[SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA - page 440.

Alty

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Quote from: smooth on December 23, 2014, 08:16:10 AM

Quote from: LiteBit on December 23, 2014, 07:53:36 AM

First off, has there been enough time to assess if ShadowCash project has a working Zero Knowledge solution?

I haven't looked at the code. From the white paper it looks like it has what you are calling a "Zero Knowledge solution" based on the methods from cryptonote.

Quote

Secondly, does the Monero project of Darkcoin project have a Zero Knowledge solution?

Monero and Darkcoin are different projects.

Monero uses cryptonote, so it has what you are calling a "Zero Knowledge solution" (and has had it since day one, in April 2014). Nobody outside of the SDC community calls it that, but you can use whatever terminology you like I suppose. Cryptonote (i.e. Monero) does use a simple zero knowledge proof in its signature scheme, the same method that SDC uses.

Darkcoin uses a variation of coinjoin where inputs and outputs from various transactions are combined by a series of semi-trusted nodes called Masternodes, essentially mixing those transactions together. There is not really a special transaction type for this, just a regular bitcoin-style transaction with many inputs and outputs.

Quote

I'd like to compare anonymous transactions between the three projects being discussed here; XMR, DRK & Shadow. Could somebody post transaction IDs for each project showing an anonymous trade? I'd like to compare apples to apples when it comes to linkability and traceability. Ignoring codebase and proof differences between them for now.

Here is a Monero transaction:

http://chainradar.com/xmr/transaction/ab187945caff3a9ca5034338657808f242d8f2899fc11d93f2ef2d719bb16ecd

I don't know enough about the others to provide correct links to anonymous transactions.

What many people seem to be missing (and it is totally normal to do so because it's not been seen before) is they keep comparing it to existing solutions.

SDC has something completely new in that it destroys coins that are then converted into redeemable tokens that sit on top of the blockchain and these tokens can then be reconverted via minting into new SDC.

It's only the exchange / allocation of tokens that use the ring sig with basic NIZK to prove to the blockchain that the holder owns the value of the output without revealing identity, it's not the actual coins using ring sig.

It is indeed a very well thought out system that cannot be followed on an explorer because it'll just lead you to a dead end. Hence 100% anon.

smooth

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Quote from: skip60 on December 23, 2014, 08:18:52 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 23, 2014, 08:16:10 AM

Here is a Monero transaction:

http://chainradar.com/xmr/transaction/ab187945caff3a9ca5034338657808f242d8f2899fc11d93f2ef2d719bb16ecd

I don't know enough about the others to provide correct links to anonymous transactions.

so, which part of this transaction is ANON???

The whole thing.

There are no traceable or linkable addresses anywhere on that transaction. Inputs are signed using one time ring signatures (which include a zero knowledge proof) and outputs use stealth (one time) addresses.

skip60

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Quote from: smooth on December 23, 2014, 08:16:10 AM

Here is a Monero transaction:

http://chainradar.com/xmr/transaction/ab187945caff3a9ca5034338657808f242d8f2899fc11d93f2ef2d719bb16ecd

I don't know enough about the others to provide correct links to anonymous transactions.

so, which part of this transaction is ANON???

smooth

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Activity: 2968

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Quote from: LiteBit on December 23, 2014, 07:53:36 AM

First off, has there been enough time to assess if ShadowCash project has a working Zero Knowledge solution?

I haven't looked at the code. From the white paper it looks like it has what you are calling a "Zero Knowledge solution" based on the methods from cryptonote.

Quote

Secondly, does the Monero project of Darkcoin project have a Zero Knowledge solution?

Monero and Darkcoin are different projects.

Monero uses cryptonote, so it has what you are calling a "Zero Knowledge solution" (and has had it since day one, in April 2014). Nobody outside of the SDC community calls it that, but you can use whatever terminology you like I suppose. Cryptonote (i.e. Monero) does use a simple zero knowledge proof in its signature scheme, the same method that SDC uses.

Darkcoin uses a variation of coinjoin where inputs and outputs from various transactions are combined by a series of semi-trusted nodes called Masternodes, essentially mixing those transactions together. There is not really a special transaction type for this, just a regular bitcoin-style transaction with many inputs and outputs.

Quote

I'd like to compare anonymous transactions between the three projects being discussed here; XMR, DRK & Shadow. Could somebody post transaction IDs for each project showing an anonymous trade? I'd like to compare apples to apples when it comes to linkability and traceability. Ignoring codebase and proof differences between them for now.

Here is a Monero transaction:

http://chainradar.com/xmr/transaction/ab187945caff3a9ca5034338657808f242d8f2899fc11d93f2ef2d719bb16ecd

I don't know enough about the others to provide correct links to anonymous transactions.

dadon

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Pecvniate obedivnt omnia.

Quote from: Alty on December 23, 2014, 08:09:39 AM

Quote from: LiteBit on December 23, 2014, 07:53:36 AM

First off, has there been enough time to assess if ShadowCash project has a working Zero Knowledge solution?

Secondly, does the Monero project of Darkcoin project have a Zero Knowledge solution?

I'd like to compare anonymous transactions between the three projects being discussed here; XMR, DRK & Shadow. Could somebody post transaction IDs for each project showing an anonymous trade? I'd like to compare apples to apples when it comes to linkability and traceability. Ignoring codebase and proof differences between them for now.

If there are other working ZK solutions in projects I haven't mentioned that should be part of this comparison please add an anonymous transaction from them as well.

1 good example from each blockchain would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Today I will release a demo video showing the SDC anon transaction happening in real time between two wallets and analysing the block explorer at the same time.

Nice idea! show the world the shadow.

Alty

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Activity: 714

Merit: 500

RISE Project Manager

Quote from: LiteBit on December 23, 2014, 07:53:36 AM

First off, has there been enough time to assess if ShadowCash project has a working Zero Knowledge solution?

Secondly, does the Monero project of Darkcoin project have a Zero Knowledge solution?

I'd like to compare anonymous transactions between the three projects being discussed here; XMR, DRK & Shadow. Could somebody post transaction IDs for each project showing an anonymous trade? I'd like to compare apples to apples when it comes to linkability and traceability. Ignoring codebase and proof differences between them for now.

If there are other working ZK solutions in projects I haven't mentioned that should be part of this comparison please add an anonymous transaction from them as well.

1 good example from each blockchain would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Today I will release a demo video showing the SDC anon transaction happening in real time between two wallets and analysing the block explorer at the same time.

skip60

sr. member

Activity: 630

Merit: 253

Quote from: LiteBit on December 23, 2014, 07:53:36 AM

First off, has there been enough time to assess if ShadowCash project has a working Zero Knowledge solution?

Secondly, does the Monero project of Darkcoin project have a Zero Knowledge solution?

I'd like to compare anonymous transactions between the three projects being discussed here; XMR, DRK & Shadow. Could somebody post transaction IDs for each project showing an anonymous trade? I'd like to compare apples to apples when it comes to linkability and traceability. Ignoring codebase and proof differences between them for now.

If there are other working ZK solutions in projects I haven't mentioned that should be part of this comparison please add an anonymous transaction from them as well.

1 good example from each blockchain would be appreciated.

Thanks.

i dont know if other coins will be able to give a link on the mainnet. but below, there is a link for sdc

http://explorer.shadow.cash/block/b3f1a4f783b87b78f182ebd45b664b66e715fb521b6da807a2c59c1dd39f0050

Schild_

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: LiteBit on December 23, 2014, 07:53:36 AM

First off, has there been enough time to assess if ShadowCash project has a working Zero Knowledge solution?

Secondly, does the Monero project of Darkcoin project have a Zero Knowledge solution?

I'd like to compare anonymous transactions between the three projects being discussed here; XMR, DRK & Shadow. Could somebody post transaction IDs for each project showing an anonymous trade? I'd like to compare apples to apples when it comes to linkability and traceability. Ignoring codebase and proof differences between them for now.

If there are other working ZK solutions in projects I haven't mentioned that should be part of this comparison please add an anonymous transaction from them as well.

1 good example from each blockchain would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Absolutly + thats one good idea.

LiteBit

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Activity: 1133

Merit: 1050

First off, has there been enough time to assess if ShadowCash project has a working Zero Knowledge solution?

Secondly, does the Monero project of Darkcoin project have a Zero Knowledge solution?

I'd like to compare anonymous transactions between the three projects being discussed here; XMR, DRK & Shadow. Could somebody post transaction IDs for each project showing an anonymous trade? I'd like to compare apples to apples when it comes to linkability and traceability. Ignoring codebase and proof differences between them for now.

If there are other working ZK solutions in projects I haven't mentioned that should be part of this comparison please add an anonymous transaction from them as well.

1 good example from each blockchain would be appreciated.

Thanks.

dadon

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1002

Pecvniate obedivnt omnia.

Quote from: smooth on December 23, 2014, 04:50:31 AM

Quote from: dadon on December 23, 2014, 04:39:06 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 23, 2014, 04:26:47 AM

Quote from: Schild_ on December 23, 2014, 04:10:59 AM

It's not the same. Why would had our devs bother to spend thousands hours of coding if so... the way you say this is a bit misleading IMHO.

]

I never said it was the same. I said the anonymity uses the same underlying approach as cryptonote so the resulting anonymity is the same (or worse, if minting/destroy is used too much, but that is up to the users I suppose). I acknowledged some minor differences, but I don't believe they are particularly significant in the area of anonymity.

As for why thousands of hours were spent on it, you would have to ask them. Presumably they thought that reimplementing it all was a good idea for whatever collection of reasons. I guess the market will decide.

Question, can cryptonote coins slot in updated technology to there code without starting from scratch? because i know SDC can without starting from scratch so yeah maybe it's based on the same technique as cryptonote but it can be improved and it's faster and slimmer and the wallet is the best looking and functioning wallet in the crypto world with chat and many extras coming soon so right now we win Tongue

we will have mobile wallets in the near future with all this tech would like to see any of the cryptonote coins pull that off.

Techniques and algorithms and the code/implementation are two different things. I was addressing the former. Since I haven't reviewed the SDC implementation at all, I would be speaking out of ignorance to address that one way or another.

BTW, any reasonably designed piece of software can have pieces replaced without starting from scratch. That's called modularity.

that's why i was asking anyways let the most hard working most innovative team win i say, and if that is SDC and right now it appears to be then awesome because i hold shit loads hahah, if not oh well you win some you lose some, but im confident, I don't know much about coding and all that but i do know technology that has the potential to be worth a lot in the future, 90% of the public do not care about coding they want something that works, looks good, with lots of features( like free chat, video voice call, decentralized marketplaces) and ease of use, we are hitting all those nails all we need is publicity and adoption now.

ffmad

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Quote from: dadon on December 23, 2014, 04:51:08 AM

Quote from: ffmad on December 23, 2014, 04:44:14 AM

Quote from: dadon on December 23, 2014, 04:39:06 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 23, 2014, 04:26:47 AM

Quote from: Schild_ on December 23, 2014, 04:10:59 AM

It's not the same. Why would had our devs bother to spend thousands hours of coding if so... the way you say this is a bit misleading IMHO.

]

I never said it was the same. I said the anonymity uses the same underlying approach as cryptonote so the resulting anonymity is the same (or worse, if minting/destroy is used too much, but that is up to the users I suppose). I acknowledged some minor differences, but I don't believe they are particularly significant in the area of anonymity.

As for why thousands of hours were spent on it, you would have to ask them. Presumably they thought that reimplementing it all was a good idea for whatever collection of reasons. I guess the market will decide.

Question, can cryptonote coins slot in updated technology to there code without starting from scratch? because i know SDC can without starting from scratch so yeah maybe it's based on the same technique as cryptonote but it can be improved and it's faster and slimmer and the wallet is the best looking and functioning wallet in the crypto world with chat and many extras coming soon so right now we win Tongue

we will have mobile wallets in the near future with all this tech would like to see any of the cryptonote coins pull that off.

Not from a miners' point of view ^^

XMR is a good anonymous POW coin, SDC is a good anonymous POS coin

Let's be friend with XMR guys

sounds like a good idea, in a perfect world competing coins and community's would out innovate instead of picking at straws to protect there investments and if that happened crypto would be far more advanced then it is now, but this is not a perfect world, if any coins want to be better the SDC then they better get to work.

If i say that it's because XMR has a real solution, and just by looking at their threads you can see a lot of people with a good knowledge, and when they came here it's to discuss tech.

Not like Drk, where people judge coins on their volume and marketcap ... and do basic trolling like that :

Quote from: Brilliantrocket on December 22, 2014, 08:43:33 PM

Quote from: coins101 on December 22, 2014, 08:33:04 PM

There was so much misinformation I just gave up. There is only so much time on this planet.

Seeing people say the exact same thing with each new scamcoin gets tiring. But the sheep need fleecing, so I expect we'll be seeing Shadowmoney, Blackcash, Hiddenasset etc ad infinitum. And all of their supporters will tell us how we just see their blatant shitcoin as a threat to Darkcoin.

dadon

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Quote from: ffmad on December 23, 2014, 04:44:14 AM

Quote from: dadon on December 23, 2014, 04:39:06 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 23, 2014, 04:26:47 AM

Quote from: Schild_ on December 23, 2014, 04:10:59 AM

It's not the same. Why would had our devs bother to spend thousands hours of coding if so... the way you say this is a bit misleading IMHO.

]

I never said it was the same. I said the anonymity uses the same underlying approach as cryptonote so the resulting anonymity is the same (or worse, if minting/destroy is used too much, but that is up to the users I suppose). I acknowledged some minor differences, but I don't believe they are particularly significant in the area of anonymity.

As for why thousands of hours were spent on it, you would have to ask them. Presumably they thought that reimplementing it all was a good idea for whatever collection of reasons. I guess the market will decide.

Question, can cryptonote coins slot in updated technology to there code without starting from scratch? because i know SDC can without starting from scratch so yeah maybe it's based on the same technique as cryptonote but it can be improved and it's faster and slimmer and the wallet is the best looking and functioning wallet in the crypto world with chat and many extras coming soon so right now we win Tongue

we will have mobile wallets in the near future with all this tech would like to see any of the cryptonote coins pull that off.

Not from a miners' point of view ^^

XMR is a good anonymous POW coin, SDC is a good anonymous POS coin

Let's be friend with XMR guys

sounds like a good idea, in a perfect world competing coins and community's would out innovate instead of picking at straws to protect there investments and if that happened crypto would be far more advanced then it is now, but this is not a perfect world, if any coins want to be better the SDC then they better get to work.

Cornett

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Quote from: Coolstoryteller on December 23, 2014, 01:20:33 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 22, 2014, 11:37:59 PM

Quote from: Pline on December 22, 2014, 10:37:00 PM

Quote

I notice that I was quoted above.

There is no huge difference guys. Shadow is using almost exactly the same protocol (and methods of providing anonymity) as cryptonote with some minor tweaks (fewer denominations for each digit, which either way is a reasonable but somewhat arbitrary trade off between chain size and anonymity set size)

People said that Satoshi's Bitcoin invention wasn't so great either. They said the encryption and most of the schemes were already invented. The brilliance of Satoshi however, was putting those pieces that were invented by others before him, together in a brilliant way that created a powerful incentive system. I see what Shadow is doing as much similar. Perhaps the developers borrowed and used techniques from those that came before, but what they have done is put those pieces together in a unique genius way. It has the same essence and feel as Bitcoin does, and I like that.

That wasn't my point. You are being a bit defensive. What I'm saying is that you get the same anonymity as cryptonote. That is not a bad thing. Cryptonote is the best system yet invented for anonymous coins, so this is a positive.

The conversion/minting/creating/destroying process doesn't give you more anonymity. Possibly less, if you are converting too often (though there is no good reason to do that). But no more is needed, because cryptonote is already pretty damn good.

Hey Smooth, welcome! Have you had a chance to use the new protocol?

Apologies I haven't joined the discussion, I've been building our new website.. but wanted to say hello to everyone. New website is looking much better. Looking forward to migrating the site over. xD

It would be cool if our site will be similar to Blackcoin's one Wink

smooth

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Quote from: dadon on December 23, 2014, 04:39:06 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 23, 2014, 04:26:47 AM

Quote from: Schild_ on December 23, 2014, 04:10:59 AM

It's not the same. Why would had our devs bother to spend thousands hours of coding if so... the way you say this is a bit misleading IMHO.

]

I never said it was the same. I said the anonymity uses the same underlying approach as cryptonote so the resulting anonymity is the same (or worse, if minting/destroy is used too much, but that is up to the users I suppose). I acknowledged some minor differences, but I don't believe they are particularly significant in the area of anonymity.

As for why thousands of hours were spent on it, you would have to ask them. Presumably they thought that reimplementing it all was a good idea for whatever collection of reasons. I guess the market will decide.

Question, can cryptonote coins slot in updated technology to there code without starting from scratch? because i know SDC can without starting from scratch so yeah maybe it's based on the same technique as cryptonote but it can be improved and it's faster and slimmer and the wallet is the best looking and functioning wallet in the crypto world with chat and many extras coming soon so right now we win Tongue

we will have mobile wallets in the near future with all this tech would like to see any of the cryptonote coins pull that off.

Techniques and algorithms and the code/implementation are two different things. I was addressing the former. Since I haven't reviewed the SDC implementation at all, I would be speaking out of ignorance to address that one way or another.

BTW, any reasonably designed piece of software can have pieces replaced without starting from scratch. That's called modularity.

ffmad

legendary

Activity: 868

Merit: 1006

Quote from: dadon on December 23, 2014, 04:39:06 AM

Quote from: smooth on December 23, 2014, 04:26:47 AM

Quote from: Schild_ on December 23, 2014, 04:10:59 AM

It's not the same. Why would had our devs bother to spend thousands hours of coding if so... the way you say this is a bit misleading IMHO.

]

I never said it was the same. I said the anonymity uses the same underlying approach as cryptonote so the resulting anonymity is the same (or worse, if minting/destroy is used too much, but that is up to the users I suppose). I acknowledged some minor differences, but I don't believe they are particularly significant in the area of anonymity.

As for why thousands of hours were spent on it, you would have to ask them. Presumably they thought that reimplementing it all was a good idea for whatever collection of reasons. I guess the market will decide.

Question, can cryptonote coins slot in updated technology to there code without starting from scratch? because i know SDC can without starting from scratch so yeah maybe it's based on the same technique as cryptonote but it can be improved and it's faster and slimmer and the wallet is the best looking and functioning wallet in the crypto world with chat and many extras coming soon so right now we win Tongue

we will have mobile wallets in the near future with all this tech would like to see any of the cryptonote coins pull that off.

Not from a miners' point of view ^^

XMR is a good anonymous POW coin, SDC is a good anonymous POS coin

Let's be friend with XMR guys

dadon

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1002

Pecvniate obedivnt omnia.

Quote from: smooth on December 23, 2014, 04:26:47 AM

Quote from: Schild_ on December 23, 2014, 04:10:59 AM

It's not the same. Why would had our devs bother to spend thousands hours of coding if so... the way you say this is a bit misleading IMHO.

]

I never said it was the same. I said the anonymity uses the same underlying approach as cryptonote so the resulting anonymity is the same (or worse, if minting/destroy is used too much, but that is up to the users I suppose). I acknowledged some minor differences, but I don't believe they are particularly significant in the area of anonymity.

As for why thousands of hours were spent on it, you would have to ask them. Presumably they thought that reimplementing it all was a good idea for whatever collection of reasons. I guess the market will decide.

Question, can cryptonote coins slot in updated technology to there code without starting from scratch? because i know SDC can without starting from scratch so yeah maybe it's based on the same technique as cryptonote but it can be improved and it's faster and slimmer and the wallet is the best looking and functioning wallet in the crypto world with chat and many extras coming soon so right now we win Tongue

we will have mobile wallets in the near future with all this tech would like to see any of the cryptonote coins pull that off.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Schild_ on December 23, 2014, 04:10:59 AM

It's not the same. Why would had our devs bother to spend thousands hours of coding if so... the way you say this is a bit misleading IMHO.

]

I never said it was the same. I said the anonymity uses the same underlying approach as cryptonote so the resulting anonymity is the same (or worse, if minting/destroy is used too much, but that is up to the users I suppose). I acknowledged some minor differences, but I don't believe they are particularly significant in the area of anonymity.

As for why thousands of hours were spent on it, you would have to ask them. Presumably they thought that reimplementing it all was a good idea for whatever collection of reasons. I guess the market will decide.

Schild_

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: smooth on December 22, 2014, 11:37:59 PM

Quote from: Pline on December 22, 2014, 10:37:00 PM

Quote

I notice that I was quoted above.

There is no huge difference guys. Shadow is using almost exactly the same protocol (and methods of providing anonymity) as cryptonote with some minor tweaks (fewer denominations for each digit, which either way is a reasonable but somewhat arbitrary trade off between chain size and anonymity set size)

People said that Satoshi's Bitcoin invention wasn't so great either. They said the encryption and most of the schemes were already invented. The brilliance of Satoshi however, was putting those pieces that were invented by others before him, together in a brilliant way that created a powerful incentive system. I see what Shadow is doing as much similar. Perhaps the developers borrowed and used techniques from those that came before, but what they have done is put those pieces together in a unique genius way. It has the same essence and feel as Bitcoin does, and I like that.

That wasn't my point. You are being a bit defensive. What I'm saying is that you get the same anonymity as cryptonote. That is not a bad thing. Cryptonote is the best system yet invented for anonymous coins, so this is a positive.

The conversion/minting/creating/destroying process doesn't give you more anonymity. Possibly less, if you are converting too often (though there is no good reason to do that). But no more is needed, because cryptonote is already pretty damn good.

It's not the same. Why would had our devs bother to spend thousands hours of coding if so... the way you say this is a bit misleading IMHO.

Anyway, I guess shadow community is open and ready to answer many questions, and Dark as the leader for anon and elder one has the right to be skeptical, but lets be respectful of others sensibility.

I still have in mind Dark vs Somecoin drama and don't wanna see happening it here.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Coolstoryteller on December 23, 2014, 01:20:33 AM

Hey Smooth, welcome! Have you had a chance to use the new protocol?

No, I just read the white paper.

Schild_

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: coins101 on December 22, 2014, 07:04:34 PM

Quote from: Propulsion on December 20, 2014, 10:59:03 AM

Quote from: Coolstoryteller on December 19, 2014, 03:46:58 PM

SDCDev created a new build that fixes the syncing issue users have reported. Please update to the latest build to reduce any future sync issues. The main ANN on sdtalk has been updated with the correct links as well as the link to the bootstrap file.

http://shadowtalk.org/topic/296/shadowcash-zero-knowledge-anonymous-distributed-e-cash-via-traceable-ring-signatures/3

Thanks!

Anon branch for QT doesn't compile. This is done after checking out the anon branch and doing git pull. Errors below:

Quote from: g++

src/qt/qtipcserver.cpp: In function ‘void ipcThread2(void*)’:
src/qt/qtipcserver.cpp:110:13: error: ‘fShutdown’ was not declared in this scope
if (fShutdown)
^
make: *** [build/qtipcserver.o] Error 1
make: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
In file included from src/bitcoinrpc.h:17:0,
from src/noui.cpp:7:
src/json/json_spirit_writer_template.h: In function ‘String_type json_spirit::non_printable_to_string(unsigned int)’:
src/json/json_spirit_writer_template.h:31:50: warning: typedef ‘Char_type’ locally defined but not used [-Wunused-local-typedefs]
typedef typename String_type::value_type Char_type;

Compiling shadowcoind (the daemon) returns "v1.3.0.5-3-g6c60784" instead of the expected 1.3.0.6.

So at the moment, some of us are unable to use the wallet at all whether it be the daemon or QT.

Has the forking issue been resolved?

Usually when only a few people notice these things, it's because most hodlers have their coins on exchanges Roll Eyes

There was no issues at all. It all went very smoothly.

Topic: [SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA - page 440. (Read 1289636 times)