The Lightning Network FAQ - page 28.

ndalliard

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Quote from: psycodad on October 04, 2021, 11:07:33 AM

Code:

"failreason": "WIRE_TEMPORARY_CHANNEL_FAILURE",
"failreason": "WIRE_REQUIRED_NODE_FEATURE_MISSING",

From grepping the sources I conclude these are both related to tor connections in some way.
The first seems to be nodes down the routing path being unreachable and the second I do not understand completely yet but it seems related to a disagreement of nodes regarding some HTLC parameters.
Will keep reading the debug.log around successful and failed transactions to try to get a better understanding on what exactly happens under the hood.

not sure the first is (only) tor related:

Code:

case WIRE_TEMPORARY_CHANNEL_FAILURE: {
/* These are an indication that the capacity was insufficient,
* remember the amount we tried as an estimate. */

source: https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/blob/5c38e5a08fbf15cc4a7e31ef1a017b580b11a4c6/plugins/libplugin-pay.c#L1250

psycodad

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Quote from: Rath_ on October 04, 2021, 10:30:22 AM

Quote from: psycodad on October 04, 2021, 09:35:23 AM

Does getroute not know the capacity/liquidity of channels in transit?

No, liquidity is not advertised across the network. That would be a privacy infringement. It knows the total channel capacity, though.

Makes perfect sense, I confused capacity with current liquidity.
Otherwise it would be possible to see which channels are used or not by taking snapshots of the liquidity balance from them. My thinking error.

Quote from: Rath_ on October 04, 2021, 10:30:22 AM

Quote from: psycodad on October 04, 2021, 09:35:23 AM

Or what other reasons can make a transaction fail (locally or remote)?

Locally: Check out this comment. There are apparently five possible causes. lightning-cli listforwards returns the exact error if a transaction fails locally.

Remotely: Some node might fail a transaction locally or suddenly go offline. There might be some other causes that I am not aware of at the moment too.

Thanks, funny enough the two errors I get locally are not listed there:

Code:

"failreason": "WIRE_TEMPORARY_CHANNEL_FAILURE",
"failreason": "WIRE_REQUIRED_NODE_FEATURE_MISSING",

From grepping the sources I conclude these are both related to tor connections in some way.
The first seems to be nodes down the routing path being unreachable and the second I do not understand completely yet but it seems related to a disagreement of nodes regarding some HTLC parameters.
Will keep reading the debug.log around successful and failed transactions to try to get a better understanding on what exactly happens under the hood.

Rath_

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Quote from: psycodad on October 04, 2021, 09:35:23 AM

Does getroute not know the capacity/liquidity of channels in transit?

No, liquidity is not advertised across the network. That would be a privacy infringement. It knows the total channel capacity, though.

Quote from: psycodad on October 04, 2021, 09:35:23 AM

Or what other reasons can make a transaction fail (locally or remote)?

Locally: Check out this comment. There are apparently five possible causes. lightning-cli listforwards returns the exact error if a transaction fails locally.

Remotely: Some node might fail a transaction locally or suddenly go offline. There might be some other causes that I am not aware of at the moment too.

psycodad

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Quote from: Rath_ on October 04, 2021, 09:22:48 AM

Quote from: psycodad on October 04, 2021, 08:48:46 AM

I get about as much failed transactions as successful ones on my node.

It's completely normal. I have successfully routed 84 transactions and I have 357 failed transactions.

Thanks for your reply and explanation, that's comforting to know, I first thought I'd possibly stuck my fat fingers too deep into the thing at some point Grin

Quote from: Rath_ on October 04, 2021, 09:22:48 AM

Quote from: psycodad on October 04, 2021, 08:48:46 AM

Does anybody know how I can further investigate the reason for failed transactions (RTL just says "failed" as status) ?

"Failed" means that the transaction failed at some further point in the route. If your node fails to route a payment then you will see "Local_failed" instead. You can't really do much about it. If you see a lot of 10, 10k, 100k sat failed payments then someone is very likely probing your channels. It can be done with any other amount as well.

Checking further, I saw that I also have a few "Local Failed" transactions.
But I am still wondering what would make a transaction fail. I played around a bit with the "getroute" rpc command and I was under the impression that querying a route given a certain amount to transfer will only return channels that have the respective capacity/liquidity to route this payment. Is this wrong? Does getroute not know the capacity/liquidity of channels in transit?
Or what other reasons can make a transaction fail (locally or remote)?

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Quote from: Rizzrack on October 04, 2021, 08:17:58 AM

I fired up an umbrel node also. Took ~4days for sync but after this it does not display the info properly...

Only had a 500GB SSD around so I assume that might be the issue. It still has 24GB available though. Will retry with a 1TB as soon as I get my hands on one

When it's all done you need more then 500GB, between the blockchain, the LN database and the Electrum DB:
A 1TB will be fine for a long time to come, but 500 GB is just not going to work with everything.
You might be able just to shut it down and clone the 500GB to a 1TB but I would just let it resync.

-Dave

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Quote from: psycodad on October 04, 2021, 08:48:46 AM

I get about as much failed transactions as successful ones on my node.

It's completely normal. I have successfully routed 84 transactions and I have 357 failed ones.

Quote from: psycodad on October 04, 2021, 08:48:46 AM

Does anybody know how I can further investigate the reason for failed transactions (RTL just says "failed" as status) ?

"Failed" means that the transaction failed at some further point in the route. If your node fails to route a payment then you will see "Local_failed" instead. You can't really do much about it. If you see a lot of 10, 10k, 100k sat failed payments then someone is very likely probing your channels. It can be done with any other amount as well.

psycodad

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I get about as much failed transactions as successful ones on my node.

Does anybody know how I can further investigate the reason for failed transactions (RTL just says "failed" as status) ?

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Quote from: Roversee on September 30, 2021, 05:50:03 AM

... Where is the post where the "Lightning network" was first proposed on this forum?

Sounded like a weird question at first but got me wondering... Seems that Mike Hearn pointed to this thread : Instant TX for established business relationships (need replacements/nLockTime) as the Lighning Network's primordial forum soup

Quote from: jav on August 25, 2011, 06:18:09 PM

So I decided to put together an umbel box to compare it to raspiblitz / mynode

I fired up an umbrel node also. Took ~4days for sync but after this it does not display the info properly...

Only had a 500GB SSD around so I assume that might be the issue. It still has 24GB available though. Will retry with a 1TB as soon as I get my hands on one

darkv0rt3x

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on October 01, 2021, 04:29:38 PM

Found some cool creations; sharing!

The Quickening — Bitcoin Lightning Network PoS Terminal (<$8)
https://github.com/arcbtc/Quickening

LNURLPoS — Cheap, offline(!), DIY bitcoin lightning-network PoS
https://github.com/arcbtc/LNURLPoS

Check this too
https://twitter.com/arcbtc/status/1443933320056823809

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Found some cool creations; sharing!

The Quickening — Bitcoin Lightning Network PoS Terminal (<$8)
https://github.com/arcbtc/Quickening

LNURLPoS — Cheap, offline(!), DIY bitcoin lightning-network PoS
https://github.com/arcbtc/LNURLPoS

Timelord2067

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I wouldn't say I "want" to be a Lightning Router, rather, after I'd installed those apps (on my PC and Android phone) I saw there was activity, now there is none and I was wondering if there might be an error in the app or network.

Now I can see the activity I once had was more by fluke than anything (and no, I'm not connected to overly large nodes, but by the same token I'm not connected to the same nodes I once was).

n0nce

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Quote from: Timelord2067 on October 01, 2021, 09:35:12 AM

Quote from: Rath_ on September 30, 2021, 05:12:37 PM

As for the Zap, you can actually download and run lncli to manage the built-in LND node. See this guide. Once you have installed it, you should be able to use lncli updatechanpolicy command to modify the fee policy of your every channel.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll have a look and see if I can get it working, otherwise, I'll just slowly empty the funds to enable me to have inbound capacity on those apps with just a nominal amount left in reserve for a rainy day.

If you want to be a Lightning router, I would highly suggest installing a dedicated machine in your network running Linux and c-lightning or lnd.

Opening channels between two already connected (large) nodes makes little sense, so try creating new connections that don't already exist. It's also a lot of trial and error; there's no perfect recipe on how to create the perfect channels. If you see no traffic over a link for a while, close it and open another etc. Wink

You also may want to explore if the nodes that you'd like to connect through you already have (direct or indirect) connections via Lightning explorers like https://amboss.space/ or https://1ml.com/.

Timelord2067

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Quote from: Rath_ on September 30, 2021, 05:12:37 PM

As for the Zap, you can actually download and run lncli to manage the built-in LND node. See this guide. Once you have installed it, you should be able to use lncli updatechanpolicy command to modify the fee policy of your every channel.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll have a look and see if I can get it working, otherwise, I'll just slowly empty the funds to enable me to have inbound capacity on those apps with just a nominal amount left in reserve for a rainy day.

Rath_

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Quote from: Timelord2067 on September 30, 2021, 01:29:48 PM

Neither Zap for PC nore Eclair for Android have any mechanism to change the fees collected.

I don't think that Eclair Mobile has ever been capable of routing payments. I believe that it creates only private channels. You would be required to keep the app active in the background all the time. Your available balance might have been slightly shifting because new commitment transactions with different fees are signed periodically. The founder of the channel always pays the closing fee so that's why it's deducted from your balance.

As for the Zap, you can actually download and run lncli to manage the built-in LND node. See this guide. Once you have installed it, you should be able to use lncli updatechanpolicy command to modify the fee policy of your every channel.

Timelord2067

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Quote from: DaveF on September 30, 2021, 08:05:06 AM

What do you have your fees set to? If they are too high even if you are a more direct route most wallets will still choose a cheaper path.
Beyond that, the only other thought is that some people have connected to places they want to spend directly.

Neither Zap for PC nore Eclair for Android have any mechanism to change the fees collected. Zap you can set an upper limit for fees paid on out bound (presumably from yourself) while Eclair you can set a satoshi per kb on the block-chain transactions, but not for Lightning.

Quote from: Rath_ on September 30, 2021, 08:19:07 AM

Quote from: Timelord2067 on September 30, 2021, 07:06:17 AM

I have a half dozen channels open on each to various large nodes

That's very likely the cause. You should check if those large nodes have channels between themselves.

I know one node does have two nodes (one each clear and onion) however not all of the nodes I currently have are particularly large.

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Quote from: Roversee on September 30, 2021, 05:50:03 AM

Hi guys, I am new here... Where is the post where the "Lightning network" was first proposed on this forum?

To inspire another member to do some work for you (in the event that s/he does not know the answer right of the top of his/her head), maybe you could explain some efforts (work) that you have already attempted in this matter, and maybe even through such efforts, you would end up finding the information that you are seeking and further be able to provide that information to the rest of us who are following this thread?

Wow a hypothetical way to actually contribute value!!! rather than appearing as someone who merely is striving to cause work upon others.

Rath_

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Quote from: Timelord2067 on September 30, 2021, 07:06:17 AM

I have a half dozen channels open on each to various large nodes

That's very likely the cause. You should check if those large nodes have channels between themselves.

Quote from: DaveF on September 30, 2021, 07:16:28 AM

Almost like I am 2nd or 3rd choice for a lot of people so when #1 & #2 are down I get the traffic, but then months with nothing, then transactions again.

I have a channel to both Bitfinex and Nicehash. I routed quite a few large payments between these two nodes at the beginning. It turned out that they are connected directly so I guess their channel was often unbalanced at that time. Unfortunately, Bitfinex has changed their fee policy and I very rarely see any activity between those two channels now.

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Quote from: Timelord2067 on September 30, 2021, 07:32:28 AM

I *was* connected to a few of the users in these threads that have posted node addresses, but some of them have closed from the other end. Perhaps in time the funds will start shifting again, but at the moment I'm wondering if my choices of nodes to connect to are the issue?

What do you have your fees set to? If they are too high even if you are a more direct route most wallets will still choose a cheaper path.
Beyond that, the only other thought is that some people have connected to places they want to spend directly.

-Dave

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Quote from: DaveF on September 30, 2021, 07:16:28 AM

Are you talking about things like this with people routing through you:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56082955
Or other transactions?

All of the balances remain stagnant/unchanged unless I make a transaction myself.

Quote

I have found that routing through my node happens in bursts.
Almost like I am 2nd or 3rd choice for a lot of people so when #1 & #2 are down I get the traffic, but then months with nothing, then transactions again.

-Dave

I *was* connected to a few of the users in these threads that have posted node addresses, but some of them have closed from the other end. Perhaps in time the funds will start shifting again, but at the moment I'm wondering if my choices of nodes to connect to are the issue?

DaveF

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Quote from: Timelord2067 on September 30, 2021, 07:06:17 AM

Is anyone using either Zap or Eclair wallets? I have a half dozen channels open on each to various large nodes, but haven't had *any* movement for many months now.

On my old PC & phone I could see the balances shifting on a daily basis, but with the new hardware, no movement at all.

Are you talking about things like this with people routing through you:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56082955
Or other transactions?

I have found that routing through my node happens in bursts.
Almost like I am 2nd or 3rd choice for a lot of people so when #1 & #2 are down I get the traffic, but then months with nothing, then transactions again.

-Dave

Topic: The Lightning Network FAQ - page 28. (Read 32079 times)