Topic: Trust system abuse / DT2 member Vod is provably dishonestly rating people - page 3. (Read 5847 times)

Yeah no, that's a weird way of seeing things, but very prevalent. Why would you want to be on DT even, so that you could give Vod a taste of his own medicine? And then what? Honestly, you can just stop giving a fuck about the trust score of yours because it DOESN'T MATTER(FUN FACT!), and if you really are persistent on this, ignore vod from your trust lists, you could try persuading DT1 members to remove Vod but that is highly unlikely.

You're only scared that people won't trade with you, because of the rating, right.? Well,  actmyname countered that rating,and gmaxwell's rating also makes your rating look much better, so if people still don't want to trade with you(excluding all the plausible reasons), then you probably just shouldn't trade with them in the first place, cause they are stupid to nuts.

DT is definitely not that type of lists. DT members have gone rogue, and you shouldn't be surprised if someone in the current DT list/s go rogue as well. DT was supposed to help people in the trading community by watching out for scammers and shit, well, now its just totally different, people tag for all the reasons trust for which trust system wasn't really intended for. I guess you just have to adjust according to change, or... just stop giving two fucks about it. Trust me , BEST THING EVER! 

What Og is trying to tell you is that most people see self-bidding to be unethical especially when you don't state anything about it, so Vod's rating isn't wrong, the timing of the rating and couple of other factors is.

Or... There's another possible and realistic reason and that is: Vod has given out so many ratings to people that are actually valid and rock solid, and removing him for one rating is just outright stupid. Removing Vod would only lead to more chaos than this. Vod shouldn't have done what he did about him asking you to remove his ratings, but he did it anyway, naivety happens, but he could try making up for it, its his wish. And by making I don't necessarily mean to remove the rating completely.

This case isn't complex, either people are way too stupid to understand(which they are) or they don't care enough.


1. I wouldn't mind that but then again, I don't care, and also good luck with that ever happening! 4head!
2. Refer to what I said above.
3. How is adding you to DT changing anything? Your rating would just show an effect on Vod's trust score. You should be added to DT if your rating leads to killing depression and idiotic dumbfuckers, bitcoin reaching 1 Billion dollar a piece, and that Trump has been a woman in disguise all along.

I think it's shady. The only other person I recall doing this was Quickseller when Blazed was expanding his list.


It's dishonest to do so without disclosing such possibility. You've been told this numerous times but you keep omitting this part.

Ognasty and others, go see e.g. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=51173 e.g. BayAreaCoins rating. That's a case where auction rules were changed during auction by mprep. But I know nobody will do anything about it. OgNasty even has him on his trust list... Go ask USA auction houses what they think about that. I can tell you that auction rules should never be changed during auction, and is not accepted by any standards anywhere. Thread about that: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/split-mpreps-unethical-violation-of-auction-rules-3147489

Shouldn't it be this way:

"Giving someone positive trust means you think they are unlikely to scam." Exactly. And adding someone on DT means you trust their judgement to do the same -- nothing more.

Why is DT not like this and why do you think it shouldn't be like this instead of your view of it?



Agree. I attempted that. Vod misunderstood me. Vod wanted resolve this when he thought I was on DT, but when realizing I was not on DT, he first blackmailed/threatened me and then blocked me. See the PM conversation.

Giving someone positive trust means you think they are unlikely to scam. Adding someone to DT (I hope) means you trust their judgement on others situations, their honesty, morality, and believe they would always strive to do the right thing even when it may not be in their best interest to do so. That you think their judgment and ratings are beneficial to the community.

It's not dishonesty or scamming for auctioneer to bid on an auction. Many people agree with me on this, including theymos. This is also very normal in auction houses in Finland. Are they all unethical scammers?


The wrongdoing hasn't changed at all.


Retaliatory? Vod blackmailed me, lies about me in his rating (I did not admit anything to him even though he claims so), rated me 2 years after the auction event he uses as his main argument etc. Again DT should not be any kind of elite club. It should merely include those who are unlikely to scam others. It's that simple.. Or should be that simple, but is apparently not.


It should not be an elite club where only the bestest of the best are invited. I see nothing wrong in asking to be added to the list of people unlikely to scam others. Tell me what DT should be if it's not what I describe it should be. Also I'm very interested in how you see the DT... as obviously you see it as something else than "list of people unlikely to scam others".

As I commented months ago on the first thread you created on this matter I think a policy non-escalation from you would have been the best from the very beginning.
That along with admitting and repenting for your mistake likely would have solved the issue before you had to start any thread at all.  Which you still won't..
You really still feel that way after so many respected members have tried to correct your viewpoint?

Despite this your protests have been wildly successful gaining yourself 2 DT counter positives though you seem to have manages to piss off suchmoon which so far has only resulted in a neutral.  

But you still are not satisfied even though you are back in the black.
Now you are asking to be added to DT because you feel the only solution is for your multiple retaliatory feedbacks left on him to hold as much weight as his on you.

I'm not sure how others feel but I think asking for DT is questionably shady akin to asking for positive feedback but I have not come across a conclusive discussion of that matter.  

Optimal solution would be if Vod analyzed his behavior and removed his rating. As that's not going to happen (at least when I'm not also on DT), and DT1's are not going to exclude Vod, the only remaining option is DT reform/removal. Me being on DT would possibly help achieve the optimal solution.

Solutions to fixing DT completely would be a reform / removal. The above are regarding this abuse case. So shortly: I think that optimal solution for my case would be if Vod stopped this abuse/harassing. Optimal solution for the forum would be to reform/remove DT.



Laughing doesn't mean they think it as scamming or dishonest behavior. Also, this is TOTALLY NORMAL in my country. I'm not in the States.


Who did I scam? How were I dishonest? I did nothing wrong. Think about it! The only thing there was inconvenience caused to some people due to BCT auction practice-formed standards not being met. Auction rules were same for everyone, including me. Vod told me he finds nothing in what I did as untrustworthy ("I decided what you did wasn't untrustworthy to me"). After blackmailing me and failing at it, he red-rated me using this auction as the reason. Tell me who was scammed and how, and what was the wrongdoing in my auction. Are people who agree with me here regarding self-bidding ridiculous as well? Like theymos?


I don't follow your logic here. If DT exists, I should be on it. If it doesn't, that's even better. Also regardless of this Vod abuse case.


What exactly am I refusing to listen? I see DT merely as a list of people who are unlikely to scam others. Nothing more. What do I not see here?

You want DT to add you or go away. Got it. There’s really no need for 22 pages of arguing. I’ve already shown an example of why your behavior was not acceptable in the auction industry and how the top action house laughed at me for questioning if it was. You continuing to argue that you did nothing wrong is ridiculous. You wanting on DT when you think it should be abolished is equally ridiculous. I’ve spent enough time in PMs trying to show you the light, but you refuse to listen. You can’t be helped if you refuse to grow.

Owlcatz is not on my trust list. I've left him a positive rating, because I've traded with him and everything was top notch when doing business with him. I don't agree with all the ratings owlcatz has left, and neither do I agree with all the ratings you've sent. Trust is not like that.

How so? It's not scamming or dishonest behavior in any way. Nobody was scammed. Auction rules were same for everyone. Different standard was followed than what BCT users are used to. And it was a single occasion almost 3 years ago, never happened when I learned about the auction standard regarding self-bids here. This event warrants wrecking a dark green trust score? In any case, this rating is still not about that auction.

Regardless of anything, Vod red-rated me after threatening to do so unless I removed my rating. Is that acceptable rating activity by a DT2 member?


Maybe in general, yes. My case is not about me wanting "bargaining power". I want fairness, and it's not happening right now. Vod won't be dropped from DT as this is way too "mild" misuse/abuse. Like you say, worse have been swept under the rug. I would see that a resolution to this could be found in practice only if I were on DT2 as well. DT should not be used for anything like this at all, but it is what it is. DT should not be any elite group, but just a group of people perceived to be trustworthy enough to not scam others. But most of all I would want DT system to go away completely.


The timing? Vod rated me red because he told me that it would happen unless I changed my rating. It's all in the public PM conversation found in the links earlier in this thread.


I see that the proper way to make DT better overall is to add a lot more DT1 and DT2 members. Then the perceived trustness of the whole thing would drop, encouraging people to make own custom lists more eagerly. Still DT would do what it's supposed to do: protect new people from getting scammed. More DT members would mean much more active curating and much more opinions and the highly appreciated decentralization. It would make DT much less a tool or a status symbol. People are trusting DT way too much and it's objectively not a good thing. Why not start changing how DT is used and perceived?

It would be good if DT didn't give anyone any significant "leverage". More members on DT1/DT2 would mean much less "leverage" and also much easier access to the DT. It's not like there aren't hundreds of members in the forums who are quite trustworthy but for one reason or another not in the list, and can't get on the list either. For example, people would see my attempts to get on DT purely as "wants to get back at Vod, that's bad!". I'm sure Vod knows the dynamics of DT too. But would e.g. you add me on the DT if Vod didn't rate me at all?

Bad ratings happen sometimes. Look at the garbage ratings owcatz has left me (who you trust). I believe bidding on your own auctions is much more warranting a negative mark on your record. One thing is certain though, people who want on DT to gain more bargaining power over others are the exact type of users that DT needs to keep out of the trust network. I think that’s what you aren’t understanding. The timing on Vod’s rating is crap, but it’s not like others haven’t received bad ratings for less. I would agree that worse things have been swept under the rug as well. For instance, minerjones doxxing Canaryinthemine, or hosting an auction for TMAN and allowing him to manipulate it, or doing a non-transparent ICO escrow with Lauda and Blazed while moving funds to a single centralized party without any explanation leading to massive losses for investors. Is DT perfect? No. Is there abuse that gets swept under the rug because people don’t want to make waves? Sure. However, your case is far from the worst abuse, and adding in more members who want to make the problem worse by leveraging their positions to sweep more bad behavior under the rug is not a step in the right direction. That being said, I’m always on the lookout for users with good judgement to add to DT2.

Ok. So let's try again - is this something DT1 members told you?



I take that as a "no". So I'd say stating it the way you did was false or at least misleading.


I've seen your "facts" numerous times. While I might've had some doubts early in this thread - I don't anymore. Your fallacy-laden posts show that Vod's feedback is useful to the community.

Didn't I predict this? It's false and misleading only in your own mind. Statements like that Vod blackmailed/threatened me by giving me an option to remove my rating or be red rated -- what's wrong with that and why are you not saying anything about it even though I've asked you to. You seem to be here only to derail the thread away from the important stuff. Didn't I predict this..


I did get responses. They align with what I said. And no, not proving you anything. It doesn't really matter why they're not acting on this. It matters that they have this power.

It's quite insane how you still try to change the pointing fingers at me. Guess that's the way of BCT. Again, Vod blackmailed/threatened me and then he red-rated me. Address that for once. You don't need to trust anyone's "judgement" as these are facts, available for you to go and verify.

I PM'd you -- we can keep discussing whatever you want in there if you truly want communication between you and me. Otherwise, don't bother. No more derailing of this thread.

You're making what sounds like a statement of fact but it turns out to be false or at least misleading. Do you really not see a problem with that and with the statements you're making in your thread in general?

You could have said that (a) you didn't get a response from DT1, or (b) you think they're not responding for the reasons you listed above. It was your own choice to word it in a way that makes you look like a liar, which is not the first time in this thread and also appears to be one of the reasons for your red trust. You could have explained afterwards that it's just your speculation and that would be ok but instead you decided to double down on it. Pro tip: if you don't want to derail your thread with irrelevant stuff - don't post irrelevant stuff.

My disagreement with you doesn't mean I'm bashing you personally, while on the other hand you are trying to make it personal. I have nothing to gain by "siding" with Vod. I do trust his judgement far more that yours though.

What's your point? To derail this thread even more with irrelevant stuff to make it even more incomprehensible for everyone to see what Vod is doing?

Anyway,
DT1's are inactive regarding trust list changes. You know this, you've been around, so why question this?
I'm sure people like Cyrus have tons of other things to do than go read some boring & complex situation about one single DT abuse/misuse case. This stands for other DT1's as well as to people in general.

There's no point talking with intellectually dishonest and unfair people like you, so I'm not proving you anything, so let's settle your question by me choosing your latter option as an answer. You still haven't commented anything about Vod's wrongdoing. All you do in this thread is trying to bash me. Wonder what's your agenda... I guess it aligns somewhat well with what someone said elsewhere about you: "Suchmoon always sides with people they feel are on the higher position." Think about this, if it's unintentional.

Is that something DT1 members told you or did you make that up?

Vod still has blocked my PM, so there is no way to even try to resolve this in private -- as was the case before. His rating to me is unfair and dishonest in many ways, a result of his threat/blackmail and big ego.

The current situation is beyond ridiculous. DT1 members who have added Vod on DT2 are not acting about it, because 1) it's just one case 2) they're inactive 3) this case is too complex, takes a lot time to objectively comprehend what happened 4) they simply don't care.

Leads to the current situation: Vod is on DT2 (added by 3x DT1) and won't be removed no matter what he does as long as he only does unfair and bad ratings occasionally and against people who can't be vocal against him. And even then nothing will happen, because DT is so very stagnant.

So what are the options as Vod does not want to resolve this in any way?
1) Change DT dramatically, ie. remove it completely. I would welcome that change...
2) Remove Vod from DT. (Not going to happen as described above.)
3) Add me to DT which would probably make Vod want to resolve this. That happened when Vod thought I was on DT, he was very eager to resolve it. When he found out I was not on DT, his eagerness changed to blocking me.

DT is not meant to be some elite list. It's meant to guard people from getting scammed. Vod's rating towards me has nothing to do with any sort of trustworthiness, as you can go see. Vod stated he didn't believe I did anything untrustworthy. "Suddenly" his opinion changed when *I* didn't want to do as he says, ie. remove my rating towards him. This was when he thought my rating towards him counted (ie was in "trusted feedback"). How in any way is that correct use of the trust system, yet alone correct use of DT ratings??

Why are you so scared of gay people?   

What a poor try to discredit someone


In my comment there is clearly written

"Calling me scammer and spammer without proof.
Total idiot defending Lauda

I guess part of their team"


Where do you see there me claiming you scammed me ?


You faggots are clearly looking for anything to accuse somebody to discredit

Your feedback was back from january.It means 9-10 months ago where you and VOD clearly saw these comments.
And now you claim i accused you for scamming ?Funny you never mentioned it earlier you faggot

As I just wrote in another thread, you left me a neg on 1/27/18 and under the "amount risked" you put 100BTC.  That's where Vod's claim comes from.  Stop denying you did this and that Vod is lying about you.  You fucked up.  You, and no one else.