Taxless society idea - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Smartprofit

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Quote from: BitunaTeam on August 25, 2019, 05:21:07 PM

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

Can a social society function without taxes? Probably yes.

However, for this it is necessary to change the mechanism of distribution of public goods. Now in most countries the social system is capitalism. The basis of capitalism is surplus value and credit. Capitalism needs inflationary money.

Under capitalism, it is necessary to redistribute public goods from more successful participants in social relations to less successful ones. This requires a developed tax collection system.

However, capitalism is not the only possible social order. There is socialism, feudalism, slave society, communism, etc. Some of them allow deflationary assets to be used as the main legal tender.

It could be Bitcoin, Litecoin, or (for example) gold.

Xinarae*

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Since historical times the govt has been imposing taxes on the people. the govt cannot function without taxes. The people are motivated by the budget on the idea of adequate taxes. The damage done to the country by the govt alone can never be recovered. government revenue has decreased, expenditure has increased for this reason, the govt is taking the foremost loans from the banking industry. the govt will spend money on loans by increasing the quantity of interest and VAT.

Ucy

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Quote from: Ozero on December 04, 2020, 12:39:02 AM

Throughout its historical development, mankind has repeatedly tried to establish a more just model of building social governance. Many rebellious masses of people and their organizers tried to establish a more just society without taxes and means of coercion. All of them were able to exist for a very short time. The current structure of society is the result of thousands of years of accumulated experience. To finance public needs, able-bodied citizens must contribute in taxes. There is no other way yet.

I normally see tax as a form of contributions (especially financially) by people for the well-being of their society. It's Just if done and used right. It gives you a sense of belonging knowing that your contributions is used to develop your society and that the society is not owned by people or companies that do all the contributions.
Tax should be fair though and shouldn't be imposed on people who don't deserve to be taxed.

Vaskiy

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Tax-less Society idea won't get implemented in the near future or after long years. Each and every country government function with the tax revenue through different sectors. To the paid tax, there is no proper return or development support from the government. This is where people refuse to pay taxes and prefer the possible ways to overcome the taxation.

Mauser

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Quote from: Ozero on December 04, 2020, 12:39:02 AM

Throughout its historical development, mankind has repeatedly tried to establish a more just model of building social governance. Many rebellious masses of people and their organizers tried to establish a more just society without taxes and means of coercion. All of them were able to exist for a very short time. The current structure of society is the result of thousands of years of accumulated experience. To finance public needs, able-bodied citizens must contribute in taxes. There is no other way yet.

Taxes have been a part of western culture for thousands of years. The weren't called taxes but had different names with the same meaning. You had to give away a part of your production to the lord or king of your area, and in return he offers you protection. In todays world security and protection comes more in a financial form that with soldiers, but police is still an important part of society. Without taxes all these services couldn't be afforded.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: Ozero on December 04, 2020, 12:39:02 AM

Throughout its historical development, mankind has repeatedly tried to establish a more just model of building social governance. Many rebellious masses of people and their organizers tried to establish a more just society without taxes and means of coercion. All of them were able to exist for a very short time. The current structure of society is the result of thousands of years of accumulated experience. To finance public needs, able-bodied citizens must contribute in taxes. There is no other way yet.

The government can't function without taxes. If direct taxes are not there, then indirect taxes are required. Only a very few countries have managed to phase out taxes completely. Examples are oil rich countries such as United Arab Emirates, and island nations such as Bermuda and Bahamas. But these countries have other sources of income, and therefore tax revenue is not necessary.

Ozero

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Throughout its historical development, mankind has repeatedly tried to establish a more just model of building social governance. Many rebellious masses of people and their organizers tried to establish a more just society without taxes and means of coercion. All of them were able to exist for a very short time. The current structure of society is the result of thousands of years of accumulated experience. To finance public needs, able-bodied citizens must contribute in taxes. There is no other way yet.

FlightyPouch

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Quote from: huige007 on December 30, 2019, 10:15:36 AM

Quote from: senin on December 27, 2019, 12:24:50 AM

In the history of mankind there have been many cases when people tried to create, as it seemed to them, a more just society without taxes. All of them were defeated, because financing of common needs is necessary in any society. Another thing is how to effectively use taxes, but this is another matter.

Most of the people are in favor of taxes but the issue is they don’t trust governments most of the times with their money as corrupt politicians use them for their own purposes and needs. This is important for running a society that rich people pay some money or give it to poor to help them meeting their basic human needs and this is what taxes are supposed to do. Everybody would like to pays taxes if they know where they are being used.

Well, it is not that we don't trust the government but the thing is that they are giving us something as proof that they are corrupt government officials. Instead of using that for the country, they are putting it in their pockets for their personal needs. As far as I know, they also show where they spend the money of the people but sometimes there are trivial things being paid there. well not actually the item but the paid money is just hilarious.

Mauser

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Quote from: aiguy on September 05, 2020, 11:30:56 AM

it is good idea to be a taxless society, through this, society will be rich, there will be lot if job, poverty will be eresed, but one thing will be weak, that the government

Not sure if poverty will be erased when there is are no taxes. In times of crisis like we have at the moment a lot of people rely on government support. If you receive the minimum wage you are getting benefits from the government. Without taxes the government has no income to support families. Who will help out if you lose your job? Without the government in place we would need other forms of support. Saying that everything will be better without taxes seems a bit unrealistic to me. Also what about police or firefighters? They are all being paid by taxes through the government. I think we would be worse off without taxes completely.

aiguy

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it is good idea to be a taxless society, through this, society will be rich, there will be lot if job, poverty will be eresed, but one thing will be weak, that the government

DaftAjax

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Quote from: bitbunnny on December 25, 2019, 12:02:01 PM

Taxless society is utopia. Governments and local communities need to financed by citizens and if you ask me citizens need to contribute to wellfare of community they live.
Honestly, I don't see how development of technologies can contribute for taxation not to be implemented. Maybe through blockchain it can help to become more transparent

If we are really planning on having a taxless society, we have to eliminate the root of it all--money. But you could imagine what would happen by then. Basically, the tax is a form of "combined" effort, so the government could do something for the country and its people. You may not realize this but people are driven by personal gains. Whatever their goals may be, mostly it's for their own good. So when people gain power, they tend to do things that is beyond, or should I say, it's not in their position anymore to execute such actions.

Transparency has its own disadvantages, and trust me its not a good thing. Even if the government implements blockchain technology, it still does not assure the people if the government doesn't commit any illegal actions.

huige007

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Quote from: senin on December 27, 2019, 12:24:50 AM

In the history of mankind there have been many cases when people tried to create, as it seemed to them, a more just society without taxes. All of them were defeated, because financing of common needs is necessary in any society. Another thing is how to effectively use taxes, but this is another matter.

Most of the people are in favor of taxes but the issue is they don’t trust governments most of the times with their money as corrupt politicians use them for their own purposes and needs. This is important for running a society that rich people pay some money or give it to poor to help them meeting their basic human needs and this is what taxes are supposed to do. Everybody would like to pays taxes if they know where they are being used.

go1lo2va3

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Quote from: Shimmiry on December 27, 2019, 01:46:34 AM

Quote from: senin on December 27, 2019, 12:24:50 AM

In the history of mankind there have been many cases when people tried to create, as it seemed to them, a more just society without taxes. All of them were defeated, because financing of common needs is necessary in any society. Another thing is how to effectively use taxes, but this is another matter.

I think taxless society can happen because today of the way how does the country earn is by the tax they collected to the people and use those tax to build a lot of things that the people needed to live well. Today we have a different job and a different salary, the fee depends on our status in life and our salary, the more salary we have, the more taxes we pay. Like in cryptocurrency if we hold a lot of coins, it has a huge payment too because those transactions fee is a payment for using their website or platform to transfer or get your funds. If the country becomes rich, I think this is a possibility that can be taxless now.

Imo taxless country (how you described it) is possible, but it won't last long.
I mean imagine rich country pay for everything society needs. And where do the govs get money from anyway?
They will spend any savings they've had and taxes would be back soon.

Shimmiry

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Quote from: senin on December 27, 2019, 12:24:50 AM

In the history of mankind there have been many cases when people tried to create, as it seemed to them, a more just society without taxes. All of them were defeated, because financing of common needs is necessary in any society. Another thing is how to effectively use taxes, but this is another matter.

I think taxless society can happen because today of the way how does the country earn is by the tax they collected to the people and use those tax to build a lot of things that the people needed to live well. Today we have a different job and a different salary, the fee depends on our status in life and our salary, the more salary we have, the more taxes we pay. Like in cryptocurrency if we hold a lot of coins, it has a huge payment too because those transactions fee is a payment for using their website or platform to transfer or get your funds. If the country becomes rich, I think this is a possibility that can be taxless now.

senin

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In the history of mankind there have been many cases when people tried to create, as it seemed to them, a more just society without taxes. All of them were defeated, because financing of common needs is necessary in any society. Another thing is how to effectively use taxes, but this is another matter.

FlightyPouch

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Quote from: kotik085 on December 24, 2019, 10:30:20 AM

And what is there to watch. Today, many traders and investors live in an unsecured society and this does not interfere with human development.

We are always at risk and that is not just traders and investors but everyone since I don't understand if you are talking about being unsecured in the real world or being in the internet unsecured. Everything could happen and crimes is not always happening offline. I think I agree that when crypto currencies are legalized all over the world, maybe not, government might find a way to tax users.

shield132

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Quote from: bitbunnny on December 25, 2019, 12:02:01 PM

Taxless society is utopia. Governments and local communities need to financed by citizens and if you ask me citizens need to contribute to wellfare of community they live.
So to my opinion the problem is not in taxation but in the way that money is spent and that taxation is fair and reasonable. In some countries there are cases where that money ends in private pockets or is spent on totaly wrong projects and not for the benefit of citizens and community and that is the reason where people have the reason to be angry and not to support taxation.
Honestly, I don't see how development of technologies can contribute for taxation not to be implemented. Maybe through blockchain it can help to become more transparent

I agree with you cause you mentioned correctly, problem is the way money is spent. In a lot of countries it's spend in some people's pocket and I have no idea why do they need so much money, are they eating it instead of real food? No one cares about poor people, only rich ones are prioritized and at the same time no one acts like an alarm to escape from this bad situation, they just adapt on it and continue their life in working of growing someone's pocket.
Also technologies aren't escape from this situation, it can even turn into opposite and make things harder for us.

bitbunnny

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Taxless society is utopia. Governments and local communities need to financed by citizens and if you ask me citizens need to contribute to wellfare of community they live.
So to my opinion the problem is not in taxation but in the way that money is spent and that taxation is fair and reasonable. In some countries there are cases where that money ends in private pockets or is spent on totaly wrong projects and not for the benefit of citizens and community and that is the reason where people have the reason to be angry and not to support taxation.
Honestly, I don't see how development of technologies can contribute for taxation not to be implemented. Maybe through blockchain it can help to become more transparent

huige007

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Quote from: kotik085 on December 24, 2019, 10:30:20 AM

And what is there to watch. Today, many traders and investors live in an unsecured society and this does not interfere with human development.

Unsecured like how? Unsecure financially or physically? Well there is no doubt in this that people are living at the mercy of cruel and corrupt politicians which enjoy making people unsecure financially so they cannot stand against them. We humans always figure out ways of progressing and continuous development no matter what conditions we are facing. Technological development is the one that never stops.

DaftAjax

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Quote from: deisik on December 22, 2019, 05:26:48 AM

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on December 19, 2019, 11:20:23 AM

Quote from: crisanto01 on December 19, 2019, 10:47:28 AM

<....>

It may be technically impossible for now

But from an economic point of view, taxes are not a thing unto itself (read, they are utilitarian), and something which can be implemented in different ways. Taxes are the payment that some or all members of society have to pay for public services which should be equally available to all members of this society (like roads, education, etc)

And it just happens that a government levies and collects these taxes (that's basically why these mandatory payments are called taxes in the first place). In other words, if we can remove the government from the equation without affecting the financial support for the public good, we won't need taxes as we currently perceive them

As long as people believe that we need a government nothing is going to change. As long as the government says what the people wanted to hear, people will still pay taxes. And the government implemented a law against those who don't (sketchy). Rallying doesn't help, even impeachment doesn't help. Politicians can be replaced, even if people successfully convince the congress to impeach someone, someone would just replace that person and the show will still go on. People don't realize that the root of it all was the system, the whole government itself. People are being manipulated by the government into thinking that we can't be a society without a governing body, as if it was a part of society. People forget that the government should serve the people, not the other way around just because of the tax.

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