Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 480. (Read 845654 times)
Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.
But first consider this. When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...
1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:
The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.
existence of GodThe Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.
And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4
Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:
It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.
proof of GodWater is a universal solvent. This property of water means that various chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5
Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.
Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.
Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.
Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6
The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.
existence of GodThe human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.
The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously.8 Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.
2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?
Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.
Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."9
Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."10
The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.
3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?
Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.
How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?
"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."11
Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."12
4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.
existence of GodAll instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!
Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.13
existence of GodWhy is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.
Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.
5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.
I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.
proof of GodI didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.
I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."
Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.
6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.
Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.
He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."14 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."15
What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.16
Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.
Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."17 This is God, in action.
Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."18
God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind Faith.
If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can.
This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]."19 If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen."
God views your relationship with him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in him, Jesus Christ said of us, "I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand."20
Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way.
But first consider this. When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...
1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:
The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.
existence of GodThe Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.
And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4
Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:
It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.
proof of GodWater is a universal solvent. This property of water means that various chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5
Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.
Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.
Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.
Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6
The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.
existence of GodThe human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.
The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously.8 Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.
2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?
Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.
Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."9
Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."10
The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.
3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?
Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.
How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?
"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."11
Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."12
4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.
existence of GodAll instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!
Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.13
existence of GodWhy is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.
Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.
5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.
I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.
proof of GodI didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.
I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."
Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.
6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.
Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.
He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."14 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."15
What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.16
Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.
Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."17 This is God, in action.
Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."18
God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind Faith.
If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can.
This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]."19 If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen."
God views your relationship with him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in him, Jesus Christ said of us, "I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand."20
Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way.
@Rassah, I guess we are back to our fun debates now. 
Do I think every sin is equally bad? Actually I do. I know that sounds totally crazy but in God's eyes a sin is a sin and any sin however "small" in our eyes, is enough to separate us from Him. Does that mean that the consequences for all sins are the same? No. This is where we, as humans, start grading them on a scale. Some sins do way more damage to ourselves and others, so in that way it seems that some sins are much worse. But in the big picture, all sin is what keeps us apart from God. This is why a person who was a super amazing good person and did everything right their entire lives still cannot earn their way to heaven- All have sinned and everyone needs forgiveness for that sin.
You haven't seen followers of Satan doing evil? Basically it is pretty simple. There is good and evil. God is good, He is love. If we are not for God, we are against God. Therefore, anything that is not for God is not good and therefore evil. All rapists, murderers, child abusers, lairs, thieves and so on are serving Satan when they make evil choices and decide to do these sinful choices. So anyone doing evil is serving Satan. On the flip side, are there people out there doing "good" and "loving" without knowing they are in reality unknowingly doing what God wants? Yes. And many of these same people also end up having very blessed lives because of that! God wants to give us all good gifts. Every good and perfect gift in our lives comes from Him, even if we don't realize it. Instead of thanking Him for it, many of us just ignore Him, are angry at Him, or even deny He is the one giving us all the blessings we have.
I believe the Spirit of God is present all around us. This is why throughout the world there are people that have a conscience and realize that some things are just wrong. There is a universal belief among most cultures that murder, abuse, adultery, stealing and lying is not a good thing to do and It doesn't matter what nationality, race or religion you are. You can see my other lengthy post about my not so common belief on heaven, hell and Sheol and how God looks at the heart. If a person truly wants to do what is right in their hearts God is fair and just and will give that person a chance to accept or reject Him I believe.
There is neither good nor evil but merely that entropy one has accepted. Do I think every sin is equally bad? Actually I do. I know that sounds totally crazy but in God's eyes a sin is a sin and any sin however "small" in our eyes, is enough to separate us from Him. Does that mean that the consequences for all sins are the same? No. This is where we, as humans, start grading them on a scale. Some sins do way more damage to ourselves and others, so in that way it seems that some sins are much worse. But in the big picture, all sin is what keeps us apart from God. This is why a person who was a super amazing good person and did everything right their entire lives still cannot earn their way to heaven- All have sinned and everyone needs forgiveness for that sin.
You haven't seen followers of Satan doing evil? Basically it is pretty simple. There is good and evil. God is good, He is love. If we are not for God, we are against God. Therefore, anything that is not for God is not good and therefore evil. All rapists, murderers, child abusers, lairs, thieves and so on are serving Satan when they make evil choices and decide to do these sinful choices. So anyone doing evil is serving Satan. On the flip side, are there people out there doing "good" and "loving" without knowing they are in reality unknowingly doing what God wants? Yes. And many of these same people also end up having very blessed lives because of that! God wants to give us all good gifts. Every good and perfect gift in our lives comes from Him, even if we don't realize it. Instead of thanking Him for it, many of us just ignore Him, are angry at Him, or even deny He is the one giving us all the blessings we have.
I believe the Spirit of God is present all around us. This is why throughout the world there are people that have a conscience and realize that some things are just wrong. There is a universal belief among most cultures that murder, abuse, adultery, stealing and lying is not a good thing to do and It doesn't matter what nationality, race or religion you are. You can see my other lengthy post about my not so common belief on heaven, hell and Sheol and how God looks at the heart. If a person truly wants to do what is right in their hearts God is fair and just and will give that person a chance to accept or reject Him I believe.
Rassah, you must have missed me with that long reply!
As for your comment about my thinking you are "horribly wretched sinner" if I was pointing a finger at you, I would just be pointing four back at myself!
Everyone in the world are "sinners"
As for your comment about my thinking you are "horribly wretched sinner" if I was pointing a finger at you, I would just be pointing four back at myself!
Everyone in the world are "sinners"Except nazis, who are pointing all five fingers at you
But seriously, saying "everyone is a sinner" makes it sound like all sin is equally bad. Obviously a white lie or a surprise party is not as bad of a sin as murdering someone.
...
@Rassah, I guess we are back to our fun debates now.
Do I think every sin is equally bad? Actually I do. I know that sounds totally crazy but in God's eyes a sin is a sin and any sin however "small" in our eyes, is enough to separate us from Him. Does that mean that the consequences for all sins are the same? No. This is where we, as humans, start grading them on a scale. Some sins do way more damage to ourselves and others, so in that way it seems that some sins are much worse. But in the big picture, all sin is what keeps us apart from God. This is why a person who was a super amazing good person and did everything right their entire lives still cannot earn their way to heaven- All have sinned and everyone needs forgiveness for that sin.
You haven't seen followers of Satan doing evil? Basically it is pretty simple. There is good and evil. God is good, He is love. If we are not for God, we are against God. Therefore, anything that is not for God is not good and therefore evil. All rapists, murderers, child abusers, lairs, thieves and so on are serving Satan when they make evil choices and decide to do these sinful choices. So anyone doing evil is serving Satan. On the flip side, are there people out there doing "good" and "loving" without knowing they are in reality unknowingly doing what God wants? Yes. And many of these same people also end up having very blessed lives because of that! God wants to give us all good gifts. Every good and perfect gift in our lives comes from Him, even if we don't realize it. Instead of thanking Him for it, many of us just ignore Him, are angry at Him, or even deny He is the one giving us all the blessings we have.
I believe the Spirit of God is present all around us. This is why throughout the world there are people that have a conscience and realize that some things are just wrong. There is a universal belief among most cultures that murder, abuse, adultery, stealing and lying is not a good thing to do and It doesn't matter what nationality, race or religion you are. You can see my other lengthy post about my not so common belief on heaven, hell and Sheol and how God looks at the heart. If a person truly wants to do what is right in their hearts God is fair and just and will give that person a chance to accept or reject Him I believe.
Do I think every sin is equally bad? Actually I do. I know that sounds totally crazy but in God's eyes a sin is a sin and any sin however "small" in our eyes, is enough to separate us from Him. Does that mean that the consequences for all sins are the same? No. This is where we, as humans, start grading them on a scale. Some sins do way more damage to ourselves and others, so in that way it seems that some sins are much worse. But in the big picture, all sin is what keeps us apart from God. This is why a person who was a super amazing good person and did everything right their entire lives still cannot earn their way to heaven- All have sinned and everyone needs forgiveness for that sin.
You haven't seen followers of Satan doing evil? Basically it is pretty simple. There is good and evil. God is good, He is love. If we are not for God, we are against God. Therefore, anything that is not for God is not good and therefore evil. All rapists, murderers, child abusers, lairs, thieves and so on are serving Satan when they make evil choices and decide to do these sinful choices. So anyone doing evil is serving Satan. On the flip side, are there people out there doing "good" and "loving" without knowing they are in reality unknowingly doing what God wants? Yes. And many of these same people also end up having very blessed lives because of that! God wants to give us all good gifts. Every good and perfect gift in our lives comes from Him, even if we don't realize it. Instead of thanking Him for it, many of us just ignore Him, are angry at Him, or even deny He is the one giving us all the blessings we have.
I believe the Spirit of God is present all around us. This is why throughout the world there are people that have a conscience and realize that some things are just wrong. There is a universal belief among most cultures that murder, abuse, adultery, stealing and lying is not a good thing to do and It doesn't matter what nationality, race or religion you are. You can see my other lengthy post about my not so common belief on heaven, hell and Sheol and how God looks at the heart. If a person truly wants to do what is right in their hearts God is fair and just and will give that person a chance to accept or reject Him I believe.
Rassah, you must have missed me with that long reply!
As for your comment about my thinking you are "horribly wretched sinner" if I was pointing a finger at you, I would just be pointing four back at myself! Everyone in the world are "sinners"
As for your comment about my thinking you are "horribly wretched sinner" if I was pointing a finger at you, I would just be pointing four back at myself!
Everyone in the world are "sinners"Except nazis, who are pointing all five fingers at you
But seriously, saying "everyone is a sinner" makes it sound like all sin is equally bad. Obviously a white lie or a surprise party is not as bad of a sin as murdering someone.
Your anger is justified, however, I think that righteous anger is misguided. Perhaps the true enemy is not God but Satan?
My anger is not at god or satan (since I don't believe in either of them) but at god's followers. I haven't seen followers of satan doing pretty much any evil recently (ever?).
As for my own sinfulness, the more I pray, read and really understand what sin is, the more I see I have so much more that needs to change in my heart.
What do you mean what sin "really" is? Harm and injustice is a fairly basic concept. I am not not sure hot it can be more twisted by religion.
I pray someday we will be eternal friends!
Well, I am working towards that goal by eating healthy, taking vitamins, monitoring my health, and saving up as much money as I could to make sure I can prolong my life (biologically or technically) whenever the opportunity arises. Sadly, I suspect the only thing you are doing is wishing
The Bible is a very valuable book, as well as other religious books, in understanding history and how the world thinks. Now, in many cases, it isn't discussed at all. It makes it harder for kids to even understand literature and world history because of that.
I sort of agree. Christians have been very forceful at pushing their religion, and the overreaction completely kicked that topic out of educational discussion, when it would have been much better if bible stories were still included in history classes as part of our human history, along with all the other historical records of that time, including ones that may or may not contradict biblical records. On the other hand, historical books and bible have very different connotations, the former being "this is what we believe happened based on this evidence," and the later being "this is the truth, and since all this history is true, everything else it lists must be true too." It would at the least be VERY tempting for christian history teachers to imply as such.
Of course, as a Christian, I believe that there are huge moral implications to not studying God's law. We are moving more towards a lawless society because of it and with that will come more negative consequences than good ones.
I think god's law is actually a major handicap to a good law based society. It teaches us that law MUST be established by authority, and must not be questioned. Even if you feel that the law may not be ethical. Especially since in many ways god himself is not ethical. I think it would be much better if we switched to understanding laws and ethics as being built from such axiomatic principles as the Non Agression Principle, respect for people's property and life, and understanding that your actions can and should have consequences imposed on you by those you may harm. That is way more effective than "Don't to this thing, because I said so, or else you'll be sent into this possibly imaginary place that I can't even prove exists." Concrete explanations of reasons and consequences are way better at governing human behavior than empty threats.
Which leads to the idea of a Godless world. A world without God's Spirit would not be a good one. The fruit of God's Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, kindness, goodness and self-control.
Can you explain why this "fruit" is dependent on god? What god mechanism causes people to experience love, joy, peace, etc, and why would it be gone if those people didn't know about god? Doesn't this also imply that all of India, China, and Japan, which are mostly not christian, don't have love, joy, peace, etc? (despite them obviously having all of those)
(This is the measure I use to really test to see if someone else is really a Christian or not BTW. If these fruit are not evident then chances are that they are either not really a Christian or not a very mature one.)
Which, again, would make a Hindu, a Budha, a Shinto, or an Atheist "really a Christian" in your test, making it a faulty test.
Unfortunately, the world is not moving in this direction. Like is says in Timothy 3: " There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. . . always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth."
Well that's good to hear, because that means we're nowhere near the last days. Most of those problems you mentioned are actually decreasing, not increasing. Most of the bigger world problems have recently been from ultra-nationalism and religious extremism (people believing in god TOO much), not from those things on the list. Except, what the heck does "always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth" mean? And doesn't the alternative imply "figuring out the truth, and stopping learning," which is the biggest problem of the "god did it" nonanswer?
At some point God will say "enough" and then He has warned He will remove His followers from earth (what is commonly referred to as the rapture) and then the world will get to really see what it is like without Him here. It is not going to be a pleasant time. 
So it will be like China or Japan? Sorry if I'm not being very nice. It's just that there are tons of places without belief in god, and your concerns about such an existence are a bit perplexing.
What matter is coming to dead?
Dead is has two parts.
1. death of body.
2. Death of soul.
Death of body may mean little. It may mean to simply stop working/living in this life.
Death of soul means, in part, cessation of all vibration of existence. This will take an eternity, because that is how long the soul will exist. This death is continual dying.
In God's realm, this will have an ending, a finishing, because God's realm exists with eternity and beyond eternity as well. But in the realms in which man exists, there will be no ending of this death. We cannot understand it from God's point of view, because we are not God, Himself. We will only feel it and experience it from man's point of view, because we are people.
God has worked to save people from the death, both of body, and of soul. That is what the story of Jesus is all about. Accept Jesus, be resurrected to eternal life with God, not eternal death away from God.
Much of this is beyond our clear understanding in this life. But it will happen to all of us something like this. Perhaps we will have a clearer understanding in the resurrection. But then it will be too late to change.
Insofar as I have seen, christian gods are ultimately pursued for the sake of continuing to exist in manners that may reasonably be termed "living." However, it seems one pursues these extensions out of an innate fear of ceasing to exist not reasoned determinations as to what ought transpire about oneself.
(Indeed, even your elucidation of death - being largely divorced from observation [and that little evidence you have, consisting of confirmation bias] - would seem hailed of that fear.)
Rassah, you must have missed me with that long reply!
As for your comment about my thinking you are "horribly wretched sinner" if I was pointing a finger at you, I would just be pointing four back at myself! Everyone in the world are "sinners" so that evens out the playing field there, doesn't it? For all I know, I might even have a more evil mind than you that God's Spirit is working tirelessly on. You seem to have a very compassionate heart from the things I have read, but also a righteous anger at the many injustices you have seen. Your anger is justified, however, I think that righteous anger is misguided. Perhaps the true enemy is not God but Satan? As for my own sinfulness, the more I pray, read and really understand what sin is, the more I see I have so much more that needs to change in my heart. It is a lifelong journey really. But one that I am not doing alone. I am like a tree being pruned constantly. All the crap (hate, jealousy, anger, lust, greed etc. . . ) is being cut off of me when I allow God's Spirit to work, and in allowing that I can be more compassionate and see things like God does. But would I like you to be saved? I would be lying if I said "no." How could I not? I pray someday we will be eternal friends! But I guess the "soft spot" is generally because I enjoy your honest candor, your intelligent mind and your willingness to even have discussions with me even though we have such different world views.
It would take a while to comment on each thing. I appreciate your responses to each one though!
First, I apologize for not giving you as much credit as I should have. You have always been amazingly open to discussions and even willing to hear other people's point of view so for me to say that you might prefer a world in which everyone thinks like you do was obviously not true. It really says a lot about you. Many are not so open minded. That doesn't mean that you agree with other view points of course.
I do agree, in someways, that children should make up their own minds about God. In reality, we all have to don't we? The church I grew up in would not even baptize children because they needed to make up their own minds about it. It needed to be their own personal decision and not one that was forced upon them. That said, I feel that we have gone the other direction in many cases and now many children do not even get the basic understanding of any religion at all. The Bible is a very valuable book, as well as other religious books, in understanding history and how the world thinks. Now, in many cases, it isn't discussed at all. It makes it harder for kids to even understand literature and world history because of that.
Of course, as a Christian, I believe that there are huge moral implications to not studying God's law. We are moving more towards a lawless society because of it and with that will come more negative consequences than good ones.
Which leads to the idea of a Godless world. A world without God's Spirit would not be a good one. The fruit of God's Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, kindness, goodness and self-control. These are fruit that are supposed to be evident in a true Christian's life. (This is the measure I use to really test to see if someone else is really a Christian or not BTW. If these fruit are not evident then chances are that they are either not really a Christian or not a very mature one.) Also, the way some supposed Christians are hateful towards others because of their lifestyle choices is wrong, and again, you are justified in your feelings about this but it is just Satan making a so called "Christian" be prideful and judgmental. But that said, the kind of world I want to live in is one that is filled with God's Spirit. Unfortunately, the world is not moving in this direction. Like is says in Timothy 3: " There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. . . always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth." At some point God will say "enough" and then He has warned He will remove His followers from earth (what is commonly referred to as the rapture) and then the world will get to really see what it is like without Him here. It is not going to be a pleasant time.
As for your comment about my thinking you are "horribly wretched sinner" if I was pointing a finger at you, I would just be pointing four back at myself!
Everyone in the world are "sinners" so that evens out the playing field there, doesn't it? For all I know, I might even have a more evil mind than you that God's Spirit is working tirelessly on. You seem to have a very compassionate heart from the things I have read, but also a righteous anger at the many injustices you have seen. Your anger is justified, however, I think that righteous anger is misguided. Perhaps the true enemy is not God but Satan? As for my own sinfulness, the more I pray, read and really understand what sin is, the more I see I have so much more that needs to change in my heart. It is a lifelong journey really. But one that I am not doing alone. I am like a tree being pruned constantly. All the crap (hate, jealousy, anger, lust, greed etc. . . ) is being cut off of me when I allow God's Spirit to work, and in allowing that I can be more compassionate and see things like God does. But would I like you to be saved? I would be lying if I said "no." How could I not? I pray someday we will be eternal friends! But I guess the "soft spot" is generally because I enjoy your honest candor, your intelligent mind and your willingness to even have discussions with me even though we have such different world views. It would take a while to comment on each thing. I appreciate your responses to each one though!
First, I apologize for not giving you as much credit as I should have. You have always been amazingly open to discussions and even willing to hear other people's point of view so for me to say that you might prefer a world in which everyone thinks like you do was obviously not true. It really says a lot about you. Many are not so open minded. That doesn't mean that you agree with other view points of course.
I do agree, in someways, that children should make up their own minds about God. In reality, we all have to don't we? The church I grew up in would not even baptize children because they needed to make up their own minds about it. It needed to be their own personal decision and not one that was forced upon them. That said, I feel that we have gone the other direction in many cases and now many children do not even get the basic understanding of any religion at all. The Bible is a very valuable book, as well as other religious books, in understanding history and how the world thinks. Now, in many cases, it isn't discussed at all. It makes it harder for kids to even understand literature and world history because of that.
Of course, as a Christian, I believe that there are huge moral implications to not studying God's law. We are moving more towards a lawless society because of it and with that will come more negative consequences than good ones.
Which leads to the idea of a Godless world. A world without God's Spirit would not be a good one. The fruit of God's Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, kindness, goodness and self-control. These are fruit that are supposed to be evident in a true Christian's life. (This is the measure I use to really test to see if someone else is really a Christian or not BTW. If these fruit are not evident then chances are that they are either not really a Christian or not a very mature one.) Also, the way some supposed Christians are hateful towards others because of their lifestyle choices is wrong, and again, you are justified in your feelings about this but it is just Satan making a so called "Christian" be prideful and judgmental. But that said, the kind of world I want to live in is one that is filled with God's Spirit. Unfortunately, the world is not moving in this direction. Like is says in Timothy 3: " There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. . . always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth." At some point God will say "enough" and then He has warned He will remove His followers from earth (what is commonly referred to as the rapture) and then the world will get to really see what it is like without Him here. It is not going to be a pleasant time.
Rassah, you know you have a soft spot in my heart for whatever reason.
Likewise. You're too nice! Though I feel a bit sad suspecting that maybe the only reason you have a soft spot for me is because you think I am a horribly wretched sinner and you hope to save me
You seem to think teaching the hypothesis of creation in schools would be a negative thing.
Actually I just think it would be a pointless thing. There is no evidence to support that hypothesis, no tests for kids to do in class, and no history of discoveries related to it to read about. The entire creation topic can just be covered in a single sentence: "some people believe things in nature are so complex that they think only god or an intelligent designer could have created them, and possibly the end of the world." End of chapter, end of lesson, end of day, see you tomorrow kids. Compared to the history of biologists who discovered various species and how they are related, the fossil records of animals and plans showing how similar they looked and how they seem to morph from one to the next in their appearance, the tons of vestigial organs in animals suggesting they lived in different environments before, and the DNA similarities in species, creation would seem like a passing thought, like "I think my house has trolls, because my socks sometimes disappear."
It seems that you really would prefer that the world would think like you do
Absolutely not! Keep in mind, though, that "God" and "No God" are not the only alternatives. Just on the "No God" side there are tons of conflicting theories and hypotheses about how the world works. Plenty to discuss and debate, even from real world evidence.
With that in mind, do you really think it is better if the world got to the point where it was completely "Godless?" A world that was free from any religion whatsoever? Where everyone had come to the agreement that there is no God so therefore He should not be talked about or discussed
I don't know. Maybe? We still talk about and discuss Egyptian gods. Mainly from the cool historical context. And we still talk about and discuss historical beliefs about bad vapors and bad blood from an old historical perspective, though it's great that we don't believe in those things any more, and don't bleed people to help them when they get sick. Not believing in made up stories, myths, and lies is generally a good thing, as it keeps you from doing stupid things (like wasting hours every week talking to yourself, or giving money to someone who is very likely just swindling you, or wasting days of your life worried about what some men may be doing with each other). On the other hand, getting beliefs and stupidly following them despite others telling you they are stupid is very necessary, because that's how we explore, invent, and discover new things. Almost everyone didn't believe Satoshi's idea would work. But there is still a difference between believing what may be possible and achievable, and believing what is.
or taught to children?
God is not taught to most children. I don't mind god being taught to children (which is what I had, where I was given literature on gods, history, Greek myths, bible, and books about other gods). What happens instead is that god is forced on children. They are told that this is how god is, and this is the truth, and they better believe all this, or else they will be sent to hell, where... and at this point the "teacher" usually goes into gory details explaining horrific brutalities to literally scare the kids into believing or else. I think the way god is taught to children is literal child abuse.
It seems to me that many atheists are convinced that this would become a utopia and a perfect world.
Not at all. Again, it's not a duality, where if it's not A it MUST be B. A godless world will not be a utopia or perfect. Hitler's Germany was an example of a religious world gone horribly wrong, and at the exact same time Stalin's Russia was an example of a godless world gone horribly wrong. This only goes to show that the presence or lack of god doesn't determine how good or ethical something is. It may make the world a bit better though, in the same way that us understanding that the bible should not be taken 100% literally has improved our world since the Dark Ages and made it better. Frankly, replacing any beliefs with actual knowledge makes things better.
My fear is if this is indeed your hearts desire
Why is it heartless? I truly believe that it will make the world better, will make people smarter, will stop wasting so much of humanity's time and resources, and will stop many conflicts and wars over who's god is right. Am I heartless for wanting a better, more just, and more peaceful world?
God does promise a day when that will happen and His Spirit will be removed from the earth.
Why would god want that? Or is he powerless to stop that?
If evil is present now, with death, hate, abuse, sickness and so on, it will only be much much worse then.
Note that much of the hate in the world stems from what people think their god commands them. Hate homosexuals because the bible condemns it. Hate the Jews because Allah commands them. Hate the Muslims and atheists because they are heathens. I would think without god at least half of the hate in the world would have no reason to exist. Also note that things like death and sickness are greatly improved upon every year, with no reliance on god. Lives are prolonged and illnesses cured with science, not with prayer. Imagine if all the time spent in churches and money given to corrupt priests could be used to help cure diseases. Why do you think death and sickness will suddenly start getting worse?
If God is love, and He is no longer present here, love will be gone. A world without love would not be the world I want to be in.
But if god is not love, and love is love, and love and compassion is something humans do, then love will not be gone. A world without love is easily remedied: just start to love and show compassion.
The brain uses bio-electricity when people think. Although there are probably many other things that are not material, or scientifically measurable, or electronic, in a human being's thinking and identity, the vibration of the being, the soul, that makes everyone different from everyone else, is that person's vibration of existence.
One, bioelectric signals in the brain are not vibrations. They are noise, with massive numbers of synapses turning on and of at different times and completely different intervals. It's about as much a "vibration" as a popular YouTube video being sent to a bunch of computers from a server. If you ever used a dialup modem (or listened to dubstep), you'd know electronic data is complete noise, not a vibration.
And two, basically the same thing happens in a computer network, and to some extent your computer's and phone's CPUs. Does that mean they have vibrations and "vibrations of existence" too?
He exist thats it thats all
They have not observed the big bang have they? But they believe it as fact, when indeed it isn't a proven fact. It is even taught as a fact to students today in many schools and that, to me, is a travesty. It needs to be taught as it really is, a theory!
Didn't we already explain in another thread a long time ago that a scientific theory is tantamount to a fact, because it is based on observable evidence and fact? You are thinking of the word "hypothesis," which is where someone just says, "I think this is how it is." A scientific theory is "this is how I observed things to be, and this is the simplest explanation." Like the earth rotating around the sun is a scientific theory (heliocentric theory) based on our observations. We observed how things move around in the sky, and sent satellites to space to verify observations, and the theory of "earth is rotating around the sun" is the simplest explanation we have for what we have seen. Keep in mind that we have never actually went to the sun and watched the earth rotate around from there just to be sure. We never needed to. Likewise with big bang, we can observe the universe expanding from a point, and can see background radiation far away in space that fits the simplest explanation of "everything came from one point." If you want to add your own evidence of a creator, you have to actually present the visible (or at least testable) evidence, not just something you think is true.
Rassah, you know you have a soft spot in my heart for whatever reason.
I don't really want to be too argumentative, but I did have a question to ask. You seem to think teaching the hypothesis of creation in schools would be a negative thing. It seems that you really would prefer that the world would think like you do, and not even believe in God. With that in mind, do you really think it is better if the world got to the point where it was completely "Godless?" A world that was free from any religion whatsoever? Where everyone had come to the agreement that there is no God so therefore He should not be talked about or discussed or taught to children? It seems to me that many atheists are convinced that this would become a utopia and a perfect world.
My fear is if this is indeed your hearts desire that at some point your wish will be granted. God does promise a day when that will happen and His Spirit will be removed from the earth. If evil is present now, with death, hate, abuse, sickness and so on, it will only be much much worse then. If God is love, and He is no longer present here, love will be gone. A world without love would not be the world I want to be in.
There's a little line in the revelation that says, "... and there was no longer any sea." The word "sea" there is not talking about some body of water. What it is talking about is the sea of people who don't believe the true God, many of whom are atheists. It won't be no religion. Rather, there will be only one religion, the true religion. God will see to it.
So great!
God is always up for the challenge when we ask Him to show us if He is real and to convince us doesn't He? The problem is, many people don't ask, or really don't want to be convinced it seems.
Yes He does.
And yes,many don't.
Thank you for your reply.
They have not observed the big bang have they? But they believe it as fact, when indeed it isn't a proven fact. It is even taught as a fact to students today in many schools and that, to me, is a travesty. It needs to be taught as it really is, a theory!
Didn't we already explain in another thread a long time ago that a scientific theory is tantamount to a fact, because it is based on observable evidence and fact? You are thinking of the word "hypothesis," which is where someone just says, "I think this is how it is." A scientific theory is "this is how I observed things to be, and this is the simplest explanation." Like the earth rotating around the sun is a scientific theory (heliocentric theory) based on our observations. We observed how things move around in the sky, and sent satellites to space to verify observations, and the theory of "earth is rotating around the sun" is the simplest explanation we have for what we have seen. Keep in mind that we have never actually went to the sun and watched the earth rotate around from there just to be sure. We never needed to. Likewise with big bang, we can observe the universe expanding from a point, and can see background radiation far away in space that fits the simplest explanation of "everything came from one point." If you want to add your own evidence of a creator, you have to actually present the visible (or at least testable) evidence, not just something you think is true.
Rassah, you know you have a soft spot in my heart for whatever reason.
I don't really want to be too argumentative, but I did have a question to ask. You seem to think teaching the hypothesis of creation in schools would be a negative thing. It seems that you really would prefer that the world would think like you do, and not even believe in God. With that in mind, do you really think it is better if the world got to the point where it was completely "Godless?" A world that was free from any religion whatsoever? Where everyone had come to the agreement that there is no God so therefore He should not be talked about or discussed or taught to children? It seems to me that many atheists are convinced that this would become a utopia and a perfect world.
My fear is if this is indeed your hearts desire that at some point your wish will be granted. God does promise a day when that will happen and His Spirit will be removed from the earth. If evil is present now, with death, hate, abuse, sickness and so on, it will only be much much worse then. If God is love, and He is no longer present here, love will be gone. A world without love would not be the world I want to be in.
I can't belive religion has infiltrated the bitcoin forum, religion has no place here, all is does is cause trouble.
People are free to belive anything they want and should not be persecuted for it but please keep it out of bitcoin.
People are free to belive anything they want and should not be persecuted for it but please keep it out of bitcoin.
We are in the "off topic" section. Anything goes here and I have seen much more pointless discussions.
In the beginning there was the word...
...and the word was with god...
...and the word wás GOD.
As a kid I did not believe in this god I was thought in school I had to believe in.
Although I was intensely enjoying the miracle of creation.
Told my teacher,that became furious about it, that I would refuse to be a believer,
untill some one could convince me that this god really exists.
Never before and after I made a man as angry as he was.
I simply hád to be a believer was his opinion.
Finally did say; If God has the slightest interest in me believing in Him,
He will have to make me convinced me by Himself.
And yes,He did.
...and the word was with god...
...and the word wás GOD.
As a kid I did not believe in this god I was thought in school I had to believe in.
Although I was intensely enjoying the miracle of creation.
Told my teacher,that became furious about it, that I would refuse to be a believer,
untill some one could convince me that this god really exists.
Never before and after I made a man as angry as he was.
I simply hád to be a believer was his opinion.
Finally did say; If God has the slightest interest in me believing in Him,
He will have to make me convinced me by Himself.
And yes,He did.
So great!
God is always up for the challenge when we ask Him to show us if He is real and to convince us doesn't He? The problem is, many people don't ask, or really don't want to be convinced it seems.
One of the Titans,the one who has to carry the world on his shoulders,is named Atlas.
The upper part of the spine is called Atlas.
In Dutch the pink part in between the teeth of the upper jaw is called ; gehemelte.
Heaven in Dutch is Hemel.
I think that God,who lives in the heavens,is the innervoice in ones head.
The upper part of the spine is called Atlas.
In Dutch the pink part in between the teeth of the upper jaw is called ; gehemelte.
Heaven in Dutch is Hemel.
I think that God,who lives in the heavens,is the innervoice in ones head.
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Genesis - Start of Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Really?
So someone was around at the beginning before dinosaurs to record this or just pure speculation?
He was there and made people write His-story down.
Maybe we go back in time.
Or,every moment does always exist.
I do believe Jesus the carpenter existed without a doubt and perhaps his adventures was a great story to be told to the younger generation to give hope!
What message of hope is there with Jesus, the way I see it the tale is this:
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Once upon a time a really nice man existed who wanted equality for all.
At 30 odd years old he pissed off the establishment so much that he was nailed to a cross until dead.
But then he magically cam back to life (uhh yeah right, that's believable) the end.
At 30 odd years old he pissed off the establishment so much that he was nailed to a cross until dead.
But then he magically cam back to life (uhh yeah right, that's believable) the end.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but if you tell that tale to a young kid then that kid will probably think "Holy carp! I don't want to be nailed to a cross"
Wearing a cross around your neck is akin to a JFK fan wearing a sniper rifle on a pendant. But churches take it even further, their image of christ is his actuall body hanging on the cross and you can see the nails through the wrists and a gaping wound on his side. Often in true technicolor, I've seen some statues where the artist has gone to great lengths to make the blood look wet using a high gloss varnish atop the dark red paint, gory stuff!
The message is: Let that be a reminder to you young man... you start acting all hippy like and that could be YOU nailed to that cross, just pay your tithes and keep yourself to yourself. Oh and cut your damned hair you hippy!
This whole Jesus thing is clearly a citizen control tool, CLEARLY!
Religions themselves are just cults, each one in the evolutionary game of cult survival.
Fuck religion, it does not care for you, it will gladly murder you for the survival of the cult, so I say it again... fuck it, it's time humanity left the dark ages, the stars await us....
A magic man in the sky looks down on earth and dont like what people do.
So he comes up with a plan.
He sends himself down as his alter ego, have himself tortured and killed so he can forgive himself, and *poof* everything is ok.
Yup its a ridiculous story that belongs in the dark ages
Don't let the human understanding and manipulation of a creator skew the entire possibility for you, there is a perfect order which cannot be overlooked in the universe.
Quote
Genesis - Start of Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Really?
So someone was around at the beginning before dinosaurs to record this or just pure speculation?
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