If your libertarian romantic ever plays out I rather think we are facing the extinction of the human race.
Nah, just the part that should never have existed in the first place.
So how many chickens do you own?
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 32566. (Read 26471070 times)
July 21, 2013, 07:39:03 AM
Nah, just the part that should never have existed in the first place.
So how many chickens do you own?
July 21, 2013, 07:34:33 AM
If your libertarian romantic ever plays out I rather think we are facing the extinction of the human race.
Nah, just the part that should never have existed in the first place.
July 21, 2013, 07:31:48 AM
If your libertarian romantic ever plays out I rather think we are facing the extinction of the human race.
Why would rejecting institutionalised violence cause the extinction of the human race? Are peaceful people incapable of functioning without being threatened from day to day?
Institutional violence is just a result of urbanization, the entire population is urbanized, and dependent of the financial system to keep them from dying from starvation.
IF you are serious start a farm.
July 21, 2013, 07:22:15 AM
If your libertarian romantic ever plays out I rather think we are facing the extinction of the human race.
Why would rejecting institutionalised violence cause the extinction of the human race? Are peaceful people incapable of functioning without being threatened from day to day?
July 21, 2013, 07:18:43 AM
...they are buying BTC to transfer and sell ... they still want dollars, they just want to get them out of the country as soon as possible without using suitcases.
...
...
Thanks
love it.Don't get me wrong ... there *ought* to come a time when nobody wants dollars. But when that will be is anyone's guess. TPTB will do everything they can to prop up the house of cards for as long as possible.
For the last ten years Japanese Gov Bonds have traded at ridiculously low yields ( = high price) and many have tried to call the turn and short them, seeing the situation as unsustainable (which it is ultimately). The trade has become known as 'The Widow Maker' due to the number of people who have crashed and burnt trying to call the turn.
Unrealistic and unsustainable valuations can last for a very long time, defying all logic and fundamental analysis.
That said, the moment of truth would appear to be approaching IMO ... just don't bet the house quite yet
One reason you need fiat is to pay off the
While ever there is taxation requested in state fiat, there can be no free market for currency.
However, that doesn't mean that Bitcoin can't thrive. It just means there are reasons why people need state fiat.
July 21, 2013, 07:16:36 AM
Protect yourself and hold as little fiat as you can safely get away with.
This ^^
If not Bitcoin then anything inflation proof will do as a way to store money, even things like collecting antiques
We are in a deflationary phase now actually.
You start buying when blood is running in the streets?
July 21, 2013, 07:15:43 AM
The governments have made a trap for themselves by bailing out the banks, the banks have them over a barrel and they have no way out now. If they stop QE and bank bailouts then the banks pull the rug out from under the economy and it collapses. If they don't stop QE and bailouts then the population become so impoverished, desperate and angry that the result will eventually be a huge angry mob turning up at Parliament to lynch the lot of them.
What the governments should have done was to seize all the assets of the failing banks, jail those responsible and then compensate the people who had money in the banks. That of course would have been quite a blow to the economy but at least the total cost would have been finite, and possible to pay off and recover from eventually. Instead because the government and the banks are the same thing they chose the route of bailing out the banks, now they're desperately scrabbling for money to fill this bottomless money pit, a task that is impossible. The way that they've responded to this situation means that whatever they do the economy is now doomed.
What the governments should have done was to seize all the assets of the failing banks, jail those responsible and then compensate the people who had money in the banks. That of course would have been quite a blow to the economy but at least the total cost would have been finite, and possible to pay off and recover from eventually. Instead because the government and the banks are the same thing they chose the route of bailing out the banks, now they're desperately scrabbling for money to fill this bottomless money pit, a task that is impossible. The way that they've responded to this situation means that whatever they do the economy is now doomed.
I have a feeling that will still happen...
Regarding getting out of fiat. We are not going to collapse real soon (relatively speaking). Silver and Gold at these prices is insurance as is BTC. But having some food and water for you and your family AND neighbors is going to be the smart move if the Shit hits the fan. I just hope these evil leaders don't lead us into another war...
We still have time to let BTC correct for a few months and then move fiat into it... (I hope).
July 21, 2013, 07:07:42 AM
Protect yourself and hold as little fiat as you can safely get away with.
This ^^
If not Bitcoin then anything inflation proof will do as a way to store money, even things like collecting antiques
We are in a deflationary phase now actually.
You start buying when blood is running in the streets?
I'll buy when I think I can sell for more than 2% profit within 24 hours. (With relative certainty)
July 21, 2013, 07:01:14 AM
July 21, 2013, 06:58:20 AM
Protect yourself and hold as little fiat as you can safely get away with.
This ^^
If not Bitcoin then anything inflation proof will do as a way to store money, even things like collecting antiques
We are in a deflationary phase now actually.
You start buying when blood is running in the streets?
July 21, 2013, 06:57:40 AM
Protect yourself and hold as little fiat as you can safely get away with.
This ^^
If not Bitcoin then anything inflation proof will do as a way to store money, even things like collecting antiques
I'm not entirely sure how Bitcoin will help in that post-apocalyptic world. And as far as doomed economy? Sure, but when? I mean, i'm not quitting smoking anyhow.
July 21, 2013, 06:54:29 AM
Protect yourself and hold as little fiat as you can safely get away with.
This ^^
If not Bitcoin then anything inflation proof will do as a way to store money, even things like collecting antiques
We are in a deflationary phase now actually.
July 21, 2013, 06:51:55 AM
Protect yourself and hold as little fiat as you can safely get away with.
This ^^
If not Bitcoin then anything inflation proof will do as a way to store money, even things like collecting antiques
July 21, 2013, 06:49:17 AM
The governments have made a trap for themselves by bailing out the banks, the banks have them over a barrel and they have no way out now. If they stop QE and bank bailouts then the banks pull the rug out from under the economy and it collapses. If they don't stop QE and bailouts then the population become so impoverished, desperate and angry that the result will eventually be a huge angry mob turning up at Parliament to lynch the lot of them.
What the governments should have done was to seize all the assets of the failing banks, jail those responsible and then compensate the people who had money in the banks. That of course would have been quite a blow to the economy but at least the total cost would have been finite, and possible to pay off and recover from eventually. Instead because the government and the banks are the same thing they chose the route of bailing out the banks, now they're desperately scrabbling for money to fill this bottomless money pit, a task that is impossible. The way that they've responded to this situation means that whatever they do the economy is now doomed.
What the governments should have done was to seize all the assets of the failing banks, jail those responsible and then compensate the people who had money in the banks. That of course would have been quite a blow to the economy but at least the total cost would have been finite, and possible to pay off and recover from eventually. Instead because the government and the banks are the same thing they chose the route of bailing out the banks, now they're desperately scrabbling for money to fill this bottomless money pit, a task that is impossible. The way that they've responded to this situation means that whatever they do the economy is now doomed.
July 21, 2013, 06:45:57 AM
Protect yourself and hold as little fiat as you can safely get away with.
July 21, 2013, 06:38:46 AM
...It's about having good money. And by good I mean: scarce, easily transferrable, fungible, easily auditable, accessible to anyone, ownable (deny access to others). Once you have that the economy (= the people) will thrive and prosper because the market can do its thing without money injections bloating it up in various places and distorting price signals.
I just wonder if the market can *still* do its thing without "monetary injections." It hasn't lived a"natural" lifestyle for so long, shooting meth to wake up, dope to get through the day & horse tranqs to fall asleep -- i doubt it could get clean without barfing all over the place, throwing temper tantrums & cleaning out my wallet for "just one more fix." What if the best we could look forward to is a series of methadone clinics, AA meetings & ugly relapses? "If you gonna be like this, might as well get back on the stuff, Lee."
You have to watch some of Max Keisser regarding "quantitative easing". The short answer "they" we can't stop. The debt has grown so large and once we slow the printing of money we can no longer pay for the debt as the interest rates will move up. QE will continue until things pop. (We have a bond bubble as well.) Interest rates are rising anyway. Seriously, it is going to get interesting, very interesting. Talk about the worlds largest social experiment, I say the money one ends as the others have (Boom).
Speaking of which, here is his latest episode - A GREAT ONE - on... Quantitative Easing. Coincidence?
(Worth 2 watches.)
http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episode-472-max-keiser-217/
Quote
In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert ask whether or not it will ever be possible to unwind quantitative easing as the parallel universe it has created sucks out interest payments and central bankers’ brain cells. They discuss the latest in a long line of market rigging - this time the traders who allegedly rigged QE. In the second half, Max talks to Pete Comley, author of Inflation Tax, about inflation, how government regulated prices are rising the fastest, and the pound sterling’s century-long decline. Comley also asks where are the protests in the UK against the 11 percent theft of savings by quantitative easing?
Another thing that people don't seem to understand is that QE is a very effective way to tax the population without them realising it, they don't have to be sent a bill or made aware of it at all.
Let's take the example of the UK economy, for no other reason than that's where I live. Suppose the real total wealth of the country and the total amount of Sterling in existence is £1trillion, and that it's divided equally between the government and us the long suffering population. Next the government prints another £1trillion of fiat and keeps it. There hasn't been another £1trillion of wealth generated to justify that so the only thing that can happen is for the value of Sterling to halve. Now two things have happened, the first is that rather than having £500,000,000 of wealth the population only have half of that, they might have the same amount of bank notes but they can only buy half as much with them. The government has £1,500,000,000 in bank notes now, they too may only have half the value they did but they've effectively arranged it so that rather than the government and the people having a 50:50 share in the unchanged real total wealth of the country it's now 75:25, and nobody has noticed. Obviously these are fictitious numbers but that's not the point.
Yeah and I often wondered why the inflation rate wasn't rocketing (though it is still going up.) So obvious to me now that the Big banks are not sharing in their coming into money. Max talks about this in this and other episodes. And the terrible part (or a terrible part) is that they are causing the price of assets (stocks, homes in some cases and basically where ever they put their money) to artificially go up in their "asset investing" program (The rich get richer and we are making the payments). Instead of we the people getting the money, they are keeping the vast majority in their circles. But what happens when they stop this? Those asset prices will plummet and we are getting there. (Must listen to the show I linked.)
July 21, 2013, 06:32:46 AM
...It's about having good money. And by good I mean: scarce, easily transferrable, fungible, easily auditable, accessible to anyone, ownable (deny access to others). Once you have that the economy (= the people) will thrive and prosper because the market can do its thing without money injections bloating it up in various places and distorting price signals.
I just wonder if the market can *still* do its thing without "monetary injections." It hasn't lived a"natural" lifestyle for so long, shooting meth to wake up, dope to get through the day & horse tranqs to fall asleep -- i doubt it could get clean without barfing all over the place, throwing temper tantrums & cleaning out my wallet for "just one more fix." What if the best we could look forward to is a series of methadone clinics, AA meetings & ugly relapses? "If you gonna be like this, might as well get back on the stuff, Lee."
The economy is a swarm of entities. You can talk about it like it was one organism, which is true to an extent, but on the other hand if parts of that swarm fail, it doesn't mean the whole thing dies.
If you use the swarm ro model economy, i suppose you're right, though the swarm doesn't begin to imply the interconnectedness of real economy. More like a complex ecosystem, taking millennia to emerge & something as inconsequential as a breeding pair of ship's rats to destroy. Oh, the rats die off too once the snacks are gone
Quote
Parts of the economy will die a horrible death and/or suffer severe withdrawal symptoms. Guess which parts: the ineffective ones that had been regularly injected before. The party will be over for those guys, their confidence dwindling and being replaced by suicidal wishes and hate. Some will come around, though.
Possibly. Most likely not, though. "Artificial" [quotes intentional] economy was needed to support "artificial" everything -- population, for one. There's plenty of talk about unsustainability of economy predicated on exponential growth, but that's the required *minimum* to keep up with exponential population growth. I'm sticking with the junky model.
Quote
Other parts of the economy that had previously been suppressed and kept from fair market access are going to thrive and steal the show of the fake boys on coke in their unreasonably big cars.
Which parts are you thinking of?
Quote
The cancer will die off.
If it's cancer, it metastasized a long time ago -- chemo will kill the patient
July 21, 2013, 06:26:19 AM
...It's about having good money. And by good I mean: scarce, easily transferrable, fungible, easily auditable, accessible to anyone, ownable (deny access to others). Once you have that the economy (= the people) will thrive and prosper because the market can do its thing without money injections bloating it up in various places and distorting price signals.
I just wonder if the market can *still* do its thing without "monetary injections." It hasn't lived a"natural" lifestyle for so long, shooting meth to wake up, dope to get through the day & horse tranqs to fall asleep -- i doubt it could get clean without barfing all over the place, throwing temper tantrums & cleaning out my wallet for "just one more fix." What if the best we could look forward to is a series of methadone clinics, AA meetings & ugly relapses? "If you gonna be like this, might as well get back on the stuff, Lee."
You have to watch some of Max Keisser regarding "quantitative easing". The short answer "they" we can't stop. The debt has grown so large and once we slow the printing of money we can no longer pay for the debt as the interest rates will move up. QE will continue until things pop. (We have a bond bubble as well.) Interest rates are rising anyway. Seriously, it is going to get interesting, very interesting. Talk about the worlds largest social experiment, I say the money one ends as the others have (Boom).
Speaking of which, here is his latest episode - A GREAT ONE - on... Quantitative Easing. Coincidence?
(Worth 2 watches.)
http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episode-472-max-keiser-217/
Quote
In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert ask whether or not it will ever be possible to unwind quantitative easing as the parallel universe it has created sucks out interest payments and central bankers’ brain cells. They discuss the latest in a long line of market rigging - this time the traders who allegedly rigged QE. In the second half, Max talks to Pete Comley, author of Inflation Tax, about inflation, how government regulated prices are rising the fastest, and the pound sterling’s century-long decline. Comley also asks where are the protests in the UK against the 11 percent theft of savings by quantitative easing?
Another thing that people don't seem to understand is that QE is a very effective way to tax the population without them realising it, they don't have to be sent a bill or made aware of it at all.
Let's take the example of the UK economy, for no other reason than that's where I live. Suppose the real total wealth of the country and the total amount of Sterling in existence is £1trillion, and that it's divided equally between the government and us the long suffering population. Next the government prints another £1trillion of fiat and keeps it. There hasn't been another £1trillion of wealth generated to justify that so the only thing that can happen is for the value of Sterling to halve. Now two things have happened, the first is that rather than having £500,000,000,000 of wealth the population only have half of that, they might have the same amount of bank notes but they can only buy half as much with them. The government has £1,500,000,000,000 in bank notes now, they too may only have half the value they did but they've effectively arranged it so that rather than the government and the people having a 50:50 share in the unchanged real total wealth of the country it's now 75:25, and nobody has noticed. Obviously these are fictitious numbers but that's not the point.
July 21, 2013, 06:18:59 AM
oh yes. crackheads in the roach motel.
here's another opinion (the same one essentially) by Detlev Schlichter:
Quote from: http://detlevschlichter.com/2013/07/forward-guidance-nonsense-central-bankers-have-no-choice/
After two decades of serial bubble-blowing, the world’s central bankers have maneuvered themselves into a corner. They created a monster in the form of an unbalanced global economy and a bloated financial system, laden with debt, addicted to cheap money, and in need of constantly rising asset prices. Now the monster is in charge and the central bankers dare not stop feeding it.
July 21, 2013, 06:09:08 AM
...It's about having good money. And by good I mean: scarce, easily transferrable, fungible, easily auditable, accessible to anyone, ownable (deny access to others). Once you have that the economy (= the people) will thrive and prosper because the market can do its thing without money injections bloating it up in various places and distorting price signals.
I just wonder if the market can *still* do its thing without "monetary injections." It hasn't lived a"natural" lifestyle for so long, shooting meth to wake up, dope to get through the day & horse tranqs to fall asleep -- i doubt it could get clean without barfing all over the place, throwing temper tantrums & cleaning out my wallet for "just one more fix." What if the best we could look forward to is a series of methadone clinics, AA meetings & ugly relapses? "If you gonna be like this, might as well get back on the stuff, Lee."
You have to watch some of Max Keisser regarding "quantitative easing". The short answer "they" we can't stop. The debt has grown so large and once we slow the printing of money we can no longer pay for the debt as the interest rates will move up. QE will continue until things pop. (We have a bond bubble as well.) Interest rates are rising anyway. Seriously, it is going to get interesting, very interesting. Talk about the worlds largest social experiment, I say the money one ends as the others have (Boom).
Speaking of which, here is his latest episode - A GREAT ONE - on... Quantitative Easing. Coincidence?
(Worth 2 watches.)
http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episode-472-max-keiser-217/
Quote
In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert ask whether or not it will ever be possible to unwind quantitative easing as the parallel universe it has created sucks out interest payments and central bankers’ brain cells. They discuss the latest in a long line of market rigging - this time the traders who allegedly rigged QE. In the second half, Max talks to Pete Comley, author of Inflation Tax, about inflation, how government regulated prices are rising the fastest, and the pound sterling’s century-long decline. Comley also asks where are the protests in the UK against the 11 percent theft of savings by quantitative easing?
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