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Topic: Suicide - page 2. (Read 7156 times)

legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
September 06, 2015, 12:09:15 AM
#87
What is Jainism or believers trying to achieve through this kind of a sacrifice and deprivation?

According to the Jain scholars, Santhara leads to a form of Ahimsa (non-violence). This might seem like an oddity to followers of the Western religions, but for followers of Buddhism and Jainism, it is a path for completely cleaning your soul.

For outsiders, Jain religion can be full of surprises. A section of the Jains (Digambaras) refuse to wear any clothes, as they feel that being naked will make it easier for them to detach themselves from the outer world.

Yes, many things seem like oddities to Westerners.
Some jains wear a face mask, to avoid inhaling/killing micro organisms.
But still, starving oneself to death must seem to be very strange to those who have not come across Jainism before.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
September 05, 2015, 11:30:30 AM
#86
What is Jainism or believers trying to achieve through this kind of a sacrifice and deprivation?

According to the Jain scholars, Santhara leads to a form of Ahimsa (non-violence). This might seem like an oddity to followers of the Western religions, but for followers of Buddhism and Jainism, it is a path for completely cleaning your soul.

For outsiders, Jain religion can be full of surprises. A section of the Jains (Digambaras) refuse to wear any clothes, as they feel that being naked will make it easier for them to detach themselves from the outer world.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
September 05, 2015, 04:10:36 AM
#85
What is Jainism or believers trying to achieve through this kind of a sacrifice and deprivation?

It is the ultimate state of control and renunciation.
Of course, you can't do it until you have total control. A moment of weakness is all it takes to break your fast.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Loose lips sink sigs!
September 05, 2015, 03:32:16 AM
#84
What is Jainism or believers trying to achieve through this kind of a sacrifice and deprivation?
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
September 03, 2015, 09:07:14 PM
#83
Suicide is murder, even if it is only self-murder. "And you know that no murder has eternal life abiding in himself."

"Greater love has no man than to give up his life for his friends."

So, you see? Suicide with a valiant, honorable purpose may be right. But suicide for selfish, cowardly, and probably even illness reasons is wrong.

This life is short when compared with the way we can think. Eternal life is life with no end - the hereafter. Make your suicide choice wisely. You really don't want to spend eternity in Hell.

Smiley
yep, i agree it doesnt matter what you did, trying to suicide shows that you have remorse for your actions and thats enough to justify your life.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
September 03, 2015, 09:02:04 PM
#82
The debate in India started because one of the High Courts banned the practice of Santhara by Jains.
The Supreme Court has now stepped in to allow it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Supreme-Court-permits-Jain-community-to-practice-Santhara/articleshow/48751751.cms?
hero member
Activity: 2702
Merit: 704
Bitcoin is GOD
August 29, 2015, 11:21:40 AM
#81
It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

I'd be interested to know whether law/policy impacts behaviour in the way we think it would.

If I look at drug policy, Canada and USA have 12-13% marijuana users, where it is illegal...not even decriminalized with the exception of Colorado and Washington.  This can bring potentially harsh penalties including prison.

Then you have a place like the Netherlands, where they have about 5% usage, and there is no legal punishment at all.

There is more to encouraging and discouraging behaviour in society outside of policy/law enforcement.

There is something called the law of unintended consequences. Basically states that every time you do something, outcomes that you do not expect may come to happen.

In the topic at hand, we have a law which was passed that made a particular religious practice illegal by making it the equivalent of suicide.

While it’s obvious that this ruling was made in order to try to avoid suicides, it’s possible that a perverse result gets to happen. Instead of people avoiding suicide you may have people opting to use a knife or a gun.

So instead of a decline of suicides you may get the opposite effect.


I'm not sure if the consequence is unintended.  I don't think that the primary reason for strict drug policy is to decrease drug use in society.  It was threatening industries like alcohol, tobacco, pharmaceutical, cotton, petroleum based products, etc.  It also allowed law enforcement to put minorities in prison.  The same idiot that primed alcohol prohibition eventually failed and then moved onto drugs (Henry Anslinger).

In the same way, if the government wants to minimize suicides, then they need to address the main issue, which is  - what is deteriorating the mental health of people in today's society and how can we help them?  If the best we can do is say "that's illegal dude", it's not really addressing anything.  Suicide is still taboo topic in North America and is not discussed.  Suicide is not even reported in the media.  When I used to take the subway to work, and someone would jump in front of the train, there would be an announcement saying that there is a delay due to "signalling issues".  We can't keep treating people like retarded children and expect a positive change.

I think that your interpretation is valid one, but since I was posting about unintended consequences, I did not want to enter too many variables in my post.

Like you said the main issue here is the raising in mental diseases in society in general(the real ones, not the fake ones created by pharma to earn money) and how are we going to treat them.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252
August 29, 2015, 02:18:20 AM
#80
It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

I'd be interested to know whether law/policy impacts behaviour in the way we think it would.

If I look at drug policy, Canada and USA have 12-13% marijuana users, where it is illegal...not even decriminalized with the exception of Colorado and Washington.  This can bring potentially harsh penalties including prison.

Then you have a place like the Netherlands, where they have about 5% usage, and there is no legal punishment at all.

There is more to encouraging and discouraging behaviour in society outside of policy/law enforcement.

There is something called the law of unintended consequences. Basically states that every time you do something, outcomes that you do not expect may come to happen.

In the topic at hand, we have a law which was passed that made a particular religious practice illegal by making it the equivalent of suicide.

While it’s obvious that this ruling was made in order to try to avoid suicides, it’s possible that a perverse result gets to happen. Instead of people avoiding suicide you may have people opting to use a knife or a gun.

So instead of a decline of suicides you may get the opposite effect.


I'm not sure if the consequence is unintended.  I don't think that the primary reason for strict drug policy is to decrease drug use in society.  It was threatening industries like alcohol, tobacco, pharmaceutical, cotton, petroleum based products, etc.  It also allowed law enforcement to put minorities in prison.  The same idiot that primed alcohol prohibition eventually failed and then moved onto drugs (Henry Anslinger).

In the same way, if the government wants to minimize suicides, then they need to address the main issue, which is  - what is deteriorating the mental health of people in today's society and how can we help them?  If the best we can do is say "that's illegal dude", it's not really addressing anything.  Suicide is still taboo topic in North America and is not discussed.  Suicide is not even reported in the media.  When I used to take the subway to work, and someone would jump in front of the train, there would be an announcement saying that there is a delay due to "signalling issues".  We can't keep treating people like retarded children and expect a positive change.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
August 29, 2015, 12:02:13 AM
#79
This is the Jains' view on Santhara.
Makes for interesting reading.

Suicide is a desperate measure, triggered by failure and setbacks in life; it is an act of cowardice, a surrender to the circumstance because of lack of will power. It is a decision forced upon the person by external circumstances. According to the Jains, Santhara is the exact opposite of this.

In one of his discourses, Osho Rajneesh had tried to differentiate between death as a spiritual discipline and suicide. "Mahavira says, 'Go on a fast, and die of hunger.' It takes ninety days for a normal, healthy person to die of hunger. If he is weak in resolve--even a little bit--the desire for food will return the next day... If Mahavira had given the permission to die by taking poison, drowning in a river, jumping off a mountain, it would have been a matter of instant death. But a warrior good for showing only a moment's bravery is of no use in the battlefield, because he will become a coward the next moment...So Mahavira has given permission to commit santhara, causing death to oneself as a spiritual discipline."
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000
August 26, 2015, 09:26:30 PM
#78
I don't think legalizing or not of suicide would make much of a difference in the number of people who actually go through with it. Those who really want to go through with it don't give a crap about the law.

Their response can be - So sue me once I am dead.  Tongue
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
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August 26, 2015, 05:26:48 PM
#77
I had a friend who had tried to commit suicide. She told me about why she decided to commit suicide. She felt very lonely and feel no one can help overcome the problems she faces. So I think we should always be kind to everyone and try to help anyone who needs help. We might have prevented someone to commit suicide by being nice.
klf
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1000
August 26, 2015, 02:40:13 PM
#76
I don't think legalizing or not of suicide would make much of a difference in the number of people who actually go through with it. Those who really want to go through with it don't give a crap about the law.
hero member
Activity: 2702
Merit: 704
Bitcoin is GOD
August 24, 2015, 12:37:39 AM
#75
It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

I'd be interested to know whether law/policy impacts behaviour in the way we think it would.

If I look at drug policy, Canada and USA have 12-13% marijuana users, where it is illegal...not even decriminalized with the exception of Colorado and Washington.  This can bring potentially harsh penalties including prison.

Then you have a place like the Netherlands, where they have about 5% usage, and there is no legal punishment at all.

There is more to encouraging and discouraging behaviour in society outside of policy/law enforcement.

There is something called the law of unintended consequences. Basically states that every time you do something, outcomes that you do not expect may come to happen.

In the topic at hand, we have a law which was passed that made a particular religious practice illegal by making it the equivalent of suicide.

While it’s obvious that this ruling was made in order to try to avoid suicides, it’s possible that a perverse result gets to happen. Instead of people avoiding suicide you may have people opting to use a knife or a gun.

So instead of a decline of suicides you may get the opposite effect.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252
August 23, 2015, 08:55:56 PM
#74
It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

I'd be interested to know whether law/policy impacts behaviour in the way we think it would.

If I look at drug policy, Canada and USA have 12-13% marijuana users, where it is illegal...not even decriminalized with the exception of Colorado and Washington.  This can bring potentially harsh penalties including prison.

Then you have a place like the Netherlands, where they have about 5% usage, and there is no legal punishment at all.

There is more to encouraging and discouraging behaviour in society outside of policy/law enforcement.

Remember. To accurately think along these lines regarding Colorado and Washington, it is still federally illegal there, with the feds doing something about it at times.

Smiley

Yeah you're right about that.  Regardless, the point I was making is that making something illegal doesn't necessarily cause people to stop doing it.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
August 23, 2015, 07:20:17 PM
#73
It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

I'd be interested to know whether law/policy impacts behaviour in the way we think it would.

If I look at drug policy, Canada and USA have 12-13% marijuana users, where it is illegal...not even decriminalized with the exception of Colorado and Washington.  This can bring potentially harsh penalties including prison.

Then you have a place like the Netherlands, where they have about 5% usage, and there is no legal punishment at all.

There is more to encouraging and discouraging behaviour in society outside of policy/law enforcement.

Remember. To accurately think along these lines regarding Colorado and Washington, it is still federally illegal there, with the feds doing something about it at times.

Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252
August 23, 2015, 12:12:29 PM
#72
It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.

I'd be interested to know whether law/policy impacts behaviour in the way we think it would.

If I look at drug policy, Canada and USA have 12-13% marijuana users, where it is illegal...not even decriminalized with the exception of Colorado and Washington.  This can bring potentially harsh penalties including prison.

Then you have a place like the Netherlands, where they have about 5% usage, and there is no legal punishment at all.

There is more to encouraging and discouraging behaviour in society outside of policy/law enforcement.
newbie
Activity: 30
Merit: 0
August 23, 2015, 11:25:47 AM
#71
what going on there?
i believe there is manipulator on this situation and take profit from this accident.
the government should search more about this.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
August 23, 2015, 10:10:11 AM
#70
It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.

If they are determined, they can commit suicide.
But if it becomes illegal, it might deter a few.
legendary
Activity: 2982
Merit: 1506
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August 23, 2015, 01:51:43 AM
#69
How about a prisoner who get death sentence, and right before the execution, he does suicide to avoid that execution. Is that a wrong thing then since he just advancing his death?

Death row prisoners are usually closely guarded. Any harm to them would result in blame being pinned on the prison guards.
But technically, it wouldn't matter.
I got an article about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Johnson_(criminal)
Yeah, I think it wouldn't matter, which he just quickened his death sentence. But be executed is better than suicide imo Roll Eyes
hero member
Activity: 2702
Merit: 704
Bitcoin is GOD
August 22, 2015, 11:47:24 PM
#68
It's impossible to stop people of offing themselves. What are they going to do, force feed him? And even if they do that. He can stop eating and the cycle begins all over again.
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