The Lightning Network FAQ - page 76.

Rath_

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Quote from: bitart on August 07, 2019, 03:51:35 PM

Does it worth the time and the energy to start again with a Raspberry PI? (I have it, I won't use it for anything else, and I don't want to sell it, so if it won't be painfully slow or useless, is there any reason why not to play with it again?)

Using a Raspberry Pi is kinda a bumpy ride. It works well for most of the time, but sometimes, it slows down for no reason. It will be usable if you don't mind waiting another 30 seconds from time to time.

Quote from: bitart on August 07, 2019, 03:51:35 PM

If it's OK to start a node on Raspberry, which one would you recommend?
Is neutrino a working solution now (it was in a really beta state in 2017), or I should attach a HDD to the PI with the blockchain, downloaded previously with a PC, and start a full node?

Most tutorials out there are made for LND which is the only implementation supporting neutrino. Neutrino seems to be working fine since Lightning Lab decided to use it in their mobile mainnet Lightning Network wallet. There's also another light client called Breez available on iOS which also uses neutrino.

Carlton Banks

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neutrino's probably improved since you last used it, but I don't have any experience of that. The bitcoin network will have alot more neutrino nodes in either the October release or the April release of the core node software, but until then you'll be relying on the small number of btcd nodes that support it

bitart

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Vires in Numeris

Hi,
I've read the FAQ and have a simple question:
I know that it's possible to run a LN node on Raspberry PI (because I have one and I had a node on it in 2017 (I know, long time ago))
Fees has settled and I've switched off the node and forgot about it, it's in the drawer, untouched since the power off.
It was a neutrino node (without the copy of the blockchain downloaded locally)

So my question is:
If I just switch it on, it will be really outdated (it was an LND node)

Does it worth the time and the energy to start again with a Raspberry PI? (I have it, I won't use it for anything else, and I don't want to sell it, so if it won't be painfully slow or useless, is there any reason why not to play with it again?)

If it's OK to start a node on Raspberry, which one would you recommend?
Is neutrino a working solution now (it was in a really beta state in 2017), or I should attach a HDD to the PI with the blockchain, downloaded previously with a PC, and start a full node?

Thanks for the answers in advance, I'm not lazy to read and to search, but I need someone to show the right direction before I start searching and reading a lot

Rath_

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Quote from: cfbtcman on August 06, 2019, 12:20:17 PM

Yeah, but i have my on-chain channel and i first need to send the coins to another LN address and just after that i can start to receive, in the case of making a node i can start to receive immediately or i need to send coins first too?

Once you fund the node's on-chain address and decide to open a channel, your coins will be automatically moved to a new multisig address controlled by you and the other party who accepted your proposal. After a few confirmations, the channel will become active and you should be able to send coins over the Lightning Network. You won't be able to receive payments unless you spend some coins or ask someone to open a channel to you.

cfbtcman

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Quote from: Rath_ on August 06, 2019, 02:08:47 AM

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 07:24:55 PM

I see, so every node have standard limits to start or it depends the money owners put in?

No, there isn't a minimum amount of coins needed to start a node. You can run a Lightning Network node without any channels (no coins used) as long as you have available resources on your server. The Lightning Network node without any channels doesn't do anything at all. The node has its own on-chain address from which coins are taken when one wants to fund a channel. One can't open a big Lightning Network channel and split it later into smaller ones.

Yeah, but i have my on-chain channel and i first need to send the coins to another LN address and just after that i can start to receive, in the case of making a node i can start to receive immediately or i need to send coins first too?

Rath_

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Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 07:24:55 PM

I see, so every node have standard limits to start or it depends the money owners put in?

No, there isn't a minimum amount of coins needed to start a node. You can run a Lightning Network node without any channels (no coins used) as long as you have available resources on your server. The Lightning Network node without any channels doesn't do anything at all. The node has its own on-chain address from which coins are taken when one wants to fund a channel. One can't open a big Lightning Network channel and split it later into smaller ones.

cfbtcman

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Quote from: Rath_ on August 05, 2019, 02:43:51 PM

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 02:36:50 PM

Ok and how can that guys coinplaza or bitrefill have so much inbound, need to run a node?

They run their own Lightning Network nodes and open new channels to people who want to rent inbound capacity from them. For example, Bitrefill charges 0.00005700 BTC for a 0.005 BTC channel. That's how they profit from locking up their coins for some time. Note that they also need to have inbound capacity if they want to route payments properly.

I see, so every node have standard limits to start or it depends the money owners put in?

Rath_

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Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 02:36:50 PM

Ok and how can that guys coinplaza or bitrefill have so much inbound, need to run a node?

They run their own Lightning Network nodes and open new channels to people who want to rent inbound capacity from them. For example, Bitrefill charges 0.00005700 BTC for a 0.005 BTC channel. That's how they profit from locking up their coins for some time. Note that they also need to have inbound capacity if they want to route payments properly.

cfbtcman

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 05, 2019, 06:05:08 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on August 05, 2019, 04:51:26 AM

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 04:28:02 AM

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.

It's not contradicting:
1. Is running a node demanding? Yes.
2. Do I have to run a node? No.

Quote

I watch too that in future LN will have Dual funded channels (both parties will be able to fund a channel) thats why i cant receive money

An easy way to get inbound capacity is to exchange some of your Bitcoin Lightning balance for Bitcoin on-chain. I've used Coinplaza.it for this at 1% fee. For a small amount, the fee they charge can be lower than the Bitcoin network fee they use.

As an alternative, in Eclair Wallet you can request inbound liquidity when you open a channel. That means the node will open and fund a channel back to you. I think they charge 1% for this (for 30 days), but the minimum amount is much higher than what you can exchange through Coinplaza.

You can also try Bitrefill for inbound capacity, https://www.bitrefill.com/

You can also purchase it with Dash, Dogrcoin, Litecoin, and Ethereum. Hahaha.

Ok and how can that guys coinplaza or bitrefill have so much inbound, need to run a node?

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: LoyceV on August 05, 2019, 04:51:26 AM

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 04:28:02 AM

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.

It's not contradicting:
1. Is running a node demanding? Yes.
2. Do I have to run a node? No.

Quote

I watch too that in future LN will have Dual funded channels (both parties will be able to fund a channel) thats why i cant receive money

An easy way to get inbound capacity is to exchange some of your Bitcoin Lightning balance for Bitcoin on-chain. I've used Coinplaza.it for this at 1% fee. For a small amount, the fee they charge can be lower than the Bitcoin network fee they use.

As an alternative, in Eclair Wallet you can request inbound liquidity when you open a channel. That means the node will open and fund a channel back to you. I think they charge 1% for this (for 30 days), but the minimum amount is much higher than what you can exchange through Coinplaza.

You can also try Bitrefill for inbound capacity, https://www.bitrefill.com/

You can also purchase it with Dash, Dogrcoin, Litecoin, and Ethereum. Hahaha.

Rath_

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Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 04:28:02 AM

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.

Thanks for drawing my attention to these questions. I will rephrase the answers in a moment. LND is the only implementation that supports neutrino, so you have to run a full node on the others.

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 04:28:02 AM

i thought all the channels was dual funded, that way i can run a node without putting any money IN and dont risk to loose money, is that right?

As long as you don't have any coins on your side, yes. However, you won't be able to send transactions over the Lightning Network in such a case.

LoyceV

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Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 04:28:02 AM

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.

It's not contradicting:
1. Is running a node demanding? Yes.
2. Do I have to run a node? No.

Quote

I watch too that in future LN will have Dual funded channels (both parties will be able to fund a channel) thats why i cant receive money

An easy way to get inbound capacity is to exchange some of your Bitcoin Lightning balance for Bitcoin on-chain. I've used Coinplaza.it for this at 1% fee. For a small amount, the fee they charge can be lower than the Bitcoin network fee they use.

As an alternative, in Eclair Wallet you can request inbound liquidity when you open a channel. That means the node will open and fund a channel back to you. I think they charge 1% for this (for 30 days), but the minimum amount is much higher than what you can exchange through Coinplaza.

cfbtcman

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Quote from: Rath_ on June 26, 2019, 04:06:04 PM

Is running a Lightning Network node demanding?

You have to run a Bitcoin full node which uses the biggest part of available resources.

Do I have to run a full Bitcoin node?

No. LND supports neutrino which allows user to run a light node instead of a full one. It is a good solution for devices with low processing power and storage (Raspberry Pi).

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.
I watch too that in future LN will have Dual funded channels (both parties will be able to fund a channel) thats why i cant receive money, i thought all the channels was dual funded, that way i can run a node without putting any money IN and dont risk to loose money, is that right?

Rath_

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Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 01:08:27 AM

I installed Eclair Mobile and to receive LN it says i cant stay 2 weeks without connecting the phone to internet, what happens if i stay more than 2 weeks disconnected, i can lost LN funds?

If the other party forcefully closes the channel with an old state while you are offline, the closing transaction will be able to be confirmed after 2 weeks. You have 2 weeks to come back online. If you manage to do it, Eclair Mobile will publish a penalty transaction for you. Note that it will only happen if the other party has a malicious intent. I have never experienced it despite having many opened channels.

However, if you were to close the channel, you would have to wait only 720 blocks (~5 days). These are the default values negotiated by Eclair Mobile before the channel is funded.

cfbtcman

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Quote from: Rath_ on July 31, 2019, 12:19:32 PM

TL;DR Eclair Mobile is the best choice for now if you don't want to use a custodial wallet.

I installed Eclair Mobile and to receive LN it says i cant stay 2 weeks without connecting the phone to internet, what happens if i stay more than 2 weeks disconnected, i can lost LN funds?

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: cfbtcman on August 04, 2019, 07:04:29 PM

Im showing pratical cases about LN

you're doing nothing of the sort, hush

cfbtcman

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 02, 2019, 08:20:34 AM

@cfbtcman

please stop posting, you're talking total nonsense

this subforum is for cogent questions on and disseminating the technical aspects of Bitcoin, you are clearly incapable of making a useful contribution

Im showing pratical cases about LN, it seems in this wallet we can only receive after we give, if id like to receive without giving what can i do?
Imagine i want to open a comercial website selling 1 product by $1, i will sell 1 million products in one month, so 1 million dolares, how can i receive it by LN without need to put first 1 millions of dolars IN ?

If you know other wallet that permit that in LN please teach, because its seems we cant do it in Lighting Labs wallet, the other wallets permit that?

P.S.- If you are PRO it seems you are not doing nothing usefull too:

BTC 10 years existence = +- 450.000 transactions/day limit
BCH 2 years existence = 8.3 millions ?
BSV 1 year existence = 16 millions ?

What are you doing there?

Csmiami

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I'm sometimes known as "miniadmin"

Hey there! Sorry it took me so long to reply, but I was away on vacation only to get back home and discover that my ISP had changed....

Getting back on topic:

Quote from: Rath_ on July 20, 2019, 04:05:51 PM

Quote from: Csmiami on July 18, 2019, 10:43:26 AM

Apart from that, I seem to not be finding any other channels (All channels tab is with a big 0).

Have you tried disabling Windows Firewall and Windows Defender (or any other AV software)? If this doesn't work then there is something wrong with your router settings. How many connections does your Bitcoin Core have?

Windows Firewall and Microsoft Defender Wink

, had both whitelisted the app and I launched the program as an admin. I don't think there is an issue with that.

Core has around 70 connections when lauched normally; but when I create the config file, it goes down hard and is rather slow; honestly, I think it has the same behaviour as when I have not oppened the ports on the router

Quote from: Rath_ on July 20, 2019, 04:05:51 PM

Quote from: Csmiami on July 18, 2019, 10:43:26 AM

The only "issue" I have noticed between some youtube tutorials I've seen; is that when creating the bitcoin.conf file on core and restarting; I didn't get any "You need to rebuild the database....) message

It seems that you have already set the txindex to 1. Instead of setting it in the config file, try adding it as a launch parameter.

I believe that goes beyond my technical knowledge.... Cry

Carlton Banks

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@cfbtcman

please stop posting, you're talking total nonsense

this subforum is for cogent questions on and disseminating the technical aspects of Bitcoin, you are clearly incapable of making a useful contribution

cfbtcman

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This makes no sense, if i open a channel and i put 10$ someone needs to put 10$ too, in this case the guys from node and they will receive LN commissions of payments that i send and receive, seems pretty fair.

If i put $10 i should can receive at least other $10 (less fees), if someone send me $10 i should can close the channel and receive $20 on-chain (less fees of LN all the nodes that passed and fees on-chain)!

we need to put always much more to receive much less? Its crazy, its a bubble !

Imagine now i open one channel in the same node as you and i want to send you my 3,74€, i cant because you can only receive $0.02?

WTF?

You are saying that if we dont cash out anymore, we will receive the money back in our BTC address or in the BTC address where we put money IN that belongs to them?

If you note they have one option called "AUTOPILOT" that opens channels automatically, so if one channel closes they will open a new one immediatly and you will be always loosing fees to open and close channels, i put $10 and now just have 3,74€ and never did any transaction IN or OUT !

Send me please $0.01 REQUEST !

Topic: The Lightning Network FAQ - page 76. (Read 33287 times)