Topic: The Rock Trading Scam www.therocktrading.com Exchange Review fraud opinion - page 44. (Read 36264 times)

I think the reason most people haven't posted in this thread is because they see you throwing your toys while there is a simple solution.

Give them the identification they are requesting and you get the crypto.


I can only see two reasons that you would not give them ID

1) You don't want to (Maybe because it is illicit earnings or tax dodging)

2) You can't (It either isn't your account , you gave a fake identity in the first place or live in a country that  is excluded by their TOS)

It doesn't make them a scammer.

They are claiming that they froze all my withdrawals 8 months ago in order to protect my funds. So, they think someone hacked my account 8 months ago.

And the hacker was so generous that even made a deposit a few months later. And for months didn't even try to make any withdrawal.

And they were so concerned that they didn't even care to warn me.

They think that everyone reading this is completely stupid to believe in these ridiculous inventions.

Clearly, they don't care for their own reputation. Because they only keep digging its grave deeper.

Anyway, thanks for your time r34tr783tr78.

No, it is not funny...

No reasons? Prtecting funds of the account owner is a very important reason for us. As a matter of fact it is the most important.... 

You think this is funny? That you can do what you want with the accounts of the people whose money you hold without having to explain your acts? You have another opportunity to show your reasons to block the OP withdrawals without saying anything to him and start asking for his papers when he complained. If you keep refusing to answer you can count with some feedback from me. Only scammers block accounts with no reason.

It's almost time to post this on the italian scam board:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=162.0

Their italian customers (70% of all their customers) must know what they are capable of doing to customers, especially high balance customers.

yes, I agree with you. It is quite suspicious you do not want to provide us information requested in consideration of the amount involved......

will see.

You keep refusing to answer why you blocked the OP account and started asking for his papers on the first place. This is very suspicious when there is so much money involved.

I have no doubts that you are doing all of this in the hope of keeping my money.

But you are playing safe and preparing yourselves to be forced to give my money back when I go to the police.

So, you haven't yet engage on obvious lies and ridiculous accusations who would make you even more suspicious.

If I sent you my documents, you would keep inventing pretexts to hold my money and will ask for more documents or whatever.

Because you are betting I won't go to the police.

But you are very wrong: you are crazy if you think that with the legal assistance I have I'm going to give up on 35500 euros.

This just means you are fighting a lost war: you are going to lose on your reputation, on my money and will have to answer for what you are doing in a criminal court.

Do you think the Italian policy will believe you blocked covertly my crypto withdrawals and are doing all of this just to get 2 jpgs from me?

Holdings on the account belongs to the owner of the account and not to us.

Provide your information to us or, if you don't trust us to the police and I'll be more than happy to release the funds and close this issue.

Thank you

He can't answer, because nothing changed on my activity or account during the last 5 years, except one thing: the balance got bigger thanks to the raise of bitcoin.

He can't confess that the issue that made them block my withdrawals was trying to take my money.

He had the nerve to suggest that I might be a hacker... somehow, a hacker hacked my brain, stole my memories and was able to quote detailed conversations I had with his co-founder Paci 6 years ago on Second Life like I did on several emails I sent them! Ridiculous.

One of the facts that point out for their goal being just steal my money is that they talk about doubts about my ownership but don't care for decisive evidence I have, like being the owner of the banking account used to receive 4 small withdrawals I made in 2013.

Insisting on my documents is just a pretext to keep my 35500 euros.

 

You are arguing your TOS allows you to wake up in the morning in bad mood and block a customer account because of that and I dont really care unless you start doing that!
You didnt reject any part of the OP history but you had three opportunities to give reasons why you blocked the OP account without saying nothing to him for months and why you demanded his verification against what you websites says but you refused to do that. If you arent a scammer it looks like you are acting like one. I guess your security reasons will force you to keep the OPs money also.

Sorry,

we cannot compromise security issues.

Being the oldest exchange still in existance means we do keep security as our top priority

In order to release your funds we must verify your identity for your protection (and everybody else)

Thank you

Your quote of the note on the FAQ at https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64 is very misleading.

And I already debunked with the help of my lawyer that note as ground to demand verification or documents:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.44894787

The full note says:
"Nota:

    per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status
    without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly
    please read our AML policy"

The note say you can require additional information or documents. So, it applies to verified customers that already sent information/documents, not to unverified. It intends to apply to situations of expired or fake documents.

That is completely confirmed by the consequence of not complying with your request for additional documents: "without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly".

A consequence that only applies to customers that can do fiat withdrawals: verified customers. The note doesn't say you can block unverified accounts.

And it couldn't ever say that without nullifying completely your FAQ clear statement: "Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it."

You can say whatever you want: your TOS and FAQ don't allow you to demand verification from unverified costumers freely.

At the very least you have to have a pretty good justification. You failed to even address the question of why you did everything you did.

Don't invoke your TOS chapter 8.3 and 8.4: it applies only to situations of suspicions of money laundering as its titles makes clear: 8. AML REQUIREMENTS. You never accused me of that.

Are you going to try to accuse me of that now? How convenient... I haven't made a fiat withdrawal in 5 years, how could I do any money laundering without moving money to the banking system?

Moreover, my last crypto withdrawal was more than 1 year ago. Accusing me of money laundering would just be a bogus accusation which would kill the very last credibility you might still have.

What was the "anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account"? (8.3).

And 8.4 applies to "Users who have not been properly verified". Not unverified users, but users who have not complete properly the verification process. Who sent fake documents or are suspects of money laundering. So, 8.4 talks about "completion of the due verification process". Completion not beginning of the verification process.

And the verification must be "due". It isn't due to unverified customers as your FAQ makes clear: Verification isn't mandatory. Since unverified customers can´t do fiat withdrawals they can't launder money. They enter with crypto and they leave with crypto, so they launder nothing.



But what is striking from your post is that you deliberately avoided answer very important questions:

I) Why all my means of withdraw were blocked months ago, at least on January/February 2018?

II) Why didn't you inform me of this block and let me keep making deposits and paying fees unaware of the situation for months?

III) Why when I complained you started demanding my personal documents while keeping my withdrawals blocked?

IV) What is the reason to doubt I'm the legitimate owner of my account, since I gave evidence he won't be able to obtain from any other customer?

V) Why they don't show any interest on the other evidence I can provide: like confirming my identity on Second Life, using two different accounts they know are mine; and sending them a scan of my banking account used to receive the euro withdrawals I made 5 years ago?

VI) Why they gave up on demanding my documents and only started again when I told them I would make this post if they didn't let me withdraw 2 bitcoins?

Again, we cannot lower our security standards.

If we do have a suspect that you are not the account owner, we must verify your identity for your protection.

Historically, in similar cases, the real owner is quite happy about security procedures implemented for his/her protection. 

On the countrary, hackers dislike it and make it vocal in order to try to put pressure.....

As far as our TOS/FAQ, please read:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

"per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status"

and

TOS https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3

Chapter 8

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

I'm positive, that you are the real owner of the account and be happy to comply with our requests!

Thank you

The Rock CFO just confirmed all the facts and quotes I wrote about on the OP.

But what he doesn't say is even more revealing.

He didn't even try to explain:

I) Why he blocked all my withdrawals months ago, at least January/February 2018?

II) Why he didn't inform me of this block and let me keep making deposits and paying fees unaware of the situation for months?

III) What is the justification on their TOS for this act?

IV) Why when I complained he started demanding my personal documents while keeping my withdrawals blocked?

V) What is the justification on their TOS for this act?

VI) What is the reason to doubt I'm the legitimate owner of my account, since I gave him evidence he won't be able to obtain from any other customer?

VII) Why they don't show any interest on the other evidence I can provide: like confirming my identity on Second Life, using two different accounts they know are mine; and sending them a scan of my banking account used to receive the euro withdrawals I made 5 years ago?

VIII) Why they gave up on demanding my documents and only started again when I told them I would make this post if they didn't let me withdraw 2 bitcoins?

They can't claim my resistance to comply with their abusive act of demanding my documents against their FAQ/TOS as cause for doubt my ownership.

They knew from the start I wouldn't send them my documents. It's because of this that they are asking for them.

On a support message to him, on 9 October 2013, I told him that MtGox had blackmail me to send my documents and something like this “ends all trust on an institution”.

CFO Eliale answered “As far as Gox there isn’t much to add…”  which shows a disagreement about what he is now doing.

I even started this thread here some years ago about exchanges that don't ask for verification:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/exchanges-that-dont-require-verification-to-trade-cryptocoins-and-fiat-689902

If I didn't resist to send my documents that would be cause for suspicion.

But I know that if I send them my documents, they will pick another pretext to try to keep my money, because this isn't about my identity, but about my money.

If I had 1000 euros there, this wouldn't be happening.

Since I mentioned the police first, he had to indicate the police option,  in order for him to try to give an honest impression.

But they are betting I won't go to the Police and that the police will only demand them to return the money without any other consequence for them.

They are wrong: I'll go to the police and they are responsible for fraud for blocking my withdrawals but keeping me unaware of the situation in order to keep me trading and making deposits.

And they are responsible for embezzlement attempt, since they covertly blocked all my withdrawals and are saying they will keep my money for good if I don't send them my documents.

Sorry, while I can understand your point of view, in order to protect your interests and everybody else safety, we do need to verify your real identity before releasing your funds which are available.

Refusing to do so, it only raise our concerns about the real ownership of the account.

So, please, comply with the requests in order to solve the issue.

As an alternative, if you do not want to provide requested information to us, you may contact the Italian police and file a request.  They will request us to proceed and we will be ok because we do have the guarantee they checked your Identity which, obviously will be forwarded to us....  It only takes longer but it is your choice.

Thank you

Andrea Medri
TRT CFO

You are taking conclusions from a note on the FAQ that are completely contrary to the clear statement also on their FAQ:

"Verification is not mandatory"
You are saying they can make it mandatory at will, without any justification and that is clearly contrary to this explicit statement on their FAQ.

If this was the case, again, point 8.3 of their TOS on AML would be irrelevant: they could demand documents for whatever reason, including with scamming purposes, as a simple pretext to keep the money. They wouldn't have to wait for any suspicious transaction.

The quoted note only establishes as consequence for not sending documents demanded on its terms: "without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly". And this clearly doesn't apply to unverified customers since they can't do fiat withdrawals.

Moreover this note don't give them power to block bitcoin withdrawals, but just to delay fiat withdrawals. Or at most block fiat withdrawals from Level 2 and Level 3 customers.

Anyway for someone who was arguing that FAQ were irrelevant, you certainly are giving a lot of weight to a note on their FAQ that has no basis on their TOS.

You are suggesting their TOS is illegal and that they operate outside of the Law, without quoting specific italian law.

If you only can deposit crypto and withdraw crypto you launder nothing. Had crypto, ended up with crypto.

The main points are still the same: they can't be trustworthy, because they don't respect their personal assurances, their FAQ and TOS.

Any Rock customer can end up with all their ways to withdraw their money blocked for months without any information from them and be blackmailed to give any and all documents against FAQ/TOS and personal promises or see their money blocked for a indefinable time.

Nota:
per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status

Despite the status means : levels 1, 2 and 3 and anything else.


If you have funds on a centralised exchange then you have to expect that KYC and AML will eventually be required.

It is the law in almost every country in the world.

When something is a legal requirement it doesn't even matter what the TOS states. If they don't follow the law they get shut down.

If you are trading on a centralised exchange that is not doing it yet - expect it. They will either comply with AML or end up shut down like BTC-e.


Statements by founders are always difficult. He was expressing his opinion at the time based on how things were then. Things change.

Legitimate (legal)  exchanges have to follow the law. There is far more oversight now than there was a year ago. Almost every country has toughened their AML laws.

Disclosure: I've never traded on that exchange and don't know anyone involved there.

This is the link I posted:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27

It gives me this text:


1. How can I verify my account?
Last Updated 9 months ago

    What you need:
        An identity document, with at least 6 months validity. Out of SEPA countries, you must provide a valid passport.
        A proof of residence (English preferred): it can be a bank statement, a utility bill, or similar document with your residence address printed on it. It must be not older than 3 months. No screenshots and full page is required


    How?
        Sign into your TRT account
        Hover your mouse on the top right corner, over your username and select “My personal data”, then select the “Verification” tab on the left.
        Upload your identity document: front, back (not needed with passport), photo (different from the one in the document)
        Upload your proof of residence.


Remember that the proof of residence and the identity document are BOTH mandatory. DO NOT send documents via email or any other way instead of the provided platform when logged in.

For any issue during this process, you can always contact us on our support system.
Please note that the verification process usually take at least 48 working hours, but often takes much longer and there is no way to speed it up: verification is serious business.

Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it.

You can check your verification status on your personal page as well, but as soon as your account is verified, an email is sent to you to confirm its verification.

image




If you hit the €15.000 monthly limit and you want to verify your account from Level 2 to Level 3,, we will mail you some documents and ask you to return them filled and signed.

Once verified, you will receive an email notification.

IMPORTANT NOTE: make sure your documentation is always updated; id must still be valid for at least another 6 months and proof of address must be not older than 1 year, otherwise banks will not credit your deposit to us waiting for these documentation updates.


    Please note: we do not accept US Citizens or Residents.

-------------


The one you quoted is here: https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

The note you quote is relevant. But you have to read it all and also taking in account the quoted "Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it.

Quote:
"Nota:

    per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status
    without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly
    please read our AML policy"

They can request additional information from level 2 and 3. That is the sense of the despite the status and also the fact that if you don't send it it will affect only your FIAT deposits: " without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly"

It only applies to unverified customers on the terms of their AML policy, that I quoted on the previous post.

8.4 can't be applied without 8.3, or 8.3 would be irrelevant. 8.4 only establishes the process, And they breached it completely.

They only required my documents when I finally went to them and ask for a withdrawal. 8.4 says they have to inform me. They blocked all my withdrawals since January/February 2018 without saying anything.

I accepted to keep being customer for 7 years and exchanged emails with the main founder and CFO with express declarations that I wouldn't ask for any other fiat withdrawal precisely in order to not being forced to send personal documents. And the CFO agreed: no fiat withdrawals, no need to send documents.

If I wanted to be a verified customer, I would have send them my documents long ago.

The importance I give to this issue made me make this post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/exchanges-that-dont-require-verification-to-trade-cryptocoins-and-fiat-689902

But my main points are:

We can't trust an exchange that explicitly accepts unverified customers by declaring that verification isn't mandatory and then:

1) Blocks all withdrawals for months without saying anything to the customer.
2) After the customer complains, doesn't apologize and demands personal documents invoking that I traded fiat or made fiat withdrawals 5 years ago, when the TOS allowed them. And holds the large funds without setting any temporal limit.

This destroys all trust and, in my opinion, is very suspicious. By coincidence, I have a large balance.

You agree with everything they did?

Do you think they have the right to keep my money because I don't want to send them my documents, (which I argue their TOS/FAQ gives me this right) even if I present irrefutable evidence that the money is mine?


Anyway, thanks for your time.