Topic: Slot Games' RTP, variable?? (Read 1317 times)

Welcome to the gambling section, where the goal of 80% of the people is to post random bs to meet their signature campaign quote

Anyhow, check out my reply that I gave you a few posts up, and if you have more questions just ask. I've been working in the industry for awhile now, with both MGA and Curacao licensed operators.

Please try to stay in topic.

You are generalizing way too much, it is true that casinos will give themselves an advantage on each and every game they make available to their customers, and it is also true that some of those customers could become addicted to gambling, but they are a minority, not only that this plays against casinos, I have always thought that casinos do not like that people get addicted either as not only this generates bad publicity against them and high regulations but it also reduces their profits, as it is obvious that a casino will obtain way more profits by having a lot of clients which lose a little bit of money than by having a small poll of clients of which all of them are addicted.

I agree with you, statistics from casinos and independent scientific studies show that most of people stop when they begin to lose too much money because of the human loss aversion. Random people feel more pain when they lose than they feel pleasure when they win, that's why they usually stop gambling before getting critical losses that can get them into real troubles and way before getting addicted. So people "broke and addicted" are just a minority of gamblers (and traders). Actually studies show that "only" between 5% and 8% of gamblers are addicted.

A study from Standford university has confirmed that by monitoring gamblers behaviors in a real casino.

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/most-gamblers-are-just-out-fun

https://www.conversion-uplift.co.uk/loss-aversion-psychology/

From what you said, I can conclude that what you see and assess are those who have no knowledge of playing gambling until they go bankrupt.
You should see and judge all gambling enthusiasts across the country. I'm not defending gambling activities.
I myself am also a gambler but have never experienced bankruptcy and hopefully in the future I will avoid bankruptcy.
If you say addiction, yes, it is true that someone who tries to gamble and feels the sensation of the fun of playing will become an addict, especially in the first few games you can experience victory, so you will be even more determined to continue playing or betting.

Yes, but in the long run gamblers lose more than they gain. The incentive to gamble is that every now and then, in some sessions, they come out positive, but the sum total of their lifetime bets and winnings comes out negative.


In this I agree and I have said it before: those who have problems with gambling, if gambling did not exist they would have other problematic behaviour such as the one you are talking about.

If they all would be broke there wouldn't be any gamblers. Winnings come with the territory as same as losses. That's why people gamble. They wouldn't get addicted or gambled at all if they didn't win as well. Some people just don't have any risk management and they don't cut their losses but gamble everything. These people would gamble on high leveraged markets is there wasn't slots around.

Yah, Fiesta !

But it's the same game, just renamed/enhanced !





Yes, you're totally right dear!

Most likely it is. Btw, do you happen to know, where we can read the requirements regarding slot games' RTP in any jurisdiction. Actually, it's so hard to find things like this, I would happily read any related information.


That's a pretty big enhancing! Sweet Bonanza slot normally has around 96.50% RTP, but are you sure it's Sweet Bonanza and not Sweet Fiesta?


I think, it is more like, the more you wager, the more casino is earning. As for us regular gamblers, it all depends on luck, unless we are making tens of millions of spins. The more spins is done, the less it depends on luck, and the closer are we to losing exactly what we should lose in accordance with the RTP.

In a perfect world, yes. But everything has some advantages and some disadvantages. For example, a lower % means you will likely lose more money over time than a casino slot with a higher %. Looking at it the other way, a lower % will mean the game is more profitable both for the online casino and the game studio that supplies the game. Also, user demands play an essential role in this regard.
 

I just wanted to add my two cents for both MGA and Curacao licensed casinos

In most cases the game providers and regulators are the ones dictating the RTP. If you have Netent as an example, they don't want that anyone has a bad experience with their IP's, because games like Gonzo and others are exactly the reason why they, as a company, are that popular.

If a casino has an MGA license, then they have to comply, and if they have a Curacao license, they have to get an additional certificate (ISO/IEC 17025). Both the regulator and the game provider state that Gonzo for an example can be between 95% and 98%, but then it's up to the Casino to see if they want to play within that ballpark.

And any good casino knows that setting a slot game to 95% will lead to faster burnouts and dissatisfied customers, so they generally keep it around 96% or sometimes offer enhanced gams with RTP ranging between 97% and 98%.

This is only true for online casinos though, offline casinos are sometimes going down to 85%, and I have no clue how can they do that legally, but I stopped playing in offline casinos a while ago so I don't care about it at this point.

What I'm trying to say is, every casino that wants to actually entertain their users and become a name on the market will want to offer industry standard RTP's, and if you're following sites like AskGamblers or similar you'll know which ones are legit and which ones are just here to grab your money and disappear after a year.

I think that is depending on the licensing jurisdiction..
and I think that the thing is controlled like an administration/bureau is controlled.. I think that what is it.. or maybe authorities could ask providers/casinos to keep unalterable(like be backed online) registers/archives of all the operations made, and then the RNG should be encrypted by the licensing authority itself to put a signature certifying its use on the registers.



About the RTP,  Stake ordered/is running an enhanced RTP version of sweet bonanza (98%) 



Another thing that I want to evoke that I think is more important that the RTP, is the Payment structure / repartion..

 so if a slot machine can pay a decent win quite quickly you could then take your win and stop playing early in the game.. so that will be not very profitable and some casinos could not appreciate it!
 
 so the most of slot games operating are on the contrary repartiting the most of the returns on the small wins and making the big wins quite rare.. what should lead you to play more.. but (mathematically) the more you wager, the more you lose!

This is really interesting. Is it possible? Do you think it's possible to disable some rigging system for the time of the inspection, and then turn it on again? I mean, of course, it's possible, but I personally think that in reality inspectors are perfectly aware of such possibility, and there are measures in place for preventing it from happening.

I a maner of 50/50 probability 13(and more) same result in a row can happen quite frequently ..  


But I think in the case of an inspection what they should do is inspecting your game/coin if it is all regular and searching for eventual shitting elements..

If they decide to just make some number of tosses what guarantees if you not just disabled the rigging system for the time of the inspection!



Maybe some elements like for the cases quoted by ultraBTC (here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.59316703 ) could alerts them about eventual infractions and then leads them to decide/or not to conduct an inspection..  but as stated/explained by Saint-loup even making billions of billions rolls to verify the average is not an indicator, as in the probabilities even the so so rarest events can actually occurs!

I will try to explain how I see it.

Imagine you have a physical casino called "Coin Toss", and what's going on there is people betting on either heads or tails, and you claim that your coin is not rigged, and that it's always 50/50 and stuff.

A guy comes to your casino and loses a lot of money because of betting on tails and martingaling and getting 13 heads in a row. He claims your coin is rigged, making a complaint to the authorities, and they decide to conduct an inspection. They take your coin, they toss it 10 million times, and see that it's not rigged, that the result is 49.9999% heads and 50.0001% tails, and they leave you alone. Now it is proven that your business if fair, but no one can take advantage of this information. You can't abuse it, right?

It all depends. Which regulator/license authority? Without going into details, but there are a big differences. What about casinos with no license at all?

But in the end, much of it depends on the people who run the business behind online casino. Still it's a wild wild west in some cases.

Here is the source info: Online Casinos are using Reduced RTP Online Slot Versions . Though, just a few things in the list have changed in the meanwhile.

I've been meaning to research about slots return rates but didn't know where to start, so where did you got this data from? And is there any way to know what settings different casinos are using? I want to make a spreadsheet for my own amusement comparing slots rtp in different casinos.

It would mean the RNG of the slot is not truly random and the game can be cracked somehow, so I really doubt about that. A good entropy/randomness is also a protection against players, to avoid being tricked and exploited by them or by anyone. Anyway I don't think casinos would accept a slot game where you can guess the result of the next spins. As ultraBTC said "Any past event doesn't have influence on future event. In other words, if your chance for a jackpot is 1:1000000. On every spin it is still 1:1000000, no matter if jackpot has been won seconds or months ago by other player.", in other words it must work in the same way as a roulette where the same number can be drawn several times in a row.

But I've been always thinking that that's what regulators are doing. They have both, time and money, and it's their job to verify the fairness, in our case the stable, unchanging RTP, no matter what.

For example, I heard that licencing authorities use an algorithm to predetermine the result of all spins on a slot, within, say, 10 million spins, to make sure the RTP is the same as stated by the slot provider. Was it just a rumor, or are they really doing this?