Ukraine rejects Russia Gazprom gas price hike - page 17.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: umair127 on May 26, 2014, 06:47:02 PM

yeah this is why after 10 years of fighting over prices, Russia finally agreed on a lower price. Because they know if they don't accept, they don't really have anyone rich enough left to sell their gases to due to the lack of political allies.

Russia didn't agreed to a lower price. China wanted gas at $300 per 1,000 cubic meters, almost 25% lower than the rates which Germany pays now. Russia wanted the European rates ($400 per 1,000 cubic meters). They finally agreed upon $350 to $380 per 1,000 cubic meters.

noviapriani

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Quote from: zolace on May 26, 2014, 08:51:53 PM

Quote from: Rigon on May 26, 2014, 08:45:41 PM

Quote from: noviapriani on May 26, 2014, 08:40:28 PM

China might have its political position strengthened after this deal, but I guess, it's relationship with USA is surely going to be adversely affected... It is playing a risky game...

Washington is undoubtedly shaken by the deal... Read online that it doesn't want any other nations to do business with Moscow... Monopoly characteristics are coming out in the sun now!

Washington already know that the deal was going to happen due to them alienating Russia with sanctions. They have already predicted it would happen and Russia knows it too.

yea true but you know what Russia is doing now is not only 'selling' natural gas to China, it is also 'buying' China's help as a political ally. Imagine, if Russia were to be attacked, the flow of natural gas to China will be stopped. And China will definitely not want that and help Russia!

zolace

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Quote from: Rigon on May 26, 2014, 08:45:41 PM

Quote from: noviapriani on May 26, 2014, 08:40:28 PM

China might have its political position strengthened after this deal, but I guess, it's relationship with USA is surely going to be adversely affected... It is playing a risky game...

Washington is undoubtedly shaken by the deal... Read online that it doesn't want any other nations to do business with Moscow... Monopoly characteristics are coming out in the sun now!

Washington already know that the deal was going to happen due to them alienating Russia with sanctions. They have already predicted it would happen and Russia knows it too.

Rigon

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Quote from: noviapriani on May 26, 2014, 08:40:28 PM

China might have its political position strengthened after this deal, but I guess, it's relationship with USA is surely going to be adversely affected... It is playing a risky game...

Washington is undoubtedly shaken by the deal... Read online that it doesn't want any other nations to do business with Moscow... Monopoly characteristics are coming out in the sun now!

noviapriani

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China might have its political position strengthened after this deal, but I guess, it's relationship with USA is surely going to be adversely affected... It is playing a risky game...

umair127

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Quote from: zolace on May 26, 2014, 07:54:27 PM

Quote from: umair127 on May 26, 2014, 06:47:02 PM

Quote from: noviapriani on May 26, 2014, 06:41:20 PM

This is an agreement where China agrees to BUY natural gas from Russia. It is just a case of Russia losing business from the western countries due to the Ukrainian conflict and looking to sell the business that was lost to China to compensate their losses

yeah this is why after 10 years of fighting over prices, Russia finally agreed on a lower price. Because they know if they don't accept, they don't really have anyone rich enough left to sell their gases to due to the lack of political allies.

Actually, I think the Chinese acted smart here.
The Chinese saw an opportunity to take advantage due to Russia's economy being in trouble over the Ukrainian conflict and took the opportunity to make a profit. So congrats to them I guess.

Also China is using too many fossil fuels. The air in their cities are too polluted. They should switch to clean energy or there will be no planet left for them to 'rise up to number 1' in 5-7 years time.

zolace

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Quote from: umair127 on May 26, 2014, 06:47:02 PM

Quote from: noviapriani on May 26, 2014, 06:41:20 PM

This is an agreement where China agrees to BUY natural gas from Russia. It is just a case of Russia losing business from the western countries due to the Ukrainian conflict and looking to sell the business that was lost to China to compensate their losses

yeah this is why after 10 years of fighting over prices, Russia finally agreed on a lower price. Because they know if they don't accept, they don't really have anyone rich enough left to sell their gases to due to the lack of political allies.

Actually, I think the Chinese acted smart here.
The Chinese saw an opportunity to take advantage due to Russia's economy being in trouble over the Ukrainian conflict and took the opportunity to make a profit. So congrats to them I guess.

umair127

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Quote from: noviapriani on May 26, 2014, 06:41:20 PM

This is an agreement where China agrees to BUY natural gas from Russia. It is just a case of Russia losing business from the western countries due to the Ukrainian conflict and looking to sell the business that was lost to China to compensate their losses

yeah this is why after 10 years of fighting over prices, Russia finally agreed on a lower price. Because they know if they don't accept, they don't really have anyone rich enough left to sell their gases to due to the lack of political allies.

noviapriani

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This is an agreement where China agrees to BUY natural gas from Russia. It is just a case of Russia losing business from the western countries due to the Ukrainian conflict and looking to sell the business that was lost to China to compensate their losses

Rigon

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Quote from: noviapriani on May 26, 2014, 02:07:08 PM

$400 billion gasoline agreement – Congrats China
Too many articles on how Putin has played the West, yet this agreement also is a new punch of China to the East and the whole world as well.
Not many people believe that the oil rig China recently deployed in Asian Sea (popularly known as South China Sea), which is accompanied by many “government vessels“ (if not army ships), may find some oil in that area. But somehow, not surprisingly, the oil rig helped China to find gas at good price from Russia.

China has proved itself again... I guess within another 5-7 years, US is going to slide down and we will see China empowering itself.. Coming back to the topic, I guess now Japan and Korea will be the sufferers and they will be the ones facing tighter supply..

noviapriani

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Quote from: umair127 on May 26, 2014, 03:17:08 PM

Quote from: noviapriani on May 26, 2014, 02:07:08 PM

$400 billion gasoline agreement – Congrats China
Too many articles on how Putin has played the West, yet this agreement also is a new punch of China to the East and the whole world as well.

A strong sign was sent before Putin’s visit: supply from Russia is not the only option Beijing may have (in fact it seems the only one, just in my own opinion). Beijing is ready to find their own energy supply from the south at any price. And attach to Vietnamese coastal security ships is just a start.
Beijing has its gas supply agreement for 30 years, what is next?

The oil rig has not finished its task yet. So it will stay there longer. If Asean fails to express its union in the issue of Spratlys and Paracels, who knows how long China would stay there. Well, after what happened in Cambodia last year, union seems a hard-to-pronunciate word in south east asia LOL

deisik

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Quote from: umair127 on May 26, 2014, 03:17:08 PM

Quote from: noviapriani on May 26, 2014, 02:07:08 PM

$400 billion gasoline agreement – Congrats China
Too many articles on how Putin has played the West, yet this agreement also is a new punch of China to the East and the whole world as well.
Not many people believe that the oil rig China recently deployed in Asian Sea (popularly known as South China Sea), which is accompanied by many “government vessels“ (if not army ships), may find some oil in that area. But somehow, not surprisingly, the oil rig helped China to find gas at good price from Russia.

A strong sign was sent before Putin’s visit: supply from Russia is not the only option Beijing may have (in fact it seems the only one, just in my own opinion)

You probably forget about Iran (which is China's ally)... Cool

umair127

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Quote from: noviapriani on May 26, 2014, 02:07:08 PM

$400 billion gasoline agreement – Congrats China
Too many articles on how Putin has played the West, yet this agreement also is a new punch of China to the East and the whole world as well.
Not many people believe that the oil rig China recently deployed in Asian Sea (popularly known as South China Sea), which is accompanied by many “government vessels“ (if not army ships), may find some oil in that area. But somehow, not surprisingly, the oil rig helped China to find gas at good price from Russia.

A strong sign was sent before Putin’s visit: supply from Russia is not the only option Beijing may have (in fact it seems the only one, just in my own opinion). Beijing is ready to find their own energy supply from the south at any price. And attach to Vietnamese coastal security ships is just a start.
Beijing has its gas supply agreement for 30 years, what is next?

noviapriani

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$400 billion gasoline agreement – Congrats China
Too many articles on how Putin has played the West, yet this agreement also is a new punch of China to the East and the whole world as well.
Not many people believe that the oil rig China recently deployed in Asian Sea (popularly known as South China Sea), which is accompanied by many “government vessels“ (if not army ships), may find some oil in that area. But somehow, not surprisingly, the oil rig helped China to find gas at good price from Russia.

kuroman

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well at least they should pay what they own to gazprom, they can't just be aggressive in one front, and try to negotiate on another, as for price increase, I think that gazprom kept prices low for Ukrain for geopolitical reasons, but now they don't have any reason to do so, and since the EU (us europeans) that will pay the bill with our tax money.

deisik

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 26, 2014, 11:44:17 AM

Quote from: Balthazar on May 26, 2014, 11:33:24 AM

$485 is a good price, if you take a risks of non-payment into account.

I still believe it is a bit high. The reasons are:

1. Russian gas does not need to be transported through any third nation, before reaching Ukraine.
2. Germany and other Western nations are only paying around $400-425 per thousand cubic meters.
3. Most of the industries which depend on the Russian gas are located in the Russian speaking provinces of Dnipropetrovsk, Donetsk, Kharkov and Lugansk.

If I'm not mistaken, Ukraine never paid such price before, but now circumstances have changed significantly. Donetsk and Lugansk are no longer under the authority of Kiev (whether you like it or not), the power holding groups in Kiev are openly hostile to Kremlin... So what could we reasonably expect? Cool

Also, is Gazprom obliged in any way to sell gas to anyone? Roll Eyes

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Balthazar on May 26, 2014, 11:33:24 AM

$485 is a good price, if you take a risks of non-payment into account.

I still believe it is a bit high. The reasons are:

1. Russian gas does not need to be transported through any third nation, before reaching Ukraine.
2. Germany and other Western nations are only paying around $400-425 per thousand cubic meters.
3. Most of the industries which depend on the Russian gas are located in the Russian speaking provinces of Dnipropetrovsk, Donetsk, Kharkov and Lugansk.

Balthazar

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$485 is a good price, if you take a risks of non-payment into account.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Nemo1024 on May 26, 2014, 10:30:59 AM

And Europe starts to get nervous:
http://rt.com/business/161560-ukraine-must-pay-oettinger/

Ha.... the EU Energy Commissioner is German. Grin

Soon the CIA will find a way to replace him with one of their puppets. And about the fair and suitable market price of $200-$400, I really hope that he is joking. Natural gas for $200 per 1,000 cubic meters? May be 10 years ago. Definitely not now. BTW... I'll agree that $485 / 1,000 Cu.m is a bit excessive. $400-425 might be a fair price.

Nemo1024

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And Europe starts to get nervous:
http://rt.com/business/161560-ukraine-must-pay-oettinger/

Topic: Ukraine rejects Russia Gazprom gas price hike - page 17. (Read 26481 times)