Topic: ███ Stay away from GAWminers.com / Paycoin / Paybase - Mineral - SCAM ! ███ - page 15. (Read 38262 times)

This is true. And also its not about one statement. Do you think i would open this thread because of that statement? No way. Look at page one (summary).


@EvilPanda

Because of so much little threads about gawminer, i made this one thread. The mother of all. For everybody. Until the end 

Its quite endearing that he is concerned for the welfare of others and the community as a whole when we are constantly bombarded with scammers.

There are issues need to be addressed, and with enough effort, some of these accusations will bring to light fraud or vindicate the accused by encouraging them to clarify matters and address the concerns. This is something which should have been done long ago.

Most of all I don't understand what is your problem with this company and the reason to start multiple threads with the same content.
A normal person without an issue would just write his thouths and leave it at that. Not go on and on trying to convince random people that he's right.

So there's no proof and we should forget about it and take your word for it? Maybe I would believe you if you weren't so emotional about them with this whole liar and scammer thing.
Did he scam you? If not, it means the real liar is you.

Yeah, I have no grounds for suspicions but I really don't like the attitude and vibe I get from their website, it's an arrogance and aloofness that reminds me of BFL and we're seeing a similar style of debate here.

Like I say, I have no knowledge or experience of them, I just wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.

 

i think you dont understand the problem that this company has ... or the customers in the future.

I guess it depends on the morals of the owners. If the owners refuse to sell additional mining contracts until they can secure the hardware to backup the contracts then this would not happen. If the owners are good at what they do then they would be able to secure enough hardware at a fast enough pace so that they will never need to turn off sales.
I guess this is true, however it does not take much to "show" equipment, as they could pretty easily fake pictures of "their" equipment and/or make what little equipment they have look like a lot more. I wouldn't really consider this "fractional reserve" mining but rather the company investing a little bit of money in order to make themselves look legit when they are really not.
I would say that most small/new cloud mining companies will turn out to be outright scams, but I generally agree with your premise.
This is not necessarily true. They could have a lot of shillls who are controlled by a small group of people who are all in on a potential scam/ponzi

Its not that they oppose mining for profit, but sometimes they cannot secure the ASIC chips in the needed quantities in time or at the right price to make it worthwhile.

The fact that they can show some equipment and have a better reputation allows them to charge more so securing miners is important for bolstering their reputation too.
 
Smaller or new cloud mining companies are much more likely to be straight up ponzi schemes because they have to be to compete and because they cannot afford to buy chips in enough quantity in order to break even while paying out affiliates. The math just doesn't add up.

Established/larger mining companies have to have some hashing because they have more employees as well, thus need to account for some miners otherwise it will quickly leak out.

@inBitweTrust - Yes I very much understand 1 and 3 as they are either a ponzi or they are not one. But I don't understand why any cloud mining company would ever want to go the route of #2. I guess it would be to give themselves credibility when ASIC companies say they have received a large order from them, but I would think the initial payments would give them more credibility.

Correct, and the problem is compounded by the fact that anyone would be tempted by the higher profit margins with these activities and the fact that these companies have been caught doing things and saying things which are questionable.

I.E... companies that have high affiliate payouts are very likely ponzi's as the math doesn't add up with razor thin profit margins in the mining space.

I guess it is not recommended to trust just anything on the internet, especially something that is not backed by solid evidence and argumentation.

I am not the only one who suspects this is going on :

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andresen-suspects-ponzi-schemes-bitcoin-cloud-mining/

I hate to be so explicit for something that is obvious but here it goes:

A cloud mining company has 3 options(and I suspect most are taking option 1 and 2 ) since those are the most profitable options

1) 100% Ponzi Operation, easy to setup and operate and thus easy to undercut all the other companies as. All they need is a few shill accounts, a cheap website, and an affiliate program and they can pay affiliates and and take a cut before payouts. Since cloud mining payouts rarely have a 100% ROI and are over multiple months they even have more of a buffer even if their growth slows before being forced to shutdown.  
  
Certain cloud mining operations have already been exposed and shutdown doing exactly this.

2) fractional reserve mining - This group are either legit companies which started with 100% hashing to back up their clients but started padding their hashes to increase profitability or companies who occasionally make a large purchase to lend credibility to their claims of having 100% hashing but never intended to have 100% hashing power to back up their claims. Some of these companies are interested in profiting directly off of mining and selling bitcoins themselves but will certainly never turn away a contract even if they don't have the hashing power to back up their claims because they usually have more expensive contracts and thus are unlikely to ever have to payout more than they take in so might as well grab free money. These companies don't mind mining for its own profitability sake but they cannot always secure fair price from the ASIC manufacturers.

3) cloud mining with 100% hashing backing up what they sell

Since most contracts rarely have a ROI simply taking the cash and slowly giving back a slightly less amount of cash is far more profitable than buying ASIC's where they have to install them, maintain them, pay for electrical costs, and have all sorts of liabilities.

If a company isn't doing either 1 or 2 than why aren't they stepping forward and provided better evidence. Few have even offered and this would be a chance for them to instantly gain the credibility of the community and garner more contracts.

What exactly do you mean by fractional reserve mining? Do you mean to imply that they sell 3 TH/s for every 1 TH/s of mining equipment they actually own? If this was the case then what would the point of this be? I would think they would either have mining equipment that backs up all of their mining contracts sold or have no mining equipment at all; I think having only a fraction of mining equipment to backup the mining contracts would make very little sense and your claim that this is what they are doing only degrades your credibility

I saw it myself he 100% said he had established relationships with Walmart, Target and Amazon and you would be able to spend paycoin directly with them. Clearly it has been deleted, but their forum is riddled with bewildered responses after the fact about this.

Doesn't really matter he is a liar and a scammer.  It isn't a "mistake" or an "exaggeration" it is intentional deceit to get people on board, and once onboard, declare whoops my bad. What I really meant was...

You do not make a critical mistake such as this and historically with his MO by trying to slime Cantor Fitzgerald into the picture -- when they are not -- is confirmation of his devious ways.

Simply put he is a what is commonly known as a piece of shit.

Was it proven that they are a ponzi or doing this fractional reserve mining?
Somebody saying that you will see his product in Wallmart doesn't even tell if he's a liar. For all we know he can be overconfident or even telling the truth.

The same thing is said with all ponzi operations until they can no longer sustain themselves. Fractional reserve mining by design can go on quite a while as long as a certain level of growth is sustained. One or a few months of slowdown and it can all come crashing to an end.

The red flags and investigations are meant to mitigate this from happening or more people from being hurt.

I wish more questions were raised with Mtgox when they were still paying out their customers withdrawls.

In the end, are they still paying out their customers? GAWminers looked sketchy initially, but they have been here for a long time now and are paying out regularly.

Now you are leaving out some of the details. He also said he is working with them and it won't be long before you see them in mainstream stores.

Working with means something different than working towards. Additionally, it won't be long before you see them in major retailers supports the idea of a deal already in progress as well.

Perhaps he misspoke, perhaps he exaggerated... either way it is misleading, but I can certainly see why you are rationalizing this behavior.

What facts?
He said "we are working on getting it to mainstream stores" and "it won't be long before you see it in (store names)".

What the OP claims is "he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart"

I haven't heard such statement from GAW CEO. I think this has been manipulated by Coinfire and is now repeated by people.
Of course I won't deny it if you manage to prove he said it. Until now I haven't seen such proof, but strangely everybody including OP are showing that article, which doesn't have a word about Wallmart, Target or Amazon in it.

Edit: I just saw the OP is posting a link to this thread everywhere he can, he even started a whole new scam accusation thread (although he wasn't scammed) to link it to this thread... I'm speachless 

I can see theres a lot of stuff piling up, but whats their response to all this?

are they going to up being another mt.gox 2.0 version, but in cloud minig edition.

just saw that youtube video mark, he does mention about going into major retail stores.. during the 6 hr long google + video.