Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking &amp; discussion - page 33282. (Read 26710358 times)

Quote from: Its About Sharing on June 17, 2013, 03:42:43 PM

Not necessarily true ... depends on the net position that Plus500 hold, how much risk they take on their book and how much they hedge on Gox or other exchanges if they are net short. Not sure how they deal with net long unless they are able to borrow BTC to short.

I think their business model has error :-). They do not buy or sell bitcoins. You cannot buy/sell bitcoin at plus500 ... only make CFD.

edit: you can after CFD manipulate price easy (if you have enough resources)

YOU cannot buy or sell Bitcoins with them .. it is all CFDs. That does not mean that THEY do not use BTC to hedge when and where they can, and I would be very surprised if they do not

I'm not sure they can DO HEDGE (they do not have enough bitcoins) ... beacause they do not know how much I'll short at their platform (and they need 4x more ... if I'll try short 12M btc then they will need 48M. ... and there are only 12M existing ).

The fact is that shorting with leverage crap is a motherfucking scam. It's just gambling in its purest form, but they are gambling with customers money - if they lose big time and go bust, it's their customers who are left holding the bag. The managers who drive the business are just swimming in money pools and are the same scammers doing the very same tricks that trigger the financial crisis in the modern world.

Did you know that plus500 is owned by UK banks, did you?

I only know, it is easy to extract $$$ from plus500 :-) (they do not understand what is bitcoin) Nothing illegal they make bet I'll accept bet ... I'll win bet. Theirs company go down. Somebody makes mistake.

betaknight

newbie

Activity: 39

Merit: 0

Well, you guys might be right that we move up. But here is another bad divergence(s).

https://twitter.com/AlbertarocksTA/status/346698741585170432/photo/1

duly noted but vetoing Cheesy

i'm trusting a read on the flow of the order book. The action is painting a picture of a reversal in recent pessimism. Still a bull(shit?) market haha

Odalv

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Its About Sharing on June 17, 2013, 03:42:43 PM

Well, you guys might be right that we move up. But here is another bad divergence(s).

https://twitter.com/AlbertarocksTA/status/346698741585170432/photo/1

so then we are going down (maybe to single number or even negative one :-) ) .. who cares ? (not me .. using FA)

Rampion

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

Quote from: Odalv on June 17, 2013, 03:42:17 PM

Quote from: phoenix1 on June 17, 2013, 03:31:28 PM

Quote from: phoenix1 on June 17, 2013, 03:31:28 PM

Not necessarily true ... depends on the net position that Plus500 hold, how much risk they take on their book and how much they hedge on Gox or other exchanges if they are net short. Not sure how they deal with net long unless they are able to borrow BTC to short.

I think their business model has error :-). They do not buy or sell bitcoins. You cannot buy/sell bitcoin at plus500 ... only make CFD.

edit: you can after CFD manipulate price easy (if you have enough resources)

YOU cannot buy or sell Bitcoins with them .. it is all CFDs. That does not mean that THEY do not use BTC to hedge when and where they can, and I would be very surprised if they do not

I'm not sure they can DO HEDGE (they do not have enough bitcoins) ... beacause they do not know how much I'll short at their platform (and they need 4x more ... if I'll try short 12M btc then they will need 48M. ... and there are only 12M existing ).

The fact is that shorting with leverage crap is a motherfucking scam. It's just gambling in its purest form, but they are gambling with customers money - if they lose big time and go bust, it's their customers who are left holding the bag. The managers who drive the business are just swimming in money pools and are the same scammers doing the very same tricks that trigger the financial crisis in the modern world.

Did you know that plus500 is owned by UK banks, did you?

Frozenlock

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Windows XP...

Excel...

RUNNNNN! Cheesy

Its About Sharing

legendary

Activity: 1442

Merit: 1000

Antifragile

Well, you guys might be right that we move up. But here is another bad divergence(s).

https://twitter.com/AlbertarocksTA/status/346698741585170432/photo/1

Odalv

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

Quote from: fr33d0miz3r on June 17, 2013, 02:55:51 PM

Not necessarily true ... depends on the net position that Plus500 hold, how much risk they take on their book and how much they hedge on Gox or other exchanges if they are net short. Not sure how they deal with net long unless they are able to borrow BTC to short.

I think their business model has error :-). They do not buy or sell bitcoins. You cannot buy/sell bitcoin at plus500 ... only make CFD.

edit: you can after CFD manipulate price easy (if you have enough resources)

YOU cannot buy or sell Bitcoins with them .. it is all CFDs. That does not mean that THEY do not use BTC to hedge when and where they can, and I would be very surprised if they do not

I'm not sure they can DO HEDGE (they do not have enough bitcoins) ... beacause they do not know how much I'll short at their platform (and they need 4x more ... if I'll try short 12M btc then they will need 48M. ... and there are only 12M existing ).

10c

full member

Activity: 658

Merit: 100

BuyAnyLight - Blockchain LED Marketplace

#include

void main() {

   int oil_pipe;
   unsigned long money;
   int offshore;

   oil_pipe = open("/dev/oil",O_RDONLY,0);
   offshore = open("/dev/cyprus",O_RDWR,0);

   if(offshore==-1) {

   offshore = open("/dev/bitcoin",O_RDWR,0);

   }

   while(1) {

   read(oil_pipe,&money,100000000);
   write(offshore,&money,100000000);

   }

}

like someone said.... most of us are sick in the head..... Shocked

phoenix1

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

Not necessarily true ... depends on the net position that Plus500 hold, how much risk they take on their book and how much they hedge on Gox or other exchanges if they are net short. Not sure how they deal with net long unless they are able to borrow BTC to short.

I think their business model has error :-). They do not buy or sell bitcoins. You cannot buy/sell bitcoin at plus500 ... only make CFD.

edit: you can after CFD manipulate price easy (if you have enough resources)

YOU cannot buy or sell Bitcoins with them .. it is all CFDs. That does not mean that THEY do not use BTC to hedge when and where they can, and I would be very surprised if they do not

EDIT : I specifically asked them about how they hedged their Bitcoin exposure and was told that they could not divulge this information. Seeing as their spread is nearly always exactly centred around the midpoint of the Gox bid/ask, it does not look like they are taking positions and then moving prices accordingly.
Their business model is fine unless all their clients are short and it crashes. Otherwise they can always hedge on a Gox account.

samson

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Activity: 2097

Merit: 1070

Not necessarily true ... depends on the net position that Plus500 hold, how much risk they take on their book and how much they hedge on Gox or other exchanges if they are net short. Not sure how they deal with net long unless they are able to borrow BTC to short.

I think their business model has error :-). They do not buy or sell bitcoins. You cannot buy/sell bitcoin at plus500 ... only make CFD.

edit: you can after CFD manipulate price easy (if you have enough resources)

It's a pity they don't allow people to fund their accounts directly with Bitcoin. I think they would get a lot of new customers doing this.

Odalv

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Odalv on June 17, 2013, 03:18:50 PM

Not necessarily true ... depends on the net position that Plus500 hold, how much risk they take on their book and how much they hedge on Gox or other exchanges if they are net short. Not sure how they deal with net long unless they are able to borrow BTC to short.

I think their business model has error :-). They do not buy or sell bitcoins. You cannot buy/sell bitcoin at plus500 ... only make CFD.

edit: you can after CFD manipulate price easy (if you have enough resources)
edit2: even use leverage 4:1

Chainsaw

hero member

Activity: 625

Merit: 501

x

Quote from: betaknight on June 17, 2013, 03:14:59 PM

Quote from: Odalv on June 17, 2013, 03:11:47 PM

Quote from: betaknight on June 17, 2013, 02:35:23 PM

I've seen enough to pull the triggers, I'm now 100% leveraged long via btc.sx @ an avg of 100.6, with 4 days of funding left as cushion. Targets are in the 104-105.xx's and I'll cut losses if we see 98.xx's again.

game on Cool

Trading with leverage! "Man, I like your balls!"

Is there another way to trade ? Tongue

It would be interesting for whales to pump/dump on MtGox and leverage at http://www.plus500.com/Instruments/BTCUSD 4:1
1. go short CFD at plus500
2. dump at gox
3. take 4x more profit at plus500
4. go long at plus500
5. pump gox
6. take 4x bigger profit at plus500

can get 100:1 at other shops like btc.sx, but slippage and spreads are still an issue.

At plus500 you do not need bitcoin (CFD) ... you sell bitcoins only virtualy (in reality no one is sold .. price at gox is same)

...that's exactly what makes it profitable, and a great example of what will cause the exponential price increase, once the risk/reward balance gets high enough.

An investor makes a bet, then moves the market to make their trade succeed.
This works beautifully until a second, contrarian investor gets the same idea.

...except once someone with that much money gets to this point in the thought process, they're not making that bet.
Quite simply, they're too exposed. Smart money looks for its hedge.

I think far more likely, anyone making high-dollar contract-for-difference bets will also have bitcoins on a market, in order to move into/out of fiat alongside such positions.

phoenix1

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

Not necessarily true ... depends on the net position that Plus500 hold, how much risk they take on their book and how much they hedge on Gox or other exchanges if they are net short. Not sure how they deal with net long unless they are able to borrow BTC to short.

EDIT : As for the leveraged pump or dump strategy, I doubt you would be able to take a big enough position with them for this to work

Odalv

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

Quote from: betaknight on June 17, 2013, 03:14:59 PM

Quote from: Odalv on June 17, 2013, 03:11:47 PM

Quote from: betaknight on June 17, 2013, 02:35:23 PM

I've seen enough to pull the triggers, I'm now 100% leveraged long via btc.sx @ an avg of 100.6, with 4 days of funding left as cushion. Targets are in the 104-105.xx's and I'll cut losses if we see 98.xx's again.

game on Cool

Trading with leverage! "Man, I like your balls!"

Is there another way to trade ? Tongue

It would be interesting for whales to pump/dump on MtGox and leverage at http://www.plus500.com/Instruments/BTCUSD 4:1
1. go short CFD at plus500
2. dump at gox
3. take 4x more profit at plus500
4. go long at plus500
5. pump gox
6. take 4x bigger profit at plus500

can get 100:1 at other shops like btc.sx, but slippage and spreads are still an issue.

At plus500 you do not need bitcoin (CFD) ... you sell bitcoins only virtualy (in reality no one is sold .. price at gox is same)

betaknight

newbie

Activity: 39

Merit: 0

Quote from: Odalv on June 17, 2013, 03:11:47 PM

Quote from: betaknight on June 17, 2013, 02:35:23 PM

I've seen enough to pull the triggers, I'm now 100% leveraged long via btc.sx @ an avg of 100.6, with 4 days of funding left as cushion. Targets are in the 104-105.xx's and I'll cut losses if we see 98.xx's again.

game on Cool

Trading with leverage! "Man, I like your balls!"

Is there another way to trade ? Tongue

It would be interesting for whales to pump/dump on MtGox and leverage at http://www.plus500.com/Instruments/BTCUSD 4:1
1. go short CFD at plus500
2. dump at gox
3. take 4x more profit at plus500
4. go long at plus500
5. pump gox
6. take 4x bigger profit at plus500

can get 100:1 at other shops like btc.sx, but slippage and spreads are still an issue.

betaknight

newbie

Activity: 39

Merit: 0

Quote from: Jozzaboy on June 17, 2013, 03:07:08 PM

Quote from: betaknight on June 17, 2013, 02:35:23 PM

I've seen enough to pull the triggers, I'm now 100% leveraged long via btc.sx @ an avg of 100.6, with 4 days of funding left as cushion. Targets are in the 104-105.xx's and I'll cut losses if we see 98.xx's again.

game on Cool

Trading with leverage! "Man, I like your balls!"

Is there another way to trade ? Tongue

Yeah, the 'All in!'. You don't need that car, savings account, alcohol, retirement account... do you? Wink

haha, "all in" with regards to what I can afford to lose and not have quality of life affected Wink

Odalv

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

Quote from: betaknight on June 17, 2013, 02:35:23 PM

I've seen enough to pull the triggers, I'm now 100% leveraged long via btc.sx @ an avg of 100.6, with 4 days of funding left as cushion. Targets are in the 104-105.xx's and I'll cut losses if we see 98.xx's again.

game on Cool

Trading with leverage! "Man, I like your balls!"

Is there another way to trade ? Tongue

It would be interesting for whales to pump/dump on MtGox and leverage at http://www.plus500.com/Instruments/BTCUSD 4:1
1. go short CFD at plus500
2. dump at gox
3. take 4x more profit at plus500
4. go long at plus500
5. pump gox
6. take 4x bigger profit at plus500

Jozzaboy

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: betaknight on June 17, 2013, 02:35:23 PM

I've seen enough to pull the triggers, I'm now 100% leveraged long via btc.sx @ an avg of 100.6, with 4 days of funding left as cushion. Targets are in the 104-105.xx's and I'll cut losses if we see 98.xx's again.

game on Cool

Trading with leverage! "Man, I like your balls!"

Is there another way to trade ? Tongue

Yeah, the 'All in!'. You don't need that car, savings account, alcohol, retirement account... do you? Wink

phoenix1

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000