Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1573. (Read 3049505 times)

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I could spend hours digging up more, but no bother, I'm just a bit sad we are indeed behind now. Those of us who were in the first 890 preorder, were told we would get our machines in september, and were told several times they are on track for "september delivery", which has somehow turned into "Shipping in September"

Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, ad nuseum...

Speculation. Speculation. Speculation.

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You enjoy that speculation?

It doesn't mean anything.

Most of the FUD comes from comparing KNC to other companies.

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If KNC ship on or before 30th Sept, they have kept their big promise. No one knows if they will or not, so everything else is speculation.

As I said a page back, better to stick to the facts we have and wait for updates (from KNC directly, or from Bitcoinorama who says he is going to Sweden tomorrow and will report back with facts and pictures/videos).

turned off ignore on Xialla....and remembered why it was turned on.  I need to stop being a sucker for updates on this thread.

I think someone just withdrew from the fan club...

... I can imagine a future in which the hardware that secures the network is warming our homes and our water, and I like it

It would look like he is incorrect.  Residential customers may be partially subsidized but they still pay more per kWh.  Then again with residential rates @ $15 per kWh in the long run it is unlikely they will be profitable.  Even leasing warehouse space to get large commercial rates wouldn't make much sense as they are still $0.09 per kWh.  There are parts of the US where large commercial power users pay <$0.03 per kWh.

http://www.nspower.ca/en/home/residential/billing/powerrates/default.aspx

I'm sorry guys & gals, but this time Xallia & Crumbs are right.

When I ordered, It was for September DELIVERY, not September shipping.

Call it what you will... Fact is...   Come Monday... If the miners are not delivered... The miners are late.

hi

speaking about that wasted heat, have you heard about pelletier's modules (used with the seebeck effect)
...or you can also make electricity with piss too ...
it's also free but it's not generated by the computer

... I can imagine a future in which the hardware that secures the network is warming our homes and our water, and I like it

One also has to consider the geopolitical risk as well.  Ask companies how much they lost when Chavez started nationalizing foreign assets in Venezuela.

An individual will NEVER be able to be as efficient as a corporation in a business as is BTC mining as its currently conceived.

Never is a strong word.  A company may have cheaper power and mining hardware (although I think in time margins will be so compressed it won't be much cheaper) but it has more expensive "everything else."  Imagine a hypothetical miner in 2015.   He buys mining boards (which by now are very low margin) he constructs his own case/frame powers it from his old ATX power supply, and puts it next to a window with a box fan.  Additional cost beyond hashing equipment and power: ~$0.00.

You can't do that for a PH/s or more.  Take the price of the business property lease, add in employees, add in security (you aren't going to leave you $50M in miners alone at night are you), add in insurance cost, add in fire suppression (might be mandatory in some areas), throw in business taxes, and pile on the additional energy and capital costs for 800 KW of industrial chillers, etc.   Even mundane stuff like enough racks to mount 1 PH/s (you aren't going to just leave them on the floor are you, and the cost of an electrician to run enough drops to power 1,000 or more systems all add up.  All those are Diseconomies of scale.  The company may be cheaper but GH/s but it isn't 10x cheaper like the raw power costs might suggest.  The last thing to consider is cost of capital.  After this gold rush period is over mining isn't a particularly attractive venture from a risk vs reward point of view.  Many investors may look at the small reward, the outsized risk, and the fact that profits are largely determined by the actions of outsiders and simply pass on the millions necessary to build up such a mining farm.


One thing I am particularly interested in is using the "waste heat".  For a large operation (say 1 PH/s = 800 KW = 1 million BTU/hr) they have a lot of waste heat but it has no value.  It actually has negative value as the company will spend money both on hardware and energy to remove that heat.  On the other hand a home user could use waste heat to preheat hot water (free hot water for the rest of your life), and in the winter supplement heating the residence.  With GPU rigs they are too bulky, complex, and skill intensive.  However take some ASICS put them in a compact sealed box, cold water in, hot water out and that "waste heat" suddenly has value.  I am doing some experiments right now.  Interesting stuff.

That being said I do believe large commercial players will make up a significant portion of the network capacity in the future.  I still think hobbyists and small home farmers will exist however they will be in areas of the world with lower than average energy prices (<$0.10 per kWh), generally cooler climates, and may look to thinks like using waste heat to boost ROI%.

It would look like he is incorrect.  Residential customers may be partially subsidized but they still pay more per kWh.  Then again with residential rates @ $15 per kWh in the long run it is unlikely they will be profitable.  Even leasing warehouse space to get large commercial rates wouldn't make much sense as they are still $0.09 per kWh.  There are parts of the US where large commercial power users pay <$0.03 per kWh.

http://www.nspower.ca/en/home/residential/billing/powerrates/default.aspx

I think someone just withdrew from the fan club...

thanks. much appreciate this statement..

I totally agree on this, but they have exponential higher fixed costs (AC, rent, maintenance, staff) as well, while income drops at same rate as it does for us.

Nevertheless, as I said before, I had the same thoughts as you guys, but in the meantime I think energy costs are negligible,

 considering risks,

possible profit, legal questions,

management overhead,

security,

staff and maintenance cost of large scale bitcoin mining operations,

there are easier ways to make money and I'm not so sure if small-time miners won't get their second chance in the not so far future - and this persistently.

Where do you get electricity cheaper for industrial use than for residential use?

I was told that around here (Nova Scotia) home users are in effect subsidised, if you go industrial you not only pay more but also, if you go big, will end up needing three-phase and such which is more expensive again.

I guess in "screw the poor" nations though they wouldn't be subsidising home users?

("If they want light, let them stay at work!" )

(Maybe it might also have to do with the fact you seem to need electricity in order to get a residence permit saying the building is fit for people to live in.)

-MarkM-