The Lightning Network FAQ - page 73.

Carlton Banks

legendary

Activity: 3430

Merit: 3083

Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 12, 2019, 04:10:58 AM

The Wikipedia page for the Lightning Network is being considered for deletion. Why censor technical information, and how can it be saved?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Network

in which case, wikipedia is "not notable"

my suggestions

1. Make your screenshot as small or smaller than the way I have
2. Make the screenshot within your actual mind of wikipedia's importance commensurately smaller still
3. Stop talking about wikipedia as if it's a thing

the alternative is to allow a platform that is being redacted and censored along political lines to determine what "is" is. Take that power away from them, and they have the no such power to do any such thing

JayJuanGee

legendary

Activity: 3962

Merit: 11519

Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 12, 2019, 04:10:58 AM

The Wikipedia page for the Lightning Network is being considered for deletion. Why censor technical information, and how can it be saved?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Network

Seems that the involved editors are merely suggesting to combine Lightning Network under bitcoin rather than to delete the information? Might be a temporary measure, no?

Wind_FURY

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1823

The Wikipedia page for the Lightning Network is being considered for deletion. Why censor technical information, and how can it be saved?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Network

darosior

sr. member

Activity: 279

Merit: 435

Quote from: philboosty on December 09, 2019, 11:31:40 AM

hello everyone... is it possible to use all the funds in the locked channel??

Hi philboosty,

You can use all the funds you locked, minus the reserve (used to maintain the incentive of both parties to not try to cheat).

philboosty

newbie

Activity: 4

Merit: 0

hello everyone... is it possible to use all the funds in the locked channel??

darosior

sr. member

Activity: 279

Merit: 435

Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 06, 2019, 04:35:50 AM

Quote from: LiberOptions on December 03, 2019, 11:17:17 PM

Hi guys,

I have recently decided I had to get a Lightning wallet and wanted to hear from you guys

What are the best wallets compatible with lightning?

Can I use the lightning network for long term storage?

Thanks

I might get some criticisms, but just use BlueWallet. It's the easiest UX to get started in Lightning for newbies.

https://bluewallet.io

If someone wants (need?) to go as far as using a custodial wallet, ACINQ's Phoenix might be a good choice. And, at least, they tend toward removing the custodian (but for sure less toward removing the reliance on their services Tongue

)

Wind_FURY

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1823

This tool might be useful for some of you LN "extremists".

https://tip.bigsun.xyz

The developers also need a front-end designer/developer, a volunteer. Cool

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 06, 2019, 04:35:50 AM

I might get some criticisms, but just use BlueWallet. It's the easiest UX to get started in Lightning for newbies.

I agree. But for long-term storage it's a terrible idea to use a custodial wallet (similar to using exchanges for long-term storage).

Wind_FURY

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1823

Quote from: LiberOptions on December 03, 2019, 11:17:17 PM

Hi guys,

I have recently decided I had to get a Lightning wallet and wanted to hear from you guys

What are the best wallets compatible with lightning?

Can I use the lightning network for long term storage?

Thanks

I might get some criticisms, but just use BlueWallet. It's the easiest UX to get started in Lightning for newbies.

https://bluewallet.io

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: LiberOptions on December 03, 2019, 11:17:17 PM

I have recently decided I had to get a Lightning wallet

Why?

Quote

What are the best wallets compatible with lightning?

It depends.

Quote

Can I use the lightning network for long term storage?

This question is what made me ask "Why" you want a LN wallet. I use my LN-wallet for small, frequent payments, which is what LN can do much cheaper than on-chain Bitcoin.
However, when you're talking about long-term storage, there's absolutely no reason to do that in an open LN-channel!

LiberOptions

sr. member

Activity: 412

Merit: 250

Hi guys,

I have recently decided I had to get a Lightning wallet and wanted to hear from you guys

What are the best wallets compatible with lightning?

Can I use the lightning network for long term storage?

Thanks

darosior

sr. member

Activity: 279

Merit: 435

Quote from: samuel-sd on December 01, 2019, 06:35:08 PM

Is there any way to download clightning binaries which were compiled with `--enable-developer`? Maybe they are shared as a regular version.

No, but building C-lightning is really straightforward.

Quote from: Adriano2010 on December 02, 2019, 04:59:14 AM

Hi. What i want to ask is, if possible can i run a lightning node on my pc 24/7 or i should buy a server or vps for this? Maybe server is safer. And how much bitcoin i need to start a lightning node/channel?

Hi,

As you want.
Running one on your host is completely feasible and I think that's what most of people do (according to some stats made by Christian Decker and presented at TheLightningConference).
A server is not "safer", but will make you a better routing node as you will have a far better uptime.
There is minimum required, but in practice some node force a minimum to open a channel with them. You could try out the Lightning Network just by opening a few channels of few millis worth.

Adriano2010

hero member

Activity: 1414

Merit: 516

Hi. What i want to ask is, if possible can i run a lightning node on my pc 24/7 or i should buy a server or vps for this? Maybe server is safer. And how much bitcoin i need to start a lightning node/channel?

samuel-sd

member

Activity: 194

Merit: 74

Quote from: darosior on December 01, 2019, 05:56:59 PM

however if you want 0 gossip you can still compile with `--enable-developer` and use the `dev-suppress-gossip` command.

Thanks a lot! You made everything clear.
Is there any way to download clightning binaries which were compiled with `--enable-developer`? Maybe they are shared as a regular version.

darosior

sr. member

Activity: 279

Merit: 435

Hi,

Quote from: samuel-sd on December 01, 2019, 04:52:04 PM

Hi! I have a couple of question about c-lightning
The first question:
As far as I understood, c-lightning wants to run bitcoin-cli executable in order to communicate with bitcoind service. In my case, I would like to run c-lightning in its independent docker container and it would be nice if c-lightning works only with its own files and libraries. Is there any way to use c-lightning without providing bitcoin-cli?

There are docker provided, but with `bitcoin[d/cli]` integrated.

Quote from: samuel-sd on December 01, 2019, 04:52:04 PM

LND, for example, is able to communicate with bitcoind through a tcpip port without using any bitcoind files. Can c-lightning do the same somehow?

Not for now, but that might change in the near future.

Quote from: samuel-sd on December 01, 2019, 04:52:04 PM

The second question
I want to use c-lightning nodes only for receiving funds, in my case a c-lightning node is not going to send any bitcoin, only receive it. I know that lightningd service gathers and processes the graph information from the network. This process consumes lots of memory and CPU resources, but I don't think it’s necessary in my case, because this information is required only for sending bitcoin not receiving it. May I switch the lightningd to the mode, when it will just maintain the only channel it has and provide invoices/wait for incoming transaction without downloading and processing extra network information?

This cost has been drastically reduced in the last release, however if you want 0 gossip you can still compile with `--enable-developer` and use the `dev-suppress-gossip` command.

samuel-sd

member

Activity: 194

Merit: 74

Hi! I have a couple of question about c-lightning
The first question:
As far as I understood, c-lightning wants to run bitcoin-cli executable in order to communicate with bitcoind service. In my case, I would like to run c-lightning in its independent docker container and it would be nice if c-lightning works only with its own files and libraries. Is there any way to use c-lightning without providing bitcoin-cli?
LND, for example, is able to communicate with bitcoind through a tcpip port without using any bitcoind files. Can c-lightning do the same somehow?

The second question
I want to use c-lightning nodes only for receiving funds, in my case a c-lightning node is not going to send any bitcoin, only receive it. I know that lightningd service gathers and processes the graph information from the network. This process consumes lots of memory and CPU resources, but I don't think it’s necessary in my case, because this information is required only for sending bitcoin not receiving it. May I switch the lightningd to the mode, when it will just maintain the only channel it has and provide invoices/wait for incoming transaction without downloading and processing extra network information?

RapTarX

hero member

Activity: 1358

Merit: 851

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 27, 2019, 02:44:26 PM

LN will never be solution, Satoshi said that onchain transactions will support miners in the future, with LN there is no fees for the real miners that support blockchain, with time the fee of one ON-CHAIN transaction will be huge.

LN still need on-chain transaction to open and close channel

As long as I am not closing a channel, I can settle any transaction. Won't it reduce the on-chain transaction heavily? Which is good in some case though but still cfbtcman question is there.

Well, I am a newbie in LN, not much old in Bitcoin as well.

For me, until now, LN is-

Here- Bob (X) is a client who used to shop with BTC. Since the fee is high, he is looking for alternative way, hence he got LN.
He knows if he creates a channel with Y(Route?)- who already have channel with a lot of Bob's favorite shop, he can settle a lot of payments in most of the shops he is used to go daily.

I am trying to learn it from the perspective of a client of a lot of shops so that I can pay micro payments with bitcoin.
Please correct my above statement, for last 3/4 days, I am spending a lot of time into LN. Have read some parts of the whitepaper here- https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf

darosior

sr. member

Activity: 279

Merit: 435

Quote from: samuel-sd on November 06, 2019, 11:23:14 PM

Quote from: darosior on November 05, 2019, 05:59:29 PM

I'm glad that you are pleased with C-lightning

Yay! It finally works! Cheesy

I built a network structure with an lnd node as a main hub and many c-lightning nodes as points.
The hub has a few channels with well connected nodes and points have channels only with the hub.
I just sent a few transactions from outside to one of my points and the hub transferred the payments and collected fees.

(A)------>(B)----->(C)----->(D)

As far I got the fee system, if node A sends a transaction to node D, node B will collect a fee from the channel between B and C and C will collect a fee from the channel between C and D, right?
Nodes cannot collect fees from incoming channels, only from outgoing?

Fees are taken as a delta between received payment and sent payment, basically you receive more on you incoming channel than you send on the outgoing one.
With your above example a simple schema would be:

Code:

# A wants to send 10000msat to D
# D only accepts incoming HTLCs with at least 9 as CLTV value
# A computes a (naive) route backwards

amounts:                      10003msat              10002msat             10000msat
                      (A)      ------>       (B)      ----->      (C)      ----->     (D)
CLTV deltas:                     15                      13                  9
# In this scenario (C) took more fees than (A) and imposes a bigger CLTV delay for outgoing HTLCs

Quote from: samuel-sd on November 06, 2019, 11:23:14 PM

By the way, I found that c-lightning daemons use 170Mb of RAM (lnd uses 400Mb) and they use CPU gently when they download the network graph. They don't use all available CPU resources no matter what it takes.

Recent optimisations have been made with gossip and thus it's now less resource incentive (less bandwidth consumption, so maybe also less CPU consumption ? Didn't benchmark it)

darosior

sr. member

Activity: 279

Merit: 435

Quote from: samuel-sd on November 06, 2019, 02:21:56 PM

Quote from: darosior on November 06, 2019, 05:57:02 AM

Hmm that's `lightningd.sqlite3`.. I don't think there is much sense in having another file which is updated at the same time `lightningd.sqlite3` is updated and that contains the same informations.

In this case I can have one lightningd.sqlite3 on my node and another one in a cloud (I used NFS storage on a cloud vps)
lightningd.sqlite3 stores not only channel balances but lots of other stuff. lightningd.sqlite3 changes too often

Quote

For safeguard I use:
- .................. Grin

Let's imagine my hard drive failed or there was a power outage or something else happened and I am not sure if the lightningd.sqlite3 is intact (or I lost it). I restored onchain data from hsm_secret. What should I do to get my node up and running again? What about my channels and funds in them?

You cannot derive channel states from the hsm...

Quote from: samuel-sd on November 06, 2019, 02:21:56 PM

Quote

I think the change has to come from the protocol

Exactly!

[/quote]
That being said, it's not __that__ simple: basically tradeof is often taken over privacy..

samuel-sd

member

Activity: 194

Merit: 74

Quote from: darosior on November 05, 2019, 05:59:29 PM

I'm glad that you are pleased with C-lightning

Yay! It finally works! Cheesy

I built a network structure with an lnd node as a main hub and many c-lightning nodes as points.
The hub has a few channels with well connected nodes and points have channels only with the hub.
I just sent a few transactions from outside to one of my points and the hub transferred the payments and collected fees.

(A)------>(B)----->(C)----->(D)

As far I got the fee system, if node A sends a transaction to node D, node B will collect a fee from the channel between B and C and C will collect a fee from the channel between C and D, right?
Nodes cannot collect fees from incoming channels, only from outgoing?

By the way, I found that c-lightning daemons use 170Mb of RAM (lnd uses 400Mb) and they use CPU gently when they download the network graph. They don't use all available CPU resources no matter what it takes.

Topic: The Lightning Network FAQ - page 73. (Read 33805 times)