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Topic: The impact of bad crypto (DASH, SDC, etc). How much does math matter? - page 3. (Read 7295 times)

legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
I never asked for NSA proof transactions, nor was I promised them, but I would like protection from non-state actors, and if the right network evolves within I2p or TOR or something else, then a coin that can be NSA proof would be even better, so no dash, yes Monero.

What part of "untraceable" and "nobody" don't you get?

..."nobody can trace your transfers unless you decide so"

Yeah, well, I didn't decide that I wanted the government to know what I'm transacting Cry

Monero #SCAM #REKT  Cry Cry Cry
XMR #snakeoil  Cry Cry Cry

Again, you're conflating metadata that requires your OSPEC to be on point and the network you are interacting with not to leek information with Monero's technology--so this is like blaming a car company for traffic accidents caused by the absence of a stop sign. The car company can only do so much, but in dash's case they forgot the airbags and brakes.




Against the NSA yes I stand by the assertion that IP address correlation unmasks, overlapping rings unmask, etc. It all adds up if you are trying to hide from governments, then I don't trust Monero or any anonymous coin. Notice I wrote "privacy" and not anonymity in prior post upthread. For privacy, I think Monero is suitable and Dash is not (because not autonomous End-to-End).
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
I never asked for NSA proof transactions, nor was I promised them, but I would like protection from non-state actors, and if the right network evolves within I2p or TOR or something else, then a coin that can be NSA proof would be even better, so no dash, yes Monero.

What part of "untraceable" and "nobody" don't you get?

..."nobody can trace your transfers unless you decide so"

Yeah, well, I didn't decide that I wanted the government to know what I'm transacting Cry

Monero #SCAM #REKT  Cry Cry Cry
XMR #snakeoil  Cry Cry Cry
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
I find it fascinating how Alex misses that the worse he tries to make Monero look, the worse dash looks--I never asked for NSA proof transactions, nor was I promised them, but I would like protection from non-state actors, and if the right network evolves within I2p or TOR or something else, then a coin that can be NSA proof would be even better, so no dash, yes Monero.


Regarding Monero's anonymity, do you stand by the statement you've expressed below in the past (regarding broken anonymity due to metadata correlation)?

Cryptonote was created by anonymous people. Even Monero's cryptographer is anonymous. Who created this anonymity that is easily broken by meta-data. I don't know if that is circumspect or just the way the world turns.

Against the NSA yes I stand by the assertion that IP address correlation unmasks, overlapping rings unmask, etc. It all adds up if you are trying to hide from governments, then I don't trust Monero or any anonymous coin. Notice I wrote "privacy" and not anonymity in prior post upthread. For privacy, I think Monero is suitable and Dash is not (because not autonomous End-to-End).
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
The typical btc tx is around 0.3kb

It's not. It is closer to 0.5KB-1 KB, in some blocks >1 KB

Look at the recent blocks.



It's the new spam vector Tongue

Every chain has a degree of spam, that's included in the 2.5 GB Monero chain as well. In reality the 7 TPS benchmark (which comes to 240 bytes) for Bitcoin just turned out to be an unrealistic ideal scenario, or at least unrealistic unless extreme transaction packing efficiency is forced by high tx fees. But that too applies to every chain in various ways. For example here is a mix 4 transaction that is only 758 bytes. If people really cared about fees, transactions would likely be constructed in a more compact manner. YMMV.

http://moneroblocks.info/tx/9fd92998d3bfef59b86aeb09f29746eaf0f49846736965533714800be0eaa31e

I guess it's solvable by higher fees that promote more efficient ways to use the blockchain but then you have to face the social-engineering attack vector "ohh my gawd these fee increases are killing adoption", etc etc.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
The typical btc tx is around 0.3kb

It's not. It is closer to 0.5KB-1 KB, in some blocks >1 KB

Look at the recent blocks.



It's the new spam vector Tongue

Every chain has a degree of spam, that's included in the 2.5 GB Monero chain as well. In reality the 7 TPS benchmark (which comes to 240 bytes) for Bitcoin just turned out to be an unrealistic ideal scenario, or at least unrealistic unless extreme transaction packing efficiency is forced by high tx fees. But that too applies to every chain in various ways. For example here is a mix 4 transaction that is only 758 bytes. If people really cared about fees, transactions would likely be constructed in a more compact manner. YMMV.

http://moneroblocks.info/tx/9fd92998d3bfef59b86aeb09f29746eaf0f49846736965533714800be0eaa31e
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
The typical btc tx is around 0.3kb

It's not. It is closer to 0.5KB-1 KB, in some blocks >1 KB

Look at the recent blocks.



It's the new spam vector Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
The FRAUD and SCAM exposed:

Quote
https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero

Introduction

Monero is a private, secure, untraceable currency. You are your bank, you control your funds, and nobody can trace your transfers unless you decide so.

The "brochure" is fraudulent.

The claims are false.

This is false marketing with dangerous RL consequences.

XMR #REKT
XMR #verybadcrypto
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
The typical btc tx is around 0.3kb

It's not. It is closer to 0.5KB-1 KB, in some blocks >1 KB

Look at the recent blocks.


legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
Let's get back to the point.

The point is the FRAUDulent claim of

Quote
Monero: the secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency https://getmonero.org

It should have an asterisk saying, we do not guarantee that your TXs are secure, private or untraceable by the government. Otherwise people could get imprisoned or even die due to this bad and fraudulent crypto  Cry Cry Cry

XMR #REKT.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
The typical btc tx is around 0.3kb, so, at 2-3kb for monero we are talking 6.6-10x.

I understand all the different characteristics, but it's precisely these characteristics that give the bloat.

legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Scaling "10 times better" is frankly pretty ridiculous.

It may be, on the lower side. It could be worse than 10x.

What's your blockchain size right now?

Blockchain size is not a measure of scalability (and as I said there is no useful numeric comparison of "scalability"), but the size is something like 2.5 GB.

So bitcoin is like 25x in terms of blockchain use, but has 2k-3k txs per 10 minutes.

Monero, from the looks of it, has not even 10 txs in the last hour.

The 2.5 GB is not proportional to the past hour, nor is the past hour representative of all hours. A huge portion of of the entire chain, perhaps half or more, was created within the first few months due to immature pool software doing payouts stupidly, and also when there is occasionally much higher activity (during pumps, mostly). Bitcoin also didn't have that sort of usage for whole lifetime; for the first year or two it was close to dead, and up until last year the usage was significantly lower. With 2k-3k tx/block during its entire life, Bitcoin's blockchain would be much more than 25x bigger.

Overall these sorts of crude comparisons just don't make sense, and just show you are more interested in trolling than thinking.

Actually, now that you mention it, I haven't even factored that BTC's blockchain is 7+ years old vs 2 years old of XMR.

Anyway, let's make a hypothetical here.

How much bloat would Monero generate for 20.000 tx per day (1/10th of what bitcoin does), at a relatively low mixin level 3.

A typical transaction is like that is 2-3 KB compared to maybe 0.5 KB on bitcoin (rough numbers), so a ratio of about 5x. That's still not a valid comparison, because if people ever use any kind of mixing services on Bitcoin (and they do), that makes up part of the higher tx volume and reduces the effective ratio. BTW, the same argument has been made by Adam Back with respect to CT's larger transactions. You have to compare not only transactions numbers and size, but adjust for some sort of equivalent level of functionality per transaction.


legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
I guess my quote button works fine, maybe you should hire an expert to look over your system to see what's wrong instead of just accepting it as broken.

I just insert quote / unquote by hand if it's from the SAME post that I'm quoting. I quoted 4 pieces. The first has the timestamp, the second, right below it, doesn't need to. It's the same post (as the first).

The third (from a locked thread) isn't quotable, so I'm just inserting the message link. The fourth doesn't need the link again. It's the same post (as the third).

In case anyone is stupid enough to don't get it, there are "..." between (quote 1/quote 2) and (quote 3/quote 4)

But then again, arguing about quotes, timestamps, trolls, etc, seems to be all that you can do in this debate where XMR is proven to be bad crypto  Cry Cry Cry

Let's get back to the point.

Regarding Monero's anonymity, do you stand by the statement you've expressed below in the past (regarding broken anonymity due to metadata correlation)?

Cryptonote was created by anonymous people. Even Monero's cryptographer is anonymous. Who created this anonymity that is easily broken by meta-data. I don't know if that is circumspect or just the way the world turns.

Against the NSA yes I stand by the assertion that IP address correlation unmasks, overlapping rings unmask, etc. It all adds up if you are trying to hide from governments, then I don't trust Monero or any anonymous coin. Notice I wrote "privacy" and not anonymity in prior post upthread. For privacy, I think Monero is suitable and Dash is not (because not autonomous End-to-End).
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
I guess my quote button works fine, maybe you should hire an expert to look over your system to see what's wrong instead of just accepting it as broken.

I just insert quote / unquote by hand if it's from the SAME post that I'm quoting. I quoted 4 pieces. The first has the timestamp, the second, right below it, doesn't need to. It's the same post (as the first).

The third (from a locked thread) isn't quotable, so I'm just inserting the message link. The fourth doesn't need the link again. It's the same post (as the third).

In case anyone is stupid enough to don't get it, there are "..." between (quote 1/quote 2) and (quote 3/quote 4)

But then again, arguing about quotes, timestamps, trolls, etc, seems to be all that you can do in this debate where XMR is proven to be bad crypto  Cry Cry Cry
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
Scaling "10 times better" is frankly pretty ridiculous.

It may be, on the lower side. It could be worse than 10x.

What's your blockchain size right now?

Blockchain size is not a measure of scalability (and as I said there is no useful numeric comparison of "scalability"), but the size is something like 2.5 GB.

So bitcoin is like 25x in terms of blockchain use, but has 2k-3k txs per 10 minutes.

Monero, from the looks of it, has not even 10 txs in the last hour.

The 2.5 GB is not proportional to the past hour, nor is the past hour representative of all hours. A huge portion of of the entire chain, perhaps half or more, was created within the first few months due to immature pool software doing payouts stupidly, and also when there is occasionally much higher activity (during pumps, mostly). Bitcoin also didn't have that sort of usage for whole lifetime; for the first year or two it was close to dead, and up until last year the usage was significantly lower. With 2k-3k tx/block during its entire life, Bitcoin's blockchain would be much more than 25x bigger.

Overall these sorts of crude comparisons just don't make sense, and just show you are more interested in trolling than thinking.

Actually, now that you mention it, I haven't even factored that BTC's blockchain is 7+ years old vs 2 years old of XMR.

Anyway, let's make a hypothetical here.

How much bloat would Monero generate for 20.000 tx per day (1/10th of what bitcoin does), at a relatively low mixin level 3.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Scaling "10 times better" is frankly pretty ridiculous.

It may be, on the lower side. It could be worse than 10x.

What's your blockchain size right now?

Blockchain size is not a measure of scalability (and as I said there is no useful numeric comparison of "scalability"), but the size is something like 2.5 GB.

So bitcoin is like 25x in terms of blockchain use, but has 2k-3k txs per 10 minutes.

Monero, from the looks of it, has not even 10 txs in the last hour.

The 2.5 GB is not proportional to the past hour, nor is the past hour representative of all hours. A huge portion of of the entire chain, perhaps half or more, was created within the first few months due to immature pool software doing payouts stupidly, and also when there is occasionally much higher activity (during pumps, mostly). Bitcoin also didn't have that sort of usage for whole lifetime; for the first year or two it was close to dead, and up until last year the usage was significantly lower. With 2k-3k tx/block during its entire life, Bitcoin's blockchain would be much more than 25x bigger.

Overall these sorts of crude comparisons just don't make sense, and just show you are more interested in trolling than thinking.





legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
It took me 30 seconds to find out that this is BS:





Quote
Second, you're taking many of TPTB_need war's statements out of context and purposely removing the time stamps

I can't always use time-stamped quotes on locked threads with the "quote" button. That's why I'm inserting a link instead where this is not possible.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13575212 Here's one of your unattributed quotations that wasn't locked, are the rest as locked?

And here's me quoting it with the quote button (*notice it's 3 months old).

Monero is not anonymous when your metadata can be correlated. One example of metadata which unmasks your anonymity is your IP And IP address is not the only metadata that can destroy your anonymity in ring signatures. Other examples can include cookies in your browser and other activity you did on the web. Other examples also include telephone calls and other activity you did around that time, which have statistical significance.

And here's what he says today on this thread (which you may or may not read in full).

Now that you quoted the entire post, does it change the fact that he says MONERO IS A BROKEN DESIGN?

Not quite. I said Bitcoin is broken and both can't scale to million tx/s. But that doesn't make Monero broken for its target market. Bitcoin is broken both for scaling and for centralization of mining. Monero has advantages on the latter and also adds strong privacy.

My reasons for not wanting to be folded into the development group of Monero, is because I would be a little fish in a little pond. And I am not enthralled about coding on C++ code bases. So what is the redeeming factor, when I have so much opportunity and excitement on what I am working on now? I find it a bit insulting (but more humorous and motivates my competitive fire) when iCEBREAKER and americanpegasus insinuate that the only useful coding I could do in this world would be on the itsy bitsy coins they own. That is because they are speculators and not developers. The developers don't say that to me, because they know better.


And what he says comparing dash and Monero's privacy on this thread.

Regarding Monero's anonymity, do you stand by the statement you've expressed below in the past (regarding broken anonymity due to metadata correlation)?

Cryptonote was created by anonymous people. Even Monero's cryptographer is anonymous. Who created this anonymity that is easily broken by meta-data. I don't know if that is circumspect or just the way the world turns.

Against the NSA yes I stand by the assertion that IP address correlation unmasks, overlapping rings unmask, etc. It all adds up if you are trying to hide from governments, then I don't trust Monero or any anonymous coin. Notice I wrote "privacy" and not anonymity in prior post upthread. For privacy, I think Monero is suitable and Dash is not (because not autonomous End-to-End).

I guess my quote button works fine, maybe you should hire an expert to look over your system to see what's wrong instead of just accepting it as broken.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
Scaling "10 times better" is frankly pretty ridiculous.

It may be, on the lower side. It could be worse than 10x.

What's your blockchain size right now?

Blockchain size is not a measure of scalability (and as I said there is no useful numeric comparison of "scalability"), but the size is something like 2.5 GB.

So bitcoin is like 25x in terms of blockchain use, but has 2k-3k txs per 10 minutes.

Monero, from the looks of it, has not even 10 txs in the last hour.

Anyway, let's say btc does 200k txs per day and monero does 200 txs per day. That's 1000 to 1 in terms of txs, yet the blockchain isn't 1/1000 of BTC, it's 1/25.

My 10x may be very conservative.


The only way monero can scale if they make thousand clone of it may they will say its a test coin to monero and call it sombrero1, sombrero2, sombrero3 etc  Grin Grin Cheesy

Sombrero ahahahhaahahaha that cracked me up Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
So I wonder if you're some sort of reverse troll.

Actually I'm doing precisely that. You are the (normal) trolls and I'm trolling you back. As you said it. Reverse troll.

Quote
Why? Two reasons: First, TPTB_need_war has more and harsher criticisms of dash, so the best you can do is make dash look worse than Monero.

In the context of this thread, it is a "given" that dash is bad crypto (just look at the title), so there's nothing to debate there. The OP made his mind based on a paper wallet generator and a theoretical instantx jamming scenario. So let's see what the "good crypto" is... and when you look more carefully, the self-proclaimed good crypto is broken everywhere Cry Cry Cry

Quote
Second, you're taking many of TPTB_need war's statements out of context and purposely removing the time stamps

I can't always use time-stamped quotes on locked threads with the "quote" button. That's why I'm inserting a link instead where this is not possible.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
Scaling "10 times better" is frankly pretty ridiculous.

It may be, on the lower side. It could be worse than 10x.

What's your blockchain size right now?

Blockchain size is not a measure of scalability (and as I said there is no useful numeric comparison of "scalability"), but the size is something like 2.5 GB.

So bitcoin is like 25x in terms of blockchain use, but has 2k-3k txs per 10 minutes.

Monero, from the looks of it, has not even 10 txs in the last hour.

Anyway, let's say btc does 200k txs per day and monero does 200 txs per day. That's 1000 to 1 in terms of txs, yet the blockchain isn't 1/1000 of BTC, it's 1/25.

My 10x may be very conservative.


The only way monero can scale if they make thousand clone of it may they will say its a test coin to monero and call it sombrero1, sombrero2, sombrero3 etc  Grin Grin Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
Scaling "10 times better" is frankly pretty ridiculous.

It may be, on the lower side. It could be worse than 10x.

What's your blockchain size right now?

Blockchain size is not a measure of scalability (and as I said there is no useful numeric comparison of "scalability"), but the size is something like 2.5 GB.

So bitcoin is like 25x in terms of blockchain use, but has 2k-3k txs per 10 minutes.

Monero, from the looks of it, has not even 10 txs in the last hour.

Anyway, let's say btc does 200k txs per day and monero does 200 txs per day. That's 1000 to 1 in terms of txs, yet the blockchain isn't 1/1000 of BTC, it's 1/25.

My 10x may be very conservative.
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