Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 31952. (Read 26731413 times)
November 20, 2013, 03:35:23 AM
do they have hamsters running in wheels on stamp? WTF
November 20, 2013, 03:34:32 AM
Stamp seems stalled.
November 20, 2013, 03:30:05 AM
Yes, I agree. In my opinion, this kind of dump could be explained by one of the follows
1) failed manipulation
2) desperate for cash in urgent (doubt it due to the withdraw problem there)
3) insider trading (I don't know which news can dramatically crash BTC market now)
4) stolen BTCs (I heard Gox needs identification?)
5) arbitrage (are there some big buys that time in other exchanges?)
6) ... just crazy.
Any more explanations?
7) Someone who missed a chance to sell at a profit after the April correction, and thinks it is happening again and panics.
8 ) Manipulation that didn't fail, causes doubt about the market, follows up with more dumps, waits for full on panic.
1-Yepppp
2-Desperate for 5MM? Happens to be at the time when most banks around the world are closed? Extremely unlikely
3-Possibility, but it's already been few hours after the market sell and no news, so he could've at least spread it over few hours. But a day or two should show for sure
4-Yeah, but again why dump all at once like that at odd hours coincidence?
5-No way to move such amount across exchanges, and highly doubtful that he had the same amount at other exchanges to cover. And arb been there for some time no reason to do a market sell
6-always an option, but how many crazy multi millionaires do you know who throw money out like that
7-Timing just makes this too unlikely.
8-True, but if i tried to pull this off i'd be betting on instantaneous panic, plus that wall BTC1.5k wall was a BTC1.7k wall at $533 and got moved back once people started to go at it. Smells like intimidation tactic.
9-FBI cashing in on those confiscated SR coins? 10k down 40k to go?
November 20, 2013, 03:27:29 AM
Yes, I agree. In my opinion, this kind of dump could be explained by one of the follows
1) failed manipulation
2) desperate for cash in urgent (doubt it due to the withdraw problem there)
3) insider trading (I don't know which news can dramatically crash BTC market now)
4) stolen BTCs (I heard Gox needs identification?)
5) arbitrage (are there some big buys that time in other exchanges?)
6) ... just crazy.
Any more explanations?
7) Someone who missed a chance to sell at a profit after the April correction, and thinks it is happening again and panics.
8 ) Manipulation that didn't fail, causes doubt about the market, follows up with more dumps, waits for full on panic.
9) early adopter liquidating part of his stash (rise yesterday on this chart https://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-days-destroyed)
gox is still the best place to handle such an amount without major slippage.
given the amount of cash i'm sure anybody would be okay to wait for the withdrawal a bit longer. (except he's living in japan)
just speculating here...
November 20, 2013, 03:24:30 AM
Placed a few bids on Bitstamp around $370, just in case 
November 20, 2013, 03:24:25 AM
It is late and my apologies if I sound over-all bearish - I am but momentarily a bear. Crypto currencies are the future of commerce, that is clear, for many technical reasons. The question I wrestle with is will it be BTC in which the value of that technology will be stored?
There is no viable alternative to BTC at the moment. By the time any decent alternative were to come along, BTC will be so fully entrenched that it will take a long time to supplant, if ever. IMHO we won't be in a slump for long, so buy back sooner than you think you should. Just like the "weekend" dip often happened a day earlier each week in March, as people tried to beat everyone else to selling before the weekend dip, everyone will be scrambling to be the first to buy back in. Each "bubble" will have (and has had) much less gain before the correction, and the rebound will come much sooner. Because of the bullishness overall conditions when this correction happened I can't see it being anything like April, let alone 2011. Now, rip off that borrowed bear skin and get to looking for an entry point!
November 20, 2013, 03:18:25 AM
Right... And as soon as those people who bought the coin for 500-1000-10000 whatever don't get 501-1001-10001 in return after X time then what happens? You see again, the system needs new $$ to operate.
Yes, and the amount of interest drummed up in the last few days has assured that many people are trying to get money in. They may wait to see where we land, but everyone knows we will be back up to $900+ eventually. It would be awesome to consolidate for a few weeks, but I doubt we will be so lucky. You are new, listen to the likes of Nemesis. Not Blitz, he is not so bright with his "2011 all over" talk. Everything is crazy bullish right now. This is the best buying opportunity we will have for quite a while. Watch closely if you are waiting for a bottom, they happen fast and are gone. It may take a few days to sort this correction out, but it will be history soon enough. If I had any more fiat handy, I would be getting it ready to spend, alas I spent the last little bit I had at $180 after the crash from $233. At least I still have some $2 coins
Seriously though, be careful, what you want is more BTC, not more fiat. Don't miss the boat because you are too bearish.It is late and my apologies if I sound over-all bearish - I am but momentarily a bear. Crypto currencies are the future of commerce, that is clear, for many technical reasons. The question I wrestle with is will it be BTC in which the value of that technology will be stored?
It's difficult to predict the price when it goes mainstream, but we can be sure that mainstream is still far away. So nothing to worry until then.
November 20, 2013, 03:13:51 AM
noob question: how important is parabolic sar as an indicator?
1d charts for stamp and gox show that it flipped.
don't want to spread FUD, just want hear your opinions.
I'm not familiar with SAR (??) but I find EMA can give a good indication of trends; however, I don't think a daily chart provides particularly accurate info - the longer the time frame the more accurate TA becomes IMHO.1d charts for stamp and gox show that it flipped.
don't want to spread FUD, just want hear your opinions.
Indeed, there are a number of people here who argue that BTC is too new/volatile for TA and that fundamentals are a better guide.
NB I've only been trading since the beginning of the year although I've been aware of BTC since 2011 (I just stupidly didn't invest) - so what do I know
November 20, 2013, 03:12:57 AM
Yes, I agree. In my opinion, this kind of dump could be explained by one of the follows
1) failed manipulation
2) desperate for cash in urgent (doubt it due to the withdraw problem there)
3) insider trading (I don't know which news can dramatically crash BTC market now)
4) stolen BTCs (I heard Gox needs identification?)
5) arbitrage (are there some big buys that time in other exchanges?)
6) ... just crazy.
Any more explanations?
7) Someone who missed a chance to sell at a profit after the April correction, and thinks it is happening again and panics.
8 ) Manipulation that didn't fail, causes doubt about the market, follows up with more dumps, waits for full on panic.
November 20, 2013, 03:11:36 AM
Withdrew btc from Gox an hour ago and still not showing on the block chain. Here we go again, more gox-games.
sorry to hear that, waited for a withdrawal more than 24h some time ago. 
perhaps you can post here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324918.140
won't make your coins show up faster, but at least more users are informed this way
Cheers mate, I've posted up on it.
November 20, 2013, 03:11:13 AM
Right... And as soon as those people who bought the coin for 500-1000-10000 whatever don't get 501-1001-10001 in return after X time then what happens? You see again, the system needs new $$ to operate.
Yes, and the amount of interest drummed up in the last few days has assured that many people are trying to get money in. They may wait to see where we land, but everyone knows we will be back up to $900+ eventually. It would be awesome to consolidate for a few weeks, but I doubt we will be so lucky. You are new, listen to the likes of Nemesis. Not Blitz, he is not so bright with his "2011 all over" talk. Everything is crazy bullish right now. This is the best buying opportunity we will have for quite a while. Watch closely if you are waiting for a bottom, they happen fast and are gone. It may take a few days to sort this correction out, but it will be history soon enough. If I had any more fiat handy, I would be getting it ready to spend, alas I spent the last little bit I had at $180 after the crash from $233. At least I still have some $2 coins
Seriously though, be careful, what you want is more BTC, not more fiat. Don't miss the boat because you are too bearish.It is late and my apologies if I sound over-all bearish - I am but momentarily a bear. Crypto currencies are the future of commerce, that is clear, for many technical reasons. The question I wrestle with is will it be BTC in which the value of that technology will be stored?
November 20, 2013, 03:05:26 AM
Well the only reason i can think of why someone would try to sell BTC10k around midnight US east coast time (and 0500 - 0600 in Europe) is to manipulate the market. Think we can all agree that if he wanted to cash out he could slowly sell of in smaller chunks and get MUCH more $ out. The sell brought gox down from 590 to 500 and subsequently to 475 on lower volume following up. If the goal was to induce panic so the whale could reenter at lower position think it's safe to say that so far he failed as the market held out pretty reasonably so far, and i feel will recover soon. Now if Gox had 70% of the market as in April this would've been much uglier. So unless the price drops down to $400s that manipulation stunt will cause our whale A LOT of $, and hopefully will deter other a$$holes from trying to manipulate the market (and we can get back to a more natural mass panic snow ball effects instead of one person instigating the avalanche) just my 2c
Yes, I agree. In my opinion, this kind of dump could be explained by one of the follows
1) failed manipulation
2) desperate for cash in urgent (doubt it due to the withdraw problem there)
3) insider trading (I don't know which news can dramatically crash BTC market now)
4) stolen BTCs (I heard Gox needs identification?)
5) arbitrage (are there some big buys that time in other exchanges?)
6) ... just crazy.
Any more explanations?
November 20, 2013, 03:05:20 AM
Withdrew btc from Gox an hour ago and still not showing on the block chain. Here we go again, more gox-games.
sorry to hear that, waited for a withdrawal more than 24h some time ago. perhaps you can post here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324918.140
won't make your coins show up faster, but at least more users are informed this way
November 20, 2013, 03:02:17 AM
Right... And as soon as those people who bought the coin for 500-1000-10000 whatever don't get 501-1001-10001 in return after X time then what happens? You see again, the system needs new $$ to operate.
Yes, and the amount of interest drummed up in the last few days has assured that many people are trying to get money in. They may wait to see where we land, but everyone knows we will be back up to $900+ eventually. It would be awesome to consolidate for a few weeks, but I doubt we will be so lucky. You are new, listen to the likes of Nemesis. Not Blitz, he is not so bright with his "2011 all over" talk. Everything is crazy bullish right now. This is the best buying opportunity we will have for quite a while. Watch closely if you are waiting for a bottom, they happen fast and are gone. It may take a few days to sort this correction out, but it will be history soon enough. If I had any more fiat handy, I would be getting it ready to spend, alas I spent the last little bit I had at $180 after the crash from $233. At least I still have some $2 coins
Seriously though, be careful, what you want is more BTC, not more fiat. Don't miss the boat because you are too bearish. 
November 20, 2013, 03:01:28 AM
November 20, 2013, 02:59:52 AM
Withdrew btc from Gox an hour ago and still not showing on the block chain. Here we go again, more gox-games.
November 20, 2013, 02:59:49 AM
It's still trading at these prices, though. They volume may be "fake", but not the price.
I'm not saying the volume is faked, because I really have no idea, but couldn't a big player use the lack of trading fees to their advantage by setting up big sell walls, buying them out, and creating the illusion of incredible buying pressure at no cost? Or vice versa, I suppose.
Someone gets it!
So, while the manipulators were hard at work at Gox, why did they not paint red tape in China, creating the illusion of incredible selling pressure? That would have helped drop the price quite a bit more. It could be done, but how much is it actually done? All we can do is speculate, and speculation by very nature is wrong at least as much as it is right.
This last sell off was not market manipulation nor was it intended to drive prices down to buy the dip... It was stated earlier that the gox errors were due to a fail-safe put in place to protect against large dumps. What this last day or two represents is an actual transfer of major btc holdings to fiat as large holders sold into the demand built up over the last week.
Let me put it this way. In a market in which holding is more profitable than shorting, driving price up significantly requires actual people buying into the market, which means it requires a lot of capital $$. Driving price down however, requires dumping a "few" (what were once very cheap and plentiful) coins into the market.
Ask yourselves, how can it be that BTC increases in value? It is none other than more people ($$) entering the system.
For BTC prices to increases further, a lot of early adopters (holding with 2 digits cost BTCs) have to sell out their holdings. If they don't sell now, they will sell at $1000, $2000, ... eventually. Therefore, dumping actually means coins exchanged from people buying them at low price to those buying them high. Then the average cost of coins increases significantly, and that means we can expect stable increase to next height.
What?
It makes perfect sense. Coins that could have been acquired for much less, who knows maybe even pre 2013 prices, are sold for a handsome profit. Those coins now have a burden at the new purchase price. They are no longer $10 coins, they are $500 coins.
Right... And as soon as those people who bought the coin for 500-1000-10000 whatever don't get 501-1001-10001 in return after X time then what happens? You see again, the system needs new $$ to operate.
For trading, since BTC market is 24/7, it is better to rely on bot softwares. Otherwise, it's not worth sacrificing our life on it.
Agreed
November 20, 2013, 02:57:33 AM
It's still trading at these prices, though. They volume may be "fake", but not the price.
I'm not saying the volume is faked, because I really have no idea, but couldn't a big player use the lack of trading fees to their advantage by setting up big sell walls, buying them out, and creating the illusion of incredible buying pressure at no cost? Or vice versa, I suppose.
Someone gets it!
So, while the manipulators were hard at work at Gox, why did they not paint red tape in China, creating the illusion of incredible selling pressure? That would have helped drop the price quite a bit more. It could be done, but how much is it actually done? All we can do is speculate, and speculation by very nature is wrong at least as much as it is right.
This last sell off was not market manipulation nor was it intended to drive prices down to buy the dip... It was stated earlier that the gox errors were due to a fail-safe put in place to protect against large dumps. What this last day or two represents is an actual transfer of major btc holdings to fiat as large holders sold into the demand built up over the last week.
Let me put it this way. In a market in which holding is more profitable than shorting, driving price up significantly requires actual people buying into the market, which means it requires a lot of capital $$. Driving price down however, requires dumping a "few" (what were once very cheap and plentiful) coins into the market.
Ask yourselves, how can it be that BTC increases in value? It is none other than more people ($$) entering the system.
For BTC prices to increases further, a lot of early adopters (holding with 2 digits cost BTCs) have to sell out their holdings. If they don't sell now, they will sell at $1000, $2000, ... eventually. Therefore, dumping actually means coins exchanged from people buying them at low price to those buying them high. Then the average cost of coins increases significantly, and that means we can expect stable increase to next height.
What?
It makes perfect sense. Coins that could have been acquired for much less, who knows maybe even pre 2013 prices, are sold for a handsome profit. Those coins now have a burden at the new purchase price. They are no longer $10 coins, they are $500 coins.
Right... And as soon as those people who bought the coin for 500-1000-10000 whatever don't get 501-1001-10001 in return after X time then what happens? You see again, the system needs new $$ to operate.
For trading, since BTC market is 24/7, it is better to rely on bot softwares. Otherwise, it's not worth sacrificing our life on it.
November 20, 2013, 02:57:03 AM
Well the only reason i can think of why someone would try to sell BTC10k around midnight US east coast time (and 0500 - 0600 in Europe) is to manipulate the market. Think we can all agree that if he wanted to cash out he could slowly sell of in smaller chunks and get MUCH more $ out. The sell brought gox down from 590 to 500 and subsequently to 475 on lower volume following up. If the goal was to induce panic so the whale could reenter at lower position think it's safe to say that so far he failed as the market held out pretty reasonably so far, and i feel will recover soon. Now if Gox had 70% of the market as in April this would've been much uglier. So unless the price drops down to $400s that manipulation stunt will cause our whale A LOT of $, and hopefully will deter other a$$holes from trying to manipulate the market (and we can get back to a more natural mass panic snow ball effects instead of one person instigating the avalanche) just my 2c
November 20, 2013, 02:55:19 AM
noob question: how important is parabolic sar as an indicator?
1d charts for stamp and gox show that it flipped.
don't want to spread FUD, just want hear your opinions.
1d charts for stamp and gox show that it flipped.
don't want to spread FUD, just want hear your opinions.
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