Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 479. (Read 845654 times)

I'd be more than willing to argue any point within reason.. and of course, carriages could be thrown from any ship.. bet there were'nt an oldish bible.. cause God, if and when he shows himself, will probably kill all christians for claiming everything was cause o him. I mean, if you did sumat wrong and got away with it for infinity, you'd have to admit that that sooner or later, you will get caught, and no-where in the bible does it say that what god did was good, only that his creation was good, when in fact it was an act of pure evil.

I don't have time to comment on each item, and really it appears you wouldn't want a debate with me anyways. 

But for those that are interested, there is evidence of broken chariots on the bottom of the red sea out there.

Here are some links:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzb4ekyX1kc

http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/chariots-in-red-sea-irrefutable-evidence/

Well, it has to be said, that there has been so much written from the 'christian' perspective, that one should wonder how on earth we survived the last 2000 years. So a guy worked miracles, yet there is no proof of these miracles. Christians attribute everything they say, to god, despite having no actual proof of the sucker.. I mean, c'mon, what was the actual point of god being born as Jesus just to show you what I, God, as Jesus, can do.. did he leave any hints that we could part the red sea? NO. Miracles? Prove them. No-one can, period. For if the Red sea was parted, the debris in the water would also be cast with the water to either side of the gap the people of exodus would have used to travel through.. 2000 years later the evidence of the red sea being parted would be VERY visible today, considering there is a mountain of bones from animals who had no 'business' being at the part of the planet where they (apparently) are not indigenous, and thousands of years older than the parting of a sea.. this is bollox

What I think most christians CANT accept, is that every non-christian see's christianity's excuse for everything is blame it on god. How many christians are following that madman obama? All of them.. but he's a muslim no? So America, wake up, you are no longer a christian entity, you are a nation of muslim killers, which is why the only support you have for the bombing of syria is from their local neighbours.

Just when you think christianity rules the world, you realise you are, like all masons and jews, about to be hounded out of existance, just so we (the seekers) dont need to hear about miracles that are impossible to comprehend, never mind prove.

CHRISTIAN churches everywhere with locked doors (no wonder) sitting on pagan ley lines, or intersections, which in turn are best viewed as spiral's. The very reason churches have steeples is to bring this spiral closer to the etheric vehicle known as aurora borealis, which is in fact the MAGNETISM which in turn becomes akasa which flows to the nerves and tissues.. hence the micro/macro-cosm.

I think christians should stop debating the pro's and cons of YOUR RELIGION, and start providing what the op requested, scientific proof, meaning, NO FUCKIN BIBLE SHEITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We can get frustrated at thy way God has chosen to do things, or we can accept that He has chosen to do things they way He has and respond with gratitude for even caring about us. Who are we to say how God, the creator of the universe, should or should not have done something?  It really is all about humility.  It is said that one of the greatest sins is actually pride.  This is because our own pride is what keeps us from even humbly coming to God and accepting Him at all.

Yeah just like the dinosaurs died because we release to much greenhouse gases into the atmosphere

If God did not want to suffer for sins, he should not have deemed them such.

For someone that says they do not believe in God and are not angry at God, you seem pretty ticked to me.  Why be so angry if He really doesn't exist at all?

If we are discussing what is "unfair,"  isn't it unfair that Jesus, who was completely sinless and blameless, had to come to suffer for my sins?  I am the one that chose to sin but he paid the price for my sins.  Knowing that God, out of His great love for me, sent His only son to die for me?  That is unfair to God!  I should be paying the price for my own sins, but instead I am offered the greatest gift anyone could give to me, eternal life because of His love and the thing is that it is offered to everyone!  God is no respecter of persons. We are all welcome to His gift if we just accept it.

But on a side note, although all sin is sin, and any sin can keep us from God, I do think that there are greater punishments for some in eternity.  There are also said to be some rewards in eternity too.  The Bible isn't really clear on this though.  I would like to think that the verse that talks about anyone causing a little one to sin would be better off having a millstone tied around his neck and thrown into the depths of sea, would be showing a severe eternal punishment for that.  But my point really is that any sin, no matter how small we think it is, is enough to separate us from God.  However, God, out of His love for us, has provided a way back to Him.  The choice is ours though.  Accept or reject.  

Edit:  One more thing.  One of the main points in the book of Satan, is not to worship Satan, but to just give into one's own selfish and hedonistic desires. From wikipedia on "the book of Satan:"  The seven deadly sins are advocated, on the basis that they all lead to personal pleasure. He says that Satanism is a form of "controlled selfishness", in the sense that doing something to help another will in turn make one happy."   My point is that being selfish is one of the main doctrines in the book of Satan.  Satan does not expect or even want people to actually worship Him blatantly.  He wants them to worship themselves and even "good deeds" done for selfish reasons are a form of "controlled selfishness."  

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia. It might be telling to see that much of what you believe (and many on here) is totally in line with the Book of Satan:

All christian gods are demigods at best. The God of the Christians is the only true reality. 

you can see it from all existing catastrophic disaster event, and that's the sign of His

Which still doesn't make the purported god's nature better than my nature.

You condemn out of your nature (as christian gods so condemn).

But that makes their nature WORSE than the nature of the humans they claim to have created. Humans are more discerning and forgiving in their nature.

Christian gods condemn out of their nature (as you so condemn).

And that is why the Christian god is a petty asshole and a spoiled little bitch. If someone does some minor bad thing to me, like lies, steals some change, or breaks something of mine and doesn't tell me, it's bad and it sucks, but I can forgive and forget, and still be their friend after some period of being a bit upset with them. Unlike that asshole god, I don't "separate myself from them" for every minor insignificant thing. Also, if they do something really bad to me, as opposed to a minor harm, I actually have the intellectual capacity to differentiate the two and know how bad one is compared to the other. God treating everything equally, and making the worst punishment possible for any crime regardless now minor, makes him sound really really evil.

Actually, there's a website I have been reading recently that talks about life and punishments in North Korea. Really horrific stuff, especially with their WW2 style concentration camps http://freekorea.us/camps/ You should check it out. Your description of sin and god really reminded me of that, since the punishment for major crimes like theft and assault, and the punishment for minor crimes like thinking badly of Dear Leader or complaining about the lack of food, is punished equally, with being sent to one of their concentration camps (a real hell on earth) where people are constantly starving, forced to work all day, die constantly of all kinds of ailments or starvation, are beaten, tortured, and abused, and can even be shot for picking up chestnuts of the ground. All "sins" are punished equally with that hell.


Even if we don't acknowledge god or know or ever heard of him? Also this sounds like a "No True Scotsman" fallacy. But no, I have not seen anyone who actively proclaims to worship or follow Satan doing evil.


Your claim is that regardless of what the person believes, if they are doing good they are serving god, and if they are doing bad they are serving satan. That is false because people who don't know about or acknowledge either of those entities are not doing their actions to serve someone else. They are doing it to serve themselves, the person they are doing the action for, or some other person or entity. At most you could claim that they are doing what god or satan would want then to do, NOT that they are serving them by their actions. E.g. if I give money to a homeless person, I am serving the homeless person and my own feeling of empathy, NOT god, even if I may be doing what your god might want me to.


But then, once they die, even if god presents himself to them as undeniable proof, and they go, "Huh, you ARE real. Oops! Please forgive us for doubting your existence!" god still says "Nope! You should have believed in random crazy stories without any evidence! So now, despite you living very good lives as very good people, I will send you to a place where you will be tortured for eternity. Bye now!"


Because a lot of us work very hard to achieve those blessings ourselves. A farmer that spends months working the ground, growing seeds, fighting off insects and infections, watering plants during droughts and digging ditches to direct away downpoor floods, should thank his own hard work for the "blessing" of food on the table, not god.



Actually it's evolution and genetics, not god. We survive better as a species, and are "fittest" to survive when we work together in packs as social animals. Survival of the fittest means social packs and groups, not just individuals. And this empathy and care for others has helped us propagate our genes better than those who tried to be individual and didn't work together or care for each other. Same as a school of small fish can survive as a species much better than if they were floating around as individual food bites. Best evidence of this, BTW, is that with time we have learned to have even more compassion, understanding, and are more ethical, than the people who wrote the bible 2000+ years ago. Many things presented as moral and ethical in that book are considered abhorrent now. Even the way god acts.



It's still INCREDIBLY petty and monstrously cruel that your god judges the entirety of a person's existence not of whether they were a good person, but whether they believe in him without him giving them any evidence to.

"And [Jesus] was with God, and [Jesus] was God."

They all have different roles; it would seem theologians have largely determined that creation is one of God the Father.

Somebody's convention. A Christian is one who believes in the salvation that Jesus, the Christ, did on the cross... and the resurrection from the dead.

The Apostles' Creed isn't correct in the fact that it attributes the work of creation to the Father, whereas the Bible attributes the work of creation to the Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit (read the first few verses of Genesis for the Spirit).

The fact that no two people understand exactly the same thing about God doesn't change the nature of God. It only gives us the chance to compare notes to correct the understanding about God, in all of us.

There is one "God" for every christian, hence, "...christian gods..."

(As well, convention dictates that a christian is one who professes the Apostle's Creed.)

That's the point. There aren't any Christian gods. There is only one God. And that one God is the God that true Christians espouse. Of course, we could get into what is a true Christian, since the term "Christian" has come to mean many different things. For my purposes, I define "Christian" as one who believes in the Christ of the New Testament in the Bible, as He is talked about in the N.T., even though neither I nor anyone else understands everything about Him.

The more directly relevant assertion there is that what we observe is a portion of existence that is turned inward on its origin to so great a degree that it is rationally intelligible.

(Id est, christian gods, here, are not said to be so mighty that they can craft objects beyond their own might; however, such beings, by the aforementioned tendency, would indeed exist [as would the whole of paradox].)

Yes.

We see two things. We see entropy. Entropy suggests that everything will finally neutralize to the point of something that we can't understand... a balance where everything equals everything else... a point of absolutely no complexity.

We also see complexity that is great. So far, this complexity is far beyond man's understanding. But, we are trying to find out enough about it so that, maybe we can understand.

We see nothing that could produce the complexity that we see all over the place. Whatever could produce this complexity - since the complexity is machine-like - must be a powerful Maker. If Fundamental Tendency is the Machine-Maker of all this complexity, then Fundamental Tendency is God.

We don't understand much about the machine of nature. Much has already been lost to entropy. We might never be able to envision what it was like before the losses already gone to entropy. So how are we ever going to understand Fundamental Tendency God, or whatever God really is? Only one way. We need to look to see if God has revealed Himself to us.