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Topic: The impact of bad crypto (DASH, SDC, etc). How much does math matter? (Read 7295 times)

hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
How much money was lost as a result of the DASH paper wallet faulty RNG.


Recently, Dash presented a significant appreciation in its price and it is believed that the main reason is the launch of "Dash Text" in Venezuela, an SMS-based crypto-currency transaction service. According to the company, the application eliminates the need for Venezuelan users to have smartphones and internet access to carry out transactions involving crypto-coins, a fact that has historically been a significant barrier to the adoption of crypto-coins in the country led by Nicolás Maduro.

The solution to this problem was built in partnership with BlockCypher, specializing in blockchain solutions that allow users to interact with multiple crypto-coins through a single platform. Currently in the beta version, Dash Text will allow Movistar and Digitel users - Venezuela's largest telecommunications providers - to access Dash services through a simple five-digit shortcode.
member
Activity: 518
Merit: 10

Against the NSA yes I stand by the assertion that IP address correlation unmasks, overlapping rings unmask, etc. It all adds up if you are trying to hide from governments, then I don't trust Monero or any anonymous coin.

monero has a future! Dash does not even solve the problem, which Monero solves and throws, even finds ways to create new problems.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 629
And if CT is ever implemented for bitcoin itself then bitcoin will no longer be a tier 1 asset and no longer constitute viable money. (At least not in any sociological sense that could support its value).

Just for clarification, by "monetary tier", I meant this: If I use my bike as "money" to pay for something then the bike is the tier 1 money and the contract that says someone owns it is the tier 2 asset. The tier 2 asset can be obscured, burned, washed through the washing machine, without compromising the integrity or value of the tier 1 asset.

In crypto, obscured blockchains (such as CT) potentially have the job of record keeping and obscuring the ownership of a tier 1 asset (bitcoin). But they are not tier 1 assets in their own right (by virtue of being obscured).





I have to say that I like this (totally flawed) argument  Grin because it seems to be convincing at first.  

However, it is flawed for two reasons: one economical, and one of principle.

The thing with any crypto currency, even bitcoin, is that there IS NO FIRST TIER.  There are no "individual bitcoins as entities existing somewhere", there are only proofs that you ARE ENTITLED TO SPEND an amount of bitcoin.

After all, what happens is that "bitcoins" are UTXO of which you can "solve the puzzle" (of which you have the private key that can easily solve the puzzle).  When you have transacted an UTXO, that specific UTXO doesn't exist any more (it is not "unspend" any more).  You've created a NEW UTXO and you've destroyed an old one.  So each transaction is a "next tier" according to the logic you introduced.

In a certain limit, you may say that "real" bitcoins are the UTXO of the coinbase, when a miner makes a new block.  Now, when that miner transfers those coins to someone, he's in fact not transferring that UTXO (he could if he were to *transfer the secret key* but that would be silly to accept).  He's giving you a new UTXO, that proves that you are now entitled to spend those bitcoins, and he's not any more.  But no actual bitcoin, no actual "bike" has changed hand: a new document has been written, a new notarial act, that tells everybody that the "bike" is now your property.

However, in as much as new UTXO are of exactly the same form as the coinbase ones, you could even say that the coinbase UTXO is already a "tier 2" act of proof of possession, and that there are no bitcoins like there is your bike: there are only successive proofs of possession, which are the successive UTXO.

Next, we come to multiple-input-multiple-output transactions on bitcoin.  There too, your argument breaks down.  If bitcoin number 57 (what's that ?  That's the non-existent equivalent of your tier-1 bike) and bitcoin number 102 are both inputs to transaction 20370 on the chain, and there is an output of 1 bitcoin, and another output of 1 bitcoin, which one is which ?  Is the owner of the first output now the owner of bitcoin number 57 (the red bike) or is he now owner of bitcoin number 102 (the green bike) ?

So even on a public block chain there's no such thing as "tier-1 possession" because these objects don't exist: the only thing that exist is PROOF OF RIGHT TO SPEND (your "tier-2" kind of stuff).

And now we come to something essential which is the economic argument: in order for a monetary unit to be fungible, the ONLY thing that should be knowable is the proof of right to spend.  That's in fact exactly the same with fiat money in a bank account.  When you pay someone, the only thing that is verified is that you have the right to spend so many dollars, and not whether those dollars are representing the green or the red bike.  That's called "fungible units".

The only thing that is needed in a payment system is a proof of right to spend.  Public block chains fail at that, because they give out MORE information than just that.  Obfuscated block chains are a better approach to that ideal.

There is no "first tier" in a monetary unit.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
How much money was lost as a result of the DASH paper wallet faulty RNG (January 4th - April 5th, 2016)?

What was the damage caused by the recent fork?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dash-just-had-a-hard-fork-market-sell-off-in-321-1592314


Wow, that's not good.

It's amateur hour over at the Dash compound.  First the instamine, now this RNG fail and fork.

No wonder Monero is eating their market cap.   Cool
member
Activity: 109
Merit: 10
How much money was lost as a result of the DASH paper wallet faulty RNG (January 4th - April 5th, 2016)?

What was the damage caused by the recent fork?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dash-just-had-a-hard-fork-market-sell-off-in-321-1592314
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
How quickly Alex forgets--must have dementia or something.  Huh

I never asked for NSA proof transactions, nor was I promised them, but I would like protection from non-state actors, and if the right network evolves within I2p or TOR or something else, then a coin that can be NSA proof would be even better, so no dash, yes Monero.

What part of "untraceable" and "nobody" don't you get?

..."nobody can trace your transfers unless you decide so"

Yeah, well, I didn't decide that I wanted the government to know what I'm transacting Cry

Monero #SCAM #REKT  Cry Cry Cry
XMR #snakeoil  Cry Cry Cry

Again, you're conflating metadata that requires your OSPEC to be on point and the network you are interacting with not to leek information with Monero's technology--so this is like blaming a car company for traffic accidents caused by the absence of a stop sign. The car company can only do so much, but in dash's case they forgot the airbags and brakes.




Against the NSA yes I stand by the assertion that IP address correlation unmasks, overlapping rings unmask, etc. It all adds up if you are trying to hide from governments, then I don't trust Monero or any anonymous coin. Notice I wrote "privacy" and not anonymity in prior post upthread. For privacy, I think Monero is suitable and Dash is not (because not autonomous End-to-End).
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
Monero Review:

Broken anonymity []
Broken scaling []
Broken game theory / Broken Nash Equilibrium []
Delusional, retarded and pumper-minded community []
Cryptographers with broken cryptographic ideas []
Broken de-centralization that will tend to centralization []
Fraudulent claims regarding the strength of anonymity provided []

Congratulations. You passed your "bad crypto" review with flying colors.

Monero #REKT  Cry Cry Cry
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
Good crypto with mixin 0 and intentionally crippled PoW Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
Who decides what is bad crypto Monero shills by creating constant threads about other coins like TechorMarketing?

Cryptographers (using the laws of mathematics) decide what is bad crypto.

EG:

Quote
Peter Todd calls DASH "snake oil" and bad crypto:
* snake oil: https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/622022840330682368
* bad crypto: https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/622081863008436225
 
gmaxwell calls DASH harmful garbage and dysfunctional software:
* https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10922949

The Todd also called Monero "good crypto" so that coin is off-topic on this thread.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
What are you working on as a Monero/Aeon developer Smooth?

Nothing related to bad crypto, as far as I know.

OK but what are you developing in Monero or Aeon as a developer? 

Both projects have an open development process and community. You are welcome to particulate. But both are also off topic here, so take your toxic forum trolling elsewhere.


Who decides what is bad crypto Monero shills by creating constant threads about other coins like TechorMarketing?

I am asking you now what are you working on as a developer because I have seen you here always; so in my mind he is a developer why he's here and not developing? If you going to answer with stop trolling again or this is not a proper thread to talk about it even thought you are Monero/Aeon Developer then i'll assume that you are basically not doing anything but chatting here in BTCtalk forum attacking all kinds of coins who have developers who actually doing something "It does not matter if you like it or not at least they are trying to make something".

This thread can probably help improve your poor critical thinking skills:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-shitcoiners-guide-to-shitcoin-logic-1430839

I see at least #2, #4, #5 and #6 in your posts, off topic though they are. It seems you have also come up with your own slightly different variation: "What have you done?". Also, "If you do/don't do ______, I'm going to assume ______". Nice, two in one.
newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
What are you working on as a Monero/Aeon developer Smooth?

Nothing related to bad crypto, as far as I know.

OK but what are you developing in Monero or Aeon as a developer? 

Both projects have an open development process and community. You are welcome to particulate. But both are also off topic here, so take your toxic forum trolling elsewhere.


Who decides what is bad crypto Monero shills by creating constant threads about other coins like TechorMarketing?

I am asking you now what are you working on as a developer because I have seen you here always; so in my mind he is a developer why he's here and not developing? If you going to answer with stop trolling again or this is not a proper thread to talk about it even thought you are Monero/Aeon Developer then i'll assume that you are basically not doing anything but chatting here in BTCtalk forum attacking all kinds of coins who have developers who actually doing something "It does not matter if you like it or not at least they are trying to make something".
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
What are you working on as a Monero/Aeon developer Smooth?

Nothing related to bad crypto, as far as I know.

OK but what are you developing in Monero or Aeon as a developer? 

Both projects have an open development process and community. You are welcome to particulate. But both are also off topic here, so take your toxic forum trolling elsewhere.
newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
What are you working on as a Monero/Aeon developer Smooth?

Nothing related to bad crypto, as far as I know.

OK but what are you developing in Monero or Aeon as a developer? 
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
What are you working on as a Monero/Aeon developer Smooth?

Nothing related to bad crypto, as far as I know.
newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
What are you working on as a Monero/Aeon developer Smooth?
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Operation Rescue:

ceti, I think that one is missing from your Monero hate thread.
newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
I know it's not my business but it seems like Monero guys create random threads against DASH and then fill it with random stuff; Like TechorMarketing to me looks like a Monero hate thread starter by the same group who attack other coins with no development to talk about in their part. I come to this thread because I remember this
Ethereum's 'Casper' system designer Vlad Zamfir - DASH centralized governance masternode model is a failure.

Listen to his comments in this video and discuss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StMBdBfwn8c&feature=youtu.be&t=1381

Ethereum's 'Casper' will be designed to avoid the catastrophic problems of the DASH design

I created this account just so these Monero drama queens stop putting shit on other people mouth, we know you hate DASH that much but at least quote Blad Zamfir right you piece of shit.

We don't need you're garbage drama and false quoting Vlad.

Checking he's history now I've seen that he did this before as well only against Dash and it is not surprising since Monero/Aeon developer himself started hate threads and then comes the shills right after it continuing talking random things up against Dash. It's pretty pathetic to be honest

P.S I think TechorMarketing deleted he's thread after getting to much heat https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14215301 ??

legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198

Was there some relevance there to bad crypto, because I didn't see it?

Oh I get it. The same personal vendetta that has john-conner following me around like a stalker and posting off-topic personal attacks has you doing the same thing.



STEEM is the perfect bad crypto ...

Please more specifically address the bad crypto you claim is in STEEM, that would at least be on topic here.

Do you even understand what "bad crypto" means in the context of this thread?
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1001
180 BPM

Was there some relevance there to bad crypto, because I didn't see it?

Oh I get it. The same personal vendetta that has john-conner following me around like a stalker and posting off-topic personal attacks has you doing the same thing.



STEEM is the perfect bad crypto as you can see in the description and the added bonus is you supporting it.

I want to see you spamming anti-STEEM threads.
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