Topic: @THEYMOS Abusive group punished DT1 for speaking up against them (Read 3497 times)

Love the enthusiasm, but this thread hasn't been active in over 2-weeks. You should create your own thread if you believe the issue is worthy of that, but resurrecting a thread for personal drama is a waste of everyone's time.

I also learned this the hard way on this forum.

Never post anything on private you wouldn't on public.

You are doing just great. Please keep at it.

That is kinda circular logic, don't you think?

I don't think it is okay to harm someone's reputation -- and effectively remove their ability to earn income (here) for arbitrary reasons. It is a natural reaction to be upset when this happens to a person. With the current implementation of the trust system, even an obviously fake review is going to make other people hesitant to trade with the person because all reviews of those in the other person's trust network is calculated into the trust score.

The argument that "no one could possibly take the trust system seriously, therefore it is okay for someone to do a wrong via the trust system" is ridiculous. The fact the trust system is broken is not an excuse to use it to cause harm to others for arbitrary reasons. 

You do realize now we see the truth that you are just lauda's little bitch that ass kissing everything he says in public does not add any validity to his stupid lies?

We see lauda is just reduced from calling people scammers here (more lies from that croatian dog) because he can NOT produce any evidence of them scamming at all. TO now just speculating they do not have enough BTC to make any difference here? LOL at that dumb shit. Just bitch slapped in public over and over again. Only the most pathetic slobbering little bitches here like LFC bitchcoward still trying to suck up to lauda and back him up. Get these dregs out of DT and away from any positions of trust for good.

I see because I am challenging you I am grand standing now eh? Stop pretending like it is a rare occurrence people suffer at the hands of these people, it happens constantly on a daily basis. You are just being dismissive now because you prefer to feel right than to be correct as is your usual MO when you run out of logical arguments shortly before running away. The apathetic community here along with the shit trust system gives them power. Nepotism and fear gives them power. You are examining a tiny facet of this situation and claiming it is the whole. I spend the time doing this exactly BECAUSE I know it is a waste of time and no one else will spend the effort to do it and I am in a unique position to not be dismissed as a con artist as everyone who brings up these issues is. That is kind of the point, they can do all these things completely unchecked because they know no one will ever spend the effort to stand up against them. That is how singling people out one by one works. One day it is my turn the next maybe it is yours, who knows. That is the environment of ambiguity, selective enforcement, and nepotism I am fighting against.

None of your continual denial of the fact that users over rely on the trust system changes the fact it has a direct impact on ones ability to trade here. Again you are just taking your tiny little interpretation and expanding it out and claiming it is the whole as you summarily dismiss the other points as you always do. It is an extremely lazy and intellectually dishonest way for you to feel like you have made a point rather than making a critical examination of the issues. I don't want  a billion rules. I want a clear set of published rules that are uniformly enforced, specifically rules requiring a standard of evidence of theft, violation of contractual agreement, or violation of applicable laws before negative rating for one. What I don't want is this horse shit pretend utopia where Theymos pretends he is being an anarchist by letting a bunch of shithustlers dictate the direction of this forum because he refuses to put his foot down. How does having accountability make the trust system useless? Abusing such a convoluted opaque trust system does not make their abuse more transparent, no. I would even be happy to just totally gut the trust system and just let people leave comments. How is that for a billion rules and letting individuals judge? Oh well you haven't been a moderator woopty woo I am sure this hasn't colored your experience here or protected you in any way now has it?

The grand standing is appreciated as always. You can waste your time worrying about 1 in a trillion scenarios if you want, but most people are happy to live their lives without worrying that someone from the forum is going to hire someone to come get them or stage some sort of IRS conspiracy.  My response is that you are giving these people power over you. That doesn't excuse their action, I'm just saying you are taking the absolute least effective course of action. The DT bullies you are spending your time fighting, and the hours you are spending trying to reform a system is to fight someone with the authority of a hall monitor. If we aren't willing to give people the benefit of the doubt that they'll read feedback before judging its validity, then its all a moot point anyway. If a negative rating about you being a space alien can effect your business in any way, then this is not a hospitable business environment.

The trust system is indeed a tool for the newest most new and uniformed users to help them wade through the marketplace. I'm not seeing any new uniformed users here. The fact that you have already formulated your own idea of who is trustworthy and not means that you aren't relying on the default trust system. New users will do the same in a couple of months. I don't think it plays a major role here, no. Its a nice handy guideline for new users, not some all powerful list that decides the fate of anything besides a general suggestion for new users. What we are talking about is personal problems between users. I'm against creating a billion sets of rules that restrict users because 10 forum members can't get along. Then we add more rules when someone finds a new way around them. As we've had this discussion before, I don't agree with your rule proposals. We've already established that everyone here has different definitions of untrustworthy behavior, why suppress the feedback from people that are in the wrong? Let individuals judge who is wrong and who is right. If you are saying, yeah but we can't trust the users, they won't make informed decisions! Thats not a problem with the system, thats a problem with individuals once again.

We keep talking about how the trust system needs to be decentralized yet specific rules can be bullied into vote by either Extortion Group or Anti Extortion Group? Both groups are in effect looking to accomplish the same thing. You want accountability and by doing so making the trust system useless. They want to keep abusing trust, but my point is that people abusing trust doesn't break the system, it just makes their flaws more obvious. Let them make their own flaws obvious and trust users to make their own decisions.

Also, I haven't been a moderator for a few months, didn't have time to continue. The ignore button works pretty well when it comes to harassment.

Correct.

It's understandable to complain when you receive that scary red color, but making it your life mission to shitpost/complain about it over several months (if not longer)? Quite the pathetic life one has to have.

Well that is oh so magnanimous of you to decide for me and everyone else what is a waste of our time. Very gracious of you. It is not just feedback but the patterns of intimidation and punitive behavior engaged against anyone who challenges them forcing people to divide and form cliques. I warned about this result years ago and as usual you, and the rest of the peanut gallery poo pooed my warnings just as you are now. Using an escrow proves nothing as far as your reputability as you have no opportunity to steal anything. This is one reason why I personally refuse escrow in most cases because it shows people I am worthy of trust, not just reliable to put something in a box as promised. Additionally using an escrow itself is a risk as countless examples have shown us.

"I feel like the argument against my opinion is that every user here is a robot unable to read feedback, detect bias, and the weight for feedback from known shaky characters for being a "liar" or whatever else, is the same as someone claiming that you scammed them. "

Tell me Salty, what is the purported purpose of the trust system? Is it not supposed to be a tool for the newest and most uninformed users to be able to wade trough the marketplace and pick the most reputable traders to engage with? Is this not because they are new and unable to make informed decisions on their own to a large degree not knowing how things work here? If your premise is correct then the trust system serves ZERO purpose. The fact is even if they do know what to do most people are just going to look at the red and green numbers and move along because people are lazy. This translates to loss of sales or inability to participate in projects as a direct result of false abusive ratings, among other things like selective inclusions/exclusions.

You you have managed to avoid harassment because you are a jellyfish that flows with the tide. Also you are a mod, and to pretend like that offers you no protection from this is just a lie.

True, Lauda.
Imagine being aware of bitcoin for as long as they have been & crying over reputation here

We all know they ridicule sig campaigns & the participants of them because their rep is so damaged they can’t join one

I’m waiting for Thule’s lawsuit against those who have painted him red. No knocks on my door yet.

they're 'kicking the office cat'?

I disagree. Thule, CH et. al. will continue whining. Do you really think they have any significant amount of Bitcoin? Their impact here or anywhere is zero; they can't deal with that reality so they have to blame someone.

Imagine when bitcoin hits $100,000 per coin. Nobody will give a single shit about red trust, reputation, DT or whatever.
We’ll all be in a much better place

Fast forward to late 2021 - mid 2022.

That is precisely why the optimal environment is required , for the most efficient and productive use of energy by members here. Imagine rewarding those that are net negative and punishing those that are net positive? productivity would be greatly wasted.

Imagine if all the time wasted was put towards something more productive instead.. we'd be living on mars right now!

that is fair enough, however many items there are not really matters for debate or alternative opinions. They are merely the correct description of the mechanisms beneath the systems of control and their undeniable implications. Along with observable instances of people clearly being intimidated and scared to speak out and instances of punishments given for doing so.

I think if you were more open minded you would benefit greatly from our debates. That is just being honest not trying to sound superior in anyway to you. Sometimes being in a position of power too long can leave you blinkered and unrealistic. Also I never noticed you ever on the alt board so that may account for some lack of background on people, projects and scam attempts.

If you still feel you are able to provide a further rebuttal to any of my points now that I have described them in more detail I would be interested in reading it.

Wow who would have thought, we disagree on nearly everything. Doesn't seem to be a product of either of us misunderstanding anything, its a difference of opinion. You are more hands on, I'm more hands off. My opinion mainly stems from my opinion that most users are able to use whatever tools are available to them however they find best.

That's great news. Did you use SS bowl of cheerios?

jesus christ could you just like, idk, format your post properly?

That goes for all of you, thule et al, your walls of text are making me puke.

People "troll" because their victim will engage, if you don't give them the satisfaction thats kind of the end of it. The bolded is kind of my point, if you have unwarranted negative feedback and people are trying to harass you about it, if you don't blow it up into a massive thing, it'll just look like them being idiots and no one will take the negative feedback seriously. You look innocent in comparison, and the group of supporters begin to lose supporters. If a restaurant owner has a fake yelp review against their store that says, "Yeah the owner called me a weather balloon and spit in my face!" people will likely assume that its fake. If the owner responds by insulting them and calling them fake, it lends credence to the thought that maybe the owner is unstable enough to actually do what was claimed.

You guys are being provoked into making any false claims against you look real.