*cricket*
That's the sound of the hype slowly slipping away.
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 32568. (Read 26471070 times)
July 20, 2013, 11:03:30 PM
You hear that?
*cricket*
That's the sound of the hype slowly slipping away.
*cricket*
That's the sound of the hype slowly slipping away.
July 20, 2013, 11:02:37 PM
...
Truth is though, btc is not needed at all for this whole arbitrage. It can simply be done with CC's and bank acc's from Arg and one other country. This is a USD / CC forced policy arbitrage, and not something that sprung out of bitcoin. No one in Argentina can buy BTC with pesos.
Truth is though, btc is not needed at all for this whole arbitrage. It can simply be done with CC's and bank acc's from Arg and one other country. This is a USD / CC forced policy arbitrage, and not something that sprung out of bitcoin. No one in Argentina can buy BTC with pesos.
Other than taking BTC across the border is likely way simpler than USD.
July 20, 2013, 11:01:19 PM
July 20, 2013, 10:01:09 PM
July 20, 2013, 09:37:31 PM
Why is the price of BTC 30%-40% higher (or something like that) in Argentina? Probably partly for the reason you "stated". You are seeing a free market go for what it knows. Also, there are plenty of freedom fighters our there (not to mention some of whom are governments) that can get on a plane with an address full of BTC and go there and either sell them, give them away or some combination of the two...
BTC is revolutionary, we shouldn't lose sight of it. We are not so much talking about a currency competitor. We are talking about a currency that is stateless at a time when corrupt states (most all) are collapsing around the world. Chew on that.
BTC is revolutionary, we shouldn't lose sight of it. We are not so much talking about a currency competitor. We are talking about a currency that is stateless at a time when corrupt states (most all) are collapsing around the world. Chew on that.
fuck yeah!
As I understand it, and I am very happy to be corrected, the price differential is Argentina is relative to the price in Uruguay. Basically due to rampant devaluation of fiat people are trying to move their cash out of there and BTC is proving a useful medium. Uruguay is the playground for wealthy Argentinians, so it is the obvious place for them to move money too. So they are paying over the odds to buy BTC in Argentina and then being 'skimmed' at the other end when converting them back into dollars. It's a classic opportunistic arbitrage, but apparently a price worth paying to move money out of the country. I don't believe it has a net impact on demand, as they are buying BTC to transfer and sell ... they still want dollars, they just want to get them out of the country as soon as possible without using suitcases.
That they are using BTC for this is a double edged sword in terms of utility vs potential clampdown.
The opening salvos are definitely being fired in this case and it will be interesting to see how it evolves.
Argentine here again.
Yes and no. While what you say is technically true and possible, this is not what's really happening.
There is a very specific part of the equation which you don't know about. it's as follows:
We have official 1 USD = 5.2 Pesos and black market 1 USD = 8 Pesos. Credit cards are forced by Gov' to use official rate + 20%.
So:
(lets take a 100 usd btc for simplicity)
1. I buy 10 BTC with Credit Card for ~1000 USD = ~6000 Pesos ( official rate + 20% ) (and yes, buying BTC with CC is hard to come by...)
2. Sell my BTC for USD, withdraw to non-argentine CC or bank account.
3. Travel abroad ( Uruguay or any other place ). Take USD out of atm.
4. Sell 1000 USD in black market for 8000 Pesos. Profit. Start over.
Truth is though, btc is not needed at all for this whole arbitrage. It can simply be done with CC's and bank acc's from Arg and one other country. This is a USD / CC forced policy arbitrage, and not something that sprung out of bitcoin. No one in Argentina can buy BTC with pesos.
July 20, 2013, 09:01:09 PM
July 20, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
well, I'm sure if they see bitcoin appreciation outpacing USD inflation, they'll eventually tend to hold bitcoins over dollars
July 20, 2013, 08:53:27 PM
What is shows is that people will do anything to get that mighty USD. Don't confuse that with love of Bitcoin...it's just another bridge to something real, secure and trusted. Oh yeah...King Dollar. 
Confuse?
I got to call bullshit when I see it and well... "Bullshit".
It's one thing to be a short to mid term bear (and ride that wave as it agrees with your overall opinion), but it's another to distort and try to hijack and overall great picture.
No matter what currency is king (and the dollar will continue for a while longer), the ability to have a tool that allows you to move in and out of it regardless of governments wishes (regulations, power, etc.) is a power we have not experienced (that I am aware of) before. Gold and Silver are too easily stopped (due to obvious reasons). To have a digital version though, is another story.
So, ride the bear wave all you want but don't stretch that same bullshit to a revolutionary technology.
Don't cloud what is so clear.
I have a feeling when BTC once again does clearly turn around and become huge, you will not change your opinion what so ever.
It's these moments that you so poorly hide that show your true colors...
If I'm wrong... oops.
You can paint whatever delusions you want...they are using BTC to get USD. Period. They would use bear Sh%t, if anyone would accept if for USD but that doesn't mean they like bear sh%t. The technology is revolutionary sure but there is plenty of it out there and much more to come. Maybe BTC will be one of many to survive, maybe it won't. I could care less because what I know is the delusions of you permabulls that Bitcoin is like the "internet" and a "one world currency is imminent" are all fantasies created in your own minds.
It's crypto that is like the "internet". Bitcoin is just a single brand, like Netscape or maybe AOL. Who knows, who cares.
Crypto is here to stay, no denying that and I love it, especially under regulations. But Bitcoin is just another brand that can fade like any other brand. This is why I love Ripple. It's about letting people engage in commerce with ANY currency, not trying to force just one currency down everyones throat. But I digress...
July 20, 2013, 08:36:18 PM
...they are buying BTC to transfer and sell ... they still want dollars, they just want to get them out of the country as soon as possible without using suitcases.
...
...
Thanks
love it.Don't get me wrong ... there *ought* to come a time when nobody wants dollars. But when that will be is anyone's guess. TPTB will do everything they can to prop up the house of cards for as long as possible.
For the last ten years Japanese Gov Bonds have traded at ridiculously low yields ( = high price) and many have tried to call the turn and short them, seeing the situation as unsustainable (which it is ultimately). The trade has become known as 'The Widow Maker' due to the number of people who have crashed and burnt trying to call the turn.
Unrealistic and unsustainable valuations can last for a very long time, defying all logic and fundamental analysis.
That said, the moment of truth would appear to be approaching IMO ... just don't bet the house quite yet
I somewhat learned that lesson buying puts on Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae (in around 2003 if memory is right). I just didn't think they would float much longer. Man, the help they received...
You are right - NEVER underestimate the power of these these "people". You can see through the obscurity a bit of what they do, but you can't stop them. (You can only hope to go around them and weaken them.)
And these same "people", unfortunately, have a very powerful say regarding what militaries do (though I don't think as much as they would hope for.)
We are certainly getting closer to their apocalypse (Us uncovering the truth). But how long will it go on?
July 20, 2013, 08:31:13 PM
What is shows is that people will do anything to get that mighty USD. Don't confuse that with love of Bitcoin...it's just another bridge to something real, secure and trusted. Oh yeah...King Dollar.
Confuse?
I got to call bullshit when I see it and well... "Bullshit".
It's one thing to be a short to mid term bear (and ride that wave as it agrees with your overall opinion), but it's another to distort and try to hijack and overall great picture.
No matter what currency is king (and the dollar will continue for a while longer), the ability to have a tool that allows you to move in and out of it regardless of governments wishes (regulations, power, etc.) is a power we have not experienced (that I am aware of) before. Gold and Silver are too easily stopped (due to obvious reasons). To have a digital version though, is another story.
So, ride the bear wave all you want but don't stretch that same bullshit to a revolutionary technology.
Don't cloud what is so clear.
I have a feeling when BTC once again does clearly turn around and become huge, you will not change your opinion what so ever.
It's these moments that you so poorly hide that show your true colors...
If I'm wrong... oops.
July 20, 2013, 08:25:25 PM
July 20, 2013, 08:25:05 PM
...they are buying BTC to transfer and sell ... they still want dollars, they just want to get them out of the country as soon as possible without using suitcases.
...
...
Thanks
love it.Don't get me wrong ... there *ought* to come a time when nobody wants dollars. But when that will be is anyone's guess. TPTB will do everything they can to prop up the house of cards for as long as possible.
For the last ten years Japanese Gov Bonds have traded at ridiculously low yields ( = high price) and many have tried to call the turn and short them, seeing the situation as unsustainable (which it is ultimately). The trade has become known as 'The Widow Maker' due to the number of people who have crashed and burnt trying to call the turn.
Unrealistic and unsustainable valuations can last for a very long time, defying all logic and fundamental analysis.
That said, the moment of truth would appear to be approaching IMO ... just don't bet the house quite yet
July 20, 2013, 08:04:22 PM
...they are buying BTC to transfer and sell ... they still want dollars, they just want to get them out of the country as soon as possible without using suitcases.
...
...
Thanks
love it. July 20, 2013, 08:01:20 PM
July 20, 2013, 07:39:48 PM
July 20, 2013, 07:24:02 PM
What is shows is that people will do anything to get that mighty USD. Don't confuse that with love of Bitcoin...it's just another bridge to something real, secure and trusted. Oh yeah...King Dollar.
July 20, 2013, 07:20:42 PM
Why is the price of BTC 30%-40% higher (or something like that) in Argentina? Probably partly for the reason you "stated". You are seeing a free market go for what it knows. Also, there are plenty of freedom fighters our there (not to mention some of whom are governments) that can get on a plane with an address full of BTC and go there and either sell them, give them away or some combination of the two...
BTC is revolutionary, we shouldn't lose sight of it. We are not so much talking about a currency competitor. We are talking about a currency that is stateless at a time when corrupt states (most all) are collapsing around the world. Chew on that.
BTC is revolutionary, we shouldn't lose sight of it. We are not so much talking about a currency competitor. We are talking about a currency that is stateless at a time when corrupt states (most all) are collapsing around the world. Chew on that.
fuck yeah!
As I understand it, and I am very happy to be corrected, the price differential is Argentina is relative to the price in Uruguay. Basically due to rampant devaluation of fiat people are trying to move their cash out of there and BTC is proving a useful medium. Uruguay is the playground for wealthy Argentinians, so it is the obvious place for them to move money too. So they are paying over the odds to buy BTC in Argentina and then being 'skimmed' at the other end when converting them back into dollars. It's a classic opportunistic arbitrage, but apparently a price worth paying to move money out of the country. I don't believe it has a net impact on demand, as they are buying BTC to transfer and sell ... they still want dollars, they just want to get them out of the country as soon as possible without using suitcases.
That they are using BTC for this is a double edged sword in terms of utility vs potential clampdown.
The opening salvos are definitely being fired in this case and it will be interesting to see how it evolves.
Thanks for that info as I hadn't heard nor thought of that before.
Free market in action and as you said, it is showing us something quite interesting. The "scary" part, is that we are just scratching the surface. Extrapolate that out and things get interesting. (Oh, and we are not even at the Netscape Navigator navigator stage yet, we are at the Mosaic stage
...)Imagine, only 11 million of these "bits" in existence for the world to do with it what it will. (Not counting other crypto-currencies of course.)
MUST MUST LISTEN TO: Your minds will have fun running with this...
Latest Let's Talk Bitcoin: Subvert your government (and a whole lot more): http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TheDailyBitcoinShow/~5/Ol5FMDmh8Ng/101753710-mindtomatter-e25-subvert-your-government.mp3
July 20, 2013, 07:14:45 PM
Damn these whale dumpers. I'm covered in their shit and cannot keep us afloat.
July 20, 2013, 07:01:14 PM
July 20, 2013, 06:37:42 PM
Why is the price of BTC 30%-40% higher (or something like that) in Argentina? Probably partly for the reason you "stated". You are seeing a free market go for what it knows. Also, there are plenty of freedom fighters our there (not to mention some of whom are governments) that can get on a plane with an address full of BTC and go there and either sell them, give them away or some combination of the two...
BTC is revolutionary, we shouldn't lose sight of it. We are not so much talking about a currency competitor. We are talking about a currency that is stateless at a time when corrupt states (most all) are collapsing around the world. Chew on that.
BTC is revolutionary, we shouldn't lose sight of it. We are not so much talking about a currency competitor. We are talking about a currency that is stateless at a time when corrupt states (most all) are collapsing around the world. Chew on that.
fuck yeah!
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