[SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA - page 441.

Coolstoryteller

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: smooth on December 22, 2014, 11:37:59 PM

Quote from: Pline on December 22, 2014, 10:37:00 PM

Quote

I notice that I was quoted above.

There is no huge difference guys. Shadow is using almost exactly the same protocol (and methods of providing anonymity) as cryptonote with some minor tweaks (fewer denominations for each digit, which either way is a reasonable but somewhat arbitrary trade off between chain size and anonymity set size)

People said that Satoshi's Bitcoin invention wasn't so great either. They said the encryption and most of the schemes were already invented. The brilliance of Satoshi however, was putting those pieces that were invented by others before him, together in a brilliant way that created a powerful incentive system. I see what Shadow is doing as much similar. Perhaps the developers borrowed and used techniques from those that came before, but what they have done is put those pieces together in a unique genius way. It has the same essence and feel as Bitcoin does, and I like that.

That wasn't my point. You are being a bit defensive. What I'm saying is that you get the same anonymity as cryptonote. That is not a bad thing. Cryptonote is the best system yet invented for anonymous coins, so this is a positive.

The conversion/minting/creating/destroying process doesn't give you more anonymity. Possibly less, if you are converting too often (though there is no good reason to do that). But no more is needed, because cryptonote is already pretty damn good.

Hey Smooth, welcome! Have you had a chance to use the new protocol?

Apologies I haven't joined the discussion, I've been building our new website.. but wanted to say hello to everyone. New website is looking much better. Looking forward to migrating the site over. xD

UNO_owner

sr. member

Activity: 299

Merit: 250

Quote from: Brilliantrocket on December 22, 2014, 09:38:41 PM

Quote from: SebSebastian on December 22, 2014, 08:59:00 PM

The fact that you're referring to Shadow as a "scamcoin" shows your complacency and the shallowness of your understanding of the underlying technology. If you were someone truly interested in transacting anonymously you'd be here praising the quality of the implementation. But rather you're here braying as the stiff and outmanoeuvred dinosaurs you've pinned your hopes to are shown for the relics they are. Shadow's solution is leaner, faster, more elegant and ultimately more effective than Dark's. You can spit, sneer and swear all you want, but the times they are a'changing. A good chunk of us came here with the same attitude, including me. Didn't take long to see that I was wrong.

Climb down off your rickshaw and hop on the maglev ffs! Cheesy

I'll keep watching, but like I said, I've been told effectively the same thing by supporters from many different coins. We're different, just watch. And then I invariably watched the collapse of each.

Well, SDC doesn't have 5 separate pump groups coordinating to boost the price like DRK did, so, going to need to be a bit organic in this case. Doesn't mean the tech isn't real. Try for yourself. I'll send you 20 coins to play with. PM me your address.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Pline on December 22, 2014, 10:37:00 PM

Quote

I notice that I was quoted above.

There is no huge difference guys. Shadow is using almost exactly the same protocol (and methods of providing anonymity) as cryptonote with some minor tweaks (fewer denominations for each digit, which either way is a reasonable but somewhat arbitrary trade off between chain size and anonymity set size)

People said that Satoshi's Bitcoin invention wasn't so great either. They said the encryption and most of the schemes were already invented. The brilliance of Satoshi however, was putting those pieces that were invented by others before him, together in a brilliant way that created a powerful incentive system. I see what Shadow is doing as much similar. Perhaps the developers borrowed and used techniques from those that came before, but what they have done is put those pieces together in a unique genius way. It has the same essence and feel as Bitcoin does, and I like that.

That wasn't my point. You are being a bit defensive. What I'm saying is that you get the same anonymity as cryptonote. That is not a bad thing. Cryptonote is the best system yet invented for anonymous coins, so this is a positive.

The conversion/minting/creating/destroying process doesn't give you more anonymity. Possibly less, if you are converting too often (though there is no good reason to do that). But no more is needed, because cryptonote is already pretty damn good.

Djinou94

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

Satoshi created Bitcoin then Cryptonote and he waited for someone reconstituted the puzzle

And that day has arrived

LongAndShort

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1050

Quote from: coins101 on December 22, 2014, 07:01:31 PM

Quote from: pookielax31 on December 22, 2014, 06:56:10 PM

Quote from: ffmad on December 22, 2014, 06:13:35 PM

Quote from: LiteBit on December 22, 2014, 05:29:20 PM

Quote from: ffmad on December 22, 2014, 05:27:13 PM

Quote from: whocares on December 22, 2014, 05:06:56 PM

Quote from: LiteBit on December 22, 2014, 04:55:53 PM

Whys so scared? Try it within your own wallet, between addresses. You're your own mixing service now! And it's lightning fast (not a 24-48 hour wait like DarkSend running through the Masternode network.)

DS isn't that slow as you claim.
It should take few hours at worst if you use 8 rounds denom..

few hours compared to few minutes ? :/

Exactly. Plus you need to rely on third party masternodes. I can do it all myself within Shadow.

Also Darkcoin have the possibility of having NSA or something like that playing with their masternodes ... not fun Roll Eyes

Funny you say that because there is a lot of masternodes in Langley Virginia ..... If you don't know what's there its called CIA Roll Eyes

You need to read up on the random mixing that goes on within the Master Node network. Your point is worth making, but with a network approaching 1,700 MNs and with the CIA being the wrong department you are citing, then people can feel safe using DarkSend.

Sorry, but it dosn't matter how many master nodes you have when they all mostly reside at just a few datacenters like amazon! It is an issue that all drk supporters keep saying "nah its cool" but one day it might not be, that is the point and its why so many are dubious about a viable, longterm future, in its current form! You may be over the arguments, for and against. There are plenty of valid ones and this is one of them.

Pline

full member

Activity: 448

Merit: 100

Quote

I notice that I was quoted above.

There is no huge difference guys. Shadow is using almost exactly the same protocol (and methods of providing anonymity) as cryptonote with some minor tweaks (fewer denominations for each digit, which either way is a reasonable but somewhat arbitrary trade off between chain size and anonymity set size)

People said that Satoshi's Bitcoin invention wasn't so great either. They said the encryption and most of the schemes were already invented. The brilliance of Satoshi however, was putting those pieces that were invented by others before him, together in a brilliant way that created a powerful incentive system. I see what Shadow is doing as much similar. Perhaps the developers borrowed and used techniques from those that came before, but what they have done is put those pieces together in a unique genius way. It has the same essence and feel as Bitcoin does, and I like that.

Automatic Monkey

hero member

Activity: 503

Merit: 500

Quote from: Brilliantrocket on December 22, 2014, 09:38:41 PM

Quote from: SebSebastian on December 22, 2014, 08:59:00 PM

The fact that you're referring to Shadow as a "scamcoin" shows your complacency and the shallowness of your understanding of the underlying technology. If you were someone truly interested in transacting anonymously you'd be here praising the quality of the implementation. But rather you're here braying as the stiff and outmanoeuvred dinosaurs you've pinned your hopes to are shown for the relics they are. Shadow's solution is leaner, faster, more elegant and ultimately more effective than Dark's. You can spit, sneer and swear all you want, but the times they are a'changing. A good chunk of us came here with the same attitude, including me. Didn't take long to see that I was wrong.

Climb down off your rickshaw and hop on the maglev ffs! Cheesy

I'll keep watching, but like I said, I've been told effectively the same thing by supporters from many different coins. We're different, just watch. And then I invariably watched the collapse of each.

This won't be a good place to watch. The value of the coin will be determined by a few things, none of which exist here. The big one is the breadth of its acceptance. The short PoW+PoS system gives good security at the expense of distribution, and that will need to be overcome too. Slowly, slowly. Once experience determines that the coin is safe and reliable use will increase, first the outlaws, then the privacy absolutists, then everyone else.

In the meantime hopefully work will continue on the wallet. The hard work of the zk seems to be a success, but it could use some improvements that make it smoother for non-expert users. Then there are the promised advanced wallet features. Of course they are just promised for now, but I can't see any reason why the devs would work so hard on the ring signatures and then not be bothered with simpler things like encrypted order forms and file transfer.

ozkraut

sr. member

Activity: 522

Merit: 266

Quote from: Coolstoryteller on December 22, 2014, 08:53:00 PM

In case you missed it..
http://shadowtalk.org/topic/252/darkcoin-proposal-statement

And guys and gals there's no need to bash DRK's efforts. At least they are trying to innovate instead of search and replacing code. There's only a few original projects like ours that are innovating and they deserve respect for their efforts.

^^^ that is the winning spirit. We are all one team on the way of destroying debt slavery and creating our own future infrastructure. Well said. DRK is legit and so is SDC. In an ocean full of crap and scams. Except our anon implementation is superior.....SDC Im talking about (;-)

Brilliantrocket

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 500

Quote from: SebSebastian on December 22, 2014, 08:59:00 PM

The fact that you're referring to Shadow as a "scamcoin" shows your complacency and the shallowness of your understanding of the underlying technology. If you were someone truly interested in transacting anonymously you'd be here praising the quality of the implementation. But rather you're here braying as the stiff and outmanoeuvred dinosaurs you've pinned your hopes to are shown for the relics they are. Shadow's solution is leaner, faster, more elegant and ultimately more effective than Dark's. You can spit, sneer and swear all you want, but the times they are a'changing. A good chunk of us came here with the same attitude, including me. Didn't take long to see that I was wrong.

Climb down off your rickshaw and hop on the maglev ffs! Cheesy

I'll keep watching, but like I said, I've been told effectively the same thing by supporters from many different coins. We're different, just watch. And then I invariably watched the collapse of each.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: moonchaser on December 22, 2014, 03:45:45 PM

So guys, I still struggle to see where the zk snarks and all the shit is implemented.
So, you have SDC. You turn that SDC into a token, then you send the token anonymously (exactly the way you would a cryptonote coin) to something, then you convert it back to SDC.
If you convert on one end and then convert on the other, then the conversion has to be the same size. So if someone looks at the size of the conversions then you have traced the transaction, meaning is traceable.
Moreover, one has to find tokens of the same size in the chain. Surely the wallet does that automatically.
So from what I see, in order to make the transaction untraceable, one has decouple the conversions in time.
Conclusion : So what the sdc dev did, was to substitute ring signatures for zk-snarks in zero cash.
Can someone be kind and explain if I'm getting it wrong ?
And please spare me the usual SDC rocks BS...

If you are going to be constantly converting back, then you don't get very good untracability, especially on a low-volume network.

But there is no reason to do that. Just hang on to the token, and send it to someone else.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Longenecker on December 22, 2014, 02:04:32 PM

Excellent post CST. Worth restating is the fact that cryptonote simply obfuscates the outputs, whereas Shadow destroys them... a huge difference.

I notice that I was quoted above.

There is no huge difference guys. Shadow is using almost exactly the same protocol (and methods of providing anonymity) as cryptonote with some minor tweaks (fewer denominations for each digit, which either way is a reasonable but somewhat arbitrary trade off between chain size and anonymity set size)

SebSebastian

sr. member

Activity: 286

Merit: 250

Quote from: Brilliantrocket on December 22, 2014, 08:43:33 PM

Quote from: coins101 on December 22, 2014, 08:33:04 PM

There was so much misinformation I just gave up. There is only so much time on this planet.

Seeing people say the exact same thing with each new scamcoin gets tiring. But the sheep need fleecing, so I expect we'll be seeing Shadowmoney, Blackcash, Hiddenasset etc ad infinitum. And all of their supporters will tell us how we just see their blatant shitcoin as a threat to Darkcoin.

The fact that you're referring to Shadow as a "scamcoin" shows your complacency and the shallowness of your understanding of the underlying technology. If you were someone truly interested in transacting anonymously you'd be here praising the quality of the implementation. But rather you're here braying as the stiff and outmanoeuvred dinosaurs you've pinned your hopes to are shown for the relics they are. Shadow's solution is leaner, faster, more elegant and ultimately more effective than Dark's. You can spit, sneer and swear all you want, but the times they are a'changing. A good chunk of us came here with the same attitude, including me. Didn't take long to see that I was wrong.

Climb down off your rickshaw and hop on the maglev ffs! Cheesy

Coolstoryteller

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: coins101 on December 22, 2014, 07:08:11 PM

Quote from: whocares on December 22, 2014, 05:06:56 PM

Quote from: LiteBit on December 22, 2014, 04:55:53 PM

Whys so scared? Try it within your own wallet, between addresses. You're your own mixing service now! And it's lightning fast (not a 24-48 hour wait like DarkSend running through the Masternode network.)

DS isn't that slow as you claim.
It should take few hours at worst if you use 8 rounds denom..

DarkSend also uses pre-mixing.

Coins are mixed whenever you want, not just when you want to spend. Anon is on-tap.

Mixing I/Os is so 2014..

Welcome to 2015 where they are destroyed.

Quote from: Brilliantrocket on December 22, 2014, 08:43:33 PM

Quote from: coins101 on December 22, 2014, 08:33:04 PM

There was so much misinformation I just gave up. There is only so much time on this planet.

Seeing people say the exact same thing with each new scamcoin gets tiring. But the sheep need fleecing, so I expect we'll be seeing Shadowmoney, Blackcash, Hiddenasset etc ad infinitum. And all of their supporters will tell us how we just see their blatant shitcoin as a threat to Darkcoin.

In case you missed it..
http://shadowtalk.org/topic/252/darkcoin-proposal-statement

And guys and gals there's no need to bash DRK's efforts. At least they are trying to innovate instead of search and replacing code. There's only a few original projects like ours that are innovating and they deserve respect for their efforts.

Brilliantrocket

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 500

Quote from: coins101 on December 22, 2014, 08:33:04 PM

There was so much misinformation I just gave up. There is only so much time on this planet.

Seeing people say the exact same thing with each new scamcoin gets tiring. But the sheep need fleecing, so I expect we'll be seeing Shadowmoney, Blackcash, Hiddenasset etc ad infinitum. And all of their supporters will tell us how we just see their blatant shitcoin as a threat to Darkcoin.

coins101

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: SebSebastian on December 22, 2014, 08:26:30 PM

Quote from: coins101 on December 22, 2014, 07:08:11 PM

Quote from: whocares on December 22, 2014, 05:06:56 PM

Quote from: LiteBit on December 22, 2014, 04:55:53 PM

Whys so scared? Try it within your own wallet, between addresses. You're your own mixing service now! And it's lightning fast (not a 24-48 hour wait like DarkSend running through the Masternode network.)

DS isn't that slow as you claim.
It should take few hours at worst if you use 8 rounds denom..

DarkSend also uses pre-mixing.

Coins are mixed whenever you want, not just when you want to spend. Anon is on-tap.

Glad you stopped there, had you made a fourth post in a row it might've looked like you felt Shadow was a threat to DRK. Wink

Sorry to burst your bubble. I've seen them all come and go.

There was so much misinformation I just gave up. There is only so much time on this planet.

SebSebastian

sr. member

Activity: 286

Merit: 250

Quote from: coins101 on December 22, 2014, 07:08:11 PM

Quote from: whocares on December 22, 2014, 05:06:56 PM

Quote from: LiteBit on December 22, 2014, 04:55:53 PM

Whys so scared? Try it within your own wallet, between addresses. You're your own mixing service now! And it's lightning fast (not a 24-48 hour wait like DarkSend running through the Masternode network.)

DS isn't that slow as you claim.
It should take few hours at worst if you use 8 rounds denom..

DarkSend also uses pre-mixing.

Coins are mixed whenever you want, not just when you want to spend. Anon is on-tap.

Glad you stopped there, had you made a fourth post in a row it might've looked like you felt Shadow was a threat to DRK. Wink

dasource

hero member

Activity: 821

Merit: 1000

Quote from: moonchaser on December 22, 2014, 04:11:54 PM

OK. Thanks for the answer. That clarifies it further more, but due to the same size conversion, the transaction can't be still traced ? Or because the output and input values are obfuscated that means the conversion size is obfuscated too...or not ?

There is no requirement to covert the same size i.e. you receive 100 Shadow .. you can then send them in any size as Shadow (5,10,20 etc) or convert them in any size as SDC (e.g. 14.1 SDC).

Quote from: moonchaser on December 22, 2014, 04:11:54 PM

Somewhere in the disclaimer says something like this ; "you have to find tokens of the same size in the chain"

This is automated by the client ... as more Shadow tokens are created this will become even better than what it is right now.
Great way to see this is the "Chain Data" tab in the Wallet

coins101

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: whocares on December 22, 2014, 05:06:56 PM

Quote from: LiteBit on December 22, 2014, 04:55:53 PM

Whys so scared? Try it within your own wallet, between addresses. You're your own mixing service now! And it's lightning fast (not a 24-48 hour wait like DarkSend running through the Masternode network.)

DS isn't that slow as you claim.
It should take few hours at worst if you use 8 rounds denom..

DarkSend also uses pre-mixing.

Coins are mixed whenever you want, not just when you want to spend. Anon is on-tap.

coins101

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Propulsion on December 20, 2014, 10:59:03 AM

Quote from: Coolstoryteller on December 19, 2014, 03:46:58 PM

SDCDev created a new build that fixes the syncing issue users have reported. Please update to the latest build to reduce any future sync issues. The main ANN on sdtalk has been updated with the correct links as well as the link to the bootstrap file.

http://shadowtalk.org/topic/296/shadowcash-zero-knowledge-anonymous-distributed-e-cash-via-traceable-ring-signatures/3

Thanks!

Anon branch for QT doesn't compile. This is done after checking out the anon branch and doing git pull. Errors below:

Quote from: g++

src/qt/qtipcserver.cpp: In function ‘void ipcThread2(void*)’:
src/qt/qtipcserver.cpp:110:13: error: ‘fShutdown’ was not declared in this scope
if (fShutdown)
^
make: *** [build/qtipcserver.o] Error 1
make: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
In file included from src/bitcoinrpc.h:17:0,
from src/noui.cpp:7:
src/json/json_spirit_writer_template.h: In function ‘String_type json_spirit::non_printable_to_string(unsigned int)’:
src/json/json_spirit_writer_template.h:31:50: warning: typedef ‘Char_type’ locally defined but not used [-Wunused-local-typedefs]
typedef typename String_type::value_type Char_type;

Compiling shadowcoind (the daemon) returns "v1.3.0.5-3-g6c60784" instead of the expected 1.3.0.6.

So at the moment, some of us are unable to use the wallet at all whether it be the daemon or QT.

Has the forking issue been resolved?

Usually when only a few people notice these things, it's because most hodlers have their coins on exchanges Roll Eyes

coins101

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: pookielax31 on December 22, 2014, 06:56:10 PM

Quote from: ffmad on December 22, 2014, 06:13:35 PM

Quote from: LiteBit on December 22, 2014, 05:29:20 PM

Quote from: ffmad on December 22, 2014, 05:27:13 PM

Quote from: whocares on December 22, 2014, 05:06:56 PM

Quote from: LiteBit on December 22, 2014, 04:55:53 PM

Whys so scared? Try it within your own wallet, between addresses. You're your own mixing service now! And it's lightning fast (not a 24-48 hour wait like DarkSend running through the Masternode network.)

DS isn't that slow as you claim.
It should take few hours at worst if you use 8 rounds denom..

few hours compared to few minutes ? :/

Exactly. Plus you need to rely on third party masternodes. I can do it all myself within Shadow.

Also Darkcoin have the possibility of having NSA or something like that playing with their masternodes ... not fun Roll Eyes

Funny you say that because there is a lot of masternodes in Langley Virginia ..... If you don't know what's there its called CIA Roll Eyes

You need to read up on the random mixing that goes on within the Master Node network. Your point is worth making, but with a network approaching 1,700 MNs and with the CIA being the wrong department you are citing, then people can feel safe using DarkSend.

Topic: [SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA - page 441. (Read 1289636 times)