Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 206. (Read 3049514 times)

KNC 'customer care' policies contrast sharply with best practices in modern industry.

As an example, I ordered a gaming headset from Amazon a couple of weeks ago. After a few days it quit working. I filed for a refund and they supplied a UPS label. Within 2 hours of the UPS driver picking up my return I had an email from Amazon saying that they had credited my account for the refund. Yes, you read that right. Within 2 hours of the UPS driver picking up my package for delivery.

I'll be sure to purchase from Amazon again.

And I'll be sure to do everything I can to make sure that anyone considering purchasing a KNC product understands that they are very likely to receive a faulty, unreliable and unsafe product and that if they do KNC's notion of 'best practices' in customer care are to ignore difficult questions and avoid refunds at any cost to their reputation.

I think 8 GB would be plenty.

You're completely right! They offered a Titan in a Jupiter case and not 4 single cubes. So I guess they are in big trouble because all batch 1 customers got bananas instead of oranges

BTW Does anybody know why my Titan doesn't start anymore after a failed reboot?

Can you believe this shit?

QFMFT.

Business or no business. KNC can't promise to sell you an orange then ship you a banana. Or in this case a lemon. But as they are bunch of greedy arseholes it will probably take legal action to remedy this.

Selling it on Ebay is probably the path to the smallest loss

Still knc not respond this issue, they are really firm.

Or may be they just setting thing right for us, hope they can ship all orders next week with right version, cheers!

by the way seeings how supposedly the micro SD cards or whatever that come with the Titan are crap ...I should just probably flash a replacement
before the Titan even ships (have instructions for that)

would this be what I want (have no frigging clue on SD card stuff)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SanDisk-64GB-microSDXC-64G-microSD-Extreme-45MB-micro-SD-SDXC-UHS-Class-10-R10W-/181560033032?pt=US_Cellphone_Memory_Cards&hash=item2a45d23f08

if so I may just get one now and flash it ahead of time.....in that you go to www.kncforums.com and the ones KNC sends seem to all degrade over time

i gather the above class 10 is the best i can get and I also assume 64gb is good or do I need something bigger or something else entirely?

thanks post here for others in my boat on playing 'guess wtf is gonna go wrong next" with your Titan order (already got the www.shakmods.com 16awg cables that MAY
help? or not)

only can do what I can do in anticipation of the doorstop/space heater NO refund NO ROI Titan when it arrives don't ya know

thank god I can take 1/4 of the purchase price back in equip depreciation over 5 yrs as a virtual currencey biz under IRS quidelines 2013
(for those equip heavy talk to a CPA you may want to go legal ..me was stuck into it due
to prove i was legit on bank error...but wtf do i know with btc price tanked and if you have enough equip or titan(s) maybe your CPA would say go legal fyi)

Searing

it is pics like this that make me wonder if I should just put the Titan up on ebay unopened in box as in hand and just sell it

currently $4,800 usd seems to be the price for such according to ebay when I looked today

frigging take the $$$ put it in bitcoin and pray it all works out....

and remember I am a LEGAL miner in the USA (due to bank error had to prove I was legit and biz took 1 day but had to file to be on the up and up)

I CAN get 1/4 of my 10,131.80 purchase price back of $2532.95 back over 5 years according to 2013 irs guidelines (computer equip)

but lately looking at this crap even if I got it and it only mined half assed (say 1/4 purchase price back mining) and the above...it prob would not amount

to more then 4.8k anyway ..so why go thru all that angst to get to the same boat plus elec of around $140 usd a month at 1300w at 0.15c/kwh

KNC is going to fight this in court till the 'heat death of the universe" to protect their reputation to get arctic cloud class A and B big $$$ investors

this is also imho why no one ..coindesk ..the rest of btc press...or lawyers don't want to fight KNC they will never 'settle' thus no easy $$ for a class
action or such

with a 90 day warranty..and from the lack of effort getting the Titans fixed...(look at the git hub archives on knc firmware have done zip)

they are just gonna get them out the door 1/2 assed working imho ...tell you to RMA if you don't like it (with email saying they have no idea when
you get the cube(s) back ...and basically wait for the 90 day warrenty to wind down and walk

nothing makes sense otherwise.....with no refunds and the you are a business defense (and no replies to email if you ever send them and email saying you want
a refund ..good luck on RMA then)...they are just letting the rubber band wind down 90 days....and then they will wash hands of the works completely

remember with BTC down ..them working on 16mm for their actic cloud..the danger to not getting investors class A and class B on said farm and the rest

no frigging way..they will fight this till their last breath...thus the lack of swedish lawyers and others that will touch this...

i just see no way we can get redress in time with their 90 day warrenty and just stonewalling....by them..they have all the cards it seems ....pressure
via PR or the press or whatever does not matter......they MUST protect their class A and class B investors and say we are full of it....at current BTC
prices..they likely are not doing too hot at that end either

hope I am completely wrong but nothing seems to be breaking our way ......indeed the equip looks crappier (likely won't last past 90 days) and they
already have been deleting my posts on knc forums and threatened to ban me for spreading FUD as they put it...

(i asked if 90 warrenty could be started after they got the firmware stable.....sheesh.....that is gonna get me the threat of banning ..i've said worse on there)

so it is all about $$$ they plain ass probably don't have any to give back and are likley plain ass scared if they admit failure it would put their arcitc cloud

big boy investors on edge

nope unless there is some Swedish equiv of FTC or some such that steps in ...they will play this out till the 90 days wind down and walk w/o something
like that...they have no reason at all do worry about our efforts

again I really hope I'm full of it...the more we squeak (even reasonable how long to RMA when does the 90 day TOS change started etc) they just clamp

down harder...if they had any sense at all they would close down their forums completely only NON reply via email and isolate us all (expect that soon imho)

photo storage

Well I thought I was ok with 2 PSU with stock AWG16 pci-e cables.

Above pic was from Strider 1200 Gold with stock AWG16 cables. It was running 2 of my 4 KNC Titan cubes.

@cryptodevil
You are absolutely right. But the main question is whether  KnC can unilateraly declare their clients are not consumers even if they put  in TandC that it is a business transaction. In other words is it possible to strip a person from their consumer protection rights? Even the banks have problems with it when it comes to filthy rich people;) I do not think it is possible given EU Directives but we need to see a counsel's opinion on that.

My personal view is that consumer's protection prevails.  This is simply more beneficial for the market of the products as a whole, provides more reliability on the part of the producers etc. I see no reason for any exemption.

Well, you may be right about this company, I don't know all the facts, but in general I think the principle of "caveat emptor" applies when dealing with commercial transactions such as this.  For example, did KNC have better prices than the competition?  Well there might be a reason for that, see my views here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9205822   (Butterfly Labs thread)

There seems to be a great deal of misunderstanding as to what the B2B aspect of a Titan purchase actually means. Just because the B2C consumer laws might not be applicable, in that you can't just cancel your order because you changed your mind about it, it doesn't mean that KnC are allowed to ship a faulty product and roundly declare 'no refunds'.

The whole 'no refunds' aspect is for when a company has held up its end of the transaction but the consumer wants to cancel anyway. Under B2C they would still be able to cancel, whereas for B2B they would not.

But if a company is shipping shoddy, badly performing hardware, due to design or component failure, they can't just keep repeating 'no refunds'. Otherwise we could all set up shop as producers of gadget X which will [insert claim here] to a particular performance standard of [insert performance speed here] and then just buy in some cheap crap which barely functions to ship out to our gullible customers while crowing about how they don't get to complain because, well, "B2B, No Refunds, Bitches!!!!!11".

That's not what 'no refunds' regarding a B2B transaction means.

KnC fail to meet the standards required in this transaction. It is not their place to hide behind 'no refunds' as people are not cancelling on a whim, they are doing so because the product is not performing how they originally claimed it would when they took the orders and the money.

what they say does not constitute a mutually valid contract. At least you would need to sign a waiver of your consumer rights at the purchase. I know it is in TandC to some extent. It reads:

1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business.

So it does not waive the consumer's rights strictly. I doubt it is possible to change someone's status by including this in their TandC. In my opinion it owuld not have any effect. Moreover KnC has confirmed it is running a business for the consumers in respect of the cloud mining and consumer's rights are clear cut there.

This would actually create a sort of double standards as those who hosted with KnC may be consumers and those who asked for delivery not but let's leave it for the judge.

The issue with power supply is irrelevant. I can buy a toy in the shop and it has no battery. I can buy a computer that needs PSU and will be protected.

The thing with 14 days return is correct. I demanded it and received no response at all. In my case these were Jupiters in 2013.

The evidence KNC has screwed people is so large I cannot see why there would not be a lawyer that would go after them, they made 200 million off the backs of us, the peoples money.

This is no small potatoes crime here, it's huge. You can buy some cars for the price of one of these KNC titans they have not shipped or if they have don't work.

I think it's safe to say, with such large amount of evidence of wrongdoing, WHY wouldn't a lawyer get involved? This would be a big case with very very large settlement. So what if KNC has money for lawyers, the pile of $$$ that they are sitting on is 1/5 billion dollars just in one year alone.

Yeah, these guys need to be taken down, plain and simple. We need more press releases on this situation.

Wel....

Take it easy with NOVA.

I got a letter from them and they are asking for the money first. No word of the client care policy, no win no fee or anything. Lets wait before we embark on this.

I don't disagree I just think that KNC has the $$$ to stop this all in its tracks for YEARS....via lawyers etc

I mean we can't even get www.coinbase.com to make a report on KNC actions.....with that as an example ...they did not even go after BFL till recently

the bitcoin press needs to get on this ..but no one wants to piss off the big giant KNC corp

and don't forget most Titan and 3rd batch owners only have 90 day warrenty...KNC just has to string this along so long till the warrenty runs out

and the way the stuff seems to be built seems very likely they may barely last 90 days of kinda working

again with the buiness designation the only option is to sue for damages etc let the courts work it out which is why knc calls bitcoin mining a buinsess in the first place

again they blindsided us by going to the dark side quickly this last year.....and likely will never admit they did anything wrong in as to not

put in jeopardy their large class A and class B multi million dollar arctic cloud investors catching wind of this scam....thus they will tie this up in court forever imho


on a side note

the problem also is if the dang Titan worked at 300mh ....did multi-pool.....could handle new fast block coins w/o locking up....did not catch on fire...did not have
the constant reboots and dead die issues.....etc

we STILL likely would have gotten only 1/2 our purchase price back under the above no refund we are a business scenario


the fact that they are shoving a product that does not work out the door asap to get under their timeline they set...offering no support except that it is the 'pools fault' tm knc
denying that anything is wrong...is the real slap in the face....it shows knc's true colors that they can't even live up to their own business to business options

they are out of consumer product biz ..they plain don't give a f*ck about customers of their last bit of equipment....

that is what puts it over the top for me...the DENIAL that they have issues ..just ship the shitty product out anyway..it only has a 90 day warrenty by the time you send it back after fiddling around with their supposed fixes or attempst to fix say 3wks to month shot..lose another month on RMA get it back still don't work..you have 1 month left on warrenty no reason to ship it back ..by that point your screwed with a non-working device that will never really work anyway

90 warranty done knc walks.... again they offer no idea on when you get your product back when you RMA it...you could rma a cube back and not get it back till dec 2014 for example
assuming they really really tried to fix it to cover their ass..which at that point it is all moot anyway

so again even if we had a working product we'd be way way down to 1/2 of purchase price recovered...under current situation...w/o any real support from KNC we all will be lucky
limping along with some cubes that work at say 150mh speed etc ..baby sitting the unit to get 1/4 of our purchase price back

with NO RECOURSE from a consumer protection point of view with this fly by night 90 day warrenty clicking past imho

by the by I asked KNC if I was under the 90 day warranty (march 27th) or 1 year warranty...they said it depends WHEN  you ordered and what the TOS says..they of course refuse to state
when the TOS was changed from 1 year to 90 days..in that their current TOS is 90 days ...would not want to clear that up ...in case someone with a 1 year warrenty was to
try to RMA something after 90 days look at the tos and assume he could not

and then again when you ask KNC could just plain ass lie and use any date they wanted to say NOPE your not under it

so anyone have any real idea on when they changed the TOS...i'm sure they know..but they sure as hell won't tell me ..just a line of " if the TOS said 1 year when you ordered you have 1 year" email reply

well we will see what the next couple weeks bring..this last week it is the fact the crappy SD cards they use are failing and no real fix since 1.04 (which don't work I gather)

this could continue to degrade to even more of a farce it equip continues to fail at this rate

whatever...please post a link of a good link to a good brand SD card type 10 is it? I have instructions on how supposedly to do this...but no idea what type 10 sd cards means etc

probably should get one or two of them and flash them in anticipation of the crappy ones they will send and just be prepared

FML

Searing


 

they say it is a business to business transaction..... under EU law


from what I understand this includes experimental devices or devices not suitable for consumers (bitcoin miners are not a big consumer product)

anyway others on here have posted such...they can chime in

but essentially imho that is why knc is saying it is a biz to biz transaction..the fact we have to supply our own power supply (not what a consumer would expect)
bitcoin miners (not a traditinal consumer product) the fact we agreed in the TOS....they fact KNC states all bitcoin mining is a buiness no one does it for a hobby

anyway others feel free to hop  on here..but that is the POSITION knc is taking imho

not that it flies well imho ..but they are resisting all efforts to conform to consumer law in the EU ....sucessful or not that is the track they have been taking

from what I can tell from posts here and on knc forums and such

I'd like to be wrong by the by..... but don't think they are gonna budge from that or we could just send back the units w/in 14 days under what I think is EU
consumer law...if you do so now knc states they simply will send it back and charge you postage w/o accepting it...this is also true of any RMA you send
w/o getting permission to sent it to them first

Did they advertise it as experimental products? You cannot sell experimental products to the consumers no matter what label you put on the box.
The problem is that this has to be yet assessed by a judge. Apart from consumer's protection there are unfair market practices.

The only problem I see is to whether KnC customers are consumers. That's a preliminary issue that needs to be resolved as first.

DEFINITION OF 'UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICE'
Using various deceptive, fraudulent or unethical methods to obtain business. Unfair trade practices include misrepresentation, false advertising, tied selling and other acts that are declared unlawful by statute. It can also be referred to as deceptive trade practices.

actually the fact the titans are NOT working etc strenghtens KNC's case that this is a business to business transaction and as such these are experimental devices etc not ready for the consumers...so broken products only makes their "this is not a consumer product thus not protected under EU consumer laws" even more solid

quite smart on their part actually

as far as I can tell from knc forums and here...NO ONE that has got on and 'crowed' that his Titan is working FLAWLESSLY at 300mh on anything.....so you'd THINK if KNC was telling the truth and problems are the exception with the Titan someone would be on crowing about how 'they are kicking a*s with their working miner and the rest of us are out of luck

I have seen NO such post..those that DO work seem to only work (for a while) on the LTC pool and at around 150mh to 175mh with frequent downtimes

again the above is what I can tell of the units that WORK

as to the rest it is bad SD card..bad cube ...etc etc with ONLY option according to KNC is to "change pools" TM KNC or send it back as a RMA issue (and their emails state
if you do people have posted....they have no idea when they will send your unit back in that they are swamped)

my own view is they are not 'shipping' because they are getting more units back then they usually could ship and quite frankly don't know wtf is going on yet with what is
wrong with the Titans

they have sorta acknowledged that the SD cards commonly need to be reflashed.....I know zip about this can someone point me to a link of a good SD card to get and type 10 or
whatever I'm supposed to buy? I may just want to have one flashed and ready before the doorstop/space heater Titan arrived (know zip about diff flavors or whatever for SD cards)

we be soooo screwed....I'm at a loss of even what to say/do with this mess...from quality control to parts to equip errors on mnfg to just plain sh*tty product...it just seems
to be spiraling down ...it kinda looks like that damn things won't work more the 90 days under any circumstances...

experimental product  indeed so no refunds business to business transaction ...not suitable or covered by consumer laws as a result

well played KNC well played....