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Topic: Slot Games' RTP, variable?? - page 3. (Read 1317 times)

legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1248
November 01, 2022, 11:24:30 AM
#69
I don't understand how winning additional bonus rounds can lead to burning your balance. Please explain.

As for the RTP of those slots where you can win an unlimited amount of free spins(I actually think it's limited at a certain number), I think all those wins will be taken into account when regulators/auditors carry out verification of whether the stated RTP is equal to the real one.

 If there is no a maximum theorical cap for winnings hit, it can affect negatively the (medium returns), or those average or medium wins that allows you to play and wager higher amount than your bance..

 The fact that an unlimited win can really occur mean also that you can place unlimited amounts without any win..

 
 Let me give you an example.. For the game "Sweet Bonanza" for example, as they say:



 Additionally to that, during the bonus rounds hitting 3 or more lollipops give you an extra 5 free spins.. so it can continue indefinitely
 so each and both the facts points to that there is no a maximum possible win !



 
  For the calculation, if we take for example a random number generator, and consider just the one digit number on the right.. then the probability to get each digit at this position is 1 per 10.... then the probability calculus is here, but there is still chance, or possibility to get one or ever more digits never drawn at this position.. !










This is an interesting story, I didn't read it. It must a really huge amount if even 10% of that was paid in several installments. Can you share a link?


 I tried to recover the thread.. but it is dated from about three years of now, I will give it another try..
 
 He have get that on some game related to (Olympus gods), and I think that could maybe was a Pragmatic game as he posted a reply of his win.  he was playing at $3 single bet ( or $30 ), and he get constant bonuses activated during the bonus round.. this like till hitting a very huge amount.
 
 I remember at the end, LoyceV asked him how he accepted to renounce and accept the small "consolation" amount they give him, but he didn't respond.



edit
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 2198
I stand with Ukraine.
November 01, 2022, 09:45:58 AM
#68
That's remind me of those slot games with no (maximum hit),
correct me if I'm wrong, but belonging to the RTPs indicated.. the fact/possibility that you can hit some bonus rounds and continue to theorically win unlimited amount is/will surely affecting the regular or (middle) returns on those games !!
 /and can lead to burning your balance in no time!

I don't understand how winning additional bonus rounds can lead to burning your balance. Please explain.

As for the RTP of those slots where you can win an unlimited amount of free spins(I actually think it's limited at a certain number), I think all those wins will be taken into account when regulators/auditors carry out verification of whether the stated RTP is equal to the real one.

Thats remind me also of an user that won a very huge amount on a slot game and the casino just locked his account.. (he created a topic here on the forum about that).. after negotiating with the casino he accepted to get paid of an amount equivalent to something like just 10% the amount he won maybe (I don't remember exactly) and in addition repartited in several instalments !

This is an interesting story, I didn't read it. It must a really huge amount if even 10% of that was paid in several installments. Can you share a link?

legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1248
October 26, 2022, 07:05:09 AM
#67
 That's remind me of those slot games with no (maximum hit),
correct me if I'm wrong, but belonging to the RTPs indicated.. the fact/possibility that you can hit some bonus rounds and continue to theorically win unlimited amount is/will surely affecting the regular or (middle) returns on those games !!
 /and can lead to burning your balance in no time!


Thats remind me also of an user that won a very huge amount on a slot game and the casino just locked his account.. (he created a topic here on the forum about that).. after negotiating with the casino he accepted to get paid of an amount equivalent to something like just 10% the amount he won maybe (I don't remember exactly) and in addition repartited in several instalments !
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 2198
I stand with Ukraine.
October 26, 2022, 06:42:27 AM
#66
~
How did you achieve such an experience? I can't believe that you have such a good level in slots, I'm honest, it's the worst for me in slots, it seems impressive to me that every time I play, I lose everything,

It depends on how many spins you do per your slots session. If it's around a hundred spins, it's practically impossible for all of them to be not winning at least something.

I don't think that's something normal, it is that yes I bet with little money too,

Yes, losing everything all the time is definitely not normal. Betting with little money is a good way to prolong your session without losing all your balance, and you also can hit something great along the way. My personal record so far is 934x of my bet



But I'm sure you can beat it. After all, it all depends on luck, and wish you good luck, my friend! Smiley

But remember, you should not risk more money than you can afford to lose. Apart from a chance of winning big, there's always a chance of losing all your balance, so, keep that in mind.
hero member
Activity: 1246
Merit: 534
October 21, 2022, 12:53:44 PM
#65
-snip-

I really like this type of threads because it will make you think about the sites to choose to play and deal with. I am honestly not so educated about this topic, and through reading the replies here, made me realize of the misconceptions that I have been holding to for a long time now. I hope that you will update here about your separate thread @ultraBTC.
Interesting, actually a thread that makes you think positively really have meaning. If you are not educated through the thread, i think the best thing you should do is to make a research concerning what you don't know, because i believe that making research it will makes you determine totally to know what you don't no through your determination, and i believe that it has gone and it has gone forever, so therefore education those notes end with someone opinion at least you will make your own findings
sr. member
Activity: 1092
Merit: 342
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October 21, 2022, 12:32:30 PM
#64
~
I'll say from my own experience. I play different slots with various RTP, including Mega Moolah with 88% RTP seeing it like buying a lottery ticket, and, with the exception of Mega Moolah, I have never felt the difference. I mean, high volatility slots still providing you with small wins, and the frequency of those wins are often higher than on low volatility slots. Just recently I lost almost 20 bets in a row on a low volatility slot. This never happened to me when I was playing Money Train 2, and I played that slot a lot.
Your experience is surprising because when the hit ratio is low it's very quickly noticeable for the players usually. Quicker than a low RTP IMO.

You're probably right, but I was talking about my experience with slots of high and low RTP. Hit ratio is something similar to slot volatility, no? On low volatility slots hit rates are higher, but, on average, you are getting lower payouts on your hits. On high volatility slots you are rewarded less frequently, but you can get some really big wins(my favourite kind of slots).

And you are right, my experience is surprising, but that's how I feel. Maybe it's just because of my expectations, when after playing high volatility slots I expect much higher hit ratio on low volatility ones than I'm getting in reality. Smiley

How did you achieve such an experience? I can't believe that you have such a good level in slots, I'm honest, it's the worst for me in slots, it seems impressive to me that every time I play, I lose everything, I don't think that's something normal, it is that yes I bet with little money too, but I have seen in threads that there are teragamoneds bettors who win a lot with little, is that true according to your experience? seeing that you have all that experience, do you know a lot about RTP, and the value you speak of is very true, if then the RTP is high, then the profits are lower? something like that I understood, but it seems to me that it is somewhat confusing.

legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 2198
I stand with Ukraine.
October 19, 2022, 10:54:56 AM
#63
~
I'll say from my own experience. I play different slots with various RTP, including Mega Moolah with 88% RTP seeing it like buying a lottery ticket, and, with the exception of Mega Moolah, I have never felt the difference. I mean, high volatility slots still providing you with small wins, and the frequency of those wins are often higher than on low volatility slots. Just recently I lost almost 20 bets in a row on a low volatility slot. This never happened to me when I was playing Money Train 2, and I played that slot a lot.
Your experience is surprising because when the hit ratio is low it's very quickly noticeable for the players usually. Quicker than a low RTP IMO.

You're probably right, but I was talking about my experience with slots of high and low RTP. Hit ratio is something similar to slot volatility, no? On low volatility slots hit rates are higher, but, on average, you are getting lower payouts on your hits. On high volatility slots you are rewarded less frequently, but you can get some really big wins(my favourite kind of slots).

And you are right, my experience is surprising, but that's how I feel. Maybe it's just because of my expectations, when after playing high volatility slots I expect much higher hit ratio on low volatility ones than I'm getting in reality. Smiley
newbie
Activity: 26
Merit: 1
October 19, 2022, 10:23:09 AM
#62
Maybe this could be of help. This does not cover all games producers, but still...

Playngo: up to 6 RTP Variants between 99% – 84%
Pragmatic Play: almost all games up to 5 RTP Variants between 96% – 87%.
Red Tiger: almost all games up to 5 RTP Variants between 98% – 90%
Nolimit City: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 94%
Spinomenal: almost all games 4 RTP Variants 96% – 89%
Habanero: almost all games up to 4 RTP Variants between 98% – 92%
Swintt: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 95% – 92%
isoftBet: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 92%
Push Gaming: several games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 95%
Netent: many games up to 8 RTP Variants between 99% – 90%
Microgaming: several games 3 RTP Variants: 96% – 92%
Blueprint: a few games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 94%
Quickspin: a few Games 3 RTP Variants between 96% – 90%
Thunderkick:  One game 2 RTP Variants: 96% & % 94%
ELK: Can't be adjusted
Yggdrasil: Can't be adjusted
That's a very interesting and accurate list but how did you find those figures? It's something you've found yourself by playing at different casinos, or it comes from private datas for professional only? It's very surprising to learn there are providers offering up to 8 RTP variants. I guessed it was 2 or 3 variants at most.

You have no data for Hacksaw and OneTouch btw? Because ultraBTC has posted a list of providers offering only one single RTP above and those two providers don't appear there either.

No - there are software providers with a  fix RTP for every slot/casino game. But many of them offer multiple RTP versions.
Some of the providers that actually have ONE fix RTP version of the game(s) are:

Big Time Gaming
Relax Gaming
YGGDRASIL
Elk Studios
Iron Dog Studios
Nextgen Gaming
Kalamba Games

I am a retired gambling professional and also gamble myself, so both Smiley A lot of info I know, but there quite a few casinos that publish the info like this. Google Coolbet, that's a fiat casino, in their casino section they have an RTP calculator where they cover those things and to my experience that info is correct. Btw, in many cases it is not 100% of games that are adjustable, but rather some, though usually the list is quite long. No idea about Hacksaw and and Onetouch unfortunately. Just a guess, I'd say those guys have no way to adjust RTP, but that's not for sure. Onetouch is a sister company to Bitcasino.io and these guys have rather been transparent for many years. Hacksaw for long time catered their games via Relax and Relaxs does not allow to adjust RTP. Now they are going direct integrations as well, so I am not entirely sure.
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 2353
October 18, 2022, 09:10:11 AM
#61
Maybe this could be of help. This does not cover all games producers, but still...

Playngo: up to 6 RTP Variants between 99% – 84%
Pragmatic Play: almost all games up to 5 RTP Variants between 96% – 87%.
Red Tiger: almost all games up to 5 RTP Variants between 98% – 90%
Nolimit City: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 94%
Spinomenal: almost all games 4 RTP Variants 96% – 89%
Habanero: almost all games up to 4 RTP Variants between 98% – 92%
Swintt: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 95% – 92%
isoftBet: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 92%
Push Gaming: several games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 95%
Netent: many games up to 8 RTP Variants between 99% – 90%
Microgaming: several games 3 RTP Variants: 96% – 92%
Blueprint: a few games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 94%
Quickspin: a few Games 3 RTP Variants between 96% – 90%
Thunderkick:  One game 2 RTP Variants: 96% & % 94%
ELK: Can't be adjusted
Yggdrasil: Can't be adjusted
That's a very interesting and accurate list but how did you find those figures? It's something you've found yourself by playing at different casinos, or it comes from private datas for professional only? It's very surprising to learn there are providers offering up to 8 RTP variants. I guessed it was 2 or 3 variants at most.

You have no data for Hacksaw and OneTouch btw? Because ultraBTC has posted a list of providers offering only one single RTP above and those two providers don't appear there either.

No - there are software providers with a  fix RTP for every slot/casino game. But many of them offer multiple RTP versions.
Some of the providers that actually have ONE fix RTP version of the game(s) are:

Big Time Gaming
Relax Gaming
YGGDRASIL
Elk Studios
Iron Dog Studios
Nextgen Gaming
Kalamba Games
newbie
Activity: 26
Merit: 1
October 17, 2022, 09:41:10 AM
#60
Many gambling casinos right now is giving a good RTP to their games because this courage a lot of members or players to play in their gambling casino, also regarding the exact algorithm or variable with it because this is confidential with the database connection, but still, there's information in the internet that could be used as references to the RTP of the casino.

there are casinos that publish this data, also often can be found in games rules and there other sometimes peculiar methods, for example:

Book of Dead, playngo:

Stake - 96%
Roobet - 94%
Duelbits - 96%
Bitcasino - 96%
Winz - 96%
Betfury - 96%
Punt - 96%




newbie
Activity: 26
Merit: 1
October 17, 2022, 04:57:31 AM
#59
Maybe this could be of help. This does not cover all games producers, but still...

Playngo: up to 6 RTP Variants between 99% – 84%
Pragmatic Play: almost all games up to 5 RTP Variants between 96% – 87%.
Red Tiger: almost all games up to 5 RTP Variants between 98% – 90%
Nolimit City: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 94%
Spinomenal: almost all games 4 RTP Variants 96% – 89%
Habanero: almost all games up to 4 RTP Variants between 98% – 92%
Swintt: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 95% – 92%
isoftBet: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 92%
Push Gaming: several games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 95%
Netent: many games up to 8 RTP Variants between 99% – 90%
Microgaming: several games 3 RTP Variants: 96% – 92%
Blueprint: a few games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 94%
Quickspin: a few Games 3 RTP Variants between 96% – 90%
Thunderkick:  One game 2 RTP Variants: 96% & % 94%
ELK: Can't be adjusted
Yggdrasil: Can't be adjusted
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 2353
October 16, 2022, 04:26:53 PM
#58

~ About feeling a difference not,
 Imagine you playing one of those games with very high volatility and low hit ratio, events that equalizing your bance or recovering some of your bets is occurring just with those some rare decent wins or hitting bonus rounds,, then you have practically two times less chances to hit good wins.. and you can burst your balance practically two times more quickly!

I'll say from my own experience. I play different slots with various RTP, including Mega Moolah with 88% RTP seeing it like buying a lottery ticket, and, with the exception of Mega Moolah, I have never felt the difference. I mean, high volatility slots still providing you with small wins, and the frequency of those wins are often higher than on low volatility slots. Just recently I lost almost 20 bets in a row on a low volatility slot. This never happened to me when I was playing Money Train 2, and I played that slot a lot.
Your experience is surprising because when the hit ratio is low it's very quickly noticeable for the players usually. Quicker than a low RTP IMO. Actually I think I made one of my biggest losses on a slot with a high RTP but a small hit ratio (5%), I didn't pay attention to its hit ratio, and I started to play with a rather large stake because I thought it was safe to play on a slot with such a high RTP. Unfortunately I encountered long losing streaks that wiped out my balance before I managed to bring my PnL anywhere near 70% RTP at any time.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1248
October 13, 2022, 11:37:14 AM
#57


 Anyway, atributing a certain amount/bankroll to risk for playing, for a difference of 2% between 98%RTP and 96%RTP for example is (mathematically/probably) two times less for playing.. !
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 2198
I stand with Ukraine.
October 13, 2022, 11:03:01 AM
#56

~ About feeling a difference not,
 Imagine you playing one of those games with very high volatility and low hit ratio, events that equalizing your bance or recovering some of your bets is occurring just with those some rare decent wins or hitting bonus rounds,, then you have practically two times less chances to hit good wins.. and you can burst your balance practically two times more quickly!

I'll say from my own experience. I play different slots with various RTP, including Mega Moolah with 88% RTP seeing it like buying a lottery ticket, and, with the exception of Mega Moolah, I have never felt the difference. I mean, high volatility slots still providing you with small wins, and the frequency of those wins are often higher than on low volatility slots. Just recently I lost almost 20 bets in a row on a low volatility slot. This never happened to me when I was playing Money Train 2, and I played that slot a lot.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 1882
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
October 12, 2022, 11:37:34 PM
#55
I have seen many casino players, that before playing the first thing they investigate is the RTP offered by the slots,

 You found me just reflecting about this point,, I think in addition to a first RTP verification, you should verify it regularly "on the game", (I been experienced) sometimes casinos start forwarding to a different (lower) RTP version without notice and even without making update of the RTP announced on the casino description !

Well, sometimes if the casinos change the RTP constantly, it is something that I do not know if they do it according to what the slot provider recommends, I know that this is something very much theirs, and that a provider says that it is the best for them and when they can be willing to lose, however I have thought that this is an issue that does have a lot to do with the different types of slots, although it sounds a bit strange, I feel that the Pragamatic play style slots I feel that I have more lucky to win, even though I'm not looking to win but to be entertained, but if I've noticed that a lot, in fact some casinos have their apparent RTP in their slots at the bottom.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1248
October 10, 2022, 06:15:03 AM
#54


 Again, those things are very depending on some others factors.. with a game with very low hit ratio and high volatility, you can lose consequently huge balance without winning a single bet, losing bet after bet till the end..
 but mathematically, the expectation is to lose your balance twice as fast playing a game with 96%RTP that playing with 98%PTP !

 Some casinos can provide games with very hight RTP and in the same time choose to not for some games or they simply do not provide them.. that is because of the payment structure, in some games you can get huge profits relatively quite quickly, so and then stop playing.. so and then if there is not lot of attendance on the game on the casino itself, the casino can choose to not endorse the benefit/risk ratio!





edit


 About feeling a difference not,
 Imagine you playing one of those games with very high volatility and low hit ratio, events that equalizing your bance or recovering some of your bets is occurring just with those some rare decent wins or hitting bonus rounds,, then you have practically two times less chances to hit good wins.. and you can burst your balance practically two times more quickly!
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 2198
I stand with Ukraine.
October 10, 2022, 02:42:46 AM
#53
If you`re gambling several hours per day and every day for a long time - ...
If you're gambling several hours each day you're no longer able to see anything !
It is not a problem for some men, i even know such a man. I always say that there is no one recipe for everybody. I can answer you in common - that is how i answered before. Or i can tell my opinion for my type of gambling.
For me 2% difference of RTP - doesn`t matter. I gamble mostly for 20-30 minutes and with small sums - i don`t see if i lose $1-2 more.

Indeed, to feel a 2% difference in RTP one have to make millions of bets. It's important for gambling sites and providers, but not so much to us, regular gamblers. Overall I think looking for a slot with lower RTP is pointless, you can lose all your balance playing a slot with 99% RTP, and you can win a lot playing Mega Moolah with 88% RTP. If you had a united army of many thousands of bettors, it would matter for you, but for an individual player it doesn't.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1248
October 06, 2022, 11:16:35 AM
#52
 @danadc
 There is very good blog about these here
 https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.59833321


I think that if they change they should do it in all available slots so that they can be equivalent for all
It is very depending on what is available from the games providers, and not all providers are doing the same way.. some providers allow to just not display the RTP on the games informations. For some game there is three different  RTP levels, For some it almost self-evident that there is only one rtp version existing.
 For some, casinos can just choose to not provide them..

 And it is also question of payment structure.. for exemple for a game that can pay decent profits quite frequently casinos could not adopt it or not adopt a (relatively) high rtp version of it!





.

 Hi

 Si it is true that RTP of slot games can be adapted to the casinos preferences ??
 
 do all providers do this ?


 And what about when slots are accessed directly on the casino website, here anything can happen, things like avoiding use of RNG too.



 Thanks to everybody

I think in theory it is impossible, moreover, the games are certified. All slots that you access on casinos websites are provided via API. This means that the casino is a kind of an intermediary between you and software producers.

Hi BrutalFive,

The question was if RTP of slot games can  be adapted to casino preferences. Well, let's say not adapted but the FACT is that casinos CAN choose RTP settings if they are available on software provider's side.
Look for example, the latest release from the Nolimit City game provider:



There are two RTP settings options: 96.09% & 94.13%
Some providers have more RTP settings options, like Pragmatic Play (3 RTP settings). And some, don't have options of lower RTP settings, just default/top one.

Hope this helps.
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 4554
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October 06, 2022, 10:47:51 AM
#51
I feel like you can see the difference from casino to casino if playing the same game. I'll notice a bonus hits more often on xxx site vs another. I could be complately fucked in the head and just be seeing what I want to see, but i'm pretty sure casinos can request different rtps.
Different casinos have different RTP, you`re right, but the difference is small enough to feel it if you gambling less than a month i think. And it is possible that in one casino you feel that you win more often than in another but i think that the most times it is just luck and when you`d gamble for a month - you`d not see any difference if RTP in these casinos is the same.
So in your opinion, in general do a variation/difference of 2 percent is perceptible or not perceptible! ??

If I am playing in a casino that has a very good RTP, for me it is a very good thing, I have a very high chance of winning, but how can the casino survive if things go wrong? Does a casino have all the availability to then change the RTP at your convenience? and if it is done I think they have to announce it or put it next to the slot that changed it, I don't think they change the RTP in certain slots, I think that if they change they should do it in all available slots so that they can be equivalent for all, and no there is no type of claim for anyone, and this is what the transparency of every casino is about, above all legality.


Casinos love slots players, that's their bread and butter. Most large jackpots will take forever to hit and in most cases the casino has long gotten their money.

sr. member
Activity: 1092
Merit: 342
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October 06, 2022, 10:42:58 AM
#50
I feel like you can see the difference from casino to casino if playing the same game. I'll notice a bonus hits more often on xxx site vs another. I could be complately fucked in the head and just be seeing what I want to see, but i'm pretty sure casinos can request different rtps.
Different casinos have different RTP, you`re right, but the difference is small enough to feel it if you gambling less than a month i think. And it is possible that in one casino you feel that you win more often than in another but i think that the most times it is just luck and when you`d gamble for a month - you`d not see any difference if RTP in these casinos is the same.
So in your opinion, in general do a variation/difference of 2 percent is perceptible or not perceptible! ??

If I am playing in a casino that has a very good RTP, for me it is a very good thing, I have a very high chance of winning, but how can the casino survive if things go wrong? Does a casino have all the availability to then change the RTP at your convenience? and if it is done I think they have to announce it or put it next to the slot that changed it, I don't think they change the RTP in certain slots, I think that if they change they should do it in all available slots so that they can be equivalent for all, and no there is no type of claim for anyone, and this is what the transparency of every casino is about, above all legality.

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