Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 50. (Read 845591 times)

I did, it's right up there, you just ignored it because you can't argue. I said, how do you know when something is designed or not, the only examples of design we have are ours, your argument is, humans design things therefore all the things that are not designed by humans have to be designed by something else.

Even if we agree on all that, it still doesn't mean it's Yahweh. Even if your whole argument was right (it's not) there is nothing that indicates the creator was Yahweh, your argument tries to say that you need to have something more complex that created the universe but something more complex =/= yahweh necessarily, it also doesn't rule out the possibility of different creators working together or something that we don't even imagine, again, there is no indication that yahweh did it.

if scientific evidence does not exist because the god is in every thought, breath and our heart, sedahsyat any scientific achievement will not be able to prove the existence of god because god only exist in our mind

If we are designed by him and in his image why did he have to kill all of us? Oh yeah, he’s a deranged psychopath that kills his children if they misbehave.

You have it all wrong! Like as intelligent designers design and build the machines that people make, even so the maker of machine universe is far beyond the intelligence of man, like the machine universe is far beyond the machines of man.

Sounds like either:
1. you haven't studied the religious writings all over the earth;
2. you are misrepresenting them.

If you had been sincere, and had done the studies, you would find that the God of the Bible has made a miracle in the Bible and the nation of Israel.

You misunderstand the nature of the universe. Originally, the universe operated like a big perpetual motion machine. Mankind sinned, which broke up the perpetual motion activity of the universe. If God, Himself, in the form of Jesus, had not upheld the universe at great cost to Himself, it all would have been destroyed way back in the Beginning times, and mankind right along with it. That doesn't sound like a deranged psychopath to me.

You simply misunderstand. The problem is, you like yourself that way.

You got that all wrong butterbean, the machine nature of the universe is the proof that goof god doesn’t exist.

The religious writings all over the world, in every language and with all different gods show the god is a random almost chaotic psychopath. He gets angry at the drop of a hat like a bipolar loon and decides to kill everyone on the planet with a flood. Time and time again his chaotic loony behavior manifests itself as a random mean-cruel master.

If we are designed by him and in his image why did he have to kill all of us? Oh yeah, he’s a deranged psychopath that kills his children if they misbehave.

This thread is about scientific proof, not correcting someone on their off-topic posts. Please stop bringing off-topic posts into the discussion, since that is what you are doing when you talk about religious posts.

Why don't you state a scientific opposition to cause and effect, entropy, or complexity, and how they combine to prove God exists, rather than simply stating you debunked such science. And the real proof for God is the machine nature of the universe. We have no other example than the fact that machines have makers.

This thread is about scientific proof not religion, please stop bringing religion into the discussion, I know you like god but refrain from it here.

Because it is God that holds you alive in His hand. And He does so because of his own agenda, which is...

Believe and be saved... eternal life... rather than eternal damnation. The amount of progress we are making in our quest for knowledge doesn't keep us alive for more than 100 years, or so. God holds the knowledge of eternal life. Focus on Him so that you can gain eternal life.

''We see nothing other than machines having makers. The question is who the makers are.'' No, again, we don't. We only see humans making stuff. ''The point is, we have no example where we can show even one machine that we know for a fact has no maker'' And you can't show one that's made by something other than animals.

Your argument goes like this: Humans make stuff therefore all the other stuff that's not made by humans must have a maker too but there is no relation there, it's just an assumption, nothing indicates that the other stuff requires a maker

''So, show us a machine of nature that we know for a fact doesn't have a maker.'' Show us one that you know for a fact is not made by animals.

The question is: How do you determine whether something is designed or not

I have always believed so, god always exist and protect, protect us.

So we agree that if we know that certain machines are man-made, then we know that they are man-made. We can only guess that a nuclear power plant is made by humans. I mean, just because they look and act like humans doesn't mean that they are humans.

We see nothing other than machines having makers. The question is who the makers are.

Yet with all the flaws in humans, the population is continuing to grow tremendously. In other words, the flaws have been overcome to a great extent. The idea of intelligence with flaws is a complex one.

How do you know that "We can see mountains forming without an intelligent being, rocks, plants, trees, etc etc, plenty of things form without any intervention?" The subatomics in all material acts in machine ways. Machines have makers. If there doesn't happen to be any intervention or observation of the maker, but rather, the machines act automatically according to preset cause and effect, this only shows that the intelligence behind them is extremely great, making our description of God extremely inadequate.

The point is, we have no example where we can show even one machine that we know for a fact has no maker. The closest that we might be able to come, is to suggest that we don't know if a machine has a maker or not. But we can show millions of machines in which we can identify the maker. The longer history goes on, the more machines we will be able to show that for a fact have makers. But we still won't be able to show any machines that we know for a fact don't have a maker. I would suggest that we have passed the point long ago that the simple odds of the many machines that we know have makers, against the fact that we don't even know of one machine that doesn't have a maker, shows that all machines have makers.

While the machine/maker odds haven't approached the C&E odds, we still have tremendous machine/maker odds.

So, show us a machine of nature that we know for a fact doesn't have a maker.

You said, if we observe nature and I gave you examples, now you are talking about computers and man made stuff. Yes, we know things are made by humans, how do you know a nuclear power plant is made by humans, tho?

''Machines, even the machines of nature that we use to make our machines, have makers. We see nothing else. Machines have makers.'' What do you mean we see nothing else? We know humans are capable of creating stuff but a plant, tree or a rock are not man made and there is nothing that indicates they were made by a ''maker''.

''But there is tremendous intelligence in the way it all works.'' There is some and there is some that's not very intelligent, look at humans, they have so many flaws, look at the earth, so many things can kill you.

''and nothing that we know of that shows the opposite (like a car appearing out in the desert out of thin air)'' We can see mountains forming without an intelligent being, rocks, plants, trees, etc etc, plenty of things form without any intervention.

if the universe is some kind of mechanism there must be somebody who has pushed the button, don't you think?

I think it’s a lot of misinformation and I personally don’t believe it

It's hard to live in ignorance. But it's even harder to live a lie. 

example of scientific proof that god exist is that there are many unnamed species and fish that has not yet been discovered yet religion told us.

Okay. You have figured out that cars and computers and nuclear power plants and ships and all the rest of the machines of mankind have come into being without intelligence, right? LOL! And mankind didn't use the machines of nature that are greater than theirs to figure all their stuff out, right? LOL! And mankind hasn't made all their machines out of the machines of natural subatomic particles in the least, right?

Nobody living saw the makers of many of the ancient machines of ancient countries like Egypt, Greece, and Rome. Consider the Antikythera mechanism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism. Nobody knows who could have designed such a mechanism, to say nothing about knowing who did it. Are you trying to tell us that it simply grew under water on a sunken galleon? Yet it is made out of the machines of nature in the materials it is made out of. The bronze and wood out of which the mechanism is made are parts of the natural machinery.

Our examples of machinery that we know about show intelligence behind them. Machines, even the machines of nature that we use to make our machines, have makers. We see nothing else. Machines have makers.

Would a trillion man-made machines be enough? Would a trillion trillion? There is a point where the odds in a direction overcome the possibility of something in the opposite direction.

We don't know by direct observation where the machines of nature come from. But there is tremendous intelligence in the way it all works. Since we see multitudes of man-made, and even animal made machines that show intelligence, and nothing that we know of that shows the opposite (like a car appearing out in the desert out of thin air), there is an Intelligent Designer behind the design of the whole universe. No other way.

This is the manipulation to leave the number of believers that is constantly decreasing

Science can prove that God is exist and the human being is one of the proof, why human is smarter than animals cause God create us same like him he loves humanity cause he treated us as his childrens.

The fact that science is existent means there was someone who created science and logic and everything. Everything originated from something and someone. And that is God. Science is the very proof of God's existence.