UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread - page 614.

LUCKMCFLY

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Quote from: Daniel91 on October 16, 2021, 10:09:00 AM

I think that very big changes are starting to happen at the top of European football, and that the football map of Europe will change a lot.
In short, some former football greats like Barcelona, Liverpool, Arsenal, Inter, Milan ... could disappear and some new football greats like Newcastle and Leipzig could appear.
Barcelona is in a very difficult situation and has to sell off the best footballers in order to survive at all.
It could easily happen that they end up as former football greats like HSV, Torino, Nottingham Forest etc.
I think that's why they wanted the Super League so desperately in Barcelona, it was their last chance to save the club.
Today, football history means almost nothing, it all comes down to money and power, and currently Arab investors have money in abundance and where they invest money, new football greats, like PSG or Manchester City, are born.

I agree with your position on how you see the current situation of football, the one that surprises me the most is Barcelona, which is a team that despite all the bad things, due to the many crisis that it has had in my case, I never had in my life. left Messi, in fact he would have preferred to play with all the substitutes formed from the quarry than to leave Messi, and less in the way he came out. Now, now those who dominate are those who continue to have good acquisition of money, such as PSG, Real Madrid even if it is in crisis, I think they never show it, because they always aim at the most expensive players they have, for me it is a team that takes many risks at an economic level, and with respect to Newcastle it is seen that they want the best, unfortunately Zinedine Zidane cannot be their coach, because they looked for him and he wants to coach the French team, it is understandable, but it shows that many teams that were not so popular before can shine at any time.

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Quote from: sana54210 on October 16, 2021, 01:49:53 PM

I believe that Barcelona situation is something that we would have to watch closely but it is like a business just as you said. If there is an income, as long as you grow smaller and fire some players and get some cheaper players it is possible to pay all of that debt.

However the problem here is that they could simply just pay their debt in a year's worth of revenue while people are saying that they can't pay their debt back, I do not get why people are saying something like that. Sure it could be a problem if it is not managed properly but the problem here is that people assume they are suddenly bad, they are not bad, look at how they have done this year without rebuilding, just sending players off and they still managed to win so many games this year. By this off-season I am sure that they will end up getting a decent and better return by next season and be fighting for championship.

Same rules apply for buying and selling soccer clubs in European territory but here in case of Barcelona we have something different it's not owned by anyone it's running by big group of fans those are owner and have management control which is really issue for them every year they have election and then new president arrive they need to change few things for strong management and better financial solutions. Currently, they are in big debit even few companies can solve this problem but again this all need some approval from board meeting which is really issue for them for long time.

Here you can check all details about this one of the best soccer club in world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Barcelona

Silberman

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Quote from: joker_josue on October 14, 2021, 05:51:08 AM

Quote from: AndySt on October 13, 2021, 07:34:52 PM

By the way, if the pandemic story has hit the leading European leagues very hard financially, then in England it has manifested itself much less, which allows the English clubs to take an even better approach to strengthening their squads.

European clubs were more economically affected, because of the pandemic, because in recent years they have been buying players at extra high prices, for normal standards and profitability. The English clubs, on the other hand, were much more consistent and did not enter into this shopping madness. They may have made one or two purchases with extremely high values, but most of them didn't.

Now because of the pandemic, and the financial fairplay, as well as new tax rules in several European countries, many of the clubs that used to spend money can't do it.

Soccer is just like any business and as such it follows the same economic rules, I remember that a restaurant that I used to frequent went through a remodeling and it looked really nice, however they did this just one month before the pandemic took the world by surprise, as you may guess they went bankrupt as they had invested all of this money and then they had no clients due to the restrictions, while restaurants that were lucky to not do this just saved their cash and survived until they could open their doors again.

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Quote from: KTChampions on October 16, 2021, 01:38:34 PM

Quote from: alpamar99 on October 16, 2021, 01:11:39 PM

it's true that the sheriffs are more favored here because now they are 5 points adrift of inter who are in 3rd position, besides that they will be more confident now thanks to their good game during the UCL.
this is inversely proportional to Inter, which indeed their focus is divided because of the many matches that must be played and that of course makes the rotation of the players have to be really good because maintaining the tough competition in Serie A and UCL makes the players will be focused and must be very tired if they are too busy. forsir.
and they also need to be able to win at least all the games so they can qualify for the UCL and if they are careless in the match against the sheriff I think the chances of inter to advance to the next round will be smaller.

You write complete nonsense. In the upcoming match, if I remember correctly, Inter is the undisputed favorite with odds of 1.19. The odds of the Sheriff not reaching the next stage of the competition are estimated by the bookmakers as 1.35. And by the way, I think this is easy money, since it is very naive to seriously think that the Sheriff will be able to jump over its head in the decisive matches. Group stage matches are not so important because there is at least some distance here and you can always correct a mistake, so sometimes the top clubs relax and such intermediate results take place.

In the Real Madrid match against the Sheriff, it was very clear that Real Madrid was superior.
but again what determines the outcome is the game that lasts for 90 minutes not from odds and bets.
Technically, Inter is very superior when you look at the squad and the strength of Inter, which incidentally is a subscription to UCL and a giant club in Serie A, but this will not guarantee that they will become winners when their game is bad on the field and underestimates the opponent.
I think you remember the previous madrid and sheriff games don't you.
This should be a lesson for Inter Milan not to make the same mistakes as Real Madrid did because they are superior in every way and of course in betting they are underdogs but because they underestimate their opponents they are blunders with the mistakes they made.

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Quote from: tazmantasik on October 16, 2021, 06:33:16 AM

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on October 16, 2021, 06:04:03 AM

^ Management problems have been a thing for Barcelona for quite a long time. In recent years we saw a lot of coach change and even president change. A club cannot reach the stability of the management changes every now and then. Also, one thing to note is that every management tries to run the club in their own way so even the players need a bit of time to adjust. And about the crisis, maybe Barca should have addressed this a long time ago as this has not happened overnight right? The only way they can recover from this is by giving it time. Let 2 or 3 seasons pass by and things will be normal.

New president not have enough money look the same situation happen for Barcelona, I think who ever become new president is the same thing for Barcelona because club can't buy the foreigner, I think rule and system how to be owner in Barcelona or La Liga exactly not the same with primer league where any one have much money can buy club and become president there, in La Liga should Spain person only have club and become president but almost of la liga club less money.

it may be very difficult because the acquisition of clubs in La Liga is still hampered by several rules from the governing federation.
But when talking about acquisitions, I don't think it's impossible for people outside Spain to acquire, for example, one of the clubs, namely Malaga, which is led by the Sultan of the Middle East.
I don't know what will happen to barcelona in the future, but they are too poor right now and the club's top brass must be able to solve this problem at all costs so that they can continue to exist in both La Liga and the UCL.

kassex

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Quote from: kawetsriyanto on October 15, 2021, 01:30:52 PM

Quote from: rahmad2nd on October 15, 2021, 12:05:50 AM

Don't ever underestimate the Sheriff from the two matches that have been played they managed to win even in the second match defeating Real Madrid with a score of 1-2 at the Bernabeu

You are right. Never underestimate Sheriff, they have shown to Real Madrid fans that they can take 3 points on Real Madrid home. They can do the same way to Inter Milan fans. Sheriff is unpredictable this season, they can make more surprises in another match. Although we know that Inter Milan has everything to beat Sheriff but it is only in theory. In reality, Sheriff can defeat any team with solid playing.

What happened in Madrid is unlikely to happen again. Inter will be as concentrated as possible in this match. I think Inter will take 6 points in the next two matches against the Sheriff.Real Madrid underestimated the opponent, Inter will not make this mistake. Moreover, failure in the matches against the Sheriff will put an end to the team's prospects in the Champions League.

sana54210

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Quote from: alegotardo on October 15, 2021, 09:38:50 PM

Obviously, football is a business that needs to be managed like any other endeavor.
Managers must choose between investing, even with debt, to achieve their goals in the future.
Or else they retreat, selling players to pay off current debts and thus "sacrifice" the goals of winning competitions at that time.

I, therefore, agree with you that Barcelona isn't out of control, and I support their decision to seek to win the league at this point.

I believe that Barcelona situation is something that we would have to watch closely but it is like a business just as you said. If there is an income, as long as you grow smaller and fire some players and get some cheaper players it is possible to pay all of that debt.

However the problem here is that they could simply just pay their debt in a year's worth of revenue while people are saying that they can't pay their debt back, I do not get why people are saying something like that. Sure it could be a problem if it is not managed properly but the problem here is that people assume they are suddenly bad, they are not bad, look at how they have done this year without rebuilding, just sending players off and they still managed to win so many games this year. By this off-season I am sure that they will end up getting a decent and better return by next season and be fighting for championship.

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Quote from: alpamar99 on October 16, 2021, 01:11:39 PM

it's true that the sheriffs are more favored here because now they are 5 points adrift of inter who are in 3rd position, besides that they will be more confident now thanks to their good game during the UCL.
this is inversely proportional to Inter, which indeed their focus is divided because of the many matches that must be played and that of course makes the rotation of the players have to be really good because maintaining the tough competition in Serie A and UCL makes the players will be focused and must be very tired if they are too busy. forsir.
and they also need to be able to win at least all the games so they can qualify for the UCL and if they are careless in the match against the sheriff I think the chances of inter to advance to the next round will be smaller.

You write complete nonsense. In the upcoming match, if I remember correctly, Inter is the undisputed favorite with odds of 1.19. The odds of the Sheriff not reaching the next stage of the competition are estimated by the bookmakers as 1.35. And by the way, I think this is easy money, since it is very naive to seriously think that the Sheriff will be able to jump over its head in the decisive matches. Group stage matches are not so important because there is at least some distance here and you can always correct a mistake, so sometimes the top clubs relax and such intermediate results take place.

alpamar99

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Quote from: blackened515 on October 15, 2021, 09:37:32 PM

Quote from: alpamar99 on October 15, 2021, 02:52:49 PM

they will definitely look for safety when they want to advance to the next round but the draw against real madrid and iter milan is not an easy thing especially after they made a breakthrough in the first leg I think these two big teams will put their full strength and not look easy anymore because when madrid against the sheriff it was clear that they looked down on a team below their level and they lost with their arrogance.

Their next Champion League match is against Inter, and it will be tough for both teams. Sheriff are in a high spirit, they seem very prepared for the Champion League this season, and it will take extra effort for Inter and Real Madrid to move to the next round in the Group D. No doubt, Real Madrid underrated Sheriff in their last Champion League match, they though it was an easy winning for them. Inter have to put in great effort in order for them not to lose against Sheriff on Tuesday.

it's true that the sheriffs are more favored here because now they are 5 points adrift of inter who are in 3rd position, besides that they will be more confident now thanks to their good game during the UCL.
this is inversely proportional to Inter, which indeed their focus is divided because of the many matches that must be played and that of course makes the rotation of the players have to be really good because maintaining the tough competition in Serie A and UCL makes the players will be focused and must be very tired if they are too busy. forsir.
and they also need to be able to win at least all the games so they can qualify for the UCL and if they are careless in the match against the sheriff I think the chances of inter to advance to the next round will be smaller.

Daniel91

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I think that very big changes are starting to happen at the top of European football, and that the football map of Europe will change a lot.
In short, some former football greats like Barcelona, Liverpool, Arsenal, Inter, Milan ... could disappear and some new football greats like Newcastle and Leipzig could appear.
Barcelona is in a very difficult situation and has to sell off the best footballers in order to survive at all.
It could easily happen that they end up as former football greats like HSV, Torino, Nottingham Forest etc.
I think that's why they wanted the Super League so desperately in Barcelona, it was their last chance to save the club.
Today, football history means almost nothing, it all comes down to money and power, and currently Arab investors have money in abundance and where they invest money, new football greats, like PSG or Manchester City, are born.

Altryist

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Quote from: Furious 7 on October 15, 2021, 03:13:59 PM

Even so but I believe Inter Milan can have him above the Sheriff in the next match, but unexpected expectations will definitely occur considering the Sheriff has won twice in the group phase I just want to know how far the sheriff's ability against Inter Milan even though they have been able to win at the bernabeu.

Efforts to win will definitely be carried out by Inter Milan with 70% I believe Inter can win if the result is a draw then a big threat for Inter because they are not able to collect points properly, even draw and losing is a nightmare for him.

Definitely, Inter in the Match with Sheriff will only need a victory, because fighting against Real Madrid for the second place in the group is a very difficult task. I think Inter will save their strength for this match and today's match with Lazio they may not play at full strength, which Lazio can take advantage of. Sheriff is definitely very good in this season and if they manage to beat Intre it will still be a big surprise for me.

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on October 16, 2021, 06:04:03 AM

^ Management problems have been a thing for Barcelona for quite a long time. In recent years we saw a lot of coach change and even president change. A club cannot reach the stability of the management changes every now and then. Also, one thing to note is that every management tries to run the club in their own way so even the players need a bit of time to adjust. And about the crisis, maybe Barca should have addressed this a long time ago as this has not happened overnight right? The only way they can recover from this is by giving it time. Let 2 or 3 seasons pass by and things will be normal.

New president not have enough money look the same situation happen for Barcelona, I think who ever become new president is the same thing for Barcelona because club can't buy the foreigner, I think rule and system how to be owner in Barcelona or La Liga exactly not the same with primer league where any one have much money can buy club and become president there, in La Liga should Spain person only have club and become president but almost of la liga club less money.

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Quote from: blackened515 on October 15, 2021, 09:37:32 PM

Quote from: Pulsar77 on October 15, 2021, 02:05:42 PM

I wonder what will happen in the game between the Turkish team Besiktas and Sporting. Both of these teams got similar results in their first games but Sporting conceded more goals. Maybe both of them are in a poor condition but I saw that Besiktas' performance against their opponents was more promising than Sporting's. And this game is going to be played in Istanbul too. Besiktas have had some important players missing. If they bounce back, then they will have a big chance to win against Sporting in this game.

Sporting haven't won any match in the Champion League, and it will be tough for them to beat Besiktas in an away match. Sporting have so far conceded 6 goals in the last two champion League matches. The same thing applied to Besiktas, they also haven't won in the champion League, but have conceded 4 goals. My.predictiom on the game is both team to score.

Betting on both teams to score in this match I think will be very risky, because both teams are likely to only implement a defensive strategy once they have a goal first. With predictions like that, I think it would be better to bet less or more than under 2.5 goals which I think would be better. But yes, everyone has their own opinion and I personally believe the match will be dominated by the home team, although the current odds show Sporting to be the favourite, but I'm not sure Sporting will win here at least a draw is a good result for the away team.

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^ Management problems have been a thing for Barcelona for quite a long time. In recent years we saw a lot of coach change and even president change. A club cannot reach the stability of the management changes every now and then. Also, one thing to note is that every management tries to run the club in their own way so even the players need a bit of time to adjust. And about the crisis, maybe Barca should have addressed this a long time ago as this has not happened overnight right? The only way they can recover from this is by giving it time. Let 2 or 3 seasons pass by and things will be normal.

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Quote from: fullhdpixel on October 15, 2021, 05:09:14 PM

Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on October 15, 2021, 02:55:11 AM

although Real Madrid is one of the most solvent teams and under which it has very little crisis, now the case of Barcelona is something worse, since before the pandemic they had talked about their crisis, and this already They had made it known to Messi for his annual payment, however the team continued but there came a time that he could not take it anymore, I do not know if this may have been the cause of selling Messi to PSG, however the way he left Barcelona was not the right one, and even if it was in crisis I would never have left Messi, now I think the crisis is much worse and they are running out of fans, without sales and losing.

Barcelona having 1 billion dollars debt is not really that bad, it is something they could pay off. How? Well, their yearly revenue is around 800-900 million euro. This means that they can't just consider all of that as their profit, of course they have so many costs, and they are losing money even while earning that much revenue (hence the debt). Without making a loss, if they end up spending 500 million euro instead of 1+ billion a year, then they could end up with 300 million a year for profit, and they could use that for 3-4 years and pay all of that debt.

They are making a debt because they want to win something, win at the league, win at Europe, win anywhere basically. If they stop caring about wins, they are making 800+ million revenue so it should not be really a problem for them to pay off that debt and go back to being awesome again in the future.

Barcelona's problem is generic in nature. Maybe financial crisis is being is being fronted but there is not the only problem the club is facing. The club is facing management problems. In the midst of their financial problem, or even before it was to become obvious, they should have made a huge money with Messi. But Messi surprisingly left like any common player would.
Is it because of the financial problem that made the coach less confident and less tactical?
Barcelona should try and bring in a coach that has not experience of Messi. This will go a long way to introduce fresh ideology and strategy in the club.

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Quote from: alegotardo on October 15, 2021, 09:38:50 PM

Quote from: fullhdpixel on October 15, 2021, 05:09:14 PM

Barcelona having 1 billion dollars debt is not really that bad, it is something they could pay off. How? Well, their yearly revenue is around 800-900 million euro. This means that they can't just consider all of that as their profit, of course they have so many costs, and they are losing money even while earning that much revenue (hence the debt). Without making a loss, if they end up spending 500 million euro instead of 1+ billion a year, then they could end up with 300 million a year for profit, and they could use that for 3-4 years and pay all of that debt.

They are making a debt because they want to win something, win at the league, win at Europe, win anywhere basically. If they stop caring about wins, they are making 800+ million revenue so it should not be really a problem for them to pay off that debt and go back to being awesome again in the future.

Obviously, football is a business that needs to be managed like any other endeavor.
Managers must choose between investing, even with debt, to achieve their goals in the future.
Or else they retreat, selling players to pay off current debts and thus "sacrifice" the goals of winning competitions at that time.

I, therefore, agree with you that Barcelona isn't out of control, and I support their decision to seek to win the league at this point.

Football right now is business and all team from player until coach and management have understanding each other how tow to earn much profit and team can play well with many trophies win, but what happen with Barcelona because mistake made by management before where giving much salary for many player, the management really brave to buy some player with over value and now they have many debt with other club because have cases buy with over value.

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Quote from: fullhdpixel on October 15, 2021, 05:09:14 PM

Barcelona having 1 billion dollars debt is not really that bad, it is something they could pay off. How? Well, their yearly revenue is around 800-900 million euro. This means that they can't just consider all of that as their profit, of course they have so many costs, and they are losing money even while earning that much revenue (hence the debt). Without making a loss, if they end up spending 500 million euro instead of 1+ billion a year, then they could end up with 300 million a year for profit, and they could use that for 3-4 years and pay all of that debt.

They are making a debt because they want to win something, win at the league, win at Europe, win anywhere basically. If they stop caring about wins, they are making 800+ million revenue so it should not be really a problem for them to pay off that debt and go back to being awesome again in the future.

Obviously, football is a business that needs to be managed like any other endeavor.
Managers must choose between investing, even with debt, to achieve their goals in the future.
Or else they retreat, selling players to pay off current debts and thus "sacrifice" the goals of winning competitions at that time.

I, therefore, agree with you that Barcelona isn't out of control, and I support their decision to seek to win the league at this point.

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Quote from: Pulsar77 on October 15, 2021, 02:05:42 PM

I wonder what will happen in the game between the Turkish team Besiktas and Sporting. Both of these teams got similar results in their first games but Sporting conceded more goals. Maybe both of them are in a poor condition but I saw that Besiktas' performance against their opponents was more promising than Sporting's. And this game is going to be played in Istanbul too. Besiktas have had some important players missing. If they bounce back, then they will have a big chance to win against Sporting in this game.

Sporting haven't won any match in the Champion League, and it will be tough for them to beat Besiktas in an away match. Sporting have so far conceded 6 goals in the last two champion League matches. The same thing applied to Besiktas, they also haven't won in the champion League, but have conceded 4 goals. My.predictiom on the game is both team to score.

Quote from: alpamar99 on October 15, 2021, 02:52:49 PM

Quote from: joker_josue on October 15, 2021, 12:35:24 PM

Quote from: tyz on October 15, 2021, 07:56:27 AM

I would still expect both Real Madrid and Inter Milan to advance in the group. Of course, Sheriff surprised me, too. But they've also had a lot of luck in both games so far, which shouldn't last. Besides, the other teams are now prepared for what awaits them, because I think that especially Real had massively underestimated Sheriff. That won't happen again in the second leg. I think Sheriff will only be third in the group and comes to the Euro League where they could then in any case still provide for some furore.

That's true, but let's not forget that the Sheriff just needs to draw every game to get second in the group. This is because they have 6 points, Real Madrid have 3, and the other clubs only have 1. Of course it is still difficult, but they are very well placed to move forward in the competition.

they will definitely look for safety when they want to advance to the next round but the draw against real madrid and iter milan is not an easy thing especially after they made a breakthrough in the first leg I think these two big teams will put their full strength and not look easy anymore because when madrid against the sheriff it was clear that they looked down on a team below their level and they lost with their arrogance.

Their next Champion League match is against Inter, and it will be tough for both teams. Sheriff are in a high spirit, they seem very prepared for the Champion League this season, and it will take extra effort for Inter and Real Madrid to move to the next round in the Group D. No doubt, Real Madrid underrated Sheriff in their last Champion League match, they though it was an easy winning for them. Inter have to put in great effort in order for them not to lose against Sheriff on Tuesday.

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Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on October 15, 2021, 02:55:11 AM

although Real Madrid is one of the most solvent teams and under which it has very little crisis, now the case of Barcelona is something worse, since before the pandemic they had talked about their crisis, and this already They had made it known to Messi for his annual payment, however the team continued but there came a time that he could not take it anymore, I do not know if this may have been the cause of selling Messi to PSG, however the way he left Barcelona was not the right one, and even if it was in crisis I would never have left Messi, now I think the crisis is much worse and they are running out of fans, without sales and losing.

Barcelona having 1 billion dollars debt is not really that bad, it is something they could pay off. How? Well, their yearly revenue is around 800-900 million euro. This means that they can't just consider all of that as their profit, of course they have so many costs, and they are losing money even while earning that much revenue (hence the debt). Without making a loss, if they end up spending 500 million euro instead of 1+ billion a year, then they could end up with 300 million a year for profit, and they could use that for 3-4 years and pay all of that debt.

They are making a debt because they want to win something, win at the league, win at Europe, win anywhere basically. If they stop caring about wins, they are making 800+ million revenue so it should not be really a problem for them to pay off that debt and go back to being awesome again in the future.

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Quote from: alpamar99 on October 15, 2021, 02:52:49 PM

they will definitely look for safety when they want to advance to the next round but the draw against real madrid and iter milan is not an easy thing especially after they made a breakthrough in the first leg I think these two big teams will put their full strength and not look easy anymore because when madrid against the sheriff it was clear that they looked down on a team below their level and they lost with their arrogance.

absolutely agree with you
unfortunately at these levels there are no certainties, otherwise it would be boring

instead the fact that it's unpredictable is fun, that's what makes it fun in my opinion

Cheesy

Topic: UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread - page 614. (Read 129798 times)