Paypal blocked Kncminer 
fear monger !!
Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1915. (Read 3049501 times)
Paypal blocked Kncminer
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dubbio-su-kncminer-business-use-only-263683
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dubbio-su-kncminer-business-use-only-263683
I guess the question I have is... what is the chance of getting a hole-in-one with their first stab at the chip. It seems that bitfury missed his target by about 50% in performance, but it is still a useful chip and they are going with it.
The question is... can KnC/OrSoC get it all right the first time around. Will they be able to work with it if their chip only does 50% performance. They probably have enough profit margin to be able to product send twice as many units out to folks (like BFL Big Rigs) if performance was 1/2, but would they have enough chips? I think also being from the U.S. of A., I don't want to have to deal with whatever VAT or Euro centric issues there are (and that is some of my own irrational baggage).
The question is... can KnC/OrSoC get it all right the first time around. Will they be able to work with it if their chip only does 50% performance. They probably have enough profit margin to be able to product send twice as many units out to folks (like BFL Big Rigs) if performance was 1/2, but would they have enough chips? I think also being from the U.S. of A., I don't want to have to deal with whatever VAT or Euro centric issues there are (and that is some of my own irrational baggage).
The units are modular, so with the possible exception of Jupiters they would just need to add more modules.
One reason I went with them in the first place, good logical design.
I was hoping that maybe the modules themselves may be easily swappable to upgrade on site in the future...adding or replacing a module in future would be a very useful thing for us to be able to do and a big time and cost saver all round wouldn't it?
There is no VAT outside of the EU. There's a calculator for duty linked a few pages back by me if that worries you and others have researched that too..I think the U.S. does better than we do on that front.
I guess the question I have is... what is the chance of getting a hole-in-one with their first stab at the chip.
Also all these parties have to communicate and work together:
KnC <-> ORSoC <-> unknown FPGA-ASIC conversion house <-> unknown ASIC vendor
There are so many things which can go wrong when you make an ASIC. Getting it right the first time is hard.
The default assumptions on that calculator need to be questioned.
I don’t think it is possible to write a calculator that would predict at which difficulty people will start shutting down their ASICS and the difficulty will stop growing. IMO the calculator by The Genesis Block is a “pessimistic” variant which was really necessary because all calculators that accounted for difficulty increase lacked the delayed mining start parameter. Still, I think in a year it gives quite accurate prediction because a long time, much longer than a year has to pass before the hashrate race is over.
The default assumptions on that calculator need to be questioned. It basically says by the end of the year no ASICs out there will be returning a profit. If that is the case then people will simply switch them off and the difficulty will stop rising.
They won't switch them all off at once, the Avalon and ASICminer chip based ones will be the first, as they are the least power efficient.
I appreciate it, I just wanted to know where it was from so I could mess with it, pretty nice.
Doff
Yeah, I was just answering the question. I'm not happy with that calculator either. Among other things, it assumes a constant rate of increase in difficulty. At the default settings, that means the difficulty a year from now would be 200x the current value. I think that's a tad extreme, and probably unrealistic. Lowering the Difficulty Increase/month from 62% to 52% means it would be 100x the current difficulty after a year. A small change can make a big difference when compounded over a year.
Aside from that, it limits its profitability calculations to one year.
The default assumptions on that calculator need to be questioned. It basically says by the end of the year no ASICs out there will be returning a profit. If that is the case then people will simply switch them off and the difficulty will stop rising.
They won't switch them all off at once, the Avalon and ASICminer chip based ones will be the first, as they are the least power efficient.
Aside from that, it limits its profitability calculations to one year.
The default assumptions on that calculator need to be questioned. It's like one of those Al Gore climate fear charts. It basically says by the end of the year no ASICs out there will be returning a profit. If that is the case then people will simply switch them off and the difficulty will stop rising.
They won't switch them all off at once, the Avalon and ASICminer chip based ones will be the first, as they are the least power efficient.
I question their difficulty projections.
What it does tell me is the days of $50/GH/s are over, to remain competitive ASIC manufactures are going to be looking at offering product below $20/GH/s or they are going to fade away.
Where do I find that really nice calculator?
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ 
you missed the point where no one has to dance for you... you didn't read and you ask 1000 questions.. you can put a mirror on the floor and look up your ass for your answers.. ok?
OK, I understand it is difficult to you admit facts... Even if that means answer "no".
yes facts.. the one that is true is that you are a troll.. with big questions like 5 year old asking daddy why is the sun yellow.. but why daddy, why is it yellow..and the next, why does your pants stinks.. yes you have to change diaper..
you enjoy this?? dumb answers to dumb questions? ask away more dumb things.. lets all feed the troll here, it is such a new thing in year 2013 to walk into thread and be classic drunk ass in town no??
oh wait.. one more thing.. yes... oh wait.. yes it was the same as before.. circle circle around and around same things but no it is not.. you follow more?? keep reading since you know i will say something for you to eat troll.. just wait.. there will be something just keep reading.. mmm.. wait more food keep reading and there over in the next yard.. go fetch it.. yes it is the facts you want.. almost there..
just some more reading.. please keep reading.. all the answers are here.. just wait a bit.. more is coming..
I makes me laugh that the pressure on companies to get ASICs out the door fast, to get in before the diff rate rapidly increases, is exactly what is causing the rapid diff rate increases in the first place. A typical unsustainable approach. If we took out time and showed a little patience we would all be better off.
If they deliver in sept.. but who knows sept could be sept 31st still
the longer we wait as a community for stuff the harder it is to make an ROI.. not impossible, esp people who pay for power..
So what ever company Knc, company b, c or d.. so prices need to come down on hardware.. I know boxes dont cost 7k to make
anyhow.. Yup might be more accurate to look at Oct 2013... and even Nov 2013 since maybe half the orders are going to be delivered by end of Oct (supposedly)
You can't just make a single prototype ASIC chip, you have to have a whole wafer made, and I don't even think you can get that done individually by a fab anyway.
The only way to have a 'working prototype' would be to have an 'early batch' of a few hundred machines in September, then wait three months for the rest of the orders. What's the point in doing that?
The only way to have a 'working prototype' would be to have an 'early batch' of a few hundred machines in September, then wait three months for the rest of the orders. What's the point in doing that?
Uh... Perhaps to ensure they will deliver "Jupiter" instead of "Mars" to all customers which paid in advance?
I guess the question I have is... what is the chance of getting a hole-in-one with their first stab at the chip. It seems that bitfury missed his target by about 50% in performance, but it is still a useful chip and they are going with it.
The question is... can KnC/OrSoC get it all right the first time around. Will they be able to work with it if their chip only does 50% performance. They probably have enough profit margin to be able to product send twice as many units out to folks (like BFL Big Rigs) if performance was 1/2, but would they have enough chips? I think also being from the U.S. of A., I don't want to have to deal with whatever VAT or Euro centric issues there are (and that is some of my own irrational baggage).
Those are the questions/issues that are keeping me on the sidelines until they have a chip with characterized performance. That said, you guys who are willing to take a bigger risk are likely to reap a bigger reward (if it pans out) -- and I wish you luck.
It is so nice to see so many promising companies with products coming available in the short term.
The question is... can KnC/OrSoC get it all right the first time around. Will they be able to work with it if their chip only does 50% performance. They probably have enough profit margin to be able to product send twice as many units out to folks (like BFL Big Rigs) if performance was 1/2, but would they have enough chips? I think also being from the U.S. of A., I don't want to have to deal with whatever VAT or Euro centric issues there are (and that is some of my own irrational baggage).
Those are the questions/issues that are keeping me on the sidelines until they have a chip with characterized performance. That said, you guys who are willing to take a bigger risk are likely to reap a bigger reward (if it pans out) -- and I wish you luck.
It is so nice to see so many promising companies with products coming available in the short term.
just a fyi to all..
If they deliver in sept.. but who knows sept could be sept 31st still
the longer we wait as a community for stuff the harder it is to make an ROI.. not impossible, esp people who pay for power..
So what ever company Knc, company b, c or d.. so prices need to come down on hardware.. I know boxes dont cost 7k to make anyhow..
If they deliver in sept.. but who knows sept could be sept 31st still
the longer we wait as a community for stuff the harder it is to make an ROI.. not impossible, esp people who pay for power..
So what ever company Knc, company b, c or d.. so prices need to come down on hardware.. I know boxes dont cost 7k to make
anyhow.. On one side you say the hardware is already over priced but then you predict the mining lemmings to continue the next year at breakneck speed with everyone throwing ROI out the window
Eventually only long term players will bother to mine which will taper the diff curve. Unless AM, et all just want to take all their profits and hand it to the chip makers again and again...
These are not my calculations, its more of a hey, company A get off your ass and make sure your going to deliver in sept cause well diff is only going to get out of control, and yes most people will stop start to drop off but when 1 or 5Th/s is common next year only the big players who spent the cash will be mining..
anyhow more of a can we get some updates on the hardware KNC question than anything.
you missed the point where no one has to dance for you... you didn't read and you ask 1000 questions.. you can put a mirror on the floor and look up your ass for your answers.. ok?
OK, I understand it is difficult to you admit facts... Even if that means answer "no".
You can't just make a single prototype ASIC chip, you have to have a whole wafer made, and I don't even think you can get that done individually by a fab anyway.
The only way to have a 'working prototype' would be to have an 'early batch' of a few hundred machines in September, then wait three months for the rest of the orders. What's the point in doing that?
If you want to wait for proof, go ahead. There's no reason to call KnC a scam. So far, they haven't missed any deadlines.
The only way to have a 'working prototype' would be to have an 'early batch' of a few hundred machines in September, then wait three months for the rest of the orders. What's the point in doing that?
If you want to wait for proof, go ahead. There's no reason to call KnC a scam. So far, they haven't missed any deadlines.
you watched from beginning but missed Mars? or is that not enough for you? they aren't building a pure asic from scratch. The design was proved on Mars so they don't need to dance for you on everystep. They are moving fast. If they fail they fail but it won't be by wasting time with monkeys like you
I love this amazing unrelated names for devices which are just useful to calculate hashes and waste energy! "Mars", "Jupiter", "Saturn", "Mercury"! I wander when the "Pluto" will be finally released. Then will come the might 2nd generation of Bitcoin miners. KnC will release constellations, like "Hercules"!
Yeah, of course I missed the release of the FPGA prototype "Mars", which was just a teasing after all. "Mars" is not going to be produced, just "Jupiter", "Saturn" and "Mercury"!
So, let me be specific, there is any prototype/statement/diagram which indicates the three available miners are being produced in a time frame to be delivered in...
you missed the point where no one has to dance for you... you didn't read and you ask 1000 questions.. you can put a mirror on the floor and look up your ass for your answers.. ok?
just a fyi to all..
If they deliver in sept.. but who knows sept could be sept 31st still
the longer we wait as a community for stuff the harder it is to make an ROI.. not impossible, esp people who pay for power..
So what ever company Knc, company b, c or d.. so prices need to come down on hardware.. I know boxes dont cost 7k to make anyhow..
If they deliver in sept.. but who knows sept could be sept 31st still
the longer we wait as a community for stuff the harder it is to make an ROI.. not impossible, esp people who pay for power..
So what ever company Knc, company b, c or d.. so prices need to come down on hardware.. I know boxes dont cost 7k to make
anyhow.. On one side you say the hardware is already over priced but then you predict the mining lemmings to continue the next year at breakneck speed with everyone throwing ROI out the window
Eventually only long term players will bother to mine which will taper the diff curve. Unless AM, et all just want to take all their profits and hand it to the chip makers again and again...
you watched from beginning but missed Mars? or is that not enough for you? they aren't building a pure asic from scratch. The design was proved on Mars so they don't need to dance for you on everystep. They are moving fast. If they fail they fail but it won't be by wasting time with monkeys like you
I love this amazing unrelated names for devices which are just useful to calculate hashes and waste energy! "Mars", "Jupiter", "Saturn", "Mercury"! I wander when the "Pluto" will be finally released. Then will come the might 2nd generation of Bitcoin miners. KnC will release constellations, like "Hercules"!
Yeah, of course I missed the release of the FPGA prototype "Mars", which was just a teasing after all. "Mars" is not going to be produced, just "Jupiter", "Saturn" and "Mercury"!
So, let me be specific, there is any prototype/statement/diagram which indicates the three available miners are being produced in a time frame to be delivered in...
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