Test Cricket Prediction and Discussion Thread [self - mod] - page 1153.

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 01, 2019, 02:18:26 AM

Quote from: teosanru on October 01, 2019, 01:09:44 AM

Have a look at this : https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/india-vs-south-africa-old-warrior-on-familiar-turf/story-U8wWzSDzc06RrbOaleR0lK.html
Well contradictory to our opinions here the experts and popular media channels are showing somewhat a different playing XI they are saying that India could go with three pacers and a spinner allrounder between Jadeja or Ashwin. This makes team much more of a batting side with 8 complete batsmen. But I personally feel this is never going to be the case. Going with full 8 batsmen in the Indian subcontinent is like wanting to draw the match instead of winning it. We all know that top 7 Batsmen are suitable to subcontinent conditions and have been in an okayish form. So instead going with two spin all rounders and 6 batsmen could be a batter option.

Another option is to go with 7 batsmen, 2 pacers, 1 spinner and one all rounder (Jadeja). In that case, one additional batsman can be included and the spin responsibility will be shared between Ashwin and Jadeja (with Kuldeep missing out). If the surface offers some support for the pacers, then it won't be a bad idea to go with an extra batsman.

I think this looks like the most viable option to me as of now. If as per experts Indian team is in a mood to stay with 7 proper batsmen then two spinners atleast are required obviously one pacers needs to be compromised in that case. My point is not actually 3 pacers but it is 5 bowlers because India has sort of two allrounds in form of Jadeja & Ashwin.

Quote from: JSRAW on October 01, 2019, 02:17:55 AM

Now its safe to say Wriddhiman Saha is replacing Pant on the first Test game and 99% chance India is going with 2 spinners ( Jadeja-Ashwin) and 2 seamers (Ishant-Shami), Hanuma Vihari is part time bowler.

* Pant out, didn't see that coming tbh. guess for Home games India is looking at Saha as a first choice wicket keeper - Spin wicket - need good WK-

I think problem with saha is his inconsistency and Rishab Pant nowhere solves that problem. Along with that Saha is a great wicket keeper so this seems to me like a good decision. And yes, just as how I discussed above i think it would 2 spinner 2 pacer and 7 batsmen XI India would go for.

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Quote from: teosanru on October 01, 2019, 01:09:44 AM

Have a look at this : https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/india-vs-south-africa-old-warrior-on-familiar-turf/story-U8wWzSDzc06RrbOaleR0lK.html
Well contradictory to our opinions here the experts and popular media channels are showing somewhat a different playing XI they are saying that India could go with three pacers and a spinner allrounder between Jadeja or Ashwin. This makes team much more of a batting side with 8 complete batsmen. But I personally feel this is never going to be the case. Going with full 8 batsmen in the Indian subcontinent is like wanting to draw the match instead of winning it. We all know that top 7 Batsmen are suitable to subcontinent conditions and have been in an okayish form. So instead going with two spin all rounders and 6 batsmen could be a batter option.

My guess is that they will include only two pacers. If they include three of them (Shami, Sharma and Yadav), then don't expect the pitch to be very friendly to the spinners. Either they are going to make a flat track where it is easy to score team totals of 500+ or they will ask the curator to create a pitch that is more or less neutral. But this can be an issue for the Indian batsmen, as the South Africans have some very promising pacers (Ngidi, Rabada and Nortje). If there is pace and bounce in the surface, then these three can make life very difficult for the Indian batsmen.

Another option is to go with 7 batsmen, 2 pacers, 1 spinner and one all rounder (Jadeja). In that case, one additional batsman can be included and the spin responsibility will be shared between Ashwin and Jadeja (with Kuldeep missing out). If the surface offers some support for the pacers, then it won't be a bad idea to go with an extra batsman.

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Now its safe to say Wriddhiman Saha is replacing Pant on the first Test game and 99% chance India is going with 2 spinners ( Jadeja-Ashwin) and 2 seamers (Ishant-Shami), Hanuma Vihari is part time bowler.

* Pant out, didn't see that coming tbh. guess for Home games India is looking at Saha as a first choice wicket keeper - Spin wicket - need good WK-

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Quote from: eaLiTy on September 28, 2019, 10:16:33 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 28, 2019, 01:55:59 AM

Overdependence on Ashwin can backfire. Ashwin is a bowler who has performed poorly on normal tracks. Almost all of his good performances came on pitches which were doctored to suit him.

There is no doubt that the pitches starts to get cracks in the fourth and fifth day and it will be spinning tracks, Ashwin has a bag of tricks up his sleeves as well to trap the opponent and we have seen that throughout his career and one thing i noticed is that, everyone was performing to their optimal when Dhoni was the captain and when Kohli became the captain he started experimenting new players and hence there is a lot of competition for bowlers.
Only if someone gets injured another player gets a chance which is weird considered India used to struggle to find genuine bowlers for decades.

The pitches from fourth day will support spinners as in India the pitches are and that way and it supports as well . Now another thing is that rain is unpredictable and this year across India has being heavy rainfall so rain might also hit the game and pitch may just become more bad and so will be outfield . Accordingly team combination has to be selected .

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 30, 2019, 09:46:07 PM

Quote from: teosanru on September 30, 2019, 02:16:07 PM

Well that something of a fact but I think times have changed a lot now and BCCI is more of like an autocratic body these days. It has a hell lot of say on international matters do you think they can't handle a pitch curator? All being said the idea of 3 pacers in the side looks appealing because India has so many pacers in their side. If they would have requested for a turning track don't you think they would have thought of playing some extra full time spinners in the squad and somewhat less pacers. Also 2 pace bowling line up makes India into a big dilemma of which two to choose for the first match itself.

In the end, the choice of bowling attack is going to be either Shami/Sharma/Yadav/Ashwin + Jadeja or Shami/Sharma/Kuldeep/Ashwin + Jadeja. My guess is that they'll go ahead with two spinners (plus Jadeja), given the fact that the pitch at Visakhapatnam is very friendly for spin bowling. And leaving out Umesh Yadav is not going to raise too many questions. He was included in the team just because Jasprit Bumrah got injured.

But they needs to be careful. South Africa has one very good spinner (Keshav Maharaj) and if the conditions suit his style of bowling, then the Indian batsmen are going to struggle against him. Dane Piedt may be their second choice spinner, but he is not in good form right now. I don't think that the pitch will offer much assistance for the pace bowlers, but Kagiso Rabada/Lungi Ngidi/Anrich Nortje are capable of bowling on flat tracks and the pitch conditions are not going to deter them.

Have a look at this : https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/india-vs-south-africa-old-warrior-on-familiar-turf/story-U8wWzSDzc06RrbOaleR0lK.html
Well contradictory to our opinions here the experts and popular media channels are showing somewhat a different playing XI they are saying that India could go with three pacers and a spinner allrounder between Jadeja or Ashwin. This makes team much more of a batting side with 8 complete batsmen. But I personally feel this is never going to be the case. Going with full 8 batsmen in the Indian subcontinent is like wanting to draw the match instead of winning it. We all know that top 7 Batsmen are suitable to subcontinent conditions and have been in an okayish form. So instead going with two spin all rounders and 6 batsmen could be a batter option.

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Quote from: teosanru on September 30, 2019, 02:16:07 PM

Well that something of a fact but I think times have changed a lot now and BCCI is more of like an autocratic body these days. It has a hell lot of say on international matters do you think they can't handle a pitch curator? All being said the idea of 3 pacers in the side looks appealing because India has so many pacers in their side. If they would have requested for a turning track don't you think they would have thought of playing some extra full time spinners in the squad and somewhat less pacers. Also 2 pace bowling line up makes India into a big dilemma of which two to choose for the first match itself.

In the end, the choice of bowling attack is going to be either Shami/Sharma/Yadav/Ashwin + Jadeja or Shami/Sharma/Kuldeep/Ashwin + Jadeja. My guess is that they'll go ahead with two spinners (plus Jadeja), given the fact that the pitch at Visakhapatnam is very friendly for spin bowling. And leaving out Umesh Yadav is not going to raise too many questions. He was included in the team just because Jasprit Bumrah got injured.

But they needs to be careful. South Africa has one very good spinner (Keshav Maharaj) and if the conditions suit his style of bowling, then the Indian batsmen are going to struggle against him. Dane Piedt may be their second choice spinner, but he is not in good form right now. I don't think that the pitch will offer much assistance for the pace bowlers, but Kagiso Rabada/Lungi Ngidi/Anrich Nortje are capable of bowling on flat tracks and the pitch conditions are not going to deter them.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 30, 2019, 08:07:03 AM

Quote from: teosanru on September 28, 2019, 04:35:15 PM

Vizag's pitch has been supportive for spinners with low bounce in the past. Moreover with Jasprit Bumrah being ruled out of the series I am almost certain that India will go with their old spin duo of Jadeja-Ash and expect them two deliver but along with three seamers probably with Mohammad Shammi ,Ishant Sharma and Umesh yadav being the obvious first choices. This is because Jadeja and Ashwin both can bat pretty well which makes India a much more balanced side. Moreover we did see South Africa not facing any major problems against spin so they won't take the risk of going with just two seamers in the side because India has no all rounder to cover for it.

India going with 3 pacers? And that too on a spin friendly surface such as Vizag? I don't think so. They might include 2 pacers (my prediction would be Mohammad Shammi and Ishant Sharma, with Umesh Yadav sitting out for the match), and 2 full time spinners (Ravichandran Ashwin and Kuldeep Yadav), with Ravindra Jadeja finding a slot in the playing XI as an allrounder.

Also, don't expect them to prepare a turning track every time. In the past, some of the curators had refused orders from the captains to prepare sub-standard tracks. During 1997, there was a well known incident involving Narendra Menon (father of the international umpire Nitin Menon), who refused to prepare a track as per the specification given by the captain. Finally he agreed to prepare another track after much persuasion (one day before the match), but the opposing team members (Sri Lankans) raised objection and the match was abandoned.

Well that something of a fact but I think times have changed a lot now and BCCI is more of like an autocratic body these days. It has a hell lot of say on international matters do you think they can't handle a pitch curator? All being said the idea of 3 pacers in the side looks appealing because India has so many pacers in their side. If they would have requested for a turning track don't you think they would have thought of playing some extra full time spinners in the squad and somewhat less pacers. Also 2 pace bowling line up makes India into a big dilemma of which two to choose for the first match itself.

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Quote from: teosanru on September 28, 2019, 04:35:15 PM

Vizag's pitch has been supportive for spinners with low bounce in the past. Moreover with Jasprit Bumrah being ruled out of the series I am almost certain that India will go with their old spin duo of Jadeja-Ash and expect them two deliver but along with three seamers probably with Mohammad Shammi ,Ishant Sharma and Umesh yadav being the obvious first choices. This is because Jadeja and Ashwin both can bat pretty well which makes India a much more balanced side. Moreover we did see South Africa not facing any major problems against spin so they won't take the risk of going with just two seamers in the side because India has no all rounder to cover for it.

India going with 3 pacers? And that too on a spin friendly surface such as Vizag? I don't think so. They might include 2 pacers (my prediction would be Mohammad Shammi and Ishant Sharma, with Umesh Yadav sitting out for the match), and 2 full time spinners (Ravichandran Ashwin and Kuldeep Yadav), with Ravindra Jadeja finding a slot in the playing XI as an allrounder.

Also, don't expect them to prepare a turning track every time. In the past, some of the curators had refused orders from the captains to prepare sub-standard tracks. During 1997, there was a well known incident involving Narendra Menon (father of the international umpire Nitin Menon), who refused to prepare a track as per the specification given by the captain. Finally he agreed to prepare another track after much persuasion (one day before the match), but the opposing team members (Sri Lankans) raised objection and the match was abandoned.

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 28, 2019, 10:02:56 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on September 28, 2019, 11:14:34 AM

@bryant.coleman: Arguably it can be said for every bowler.

A turning track is every spinner's dream. But most of them are not over dependent on tailored surfaces. What makes Ashwin different from others is the fact that he is a world class spinner at home, on Indian surfaces which are specifically prepared for him, but becomes quite mediocre while playing away from subcontinental conditions. Other Indian spinners such as Kuldeep Yadav, Yuzvendra Chahal and Ravindra Jadeja doesn't have this issue. And that is one of the reasons why Ashwin is no longer considered for away tours.

Agreed on everything about Ashwin and would like to add, Every country makes pitches according to their bowling strength, but now India prefers to mix-up with Spin and Seaming track for home series. You can notice change under Virat's term (Trio Indian seamers)

Btw Ashwin can share world record with M Murli. ( Fastest 350 wickets) if he manages to take 8 wickets in the upcoming game.

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Quote from: JSRAW on September 28, 2019, 11:14:34 AM

@bryant.coleman: Arguably it can be said for every bowler.

A turning track is every spinner's dream. But most of them are not over dependent on tailored surfaces. What makes Ashwin different from others is the fact that he is a world class spinner at home, on Indian surfaces which are specifically prepared for him, but becomes quite mediocre while playing away from subcontinental conditions. Other Indian spinners such as Kuldeep Yadav, Yuzvendra Chahal and Ravindra Jadeja doesn't have this issue. And that is one of the reasons why Ashwin is no longer considered for away tours.

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Quote from: JSRAW on September 28, 2019, 11:14:34 AM

Quote from: eaLiTy on September 28, 2019, 10:16:33 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 28, 2019, 01:55:59 AM

Overdependence on Ashwin can backfire. Ashwin is a bowler who has performed poorly on normal tracks. Almost all of his good performances came on pitches which were doctored to suit him.

There is no doubt that the pitches starts to get cracks in the fourth and fifth day and it will be spinning tracks, Ashwin has a bag of tricks up his sleeves as well to trap the opponent and we have seen that throughout his career and one thing i noticed is that, everyone was performing to their optimal when Dhoni was the captain and when Kohli became the captain he started experimenting new players and hence there is a lot of competition for bowlers.
Only if someone gets injured another player gets a chance which is weird considered India used to struggle to find genuine bowlers for decades.

There is some chance that Team can go with Ashwin and Jadeja's combination along with 2 seamer ( In case of okay pitch, little seam and spin track) they both can be deadly combination during 4th inning if India wins the toss and opts to bat. if otherwise then situation can get tricky because those days are gone when Indian batsmen used to treat every spinners like a club cricket.

@bryant.coleman: Arguably it can be said for every bowler.

Vizag's pitch has been supportive for spinners with low bounce in the past. Moreover with Jasprit Bumrah being ruled out of the series I am almost certain that India will go with their old spin duo of Jadeja-Ash and expect them two deliver but along with three seamers probably with Mohammad Shammi ,Ishant Sharma and Umesh yadav being the obvious first choices. This is because Jadeja and Ashwin both can bat pretty well which makes India a much more balanced side. Moreover we did see South Africa not facing any major problems against spin so they won't take the risk of going with just two seamers in the side because India has no all rounder to cover for it.

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Quote from: eaLiTy on September 28, 2019, 10:16:33 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 28, 2019, 01:55:59 AM

Overdependence on Ashwin can backfire. Ashwin is a bowler who has performed poorly on normal tracks. Almost all of his good performances came on pitches which were doctored to suit him.

There is no doubt that the pitches starts to get cracks in the fourth and fifth day and it will be spinning tracks, Ashwin has a bag of tricks up his sleeves as well to trap the opponent and we have seen that throughout his career and one thing i noticed is that, everyone was performing to their optimal when Dhoni was the captain and when Kohli became the captain he started experimenting new players and hence there is a lot of competition for bowlers.
Only if someone gets injured another player gets a chance which is weird considered India used to struggle to find genuine bowlers for decades.

Ashwin has a lot of variations. But he has been playing international cricket for so long, that many of the opposing batsmen now knows what they should expect from him. I am not saying that Ashwin will not perform well during the upcoming test series. But I won't be surprised if the strategy of preparing pitches to suit his style of bowling backfire on India and Keshav Maharaj destroys the Indian batting lineup.

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Quote from: eaLiTy on September 28, 2019, 10:16:33 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 28, 2019, 01:55:59 AM

Overdependence on Ashwin can backfire. Ashwin is a bowler who has performed poorly on normal tracks. Almost all of his good performances came on pitches which were doctored to suit him.

There is no doubt that the pitches starts to get cracks in the fourth and fifth day and it will be spinning tracks, Ashwin has a bag of tricks up his sleeves as well to trap the opponent and we have seen that throughout his career and one thing i noticed is that, everyone was performing to their optimal when Dhoni was the captain and when Kohli became the captain he started experimenting new players and hence there is a lot of competition for bowlers.
Only if someone gets injured another player gets a chance which is weird considered India used to struggle to find genuine bowlers for decades.

There is some chance that Team can go with Ashwin and Jadeja's combination along with 2 seamer ( In case of okay pitch, little seam and spin track) they both can be deadly combination during 4th inning if India wins the toss and opts to bat. if otherwise then situation can get tricky because those days are gone when Indian batsmen used to treat every spinners like a club cricket.

@bryant.coleman: Arguably it can be said for every bowler.

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 28, 2019, 01:55:59 AM

Overdependence on Ashwin can backfire. Ashwin is a bowler who has performed poorly on normal tracks. Almost all of his good performances came on pitches which were doctored to suit him.

There is no doubt that the pitches starts to get cracks in the fourth and fifth day and it will be spinning tracks, Ashwin has a bag of tricks up his sleeves as well to trap the opponent and we have seen that throughout his career and one thing i noticed is that, everyone was performing to their optimal when Dhoni was the captain and when Kohli became the captain he started experimenting new players and hence there is a lot of competition for bowlers.
Only if someone gets injured another player gets a chance which is weird considered India used to struggle to find genuine bowlers for decades.

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The South African first-choice spinner (Keshav Maharaj) had a good outing and he picked up 3 wickets for 35 runs. Dane Piedt on the other hand had a forgettable match, after he went for 80 runs. This will increase the likelihood of all rounder Senuran Muthusamy getting a slot in the playing XI for the first test, but there is also a chance of the South Africans going to the first match with just one spinner.

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Practice match not going good for Rohit Sharma as an opener, considering he got out after facing only 2 balls. Mayank did okayish today but one Domestic player Priyank Panchal got the limelight when facing likes of Rabada and Philander.

About Rain : Chances are rain can interrupt First Test match next week. Not a weather guy but rain playing its part in cricket for quite some time so little concern.

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Quote from: Little Mouse on September 28, 2019, 02:10:29 AM

Quote from: ene1980 on September 28, 2019, 01:24:15 AM

If they are preparing a spinning wicket then they might include two spinners as South Africa is not famous for playing spin that well, i thought Ashwin was their number one test bowler, India does have a lot of talented bowlers in their ranks but Ashwin brings in experience and variety and he was performing well in the longer format, i guess right hand left hand spin combination will be their tactics.

Some days ago we had some talks about Ashwin, he is the best in India. So, I think Ashwin must be chosen since it's being playing in India. Others are not that much success as Ashwin is.
His stats against South Africa-
Bowled- 283.1 overs
Run- 668
Wicket- 38
Best- 7/66
Average- 17.58

Problem these days with world cricket is the dominance of Unorthodox Spin Bowlers. The Chinamans and the Googly bowlers are dominating the world while the classic off spinners and leg spinners aren't being taken seriously. Ashwin was dropped from the Indian squad despite of his great performance just because India wanted the two unorthodox spin DUO in the form of YUZI Chahal and Kuldeep yadav. I still think that his selection is doubtful.

Quote from: ene1980 on September 28, 2019, 01:24:15 AM

Quote from: Juggy777 on September 27, 2019, 10:21:01 PM

Why are people expecting Ashwin to be selected as he’s not going to be making it to the playing 11, Kuldeep or Jadeja one of them will be selected.

If they are preparing a spinning wicket then they might include two spinners as South Africa is not famous for playing spin that well, i thought Ashwin was their number one test bowler, India does have a lot of talented bowlers in their ranks but Ashwin brings in experience and variety and he was performing well in the longer format, i guess right hand left hand spin combination will be their tactics.

No doubt in the fact that with ashwin comes a great handy experience of test bowling on almost every type of wicket in the world. Also he is a specialist when it comes to test bowling but as said India has to get over the fever of Unorthodox bowlers first.

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Quote from: ene1980 on September 28, 2019, 01:24:15 AM

If they are preparing a spinning wicket then they might include two spinners as South Africa is not famous for playing spin that well, i thought Ashwin was their number one test bowler, India does have a lot of talented bowlers in their ranks but Ashwin brings in experience and variety and he was performing well in the longer format, i guess right hand left hand spin combination will be their tactics.

Some days ago we had some talks about Ashwin, he is the best in India. So, I think Ashwin must be chosen since it's being playing in India. Others are not that much success as Ashwin is.
His stats against South Africa-
Bowled- 283.1 overs
Run- 668
Wicket- 38
Best- 7/66
Average- 17.58

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Quote from: ene1980 on September 28, 2019, 01:24:15 AM

Quote from: Juggy777 on September 27, 2019, 10:21:01 PM

Why are people expecting Ashwin to be selected as he’s not going to be making it to the playing 11, Kuldeep or Jadeja one of them will be selected.

If they are preparing a spinning wicket then they might include two spinners as South Africa is not famous for playing spin that well, i thought Ashwin was their number one test bowler, India does have a lot of talented bowlers in their ranks but Ashwin brings in experience and variety and he was performing well in the longer format, i guess right hand left hand spin combination will be their tactics.

Overdependence on Ashwin can backfire. Ashwin is a bowler who has performed poorly on normal tracks. Almost all of his good performances came on pitches which were doctored to suit him. So if India is planning to make a turning track and Ashwin fails to perform, then they will be in big trouble. Other spinners such as Jadeja doesn't have this handicap.

And don't expect the South African batsmen to fail against spin every-time. The modern technology has helped non-Asian teams to study the Asian spinners and plan an effective strategy to counter their variation. Super-slow motion recordings are available for every spin bowler, and the batsmen study this footage to recognize the movement and turn.

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Quote from: Juggy777 on September 27, 2019, 10:21:01 PM

Why are people expecting Ashwin to be selected as he’s not going to be making it to the playing 11, Kuldeep or Jadeja one of them will be selected.

If they are preparing a spinning wicket then they might include two spinners as South Africa is not famous for playing spin that well, i thought Ashwin was their number one test bowler, India does have a lot of talented bowlers in their ranks but Ashwin brings in experience and variety and he was performing well in the longer format, i guess right hand left hand spin combination will be their tactics.

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