Topic: The difference between science and religion - page 18. (Read 6507 times)

Great sci-fi story.   

Science has to be perfect. If we run a DC current through water, and use the same current and the same cind of water every time, we have to get the same result every time. Science is perfect.

Science knows it doesn't know everything, because otherwise, it would stop.

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The Ancestor's Tale by Dawkins is also a great resource. It follows human evolution all the back to the origin a life. A great read for any one interested.

Nobody says science is perfect...

When science doesn't know the answer, scientists say, "I don't know", which is a much better answer than religious people pulling an answer out of their ass...

I'd rather have someone say, "I don't know" than claim to have an answer they don't have, with no evidence to back up their claim.

If you want to know about evolution and where apes came from, google it... science has those answers... science can trace the path of human evolution for a billion years, basically since we were bacteria.  There is enough evidence to convince anyone if you simple look (obviously you have not looked)

If you are truly interested (you did ask the question after all), here is a video series by Aron Ra explaining it all to you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXQP_R-yiuw&list=PLXJ4dsU0oGMLnubJLPuw0dzD0AvAHAotW

Aron has compiled a series of 34 videos so far, tracing human evolution from bacteria to the current day... after 34 videos, he is almost up to where humans evolved... almost

Why would you even expect science to have every answer to every question?  Is that a reasonable expectation?

We're pretty much in agreement if you read what I said.

Who has excluded other causes?

Yes they do.

The DSM V criteria is two or more of the following, and at least one of them must be 1, 2, or 3:

• Delusions
• Hallucinations
• Disorganized speech
• Grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
• Negative symptoms, such as diminished emotional expression
  

So delusions and hallucinations together would be enough for a diagnosis provided other causes had been excluded.

I worked with a guy who was later diagnosed with schizophrenia.  Really smart guy, real genius, nobody knew he had mental issues.
He was undoubtedly the smartest guy on my team.  Then he had a breakdown/episode, and was hospitalized.

We visited him in a hospital, he was half a man after all the drugs they were feeding him, hard to say if what he was saying was due to drugs or his condition.  He wondered, could not recognize half of the people who visited him.  He was talking nonsense about his girlfriend in Sweden, that she will come to visit him next week, shit like that.  He never had a girlfriend, nor been to Sweden.

Years later he was released, I saw him on linkedin, he was working as an IT manager.  Then he disappeared again.
  

They do NOT in and of themselves permit a diagnosis of scizophrenia.

Let's take a look at the symptoms.

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/schizophrenia/what-is-schizophrenia

Positive psychotic symptoms: Hallucinations, such as hearing voices, paranoid delusions and exaggerated or distorted perceptions, beliefs and behaviors.

Negative symptoms: A loss or a decrease in the ability to initiate plans, speak, express emotion or find pleasure.

Disorganization symptoms: Confused and disordered thinking and speech, trouble with logical thinking and sometimes bizarre behavior or abnormal movements.

Impaired cognition: Problems with attention, concentration, memory and declining educational performance.

So with Moses you have the first but not the other three?

Science is rooted in evidence-base that is experimentation and observation. But religion is based on beliefs and faith.So they are two different phenomena altogether.

Schnieder's First Rank Symptoms for schizophrenia include both auditory hallucinations and primary delusions.

Similarly, both hallucinations and delusions are among the DSM-V list of symptoms required for a diagnosis of schizophrenia.

Yes, there are other causes, but af_newbie is right - hallucinations and delusions are literally textbook schizophrenia.

Wow. Okay, you know then. It's a tragic thing.

Where I was coming from really, was more like being unable to relate (what we know of ) the behavior, thoughts and writing of Moses with people I have known that had various mental conditions including schizophrenia.

But as you know, the guy could have been totally sane and then turned.

No, those are not "textbook examples." Schizo. is defined by disassociation of cognitive patterns primarily. Halluc. / delusions can have many causations.

Have you ever known or associated with such people?

Hypothesizing is not what you are doing when you say that a religious person did something. Are you now stating that you don't really know what Moses did, and that you were making up a story about what he might have done?

Why didn't you say your were talking science fiction, right from the start? After all, hypotheses are not know to be facts. So, you contradict yourself, and right in the same, short paragraph.

In addition, the evidence you presented could not be tested on Moses and the burning bush. Or do you actually have time travel?

You are kinda outside thinking ability, aren't you.

Then why science "can't explain the existence of life and why science can't explain if where did the evolution begins". That can simply tell us that science can't explain everything. Just imagine how did they concluded that we came from apes based on charles darwin's theory yet he cannot explain the core of evolution that he presented.

If we came from apes then where did the ape came from? From the fussil? Where did the fussil came from? So basically science cannot dig in deeper to that which makes science not completely rational IMO.

I just hate the fact that people thinks that science is perfect which is obviously not.

Everytime I ask some atheist to why science can't just simply explains everything they will always tells me that because science is still progressing. Lol seriously? That is just a pure common sense that because there is someone who created everything

Science can be proven physically whilst religion cannot be proven physically.   Science aims to solve physical problem of mankind whilst religion seeks to solve the spiritual problems of mankind. I think both are helpful to make humans complete.

No, science is hypothesizing that Moses hallucinated via known mechanisms.  This is based on the facts which I already presented.  There is no request to "take it on faith" or any of that jazz.  I presented facts and evidence.  The evidence I presented could be tested by anyone.

That's the whole point of science.  You can test it for yourself.  Unlike religion, where you are asked to trust the writings of an ancient desert dwelling tribe without the ability to test any of their claims.

One of the most, if not the most evident difference between science and religion I think is mainly its nature. The concept of religion is primarily based on faith and beliefs while the concept of science is mostly based on discovered facts and principles. Furthermore, one of tge most obvious difference between science and religion is its influence to people. Out of almost eight billion population in the world, almost 100% of it believes in science more than the percentage of people who believes in religion; and even those percentage of people believe, they surely does have different religions --- and that's how the third difference comes in. Science is universal, while religion is not.

LOL.  Having hallucinations and delusions is a textbook example of schizophrenia.

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/schizophrenia/index.shtml

He did have delusion/hallucination of talking to God.   So the only question is how severe were his symptoms.

I feel there is enough evidence to point to Moses hallucinating on DMT.  The only question is whether this was an accident, or intentional.

Moses, having been raised in Egypt, would likely have known about "the tree of life" (aka Acacia Nilotica, aka "the Egyptian Acacia")
The Egyptians Had Their Own Version Of Ayahuasca They Called “The Tree Of Life”
https://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/05/31/the-tree-of-life-acacia-nilotica/

The fact that the bible mentions the bush was burning, but did not burn up, implies knowledge of the vaporization of DMT.  DMT will degrade into other chemicals in a fire, which is why the story makes a point about the fire being small and not consuming the bush itself, only hot enough to vaporize the DMT in the plant, but not hot enough to destroy the chemical.

IMHO, this implies Moses understood DMT and its vaporization temperature.

Jews often wrote things down cryptically like this, so only those "in the know" would understand the meaning.  This is extremely common in the bible.  Other examples include astrology (Egyptians worshiped the bull [age of Torus 4000BCE-2000BCE], Abraham sacrificed the ram instead of his son Isaac [age of Aries 2000BCE-0CE], Jesus is symbolized by the fish Pisces [age of Pisces 0CE-2000CE]).  According to this theme, the next major religion should be symbolized by Aquarius [age of Aquarius 2000CE-4000CE]

Another example of Jews cryptic writings in the bible would be the number of the beast, 666/616, referring to Nero Caesar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast

Another example of hallucinogenic drug use in the bible would be manna/mushrooms.  Anyone familiar with psychedelic mushrooms can tell you the similarity between the description of manna from heaven, and magic mushrooms growing



The bible mentions that the priests gathered up a bunch of this "manna", and put it in a pot to keep in the "holy of holies" and eat it for 40 years...