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Topic: The Lightning Network FAQ - page 72. (Read 33311 times)

sr. member
Activity: 279
Merit: 435
December 25, 2019, 04:25:11 PM
So you open 2 channels on different devices: 1 channel to Bob, who runs a well-connected node, and another channel to Alice, who also runs a well-connected node. From your device connected to Bob, you send funds to your device connected to Alice. After you close the channels, there is no direct blockchain connection between your transactions.
But you can't receive on your channel to Alice until you make some payments, and you'll be able to only receive as much as you pay. So you basically get back at spending your bitcoins on the LN.
This also assumes the output you used to fund the channel to Alice is not tainted in any way.

So the question is: who's going to keep track of all LN-transactions, and for how long?
What do you mean by LN-transactions ?
If you mean LN payments, they (normally) cannot be linked.
If you mean Bitcoin transactions opening or closing (in any way) channels, then I think already-mentioned-above companies already do.

And although I'm not sure if LN works like this: if your channel to and from the node is not public, only Bob and Alice know the exact connection.
You should not rely on unpublished channels, they are biggest (potential) privacy leaks than they seem to be (in addition to having many other downsides). (Non-related to the initial subject, but if you are interested Smiley https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/681)
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
December 25, 2019, 03:49:07 PM
However, if you fund a channel with a so-called tainted output, close the channel with remaining funds on your side then nothing was mixed at all.
So you open 2 channels on different devices: 1 channel to Bob, who runs a well-connected node, and another channel to Alice, who also runs a well-connected node. From your device connected to Bob, you send funds to your device connected to Alice. After you close the channels, there is no direct blockchain connection between your transactions.
So the question is: who's going to keep track of all LN-transactions, and for how long? And although I'm not sure if LN works like this: if your channel to and from the node is not public, only Bob and Alice know the exact connection.
sr. member
Activity: 279
Merit: 435
December 25, 2019, 11:56:11 AM
Possible use-case for Lightning. Viable as a trust-minimized alternative to mixing/tumbling if privacy features are developed.

Your thoughts?
Viable if you never get back on chain (or spend everything on the Lightning Network)  Wink But privacy features *are needed* a step before accessing the LN anyway, and it is not an alternative in any way.


Never? What/how would someone track my transactions to myself in Lightning, with privacy features enabled?
I meant from the Bitcoin network (/block chain) point of view the channel is just a transaction with a P2WSH output, if you spend all your funds on the Lightning Network then it means that you locally transferred funds to your channel peer. When closing, the transaction output will belong to the peer and you effectively spend funds without the observer knowing where they were going (once again for a Bitcoin network observer, with no knowledge of the Lightning Network).
However, if you fund a channel with a so-called tainted output, close the channel with remaining funds on your side then nothing was mixed at all.

What do you mean by "with privacy features enabled" ?


PS: I didn't want to even mention it but Khaos77's message above is of course nonsense...
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 25, 2019, 03:09:09 AM
Trolls doesn't believe that development of privacy features are possible in Lightning. Plus I encourage bad-actors/spying-agencies to "track" Lightning transactions. They would have to stake Bitcoin and help with liquidity. Cool
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 25, 2019, 12:50:51 AM
Possible use-case for Lightning. Viable as a trust-minimized alternative to mixing/tumbling if privacy features are developed.

Your thoughts?
Viable if you never get back on chain (or spend everything on the Lightning Network)  Wink But privacy features *are needed* a step before accessing the LN anyway, and it is not an alternative in any way.


Never? What/how would someone track my transactions to myself in Lightning, with privacy features enabled?
sr. member
Activity: 279
Merit: 435
December 24, 2019, 11:33:09 AM
Possible use-case for Lightning. Viable as a trust-minimized alternative to mixing/tumbling if privacy features are developed.

Your thoughts?
Viable if you never get back on chain (or spend everything on the Lightning Network)  Wink But privacy features *are needed* a step before accessing the LN anyway, and it is not an alternative in any way.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 24, 2019, 03:42:31 AM
Possible use-case for Lightning. Viable as a trust-minimized alternative to mixing/tumbling if privacy features are developed.

Your thoughts?
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
December 13, 2019, 03:07:54 AM
The Wikipedia page for the Lightning Network is being considered for deletion. Why censor technical information, and how can it be saved?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Network



in which case, wikipedia is "not notable"


my suggestions

1. Make your screenshot as small or smaller than the way I have
2. Make the screenshot within your actual mind of wikipedia's importance commensurately smaller still
3. Stop talking about wikipedia as if it's a thing

the alternative is to allow a platform that is being redacted and censored along political lines to determine what "is" is. Take that power away from them, and they have the no such power to do any such thing
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
December 12, 2019, 04:44:03 AM
The Wikipedia page for the Lightning Network is being considered for deletion. Why censor technical information, and how can it be saved?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Network



Seems that the involved editors are merely suggesting to combine Lightning Network under bitcoin rather than to delete the information?  Might be a temporary measure, no?
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 12, 2019, 04:10:58 AM
The Wikipedia page for the Lightning Network is being considered for deletion. Why censor technical information, and how can it be saved?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Network

sr. member
Activity: 279
Merit: 435
December 09, 2019, 12:40:31 PM
hello everyone... is it possible to use all the funds in the locked channel??
Hi philboosty,

You can use all the funds you locked, minus the reserve (used to maintain the incentive of both parties to not try to cheat).
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
December 09, 2019, 11:31:40 AM
hello everyone... is it possible to use all the funds in the locked channel??
sr. member
Activity: 279
Merit: 435
December 09, 2019, 04:40:44 AM
Hi guys,

I have recently decided I had to get a Lightning wallet and wanted to hear from you guys

What are the best wallets compatible with lightning?

Can I use the lightning network for long term storage?

Thanks


I might get some criticisms, but just use BlueWallet. It's the easiest UX to get started in Lightning for newbies.

https://bluewallet.io
If someone wants (need?) to go as far as using a custodial wallet, ACINQ's Phoenix might be a good choice. And, at least, they tend toward removing the custodian (but for sure less toward removing the reliance on their services  Tongue )
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 09, 2019, 02:50:27 AM
This tool might be useful for some of you LN "extremists".

https://tip.bigsun.xyz

The developers also need a front-end designer/developer, a volunteer. Cool
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
December 06, 2019, 04:38:44 AM
I might get some criticisms, but just use BlueWallet. It's the easiest UX to get started in Lightning for newbies.
I agree. But for long-term storage it's a terrible idea to use a custodial wallet (similar to using exchanges for long-term storage).
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 06, 2019, 04:35:50 AM
Hi guys,

I have recently decided I had to get a Lightning wallet and wanted to hear from you guys

What are the best wallets compatible with lightning?

Can I use the lightning network for long term storage?

Thanks


I might get some criticisms, but just use BlueWallet. It's the easiest UX to get started in Lightning for newbies.

https://bluewallet.io
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
December 04, 2019, 04:17:53 AM
I have recently decided I had to get a Lightning wallet
Why?

Quote
What are the best wallets compatible with lightning?
It depends.

Quote
Can I use the lightning network for long term storage?
This question is what made me ask "Why" you want a LN wallet. I use my LN-wallet for small, frequent payments, which is what LN can do much cheaper than on-chain Bitcoin.
However, when you're talking about long-term storage, there's absolutely no reason to do that in an open LN-channel!
sr. member
Activity: 412
Merit: 250
December 03, 2019, 11:17:17 PM
Hi guys,

I have recently decided I had to get a Lightning wallet and wanted to hear from you guys

What are the best wallets compatible with lightning?

Can I use the lightning network for long term storage?

Thanks
sr. member
Activity: 279
Merit: 435
December 02, 2019, 06:00:04 AM
Is there any way to download clightning binaries which were compiled with `--enable-developer`? Maybe they are shared as a regular version.
No, but building C-lightning is really straightforward.

Hi. What i want to ask is, if possible can i run a lightning node on my pc 24/7 or i should buy a server or vps for this? Maybe server is safer. And how much bitcoin i need to start a lightning node/channel?
Hi,

As you want.
Running one on your host is completely feasible and I think that's what most of people do (according to some stats made by Christian Decker and presented at TheLightningConference).
A server is not "safer", but will make you a better routing node as you will have a far better uptime.
There is minimum required, but in practice some node force a minimum to open a channel with them. You could try out the Lightning Network just by opening a few channels of few millis worth.
hero member
Activity: 1414
Merit: 516
December 02, 2019, 04:59:14 AM
Hi. What i want to ask is, if possible can i run a lightning node on my pc 24/7 or i should buy a server or vps for this? Maybe server is safer. And how much bitcoin i need to start a lightning node/channel?
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