Topic: ███ Stay away from GAWminers.com / Paycoin / Paybase - Mineral - SCAM ! ███ - page 9. (Read 38262 times)

Always the same illiterate foreigners defending Homero

I have to disagree. Controlling the supply by a centralized entity is how every fiat currency works, ever. Singling out an example when it failed does not invalidate the fact that the same thing is going on with USD, GBP, CHF, well, as I said, every fiat.
Setting a base price is somewhat unique to crypto - unless of course we think about examples like tieing USD to gold, or the current example of Bulgarian lev to EUR.

Oh, OK. I thought it was just a grammar thing, and mis-ordering of words....
In that case I have to disagree again. "Founders"(=initial investors), normal investors, stakers, average joe, they are ALL in the same category to me.
They introduce fiat into the system - for different reasons of course, but it does not matter in this argument, as we were assessing the importance
of their technical ability. Which is zero. It's like BMW. Do you need to know how the latest BMW security systems, engine, transmission, etc works to buy a car? to buy shares in the company itself?

Nah man, you were the one suggesting to use fiat if I want an inflatory medium this was just a response to that, and it seems to have worked

Hmmmm, Innovation.
I've heard this a lot of times, from a lot of folks - coins with innovation will survive, coins without it will die horribly. Then I look at Doge.
Then I concluded that in my opinion, coins with active communities will survive. If the reason for this is technical innovation, good, could work. Or not. If the reason is much wow, then that is the reason.

Hmm, I wouldn't classify myself as a believer, however the keynesian view of public sector intervention (only when necessary) is somehow feels natural to me. Maybe I'm too old (grew up in that era)

Duh, ok. I just heard half-truths and plain FUD from coinfire, so I stopped reading them & put in the pile of horseshit never to touch category.

According to Josh's own statement there will be 500k in usd inflation daily for XPY , this is compared to 1.1 million usd in inflation daily for Bitcoin.

Bitcoin will have 6 % inflation in 2016, 5% inflation in 2017, 3% inflation in 2019, and 0.5% inflation in 2026. Paycoin will have at least 5% for the foreseeable future if not higher.





I understand the differences and yes, I still believe GAW and paycoin to be a likely ponzi.

There is good reason to suspect this is a ponzi by the evidence that has been repeatedly discussed throughout these threads. I am not going to keep repeating them. Do your due diligence and research for yourself.

Duh, long. I'll get back when I read it.

Ok, I'll take a look at the math. But surely, you can't seriously mean that in your calculations there are 1.1 million bitcoins generated daily? or 500k xpy?  


No, what I meant is if the company makes profit and pays out, constantly, and sustainably, it's not a ponzi. By definition. Period.
Do companies fail occasionally? yes.
Are they a ponzi because they failed? No.
Are they a scam? No. (unless of course it's an intentional bankruptcy)

No, as a capitalist I do not agree with you that its a good thing to control the supply or set a base minimum price. Look at how well price controls and capital flight controls worked in Venezuela as a recent historical example. The fact that this control is being done by a centralized entity is even more concerning and the fact that the 100 million set aside to create this support in investor capital is likely a lie is still another concern.

The clients I am referring to are the founders, investors and stakers not the average guy who wants to buy something.

You are getting ahead of yourself.  Paycoin is competing with other cryptos, not so much fiat at the moment. Some of those cryptos are inflationary and some deflationary. I would posit that any inflationary coins need to have some serious innovation behind(I.E. Ethereum) it and not simply be a rebranded peercoin fork.. Our economics probably differ as you sound like a believer in keynesianism over other models so we will likely disagree on inflation in general.


This has been discussed heavily already. Do some research into coinfire and the original company legal issues which GAW purchased and renamed to paysave.
ZincSave (which breaks amazon's TOS)

Excuse me?

Within a year? Are we suddenly looking for the coin that replaces btc? or ltc? Because you will only ever trade the coin that does that? wtf?
Ok, I'll bite.

Boohooo. At least we have an entity with serious money behind the coin. There's no reason why the community couldn't take over with a few modifications if it becomes real successful and GAW id out of the picture for some reason.

Hah! there you go! Gotcha! You ARE looking for the thing to replace Bitcoin.
Well, They are aiming to get XPY accepted wherever BTC is - they have (claim to have) GoCoin and whatever the other one was. (sorry brainfart)
if it's true, this is already huge - it's a hell of a lot of retailers. Will find out soon enough.

Again boohooo. Yeah, I know, it's like.... like.... any other for-profit (and some on-paper non-profit) company in existence, ever. Wow, stay away from that shit!

Just to be a grammar nazi here: having clients with lacking technical abilities is kind of the main point of making any crypto "real mainstream" - even btc couldn't succeed in this regard,
and now that I think about it, I actually see some chance that PayCoin could. Lot of ifs of course.

Not sure I follow, please elaborate, but consider this:
- Inflation, when controlled, is a Good Thing. That's exactly what PayCoin proposes to do, and no other crypto has done before.
- The argument can not be that "use fiat", come on now. We are in crypto here. Or are we vetting PayCoin to replace every fiat ever? And If it can't it's a shitcoin & scam? I really don't think that's a valid argument.

Again, what? Did amazon already have this plugin and disable it? It's supposed to come out this week. Where's your info coming from?

Ah, there you go, now it's fully confirmed that we are vetting PayCoin to replace Bitcoln. Lol OK.
So: See point one. If successful (will turn out in a few weeks time) community can / will take over. I've seen it happen with coins of much much smaller popularity.

It is likely both a pump and dump and a ponzi.

The evidence has been discussed for some time here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/paycoin-xpy-is-scam-900970
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gaw-josh-garza-discussion-paycoin-xpy-xpyio-ion-ionomy-always-make-money-857670



Do the math with the hastakers and prime controllers. There is at least 500k of inflation daily. This isn't going to be realized initially because of the unprecedented way in which the stake is locked up by the central issuer and cannot be liquidated. This will eventually place heavy downward pressure upon price. To be fair Bitcoin is also heavily inflationary at around 1.1 million daily but the difference is Bitcoin has the advantage of the network effect and much larger userbase and shortly this inflation will drop from around 10% to 0.5% unlike with paycoin. The 20 base support may eventually be realized or not but will not be sustained because of this long term inflation regardless if you believe in the lie that there is 100 million in investor capital willing to support the coin at 20USD.



There will be plenty of people profiting both GAW and original investors. There will be many people who eventually lose everything as well just like with most ponzi's.

OK, you are mixing up season and fashion.
Pump and dump is a scheme that all altcoins (can) suffer from given their low market cap. People with any considerable amount of money can artifically inflate prices. This is true for 98% of the altcoins out there.
With XPY it's a bit harder as it's market cap is quite in the upper league. (maybe even in the 2% from the line above)
This scheme can be spotted, avoided, or even made advantage of, depending on your trading and technical analysis / research skills.

Ponzi is a scheme where users register for a service and get paid (unrealisticly high) returns - which are paid from the registering fee / investment of new users. The scheme fails when there are more returns to pay up than
new users registering.
This scheme can be exploited if you get in early and make roi before the whole thing falls apart. This requires some... well, absence of ethics, or stomach, which personally I don't really have.



Ok, let's take this one by one.
- Mostly premined: yes.
- Highly inflationary: No. Assuming the release today fixes the price at or above US$20. Not long to wait now. And No, see second part of price support.
- Dishonesty about ICO, not mined pow coins - what? I missed this, can you give me source please? (I also mined it in the pow phase, so ... double what?)
- Price support: it's highly dependent on their release of PayBase, and the fixed price of XPY there.
All these stakers / controllers are means to control the, wait for it, .... wait for it.... the SUPPLY of XPY. which is quite unique in crypto if I'm not mistaken.
- Staking at a higher rate is questionable, yes. Could be part ponzi, but more likely covered by their other income. Could be that they do have hashing power that generates income.
Remember, if they actually make profit (which I'm sure they do), and share part of this profit with the people who help securing the supply of their coin.... it's actually a dividend payout -> not a ponzi.

Edit: ah, shoot you edited your post with points, hold on.

Paycoin is likely a pump and dump ponzi predicated upon lies and dishonesty. That places it in a special category of alts that should be avoided.

It isn't simply a matter of being mostly premined and highly inflationary that one should be concerned with. It is with the misleading dishonesty associated with this ICO, the fact that coins "mined" during the PoW phase wered actually mined because those ASICs didn't actually exist, and the fact that its price support is heavily dependent upon prime controllers and hashstakers locking in under contract with the  centralized issuer for 3 to 6 months at a time to stake at a higher rate(in PoS history this is unprecedented and highly dubious)

Top 7 reasons Paycoin will fail soon or within a year.

1) Centralized
2) Difficult to catchup to Bitcoins network effect and first mover advantage
3) Lack of technical innovation , mostly marketing fluff
4) The coin is backed by greedy and dishonest owners and clients many of whom lack technical ability and are simply in it for the money
5) Long term high inflation will lose out to long term deflationary currencies . We have plenty of fiat for you inflationary needs.
6) Paysave is based upon a plugin which breaks merchants TOS. These merchants will either disable the plugin or sue
7) Legal concerns over statements and ICO launch. There is already a mountain of evidence that GAW and josh have lied and misled their clients. All it takes is one disgruntled client, a lawyer , and they have a trove of evidence to sue GAW/paycoin with. Expect heavy legal pressure in the future. This is one of the severe weaknesses with paycoin that Bitcoin is immune from. There is no centralized Bitcoin company to sue or place legal pressure upon. There is no Bitcoin CEO.

Ideology? We going ideology now? fine by me.


Of course, trading is gambling. Same as on wall street just 1000th the volume. (something I can actually afford (to lose) unlike wall street betting, scuse' me, trading)

Enriching scammers? If you really want to put it that way, well, yeah. But not all the time - that's the point.
I would put it like this: I'm risking my money (=betting) and sometimes I get scammed if I'm not careful enough.

No that's gambling and enriching scammers

Yeah, that's partly the reason why I don't participate in any cloud mining stuff.

But please separate the 2 things.
PayCoin is an altcoin which I trade on the exchanges - That's not a ponzi, it's trading.
Altcoins come and go. Devs scam or legitly fail. Some succeed. You get lucky. More often you get f*kd. You do your homework, you get f*ked less. That's how it is.

I've often wondered, who's worse the ponzi designer himself or those who knowingly invest and promote said ponzi  allowing the ponzi to last even longer bringing down even more victims.

Ok ok, if you put it that way, I'm staying.



I get sarcasm, but you are mixing up 2 things a bit here.
1. The NDA story was about the contract with Amazon and 2 other big retail chains only americans care about.
AAAnd you are absolutely right, it sounds fishy to me too. However, within the next 24 hours we should have a definitive answer to this too, as they make the release. Or don't.  

2. The acquisition of the btc.com domain for 1 mil usd is a fact. You can't really get around that with any sarcasm.

WOW, that was a statement 

What about making a diet? Going to fitness? Enjoying fresh air?

You could get inspired again after!

Happy new year and Hash on 

Funny you say that because we just spent $50 million on our new domain name. I would tell you the name but I can't because of NDA.


Sorry having a discussion is not really your thing. If you're looking for circlejerking you should probably stick with hashtalk.

You are right of course, XPY is a copy of peercoin. They also put down a lousy mil for btc.com, just for the gest of it - show me an altcoin dev who has a mil for a domain & I'm putting some cash there too.

Edit: sorry for effing up the hate thread, I'm outta here

So far they are delivering on the XPY stuff. Today is the big day actually.
They are releasing paybase or what, which supposed to stabilize the price at .06 (it's .044 at the moment) - which is US$20.
I've got in at a much lower price, so I'm happily riding the wave with my measly low number of btcs, making sure to exit while in profit

had a positive idea for this company. What really happened?

They own btc.com.  BAM! in the face!