Topic: What Is A Social Justice Warrior (SJW)? - page 18. (Read 43299 times)

Did I not use the right words?

Affiliation? Hyper-reactionary movement? Batshit crazy people?

Still no answer to my question from beliathon. I have asked many times, its a pretty clear question, and if you are so knowledgeable about this topic than it should not take more than a couple seconds to reply and think about.
If it is this hard, maybe you should rethink your "movement"

What group? What actions? That sounds like an unfair generalization if I ever heard one.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

+

Social justice warriors are like the hammers of socialism beating society into its warped worldview. This why socialism/marxism/communism/other social justice groups tend to practice similar tactics of obfuscation and conditioning. Dividing people by race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, class, etc is the favorite goal of the Marxist.

If you read Karl Marx's work, he very clearly describes a fracturing process that Marxism creates on society by creating infinite divisions and causing these groups to fight amongst themselves rather than go after their actual oppressors. This is the perfect environment for totalitarianism to thrive. History has shown socialism almost always ends in horrible failure as the targeted economy collapses, the fabric of society is systematically divided, and the people fight each other for the scraps that are left.
When it inevitably it doesn't work out, they just claim it wasn't "pure socialism" and dismiss all responsibility for the part socialism played in the failure.

Socialism is a little bit like santa clause. Everyone thinks it sounds great, but it is mostly believed by gullible children with very little knowledge of the world. Most adults realize santa clause can never be real, and adjust their behavior accordingly, while others scream about how racist/sexist/homophobic you are for not leaving out cookies and milk. You can stomp your feet and meddle with society all you want, it wont make santa real. If you think socialism is great, try talking to some one who lived in the USSR or the former Soviet blocks, see how utopian they think it really is.

Well if anyone here doubted the existence of SJW's then Beliathon basically helped prove the OP's point, the ironic thing is they're pretty sexist because they always paint women as helpless victims and opressed and also constantly attack men ( A lot of them are Misandrists pretending to care about equality ) and will often throw bullshit accusations at them.

I can understand where the term came from, but really these people are from an extremely ridiculous strand of feminism that basically treats all men, particularly white men as the enemy, they have no peaceful objective in mind and simply want to establish a matriarchy.

I still think regardless they should be called either Matriarchs or Misandrists, they're an aboslute insult to classical femnism and leftists everywhere.


Comparing the actions of your group and ideology to Socrates is more insulting to me than anything you've said so far you arrogant fuck.

Socrates.

"Ssealioning" - the act of jumping into a discussion with demands for evidence and answers to questions.

But why is it an awful thing to do? Why do people react so negatively to a request for evidence? Surely a reasoned, rational person would acquiesce to such a statement!

Well, no. And here's why.

Sunk Time
The biggest reason why people hate sealioning is because responding to it is a complete waste of time.

It's an insidious trap. Responding to questions asked reasonably is, of course, a natural thing for people to do. I like to do it myself; educating others is generally pretty entertaining, especially if they are receptive to learning. Dismissing those questions can appear condescending or rude, especially if you actually are condescending or rude.

Of course, these questions are not asked because the person genuinely wants to know. If they did, they would do their own digging based on your statements, and only ask for obscure or difficult-to-discover information. This is the "debate principle"; when you go to a debate, you educate yourself on the topics at hand, and only request evidence when a claim is either quite outlandish or unflinchingly obscure.

No, these questions are asked to make you waste your time. It works, too; I've responded to sealions before, answering all their questions and claims for evidence, only to be greeted by even more willful ignorance. It's a way to force you into responding to questions phrased neutrally but asked in bad faith.

Asking in Bad Faith
So what does asking in bad faith mean?

When you ask a question in bad faith, you are essentially looking for a way to demean, degrade, or otherwise destroy your target. A good example of an obviously bad faith question is the perennial favorite "When did you stop beating your wife?" as it instantly casts doubt upon the person asked the question.

However, it's easy to ask a question in bad faith using reasoned, good faith practices. Neutral phrasing does not always guarantee a question is asked in good faith. This is extremely obvious in documented sealioning; the target responds, only for the questioner to immediately grill them for more information, misinterpret the answer, or dismiss it entirely.

The purpose of sealioning never to actually learn or become more informed. The purpose is to interrogate. Much like actual interrogators, sealioners bombard the target with question after question, digging and digging until the target either says something stupid or is so pissed off that they react in the extreme.

Load The Question Cannons
All of this, of course, relies on asking a lot of questions, often with little-to-no downtime between volleys.

When the target is continually asked questions - especially the same question under a different phrasing, which is very common when sealioning - it's rattling. They have to fight the natural instinct to respond in good faith to neutrally-phrased questions, as answering them will only bring more. It's a forced violation of the empathy that a compassionate person feels towards others, as it pushes them into noticing that their questioners are not particularly interested in the questions themselves.

Compound this with being sealioned but multiple people, as is common on Twitter, and you've got a recipe for a very frustrating and fruitless timeline. If you respond, you are bombarded with even more questions by people who aren't asking to actually be convinced. If you do not respond, you are insulted as somebody who doesn't wish to participate in reasoned discourse, despite the clear and simple fact that such a discourse is not reasonable; it merely has the appearance of rationality.

Lose/Lose
Being sealioned is a lose/lose situation, unfortunately. Much like Global Thermonuclear War, the only winning move is not to play. In this case, block or dismiss sealioners and go about your normal business, letting them vent their frustrations out where you can't see them. It's much healthier for your psyche.

It's unfortunate that we must be suspicious of purportedly honest and neutral questions. Asking questions and being open is key to establishing dialogue and understanding one another. When you are the target of a sealion brigade, though, the purpose is to get you to waste your time responding to every little complaint, and falsely-amiable questions are the easiest way to get you to waste it.

So don't. Spend it doing more constructive activities, like making a game, talking to others genuinely interested in dialogue, or any form of self-care. You owe nothing - especially not answers - to a mob whose intent is to harass you.

Who was the first social justice warrior?

Why don't you tell me? I dont need to look at a bunch of whiny liberals on the internet, you will tell me on here, or maybe you can't because there are no real examples

It's far worse than I claim it be. It's unarticulated because of generations of assholes humiliating, assaulting, or even murdering anyone who attempts to articulate it.



All that's left of that horrific legacy is the shaming and grandstanding on display in this thread by people with a dying worldview, people like you.

Wrong again. Feminists are already here, you're conversing with one right now.

It's unarticulated because it's not half as bad as you claim it to be, it appears as if feminists are going to end up even here in Bitcointalk soon, he'll be calling his allies when he realises he can't win through spam, threats and ridiculous accusations.

You have the internet available at your fingertips, the greatest compendium of knowledge ever assembled, accessible with convenience unimaginable to every generation that came before. Use it.

http://simplikation.com/why-sealioning-is-bad/

I have seen the same statement many times before, but have yet to actually see a specific, real world example.
Please provide me with an example.

Wrong question. The right question is, "What wouldn't I have achieved if I hadn't been born white?"

>>Premise Four: Civilization is based on a clearly defined and widely accepted yet often unarticulated hierarchy. Violence done by those higher on the hierarchy to those lower is nearly always invisible, that is, unnoticed. When it is noticed, it is fully rationalized. Violence done by those lower on the hierarchy to those higher is unthinkable, and when it does occur is regarded with shock, horror, and the fetishization of the victims.

P.S.
I too am a white american male, who only came to understand privilege (my own, and that which I lack) after a great deal of personal suffering.

What will I achieve specifically because of my race? Please enlighten me.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Thank you for that kind demonstration. It's not about what you get, it's about what non-white people don't get.

One word, you are pathetic beliathon. I am white myself and have not received any "special privilege" just because of my race. Prove 1 way that oculd happen. In fact, its the opposite. Affirmative action allows the other races to get accepted into universities a lot easier.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-emotion

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

On Privilege

Privilege is the “special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to one person or group of people”. Privilege is constructed and normalized by the established frameworks of society – narratives that have been developed based on the power struggles of history. This means that people are classified by those who encounter them, and since these viewers are so influenced by the constructed norm, the classification may be an unconscious act. In other words, even once you are aware of privilege, it is extremely difficult to eliminate it. Of course, many people are not aware of why they treat certain people certain ways, or may choose to ignore the realities of privilege.

Furthermore, for those receiving the privilege, it is difficult to be aware of this special treatment since in most cases they have been receiving privilege throughout their lives.  For those outside the privileged group(s), the distinction may be more obvious. Or, it may not be noticeable until the facts are presented, since many people don’t stop to analyze and question their treatment. Once you are aware of privilege, however, it is important to learn more, question, seek to erase it, and above all to not use privilege to your advantage. You might start doing this by asking, “are the ways in which I am being treated different from the ways other groups are treated”? Recognizing the ways in which one is privileged gives one the responsibility to lessen the effects of that privilege. You can find more information about ways to do this here. However, it is not enough for one individual to recognize this – systemic change is required in order to dismantle the established norms of oppression that define our lives from birth.

Some types of privilege include, but are not limited to, male privilege, white privilege, racial privilege in general, privilege based on attractiveness, privilege pertaining to physical abilities, privilege relating to mental health, privilege based on sexual orientation,  privilege based on gender, and privilege based on class and/or social status. Almost all people benefit from a privilege of some kind. Privilege is a crucial phenomenon in society, because privileged groups hold power and thus can create society’s framework of laws, values and institutions. These constructions will continue to benefit the group in power, with the needs of other, non-privileged (oppressed) groups seen as secondary. In order to gain rights, power and resources, those who do not identify with privileged groups must adhere to the framework created by the privileged. Some privileges, like knowing that your identity will not count against you in court, should extend to all people. However, some privileges, like the ability to ignore certain people based on their identity, “distort the humanity of the holders as well as the ignored groups” (Peggy McIntosh). Therefore we must differentiate between the privileges that we should work to universalize, and those which we must eliminate from the actions of all in order to dismantle privilege.

White Privilege

I am the bearer of white privilege. I know this, and I do my best to look out for, and avoid, the ways in which it helps me get ahead in life. It’s not easy, because education is what has helped me to come to recognize this privilege, and therefore my understanding hasn’t been with me for my whole life. But I do understand that in order to truly be an activist for equity, I have got to do my part in dismantling the systems that privilege certain people for no better reason than their membership in a social group. If you have no idea what I’m talking about, keep reading (especially the list below).

In her essay, White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack, Peggy McIntosh gives some interesting examples of the treatment that people with white skin can expect and take for granted, due to the privilege that they are granted by those that identify them as white. She states, ‘As a white person, I realized I had been taught about racism as something which puts others at a disadvantage, but had been taught not to see one of its corollary aspects, white privilege, which puts me at an advantage… After I realized the extent to which men work from a base of unacknowledged privilege, I understood that much of their oppressiveness was unconscious. Then I remembered the frequent charges from women of colour that white women whom they encounter are oppressive. I began to understand why we are justly seen as oppressive, even when we don’t see ourselves that way. I began to count the ways in which I enjoy unearned skin privilege and have been conditioned into oblivion about its existence… I was taught to see myself as an individual whose moral state depended on her individual moral will… whites are taught to think of their lives as morally neutral, normative and average, and also ideal, so that when we work to benefit others, this is seen as work which will allow “them” to be more like “us”.’

McIntosh goes on to compile the following list of some of the daily effects of white privilege in her life:

I can, if I wish, arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area that I can afford and in which I would want to live.
I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization”, I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods that fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser’s shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.
Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes or not answer letters without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color, who constitute the worlds’ majority, without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
I can be sure that if I ask to talk to “the person in charge” I will be facing a person of my race.
If a traffic cop pulls me over, or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race.
I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children’s magazines featuring people of my race.
I can go home from most meetings or organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in rather than isolated, out of place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.
I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.
I can choose public accommodations without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help my race will not work against me.
If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.
I can chose blemish cover or bandages in “flesh” color that more or less matches my skin.
The first time I read this list, I found myself saying, “Oh yeah! That does happen” to every point. These are things which I, as a white person, take for granted — and I am definitely not alone on that.
McIntosh remarks that, white privilege is “an elusive and fugitive subject… some of these [points] are only what one would want for everyone in a just society, and others give license to be ignorant, oblivious, arrogant and destructive… some of the conditions I have described here work to systematically over-empower certain groups. Such privilege simply confers dominance because of one’s race or sex”. She also points out that “being of the main culture, I [can] also criticize it fairly freely”. The Angry Black Woman gives an amazing summary of white privilege, and of some of the most spot-on blog posts about the subject here.

Male Privilege

One reason for male privilege is that the prevailing force in most, if not all societies, is patriarchy, which gives the male figure power over women and children and positions males as the centre of social organization. This is a highly established system that has manifested throughout history. It’s seen in everything from royal succession, to voting rights, to religious and political power, and the list goes on and on.  Due to this patriarchial force, non-male groups are subject to a different set of experiences, although they often may not realize this. Women throughout the world must fight for rights that males receive automatically. These rights vary, from the right to drive to the right to equal pay to the right to walk down the street without being catcalled. The automatic privilege received by males, many of whom are not aware of the treatment they receive, can be known as male privilege. Male privilege also means that males have most of the control over female reproductive rights, whether enforcing this through religion, government policies, or lack of funding.

Come on Beliathon, don't be like them, I thought you were better than that seriously

Please tell me you're not one of those self-righteous, self-contradictory, assholes that only speaks in stupid catch phrases designed for stupid people and deliberately go around looking to be offended by everything.

Not at all.

I'm a social anarchist / anarcho-socialist and anti-capitalist, so basically as far left as the spectrum goes.

Wrong. That argument didn't hold up when they tried to use it to defend slavery, it certainly doesn't hold up now.