The Lightning Network FAQ - page 75.

Rath_

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 3131

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 06, 2019, 01:20:17 PM

Yeah, but i have my on-chain channel and i first need to send the coins to another LN address and just after that i can start to receive, in the case of making a node i can start to receive immediately or i need to send coins first too?

Once you fund the node's on-chain address and decide to open a channel, your coins will be automatically moved to a new multisig address controlled by you and the other party who accepted your proposal. After a few confirmations, the channel will become active and you should be able to send coins over the Lightning Network. You won't be able to receive payments unless you spend some coins or ask someone to open a channel to you.

cfbtcman

member

Activity: 264

Merit: 16

Quote from: Rath_ on August 06, 2019, 03:08:47 AM

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 08:24:55 PM

I see, so every node have standard limits to start or it depends the money owners put in?

No, there isn't a minimum amount of coins needed to start a node. You can run a Lightning Network node without any channels (no coins used) as long as you have available resources on your server. The Lightning Network node without any channels doesn't do anything at all. The node has its own on-chain address from which coins are taken when one wants to fund a channel. One can't open a big Lightning Network channel and split it later into smaller ones.

Yeah, but i have my on-chain channel and i first need to send the coins to another LN address and just after that i can start to receive, in the case of making a node i can start to receive immediately or i need to send coins first too?

Rath_

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 3131

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 08:24:55 PM

I see, so every node have standard limits to start or it depends the money owners put in?

No, there isn't a minimum amount of coins needed to start a node. You can run a Lightning Network node without any channels (no coins used) as long as you have available resources on your server. The Lightning Network node without any channels doesn't do anything at all. The node has its own on-chain address from which coins are taken when one wants to fund a channel. One can't open a big Lightning Network channel and split it later into smaller ones.

cfbtcman

member

Activity: 264

Merit: 16

Quote from: Rath_ on August 05, 2019, 03:43:51 PM

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 03:36:50 PM

Ok and how can that guys coinplaza or bitrefill have so much inbound, need to run a node?

They run their own Lightning Network nodes and open new channels to people who want to rent inbound capacity from them. For example, Bitrefill charges 0.00005700 BTC for a 0.005 BTC channel. That's how they profit from locking up their coins for some time. Note that they also need to have inbound capacity if they want to route payments properly.

I see, so every node have standard limits to start or it depends the money owners put in?

Rath_

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 3131

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 03:36:50 PM

Ok and how can that guys coinplaza or bitrefill have so much inbound, need to run a node?

They run their own Lightning Network nodes and open new channels to people who want to rent inbound capacity from them. For example, Bitrefill charges 0.00005700 BTC for a 0.005 BTC channel. That's how they profit from locking up their coins for some time. Note that they also need to have inbound capacity if they want to route payments properly.

cfbtcman

member

Activity: 264

Merit: 16

Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 05, 2019, 07:05:08 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on August 05, 2019, 05:51:26 AM

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 05:28:02 AM

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.

It's not contradicting:
1. Is running a node demanding? Yes.
2. Do I have to run a node? No.

Quote

I watch too that in future LN will have Dual funded channels (both parties will be able to fund a channel) thats why i cant receive money

An easy way to get inbound capacity is to exchange some of your Bitcoin Lightning balance for Bitcoin on-chain. I've used Coinplaza.it for this at 1% fee. For a small amount, the fee they charge can be lower than the Bitcoin network fee they use.

As an alternative, in Eclair Wallet you can request inbound liquidity when you open a channel. That means the node will open and fund a channel back to you. I think they charge 1% for this (for 30 days), but the minimum amount is much higher than what you can exchange through Coinplaza.

You can also try Bitrefill for inbound capacity, https://www.bitrefill.com/

You can also purchase it with Dash, Dogrcoin, Litecoin, and Ethereum. Hahaha.

Ok and how can that guys coinplaza or bitrefill have so much inbound, need to run a node?

Wind_FURY

legendary

Activity: 2884

Merit: 1810

Quote from: LoyceV on August 05, 2019, 05:51:26 AM

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 05:28:02 AM

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.

It's not contradicting:
1. Is running a node demanding? Yes.
2. Do I have to run a node? No.

Quote

I watch too that in future LN will have Dual funded channels (both parties will be able to fund a channel) thats why i cant receive money

An easy way to get inbound capacity is to exchange some of your Bitcoin Lightning balance for Bitcoin on-chain. I've used Coinplaza.it for this at 1% fee. For a small amount, the fee they charge can be lower than the Bitcoin network fee they use.

As an alternative, in Eclair Wallet you can request inbound liquidity when you open a channel. That means the node will open and fund a channel back to you. I think they charge 1% for this (for 30 days), but the minimum amount is much higher than what you can exchange through Coinplaza.

You can also try Bitrefill for inbound capacity, https://www.bitrefill.com/

You can also purchase it with Dash, Dogrcoin, Litecoin, and Ethereum. Hahaha.

Rath_

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 3131

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 05:28:02 AM

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.

Thanks for drawing my attention to these questions. I will rephrase the answers in a moment. LND is the only implementation that supports neutrino, so you have to run a full node on the others.

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 05:28:02 AM

i thought all the channels was dual funded, that way i can run a node without putting any money IN and dont risk to loose money, is that right?

As long as you don't have any coins on your side, yes. However, you won't be able to send transactions over the Lightning Network in such a case.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 05:28:02 AM

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.

It's not contradicting:
1. Is running a node demanding? Yes.
2. Do I have to run a node? No.

Quote

I watch too that in future LN will have Dual funded channels (both parties will be able to fund a channel) thats why i cant receive money

An easy way to get inbound capacity is to exchange some of your Bitcoin Lightning balance for Bitcoin on-chain. I've used Coinplaza.it for this at 1% fee. For a small amount, the fee they charge can be lower than the Bitcoin network fee they use.

As an alternative, in Eclair Wallet you can request inbound liquidity when you open a channel. That means the node will open and fund a channel back to you. I think they charge 1% for this (for 30 days), but the minimum amount is much higher than what you can exchange through Coinplaza.

cfbtcman

member

Activity: 264

Merit: 16

Quote from: Rath_ on June 26, 2019, 05:06:04 PM

Is running a Lightning Network node demanding?

You have to run a Bitcoin full node which uses the biggest part of available resources.

Do I have to run a full Bitcoin node?

No. LND supports neutrino which allows user to run a light node instead of a full one. It is a good solution for devices with low processing power and storage (Raspberry Pi).

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.
I watch too that in future LN will have Dual funded channels (both parties will be able to fund a channel) thats why i cant receive money, i thought all the channels was dual funded, that way i can run a node without putting any money IN and dont risk to loose money, is that right?

Rath_

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 3131

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 02:08:27 AM

I installed Eclair Mobile and to receive LN it says i cant stay 2 weeks without connecting the phone to internet, what happens if i stay more than 2 weeks disconnected, i can lost LN funds?

If the other party forcefully closes the channel with an old state while you are offline, the closing transaction will be able to be confirmed after 2 weeks. You have 2 weeks to come back online. If you manage to do it, Eclair Mobile will publish a penalty transaction for you. Note that it will only happen if the other party has a malicious intent. I have never experienced it despite having many opened channels.

However, if you were to close the channel, you would have to wait only 720 blocks (~5 days). These are the default values negotiated by Eclair Mobile before the channel is funded.

cfbtcman

member

Activity: 264

Merit: 16

Quote from: Rath_ on July 31, 2019, 01:19:32 PM

TL;DR Eclair Mobile is the best choice for now if you don't want to use a custodial wallet.

I installed Eclair Mobile and to receive LN it says i cant stay 2 weeks without connecting the phone to internet, what happens if i stay more than 2 weeks disconnected, i can lost LN funds?

Carlton Banks

legendary

Activity: 3430

Merit: 3071

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 04, 2019, 08:04:29 PM

Im showing pratical cases about LN

you're doing nothing of the sort, hush

cfbtcman

member

Activity: 264

Merit: 16

Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 02, 2019, 09:20:34 AM

@cfbtcman

please stop posting, you're talking total nonsense

this subforum is for cogent questions on and disseminating the technical aspects of Bitcoin, you are clearly incapable of making a useful contribution

Im showing pratical cases about LN, it seems in this wallet we can only receive after we give, if id like to receive without giving what can i do?
Imagine i want to open a comercial website selling 1 product by $1, i will sell 1 million products in one month, so 1 million dolares, how can i receive it by LN without need to put first 1 millions of dolars IN ?

If you know other wallet that permit that in LN please teach, because its seems we cant do it in Lighting Labs wallet, the other wallets permit that?

P.S.- If you are PRO it seems you are not doing nothing usefull too:

BTC 10 years existence = +- 450.000 transactions/day limit
BCH 2 years existence = 8.3 millions ?
BSV 1 year existence = 16 millions ?

What are you doing there?

Csmiami

copper member

Activity: 1582

Merit: 1319

I'm sometimes known as "miniadmin"

Hey there! Sorry it took me so long to reply, but I was away on vacation only to get back home and discover that my ISP had changed....

Getting back on topic:

Quote from: Rath_ on July 20, 2019, 05:05:51 PM

Quote from: Csmiami on July 18, 2019, 11:43:26 AM

Apart from that, I seem to not be finding any other channels (All channels tab is with a big 0).

Have you tried disabling Windows Firewall and Windows Defender (or any other AV software)? If this doesn't work then there is something wrong with your router settings. How many connections does your Bitcoin Core have?

Windows Firewall and Microsoft Defender Wink

, had both whitelisted the app and I launched the program as an admin. I don't think there is an issue with that.

Core has around 70 connections when lauched normally; but when I create the config file, it goes down hard and is rather slow; honestly, I think it has the same behaviour as when I have not oppened the ports on the router

Quote from: Rath_ on July 20, 2019, 05:05:51 PM

Quote from: Csmiami on July 18, 2019, 11:43:26 AM

The only "issue" I have noticed between some youtube tutorials I've seen; is that when creating the bitcoin.conf file on core and restarting; I didn't get any "You need to rebuild the database....) message

It seems that you have already set the txindex to 1. Instead of setting it in the config file, try adding it as a launch parameter.

I believe that goes beyond my technical knowledge.... Cry

Carlton Banks

legendary

Activity: 3430

Merit: 3071

@cfbtcman

please stop posting, you're talking total nonsense

this subforum is for cogent questions on and disseminating the technical aspects of Bitcoin, you are clearly incapable of making a useful contribution

cfbtcman

member

Activity: 264

Merit: 16

This makes no sense, if i open a channel and i put 10$ someone needs to put 10$ too, in this case the guys from node and they will receive LN commissions of payments that i send and receive, seems pretty fair.

If i put $10 i should can receive at least other $10 (less fees), if someone send me $10 i should can close the channel and receive $20 on-chain (less fees of LN all the nodes that passed and fees on-chain)!

we need to put always much more to receive much less? Its crazy, its a bubble !

Imagine now i open one channel in the same node as you and i want to send you my 3,74€, i cant because you can only receive $0.02?

WTF?

You are saying that if we dont cash out anymore, we will receive the money back in our BTC address or in the BTC address where we put money IN that belongs to them?

If you note they have one option called "AUTOPILOT" that opens channels automatically, so if one channel closes they will open a new one immediatly and you will be always loosing fees to open and close channels, i put $10 and now just have 3,74€ and never did any transaction IN or OUT !

Send me please $0.01 REQUEST !

Rath_

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 3131

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 10:02:14 PM

Overcharged its a good point, than you tried to take money back ON-CHAIN?

No, I was waiting for more of your questions. It turned out that the recommended transaction fee spiked to about 25 sat/byte a moment before I opened a channel. I paid 32 sat/byte fee so not that bad, but I am disappointed that I was not able to set it myself.

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 10:02:14 PM

Can you print a picture of your channel about:

CAPACITY (mine 3,74€)
CAN SEND (mine 2,57€)
CAN RECEIVE (mine 0€)

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 10:02:14 PM

Its not supposed to can send and receive the total capacity?
They say its not, so, you imagine one service you put 50€, but you can only send 30€ and can only receive 10€ ?

No, that's not how Lightning Network works. Take a look at 'Receiving Lightning funds' on this website. You can't send all of your funds because of the channel reserve which acts as an insurance if one party attempts to cheat.

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 10:02:14 PM

Can you send me your request of 1 Satoshi or your "CAN RECEIVE" its zero too?

As you can see on the image, it's not zero because I have sent a few Lightning Network payments. However, mobile wallets are not online all the time. This means that they can't receive payments without the app being opened.

cfbtcman

member

Activity: 264

Merit: 16

Quote from: Rath_ on July 31, 2019, 01:19:32 PM

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 04:35:46 AM

Can you please install this APP: https://blog.lightning.engineering/announcement/2019/06/19/mobile-app.html

Put $10 and try it with me doing some transactions to each other?

I managed to open a channel and send a few transactions over the Lightning Network without any major problems. However, I would not recommend this wallet to anyone in its current state. I could not set the channel opening fee and I was a bit overcharged. The same thing will happen once I decide to close that channel. I was not able to paste a payment request; I had to scan a QR code manually. There are no backups. If your phone breaks then you will have to rely on the other party to recover your coins. If you set the Bitcoin unit to Bitcoin instead of satoshi then the balance does not fit the screen unless you switch to fiat view. Also, entering the PIN is a bit inconvenient. The PIN pad should be moved up a little.

TL;DR Eclair Mobile is the best choice for now if you don't want to use a custodial wallet.

This is Lightning Labs APP, suposed to be the best guys in LN, Elizabeth Starks enterprise!
Overcharged its a good point, than you tried to take money back ON-CHAIN?

Can you print a picture of your channel about:

CAPACITY (mine 3,74€)
CAN SEND (mine 2,57€)
CAN RECEIVE (mine 0€)
?

Its not supposed to can send and receive the total capacity?
They say its not, so, you imagine one service you put 50€, but you can only send 30€ and can only receive 10€ ?

Is better to use real money Grin

Can you send me your request of 1 Satoshi or your "CAN RECEIVE" its zero too?

Rath_

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 3131

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 04:35:46 AM

Can you please install this APP: https://blog.lightning.engineering/announcement/2019/06/19/mobile-app.html

Put $10 and try it with me doing some transactions to each other?

I managed to open a channel and send a few transactions over the Lightning Network without any major problems. However, I would not recommend this wallet to anyone in its current state. I could not set the channel opening fee and I was a bit overcharged. The same thing will happen once I decide to close that channel. I was not able to paste a payment request; I had to scan a QR code manually. There are no backups. If your phone breaks then you will have to rely on the other party to recover your coins. If you set the Bitcoin unit to Bitcoin instead of satoshi then the balance does not fit the screen unless you switch to fiat view. Also, entering the PIN is a bit inconvenient. The PIN pad should be moved up a little.

TL;DR Eclair Mobile is the best choice for now if you don't want to use a custodial wallet.

Topic: The Lightning Network FAQ - page 75. (Read 32044 times)