the nails through the wrists and a gaping wound on his side. Often in true technicolor, I've seen some statues where the artist has gone to great lengths to make the blood look wet using a high gloss varnish atop the dark red paint, gory stuff!

The message is: Let that be a reminder to you young man... you start acting all hippy like and that could be YOU nailed to that cross, just pay your tithes and keep yourself to yourself. Oh and cut your damned hair you hippy!

This whole Jesus thing is clearly a citizen control tool, CLEARLY!

Religions themselves are just cults, each one in the evolutionary game of cult survival.

Fuck religion, it does not care for you, it will gladly murder you for the survival of the cult, so I say it again... fuck it, it's time humanity left the dark ages, the stars await us....

A magic man in the sky looks down on earth and dont like what people do.
So he comes up with a plan.
He sends himself down as his alter ego, have himself tortured and killed so he can forgive himself, and *poof* everything is ok.
Yup its a ridiculous story that belongs in the dark ages

Don't let the human understanding and manipulation of a creator skew the entire possibility for you, there is a perfect order which cannot be overlooked in the universe.

beaknuke

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Merit: 250

Quote

Genesis - Start of Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Really?

So someone was around at the beginning before dinosaurs to record this or just pure speculation?

TabascoRaremaster

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Activity: 12

Merit: 0

In the beginning there was the word...
...and the word was with god...
...and the word wás GOD.

As a kid I did not believe in this god I was thought in school I had to believe in.
Although I was intensely enjoying the miracle of creation.
Told my teacher,that became furious about it, that I would refuse to be a believer,
untill some one could convince me that this god really exists.
Never before and after I made a man as angry as he was.
I simply hád to be a believer was his opinion.

Finally did say; If God has the slightest interest in me believing in Him,
He will have to make me convinced me by Himself.

And yes,He did.

Gimpeline

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Quote from: Cortex7 on September 21, 2014, 11:44:26 AM

Quote from: beaknuke on September 21, 2014, 10:56:58 AM

I do believe Jesus the carpenter existed without a doubt and perhaps his adventures was a great story to be told to the younger generation to give hope!

What message of hope is there with Jesus, the way I see it the tale is this:

Quote

Once upon a time a really nice man existed who wanted equality for all.

At 30 odd years old he pissed off the establishment so much that he was nailed to a cross until dead.

But then he magically cam back to life (uhh yeah right, that's believable) the end.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but if you tell that tale to a young kid then that kid will probably think "Holy carp! I don't want to be nailed to a cross"

Wearing a cross around your neck is akin to a JFK fan wearing a sniper rifle on a pendant. But churches take it even further, their image of christ is his actuall body hanging on the cross and you can see the nails through the wrists and a gaping wound on his side. Often in true technicolor, I've seen some statues where the artist has gone to great lengths to make the blood look wet using a high gloss varnish atop the dark red paint, gory stuff!

The message is: Let that be a reminder to you young man... you start acting all hippy like and that could be YOU nailed to that cross, just pay your tithes and keep yourself to yourself. Oh and cut your damned hair you hippy!

This whole Jesus thing is clearly a citizen control tool, CLEARLY!

Religions themselves are just cults, each one in the evolutionary game of cult survival.

Fuck religion, it does not care for you, it will gladly murder you for the survival of the cult, so I say it again... fuck it, it's time humanity left the dark ages, the stars await us....

A magic man in the sky looks down on earth and dont like what people do.
So he comes up with a plan.
He sends himself down as his alter ego, have himself tortured and killed so he can forgive himself, and *poof* everything is ok.
Yup its a ridiculous story that belongs in the dark ages

Cortex7

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Activity: 238

Merit: 106

Quote from: beaknuke on September 21, 2014, 10:56:58 AM

I do believe Jesus the carpenter existed without a doubt and perhaps his adventures was a great story to be told to the younger generation to give hope!

What message of hope is there with Jesus, the way I see it the tale is this:

Quote

Once upon a time a really nice man existed who wanted equality for all.

At 30 odd years old he pissed off the establishment so much that he was nailed to a cross until dead.

But then he magically cam back to life (uhh yeah right, that's believable) the end.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but if you tell that tale to a young kid then that kid will probably think "Holy carp! I don't want to be nailed to a cross"

Wearing a cross around your neck is akin to a JFK fan wearing a sniper rifle on a pendant. But churches take it even further, their image of christ is his actuall body hanging on the cross and you can see the nails through the wrists and a gaping wound on his side. Often in true technicolor, I've seen some statues where the artist has gone to great lengths to make the blood look wet using a high gloss varnish atop the dark red paint, gory stuff!

The message is: Let that be a reminder to you young man... you start acting all hippy like and that could be YOU nailed to that cross, just pay your tithes and keep yourself to yourself. Oh and cut your damned hair you hippy!

This whole Jesus thing is clearly a citizen control tool, CLEARLY!

Religions themselves are just cults, each one in the evolutionary game of cult survival.

Fuck religion, it does not care for you, it will gladly murder you for the survival of the cult, so I say it again... fuck it, it's time humanity left the dark ages, the stars await us....

Cortex7

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 106

Quote from: beaknuke on September 21, 2014, 10:56:58 AM

...That so called Best-Seller the Bible that contain so much 'information' that needs to be read and understood, however it challenges general science so often and makes it hard to understand it as nothing but a book of fiction (as with its other various spinoff's)...

Reposting an image buried some pages back:

This is the bible, each red arc joins one passage to another if those passages contradict eachother.

As can be seen it is hardly a scientific work, if it is then it should be put on github to clean it up, i suspect if all contradictions and subjective arguments were removed then it would be reduced to nothing.

As it stands it's a work of fiction, and a poor one at that as it contradicts itself so much.

beaknuke

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Activity: 412

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The brain also is a good tool for manipulating stories and creating your own interpretation. That so called Best-Seller the Bible that contain so much 'information' that needs to be read and understood, however it challenges general science so often and makes it hard to understand it as nothing but a book of fiction (as with its other various spinoff's).

I don't think anybody here can defend God, you all claim to know this and that about him/her/it. I still think this is your brains creating all these vibrations to create your own image of the said famous stories that apparently has been told for centuries past on from one generation to the next, this second hand information will always be manipulated brainwashing those into following something that gives them a belonging.

I do believe Jesus the carpenter existed without a doubt and perhaps his adventures was a great story to be told to the younger generation to give hope!

But we all grow up don't we and then decide what to believe and possibly pass on to our children.

BADecker

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Quote from: Rassah on September 20, 2014, 11:32:39 PM

Quote from: BADecker on September 20, 2014, 09:20:16 PM

Death of soul means, in part, cessation of all vibration of existence.

What is vibration of existence? Are you just using fancywords?

I'm slowly coming to understand why some people don't understand about God.

If "fancywords" means something other than "fancy words," I don't know what it means. If "fancywords" means "fancy words," then I can at least understand that some folks don't know about the vibrational frequencies of bio-electricity in it's natural habitat... the human body.

The brain uses bio-electricity when people think. Although there are probably many other things that are not material, or scientifically measurable, or electronic, in a human being's thinking and identity, the vibration of the being, the soul, that makes everyone different from everyone else, is that person's vibration of existence.

I had though most people would recognize that meaning, sort of, automatically, since there is vibration in everything. But I guess not.

Und3rd0g

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Quote from: Rassah on September 20, 2014, 11:32:39 PM

Quote from: BADecker on September 20, 2014, 09:20:16 PM

Death of soul means, in part, cessation of all vibration of existence.

What is vibration of existence? Are you just using fancywords?

I am guessing "fancy words", LOL.

Rassah

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Quote from: BADecker on September 20, 2014, 09:20:16 PM

Death of soul means, in part, cessation of all vibration of existence.

What is vibration of existence? Are you just using fancywords?

bitkilo

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https://www.bitcoin.com/

I can't belive religion has infiltrated the bitcoin forum, religion has no place here, all is does is cause trouble.
People are free to belive anything they want and should not be persecuted for it but please keep it out of bitcoin.

BADecker

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Just Believe

This.

However, the Holy Spirit works a proper belief in the hearts of the people whose will is not so strong that they can resist Him. It is strength of will that keeps people who live in nations that don't have the Bible, from believing properly... although the Holy Spirit is attempting to work a proper faith in them, as well.

Thank God that we have the Bible.

BADecker

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Quote from: WesternMiningCo on September 20, 2014, 08:06:05 PM

If a single celled virus mutated into something more deadly and resiliant than a strain of it's predecessor, then it would have to reproduce through splitting from the newly designed cell.

If it reproduced.

Quote from: WesternMiningCo on September 20, 2014, 08:06:05 PM

This would create a new "creature."

Would produce death or weakness to the cell. Cells are powerful, but powerful in attempting to regain the perfection that they had. That's the reason life keeps on going. It is attempting to get back to the perfection that it once was. Will never make it. Death will keep on happening.

Quote from: WesternMiningCo on September 20, 2014, 08:06:05 PM

Is that proof that some god somewhere has made that happen? Of course not. It simply means that the cell naturally needed to evolve and adapt to it's envoronment and did so.

Having a "need" is more like "being designed to have the need."

Quote from: WesternMiningCo on September 20, 2014, 08:06:05 PM

Thats just a microcosm of what happens with multi-celled organisms over time.

As I said above, in this post.

Quote from: WesternMiningCo on September 20, 2014, 08:06:05 PM

Humans still have appendixes which perform no real function for us today, but they were useful for something at one point in our evolution.

Actually, the Chinese found out ages ago that the appendix produces a slime that covers the stool so that the stool doesn't harm the colon wall as it passes.

Some harmonic studies that compare plants with animals suggest that the vibratory rates of the appendix match those of plants that propagate through "appendages," like strawberries and some vines. Perhaps before the fall into sin, people would have propagated like this.

Quote from: WesternMiningCo on September 20, 2014, 08:06:05 PM

Some god isn't just twitching is nose and making things happen. Things happen for scientific reasons.

This is absolutely correct. God is way more scientific - from the currently evolved common meaning of "science," not the dictionary definition - than man is. Yet, from man's "dictionary science" meaning, God has made the soul of man so strong that He does examine the heart to see exactly what kind of faith exists there, person to person.

BADecker

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Quote from: username18333 on September 20, 2014, 01:31:53 AM

What matter is coming to dead?

Dead is has two parts.
1. death of body.
2. Death of soul.

Death of body may mean little. It may mean to simply stop working/living in this life.

Death of soul means, in part, cessation of all vibration of existence. This will take an eternity, because that is how long the soul will exist. This death is continual dying.

In God's realm, this will have an ending, a finishing, because God's realm exists with eternity and beyond eternity as well. But in the realms in which man exists, there will be no ending of this death. We cannot understand it from God's point of view, because we are not God, Himself. We will only feel it and experience it from man's point of view, because we are people.

God has worked to save people from the death, both of body, and of soul. That is what the story of Jesus is all about. Accept Jesus, be resurrected to eternal life with God, not eternal death away from God.

Much of this is beyond our clear understanding in this life. But it will happen to all of us something like this. Perhaps we will have a clearer understanding in the resurrection. But then it will be too late to change.

WesternMiningCo

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If a single celled virus mutated into something more deadly and resiliant than a strain of it's predecessor, then it would have to reproduce through splitting from the newly designed cell. This would create a new "creature." Is that proof that some god somewhere has made that happen? Of course not. It simply means that the cell naturally needed to evolve and adapt to it's envoronment and did so. Thats just a microcosm of what happens with multi-celled organisms over time. Humans still have appendixes which perform no real function for us today, but they were useful for something at one point in our evolution. Some god isn't just twitching is nose and making things happen. Things happen for scientific reasons.

Rassah

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Quote from: BitChick on September 19, 2014, 09:31:55 AM

They have not observed the big bang have they? But they believe it as fact, when indeed it isn't a proven fact. It is even taught as a fact to students today in many schools and that, to me, is a travesty. It needs to be taught as it really is, a theory!

Didn't we already explain in another thread a long time ago that a scientific theory is tantamount to a fact, because it is based on observable evidence and fact? You are thinking of the word "hypothesis," which is where someone just says, "I think this is how it is." A scientific theory is "this is how I observed things to be, and this is the simplest explanation." Like the earth rotating around the sun is a scientific theory (heliocentric theory) based on our observations. We observed how things move around in the sky, and sent satellites to space to verify observations, and the theory of "earth is rotating around the sun" is the simplest explanation we have for what we have seen. Keep in mind that we have never actually went to the sun and watched the earth rotate around from there just to be sure. We never needed to. Likewise with big bang, we can observe the universe expanding from a point, and can see background radiation far away in space that fits the simplest explanation of "everything came from one point." If you want to add your own evidence of a creator, you have to actually present the visible (or at least testable) evidence, not just something you think is true.

username18333

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Knowledge could but approximate existence.

Quote from: BitChick on September 20, 2014, 01:29:08 AM

Quote from: username18333 on September 20, 2014, 01:21:01 AM

Quote from: BitChick on September 20, 2014, 01:08:58 AM

Quote from: username18333 on September 20, 2014, 12:53:03 AM

Quote from: BitChick on September 20, 2014, 12:18:27 AM

God judges the heart. I personally believe that there will be many people of different faiths that go to heaven, but only after they see Jesus for who He really is in the afterlife. Those with sincere and pure hearts that really seek God and want to do what is right, he knows them and God will provide a way for them. I personally think the English translation of scripture has done huge harm in translating "sheol" or "the grave" into "Hell." There are more places talked about in the afterlife than simply heaven and hell. There is sheol, hades, death, the grave, and then the final punishment is the lake of eternal fire (what we consider hell.) There is a misconception that it is totally black and white when it comes to these things. You accept Jesus here on earth and go to heaven or don't accept, or never even get a chance to hear about Jesus and you go to hell, is the common teaching. This doesn't sit right with most people that are not Christians (and some that are) because we know it is unfair. Why would we want to serve a God that was unfair? But because God puts the sense of fairness and justice in our hearts to begin with, this should cause us to sit back and question this.

Here is the issue. The Bible says that there is only one way to the Father and it is through Jesus Christ and that there is no other name in which to be saved. That is very black and white in scripture. But I believe that there will be a chance, after death, for people to accept or reject Jesus. This is not a common belief in the church at all. I guess the Catholic have a sort of "purgatory" that they believe in. The only thing is that I am not sure if our prayers here on earth will have an affect on souls there waiting. But I digress. The Bible says that Jesus holds the keys to death and the grave. While he was in the grave for 3 days, my personal belief is that he went to Sheol and visited the souls there in waiting. (I believe it will be people of all time past and future) People there had a choice, just like here, to accept or reject him. Perhaps those that lived lives of love and compassion were more apt to accept? Maybe those that rejected God outright already made their choice and do not get that choice? There is a story about Lazarus and rich man in scripture that makes it seem like there might not be a choice for some that live selfish lives and reject God. The Bible does say, "He that denies me on earth I will deny in heaven" so I think that there might be no second chances for some that have already made up their minds.

I have considered blogging about this at some point. It really has changed my view of how I see things. There are some wonderful people that are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc. . . that really seek to love others. I know that God would be pleased with this. However, as fallen people in a sinful world we cannot earn our salvation, even if we are extremely "good people." We will never be good enough on our own (because we all have sinned) and we all need Jesus. Knowing that they might not fully understand this, because of the fact that they have never heard of Jesus, or been taught about Him, but will eventually see the truth if they have a pure heart, if not in this life in the after life, seems to be more in the true character of God that I read about in the Bible. Besides, the great men of faith and all of the people that lived during the time of the Old Testament (before Jesus was even born) had not heard of Jesus yet. They would have needed to accept or reject Him at some point in time. This is why the thought of people having a chance to accept Jesus after death actually is not in contradiction to the Bible.

How does one come by "right?"

Not sure I understand your question. Are you commenting on how I said that God will look at their hearts and see if people want to do what is "right?"

God's law is the truth and what is "right." In a way, our conscience is what can often give us a sense of right and wrong as well.

But if you were to ask me to summarize what is "right" in a short sentence it would be to "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" This is the greatest commandment is it not?

No, God's law is his truth; "the" truth is whichever arbitrary truth one prefixes with "the."

If there is truth, it is truth regardless of if it is "his" "yours" or "mine." Truth is truth.

Most people do not believe in absolute truth anymore though. It is all relative on what feels right to them and they have their own personal "truth." This really isn't truth though.

There is a way that seems "right" to a man but in the end it leads to death. I think that there will be many people that do what they think is right but it really isn't. But God can see who really seeks Him in Spirit and in truth. This goes for all religions. Many people who claim to be Christians really don't seek God with a pure heart. The Bible even warns that there will be many that get to the afterlife and say, "I did all these things in Your name" and then God will say, "Depart from me. I never knew you."

What matter is coming to dead?

BitChick

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Quote from: username18333 on September 20, 2014, 01:21:01 AM

Quote from: BitChick on September 20, 2014, 01:08:58 AM

Quote from: username18333 on September 20, 2014, 12:53:03 AM

Quote from: BitChick on September 20, 2014, 12:18:27 AM

God judges the heart. I personally believe that there will be many people of different faiths that go to heaven, but only after they see Jesus for who He really is in the afterlife. Those with sincere and pure hearts that really seek God and want to do what is right, he knows them and God will provide a way for them. I personally think the English translation of scripture has done huge harm in translating "sheol" or "the grave" into "Hell." There are more places talked about in the afterlife than simply heaven and hell. There is sheol, hades, death, the grave, and then the final punishment is the lake of eternal fire (what we consider hell.) There is a misconception that it is totally black and white when it comes to these things. You accept Jesus here on earth and go to heaven or don't accept, or never even get a chance to hear about Jesus and you go to hell, is the common teaching. This doesn't sit right with most people that are not Christians (and some that are) because we know it is unfair. Why would we want to serve a God that was unfair? But because God puts the sense of fairness and justice in our hearts to begin with, this should cause us to sit back and question this.

Here is the issue. The Bible says that there is only one way to the Father and it is through Jesus Christ and that there is no other name in which to be saved. That is very black and white in scripture. But I believe that there will be a chance, after death, for people to accept or reject Jesus. This is not a common belief in the church at all. I guess the Catholic have a sort of "purgatory" that they believe in. The only thing is that I am not sure if our prayers here on earth will have an affect on souls there waiting. But I digress. The Bible says that Jesus holds the keys to death and the grave. While he was in the grave for 3 days, my personal belief is that he went to Sheol and visited the souls there in waiting. (I believe it will be people of all time past and future) People there had a choice, just like here, to accept or reject him. Perhaps those that lived lives of love and compassion were more apt to accept? Maybe those that rejected God outright already made their choice and do not get that choice? There is a story about Lazarus and rich man in scripture that makes it seem like there might not be a choice for some that live selfish lives and reject God. The Bible does say, "He that denies me on earth I will deny in heaven" so I think that there might be no second chances for some that have already made up their minds.

I have considered blogging about this at some point. It really has changed my view of how I see things. There are some wonderful people that are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc. . . that really seek to love others. I know that God would be pleased with this. However, as fallen people in a sinful world we cannot earn our salvation, even if we are extremely "good people." We will never be good enough on our own (because we all have sinned) and we all need Jesus. Knowing that they might not fully understand this, because of the fact that they have never heard of Jesus, or been taught about Him, but will eventually see the truth if they have a pure heart, if not in this life in the after life, seems to be more in the true character of God that I read about in the Bible. Besides, the great men of faith and all of the people that lived during the time of the Old Testament (before Jesus was even born) had not heard of Jesus yet. They would have needed to accept or reject Him at some point in time. This is why the thought of people having a chance to accept Jesus after death actually is not in contradiction to the Bible.

How does one come by "right?"

Not sure I understand your question. Are you commenting on how I said that God will look at their hearts and see if people want to do what is "right?"

God's law is the truth and what is "right." In a way, our conscience is what can often give us a sense of right and wrong as well.

But if you were to ask me to summarize what is "right" in a short sentence it would be to "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" This is the greatest commandment is it not?

No, God's law is his truth; "the" truth is whichever arbitrary truth one prefixes with "the."

If there is truth, it is truth regardless of if it is "his" "yours" or "mine." Truth is truth.

Most people do not believe in absolute truth anymore though. It is all relative on what feels right to them and they have their own personal "truth." This really isn't truth though.

There is a way that seems "right" to a man but in the end it leads to death. I think that there will be many people that do what they think is right but it really isn't. But God can see who really seeks Him in Spirit and in truth. This goes for all religions. Many people who claim to be Christians really don't seek God with a pure heart. The Bible even warns that there will be many that get to the afterlife and say, "I did all these things in Your name" and then God will say, "Depart from me. I never knew you."

username18333

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Knowledge could but approximate existence.

Quote from: BitChick on September 20, 2014, 01:08:58 AM

Quote from: username18333 on September 20, 2014, 12:53:03 AM

Quote from: BitChick on September 20, 2014, 12:18:27 AM

God judges the heart. I personally believe that there will be many people of different faiths that go to heaven, but only after they see Jesus for who He really is in the afterlife. Those with sincere and pure hearts that really seek God and want to do what is right, he knows them and God will provide a way for them. I personally think the English translation of scripture has done huge harm in translating "sheol" or "the grave" into "Hell." There are more places talked about in the afterlife than simply heaven and hell. There is sheol, hades, death, the grave, and then the final punishment is the lake of eternal fire (what we consider hell.) There is a misconception that it is totally black and white when it comes to these things. You accept Jesus here on earth and go to heaven or don't accept, or never even get a chance to hear about Jesus and you go to hell, is the common teaching. This doesn't sit right with most people that are not Christians (and some that are) because we know it is unfair. Why would we want to serve a God that was unfair? But because God puts the sense of fairness and justice in our hearts to begin with, this should cause us to sit back and question this.

Here is the issue. The Bible says that there is only one way to the Father and it is through Jesus Christ and that there is no other name in which to be saved. That is very black and white in scripture. But I believe that there will be a chance, after death, for people to accept or reject Jesus. This is not a common belief in the church at all. I guess the Catholic have a sort of "purgatory" that they believe in. The only thing is that I am not sure if our prayers here on earth will have an affect on souls there waiting. But I digress. The Bible says that Jesus holds the keys to death and the grave. While he was in the grave for 3 days, my personal belief is that he went to Sheol and visited the souls there in waiting. (I believe it will be people of all time past and future) People there had a choice, just like here, to accept or reject him. Perhaps those that lived lives of love and compassion were more apt to accept? Maybe those that rejected God outright already made their choice and do not get that choice? There is a story about Lazarus and rich man in scripture that makes it seem like there might not be a choice for some that live selfish lives and reject God. The Bible does say, "He that denies me on earth I will deny in heaven" so I think that there might be no second chances for some that have already made up their minds.

I have considered blogging about this at some point. It really has changed my view of how I see things. There are some wonderful people that are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc. . . that really seek to love others. I know that God would be pleased with this. However, as fallen people in a sinful world we cannot earn our salvation, even if we are extremely "good people." We will never be good enough on our own (because we all have sinned) and we all need Jesus. Knowing that they might not fully understand this, because of the fact that they have never heard of Jesus, or been taught about Him, but will eventually see the truth if they have a pure heart, if not in this life in the after life, seems to be more in the true character of God that I read about in the Bible. Besides, the great men of faith and all of the people that lived during the time of the Old Testament (before Jesus was even born) had not heard of Jesus yet. They would have needed to accept or reject Him at some point in time. This is why the thought of people having a chance to accept Jesus after death actually is not in contradiction to the Bible.

How does one come by "right?"

Not sure I understand your question. Are you commenting on how I said that God will look at their hearts and see if people want to do what is "right?"

God's law is the truth and what is "right." In a way, our conscience is what can often give us a sense of right and wrong as well.

But if you were to ask me to summarize what is "right" in a short sentence it would be to "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" This is the greatest commandment is it not?

No, God's law is his truth; "the" truth is whichever arbitrary truth one prefixes with "the."

Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 477. (Read 845809 times)