The Lightning Network FAQ - page 77.

Rath_

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Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 02:36:50 PM

Ok and how can that guys coinplaza or bitrefill have so much inbound, need to run a node?

They run their own Lightning Network nodes and open new channels to people who want to rent inbound capacity from them. For example, Bitrefill charges 0.00005700 BTC for a 0.005 BTC channel. That's how they profit from locking up their coins for some time. Note that they also need to have inbound capacity if they want to route payments properly.

cfbtcman

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 05, 2019, 06:05:08 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on August 05, 2019, 04:51:26 AM

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 04:28:02 AM

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.

It's not contradicting:
1. Is running a node demanding? Yes.
2. Do I have to run a node? No.

Quote

I watch too that in future LN will have Dual funded channels (both parties will be able to fund a channel) thats why i cant receive money

An easy way to get inbound capacity is to exchange some of your Bitcoin Lightning balance for Bitcoin on-chain. I've used Coinplaza.it for this at 1% fee. For a small amount, the fee they charge can be lower than the Bitcoin network fee they use.

As an alternative, in Eclair Wallet you can request inbound liquidity when you open a channel. That means the node will open and fund a channel back to you. I think they charge 1% for this (for 30 days), but the minimum amount is much higher than what you can exchange through Coinplaza.

You can also try Bitrefill for inbound capacity, https://www.bitrefill.com/

You can also purchase it with Dash, Dogrcoin, Litecoin, and Ethereum. Hahaha.

Ok and how can that guys coinplaza or bitrefill have so much inbound, need to run a node?

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: LoyceV on August 05, 2019, 04:51:26 AM

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 04:28:02 AM

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.

It's not contradicting:
1. Is running a node demanding? Yes.
2. Do I have to run a node? No.

Quote

I watch too that in future LN will have Dual funded channels (both parties will be able to fund a channel) thats why i cant receive money

An easy way to get inbound capacity is to exchange some of your Bitcoin Lightning balance for Bitcoin on-chain. I've used Coinplaza.it for this at 1% fee. For a small amount, the fee they charge can be lower than the Bitcoin network fee they use.

As an alternative, in Eclair Wallet you can request inbound liquidity when you open a channel. That means the node will open and fund a channel back to you. I think they charge 1% for this (for 30 days), but the minimum amount is much higher than what you can exchange through Coinplaza.

You can also try Bitrefill for inbound capacity, https://www.bitrefill.com/

You can also purchase it with Dash, Dogrcoin, Litecoin, and Ethereum. Hahaha.

Rath_

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Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 04:28:02 AM

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.

Thanks for drawing my attention to these questions. I will rephrase the answers in a moment. LND is the only implementation that supports neutrino, so you have to run a full node on the others.

Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 04:28:02 AM

i thought all the channels was dual funded, that way i can run a node without putting any money IN and dont risk to loose money, is that right?

As long as you don't have any coins on your side, yes. However, you won't be able to send transactions over the Lightning Network in such a case.

LoyceV

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Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 04:28:02 AM

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.

It's not contradicting:
1. Is running a node demanding? Yes.
2. Do I have to run a node? No.

Quote

I watch too that in future LN will have Dual funded channels (both parties will be able to fund a channel) thats why i cant receive money

An easy way to get inbound capacity is to exchange some of your Bitcoin Lightning balance for Bitcoin on-chain. I've used Coinplaza.it for this at 1% fee. For a small amount, the fee they charge can be lower than the Bitcoin network fee they use.

As an alternative, in Eclair Wallet you can request inbound liquidity when you open a channel. That means the node will open and fund a channel back to you. I think they charge 1% for this (for 30 days), but the minimum amount is much higher than what you can exchange through Coinplaza.

cfbtcman

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Quote from: Rath_ on June 26, 2019, 04:06:04 PM

Is running a Lightning Network node demanding?

You have to run a Bitcoin full node which uses the biggest part of available resources.

Do I have to run a full Bitcoin node?

No. LND supports neutrino which allows user to run a light node instead of a full one. It is a good solution for devices with low processing power and storage (Raspberry Pi).

Hi, i was reading your FAQ and i see that two contradictory sentences, please review that.
I watch too that in future LN will have Dual funded channels (both parties will be able to fund a channel) thats why i cant receive money, i thought all the channels was dual funded, that way i can run a node without putting any money IN and dont risk to loose money, is that right?

Rath_

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Quote from: cfbtcman on August 05, 2019, 01:08:27 AM

I installed Eclair Mobile and to receive LN it says i cant stay 2 weeks without connecting the phone to internet, what happens if i stay more than 2 weeks disconnected, i can lost LN funds?

If the other party forcefully closes the channel with an old state while you are offline, the closing transaction will be able to be confirmed after 2 weeks. You have 2 weeks to come back online. If you manage to do it, Eclair Mobile will publish a penalty transaction for you. Note that it will only happen if the other party has a malicious intent. I have never experienced it despite having many opened channels.

However, if you were to close the channel, you would have to wait only 720 blocks (~5 days). These are the default values negotiated by Eclair Mobile before the channel is funded.

cfbtcman

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Quote from: Rath_ on July 31, 2019, 12:19:32 PM

TL;DR Eclair Mobile is the best choice for now if you don't want to use a custodial wallet.

I installed Eclair Mobile and to receive LN it says i cant stay 2 weeks without connecting the phone to internet, what happens if i stay more than 2 weeks disconnected, i can lost LN funds?

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: cfbtcman on August 04, 2019, 07:04:29 PM

Im showing pratical cases about LN

you're doing nothing of the sort, hush

cfbtcman

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 02, 2019, 08:20:34 AM

@cfbtcman

please stop posting, you're talking total nonsense

this subforum is for cogent questions on and disseminating the technical aspects of Bitcoin, you are clearly incapable of making a useful contribution

Im showing pratical cases about LN, it seems in this wallet we can only receive after we give, if id like to receive without giving what can i do?
Imagine i want to open a comercial website selling 1 product by $1, i will sell 1 million products in one month, so 1 million dolares, how can i receive it by LN without need to put first 1 millions of dolars IN ?

If you know other wallet that permit that in LN please teach, because its seems we cant do it in Lighting Labs wallet, the other wallets permit that?

P.S.- If you are PRO it seems you are not doing nothing usefull too:

BTC 10 years existence = +- 450.000 transactions/day limit
BCH 2 years existence = 8.3 millions ?
BSV 1 year existence = 16 millions ?

What are you doing there?

Csmiami

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I'm sometimes known as "miniadmin"

Hey there! Sorry it took me so long to reply, but I was away on vacation only to get back home and discover that my ISP had changed....

Getting back on topic:

Quote from: Rath_ on July 20, 2019, 04:05:51 PM

Quote from: Csmiami on July 18, 2019, 10:43:26 AM

Apart from that, I seem to not be finding any other channels (All channels tab is with a big 0).

Have you tried disabling Windows Firewall and Windows Defender (or any other AV software)? If this doesn't work then there is something wrong with your router settings. How many connections does your Bitcoin Core have?

Windows Firewall and Microsoft Defender Wink

, had both whitelisted the app and I launched the program as an admin. I don't think there is an issue with that.

Core has around 70 connections when lauched normally; but when I create the config file, it goes down hard and is rather slow; honestly, I think it has the same behaviour as when I have not oppened the ports on the router

Quote from: Rath_ on July 20, 2019, 04:05:51 PM

Quote from: Csmiami on July 18, 2019, 10:43:26 AM

The only "issue" I have noticed between some youtube tutorials I've seen; is that when creating the bitcoin.conf file on core and restarting; I didn't get any "You need to rebuild the database....) message

It seems that you have already set the txindex to 1. Instead of setting it in the config file, try adding it as a launch parameter.

I believe that goes beyond my technical knowledge.... Cry

Carlton Banks

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@cfbtcman

please stop posting, you're talking total nonsense

this subforum is for cogent questions on and disseminating the technical aspects of Bitcoin, you are clearly incapable of making a useful contribution

cfbtcman

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This makes no sense, if i open a channel and i put 10$ someone needs to put 10$ too, in this case the guys from node and they will receive LN commissions of payments that i send and receive, seems pretty fair.

If i put $10 i should can receive at least other $10 (less fees), if someone send me $10 i should can close the channel and receive $20 on-chain (less fees of LN all the nodes that passed and fees on-chain)!

we need to put always much more to receive much less? Its crazy, its a bubble !

Imagine now i open one channel in the same node as you and i want to send you my 3,74€, i cant because you can only receive $0.02?

WTF?

You are saying that if we dont cash out anymore, we will receive the money back in our BTC address or in the BTC address where we put money IN that belongs to them?

If you note they have one option called "AUTOPILOT" that opens channels automatically, so if one channel closes they will open a new one immediatly and you will be always loosing fees to open and close channels, i put $10 and now just have 3,74€ and never did any transaction IN or OUT !

Send me please $0.01 REQUEST !

Rath_

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Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 09:02:14 PM

Overcharged its a good point, than you tried to take money back ON-CHAIN?

No, I was waiting for more of your questions. It turned out that the recommended transaction fee spiked to about 25 sat/byte a moment before I opened a channel. I paid 32 sat/byte fee so not that bad, but I am disappointed that I was not able to set it myself.

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 09:02:14 PM

Can you print a picture of your channel about:

CAPACITY (mine 3,74€)
CAN SEND (mine 2,57€)
CAN RECEIVE (mine 0€)

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 09:02:14 PM

Its not supposed to can send and receive the total capacity?
They say its not, so, you imagine one service you put 50€, but you can only send 30€ and can only receive 10€ ?

No, that's not how Lightning Network works. Take a look at 'Receiving Lightning funds' on this website. You can't send all of your funds because of the channel reserve which acts as an insurance if one party attempts to cheat.

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 09:02:14 PM

Can you send me your request of 1 Satoshi or your "CAN RECEIVE" its zero too?

As you can see on the image, it's not zero because I have sent a few Lightning Network payments. However, mobile wallets are not online all the time. This means that they can't receive payments without the app being opened.

cfbtcman

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Quote from: Rath_ on July 31, 2019, 12:19:32 PM

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 03:35:46 AM

Can you please install this APP: https://blog.lightning.engineering/announcement/2019/06/19/mobile-app.html

Put $10 and try it with me doing some transactions to each other?

I managed to open a channel and send a few transactions over the Lightning Network without any major problems. However, I would not recommend this wallet to anyone in its current state. I could not set the channel opening fee and I was a bit overcharged. The same thing will happen once I decide to close that channel. I was not able to paste a payment request; I had to scan a QR code manually. There are no backups. If your phone breaks then you will have to rely on the other party to recover your coins. If you set the Bitcoin unit to Bitcoin instead of satoshi then the balance does not fit the screen unless you switch to fiat view. Also, entering the PIN is a bit inconvenient. The PIN pad should be moved up a little.

TL;DR Eclair Mobile is the best choice for now if you don't want to use a custodial wallet.

This is Lightning Labs APP, suposed to be the best guys in LN, Elizabeth Starks enterprise!
Overcharged its a good point, than you tried to take money back ON-CHAIN?

Can you print a picture of your channel about:

CAPACITY (mine 3,74€)
CAN SEND (mine 2,57€)
CAN RECEIVE (mine 0€)
?

Its not supposed to can send and receive the total capacity?
They say its not, so, you imagine one service you put 50€, but you can only send 30€ and can only receive 10€ ?

Is better to use real money Grin

Can you send me your request of 1 Satoshi or your "CAN RECEIVE" its zero too?

Rath_

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Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 03:35:46 AM

Can you please install this APP: https://blog.lightning.engineering/announcement/2019/06/19/mobile-app.html

Put $10 and try it with me doing some transactions to each other?

I managed to open a channel and send a few transactions over the Lightning Network without any major problems. However, I would not recommend this wallet to anyone in its current state. I could not set the channel opening fee and I was a bit overcharged. The same thing will happen once I decide to close that channel. I was not able to paste a payment request; I had to scan a QR code manually. There are no backups. If your phone breaks then you will have to rely on the other party to recover your coins. If you set the Bitcoin unit to Bitcoin instead of satoshi then the balance does not fit the screen unless you switch to fiat view. Also, entering the PIN is a bit inconvenient. The PIN pad should be moved up a little.

TL;DR Eclair Mobile is the best choice for now if you don't want to use a custodial wallet.

ABCbits

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Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 03:38:25 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

LN is still on development phase, so i think you experience software bug or you did something wrong. Which Lightning Labs did you use?

https://blog.lightning.engineering/announcement/2019/06/19/mobile-app.html

Can you install and put $10 in and then lets try it?

Since i know the fact all software related to LN is still on development phase & i had hard time when try LN on testnet, i won't.
I might try it if someone can confirm the software support Tor/SOCKS5 proxy though.

Quote from: Carlton Banks on July 31, 2019, 07:46:39 AM

either 1MB (you're wrong, it's 4MB)

Technically it's 4 million weight unit, not 4MB (even though near 4MB with very specific transaction format) or 1MB (even though old client see it as 1MB)

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 04:24:57 AM

It stopped growing, look bitcoin transaction number history, we are in 2019 and we dont make as much transactions as in 2017, we are stucked by 2 years, transactions = to price grows = Metcalf Law

ok, that's not really true, but let's assume it is.....

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 04:24:57 AM

1 MB its to little block size for the world, we need to upgrade sooner or later, if it was sooner bitcoin would be doing more transactions than in 2017 and the price would be bigger too.

Bill Gates said one time 640kb of memory should be fine for everybody, today he says was the worst affirmation of his life, the same are doing the guys of bitcoin core if they think 1MB will be sufficient too.

so, make up your mind

either 1MB (you're wrong, it's 4MB) is not enough, or Bitcoin has fewer transactions and spare capacity.

whatever, Lightning still isn't mature in tech terms or in liquidity. On-chain scaling tech (taproot, schnorr etc) is still in the pipeline. Rushing these things risks disasters, and then the network effect in Bitcoin really could be damaged. Hence why I'm talking upthread about how LND should focus on quality rather than quantity.

Please don't reply, we're already off-topic, and you're already wrong in so many ways.

cfbtcman

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 31, 2019, 03:49:07 AM

Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 03:33:01 AM

One on-chain transaction in 9 years after 3 halvings will make each on-chain transaction pays one incredible fee, so LN will not solve the problem of on-chain high fees, can even create a bigger problem in future!

I believe that's the same narrative some used-to-be-great people in Bitcoin said back in 2015 or 2016. They FUD that Bitcoin's "blockchain of small blocks" will be so unusable, mempool so large, waiting times so long, fees so high, that it will be dead in four years. It didn't happen.

Call it off-loading, but LN will reduce load on-chain, and increase utility.

It stopped growing, look bitcoin transaction number history, we are in 2019 and we dont make as much transactions as in 2017, we are stucked by 2 years, transactions = to price grows = Metcalf Law, other coins are beeing used much more and growing like USDT:

https://www.coindesk.com/tether-usdt-russia-china-importers

1 MB its to little block size for the world, we need to upgrade sooner or later, if it was sooner bitcoin would be doing more transactions than in 2017 and the price would be bigger too.

Bill Gates said one time 640kb of memory should be fine for everybody, today he says was the worst affirmation of his life, the same are doing the guys of bitcoin core if they think 1MB will be sufficient too.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: cfbtcman on July 31, 2019, 03:33:01 AM

One on-chain transaction in 9 years after 3 halvings will make each on-chain transaction pays one incredible fee, so LN will not solve the problem of on-chain high fees, can even create a bigger problem in future!

I believe that's the same narrative some used-to-be-great people in Bitcoin said back in 2015 or 2016. They FUD that Bitcoin's "blockchain of small blocks" will be so unusable, mempool so large, waiting times so long, fees so high, that it will be dead in four years. It didn't happen.

Call it off-loading, but LN will reduce load on-chain, and increase utility.

Topic: The Lightning Network FAQ - page 77. (Read 33805 times)