What's your opinion of gun control? - page 138.

valta4065

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Quote from: TECSHARE on February 16, 2016, 04:44:53 PM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 01:14:32 PM

Well if I can't interpret your words in any way, your assertion is... Useless. Because if what you meant to say is just EXACTLY what you said, you just basically said "we have a higher diversity" without linking it to the subject. My only interpretation was to consider that your argument about racial diversity was to be linked to the higher violence in the USA. If it is not what you wanted to say then sorry for the interpretation. It's just that your statement is useless.

Sorry I thought you tried to add an argument. You were just posting without any goal. I'll stop interpreting whatever you say, though you should maybe read a bit of philosophy about the use of language because it seems you never understood the important part of language: words are MEANT TO BE INTERPRETED! Otherwise just talk to yourself. If you don't take into account what the person you're talking to then no need to talk.

You can interpret all day if you want, your problem is that you repeated those internal interpretations as if they came from me. That is your gap in logic. You don't get to interpret my statements then attribute them to me. As for the rest of your statement I suggest you research logic before you pretend to teach me "the philosophy" of language.

Ah! Talking about logic? Well if you want to talk about logic, last time I checked I gave you proofs that USA society is much more violent and that could maybe be correlated to the gun freedom. And you never gave any argument to counter this.
And I seriously suggest you to read a bit more. Seems you have a lot to learn about communication if you know so much already about logic.

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Quote from: eon89 on February 17, 2016, 04:27:55 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on February 16, 2016, 10:07:09 PM

Quote from: eon89 on February 16, 2016, 03:46:59 PM

I've never seen someone shot where I live. We don't have people roam with guns on the street. Maybe that's something isn't it?

I've never seen a polar bear where I live. But I have heard rumors that some people have seen them where they live.

Yes, what I meant is that if people don't have guns, there won't be (as much, if any) gun casualties. You could agree that it works.

They could agree but that would need first to think about something which they can hardly do ^^

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Quote from: Spendulus on February 16, 2016, 10:07:09 PM

Quote from: eon89 on February 16, 2016, 03:46:59 PM

I've never seen someone shot where I live. We don't have people roam with guns on the street. Maybe that's something isn't it?

I've never seen a polar bear where I live. But I have heard rumors that some people have seen them where they live.

Yes, what I meant is that if people don't have guns, there won't be (as much, if any) gun casualties. You could agree that it works.

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Quote from: clangtrump on February 17, 2016, 03:15:14 AM

People control would be better

AKA the Holocaust & every other democide in history, perpetrated against disarmed and/or defenseless innocents.

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People control would be better

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Quote from: eon89 on February 16, 2016, 03:46:59 PM

I've never seen someone shot where I live. We don't have people roam with guns on the street. Maybe that's something isn't it?

I've never seen a polar bear where I live. But I have heard rumors that some people have seen them where they live.

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Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 01:14:32 PM

Well if I can't interpret your words in any way, your assertion is... Useless. Because if what you meant to say is just EXACTLY what you said, you just basically said "we have a higher diversity" without linking it to the subject. My only interpretation was to consider that your argument about racial diversity was to be linked to the higher violence in the USA. If it is not what you wanted to say then sorry for the interpretation. It's just that your statement is useless.

Sorry I thought you tried to add an argument. You were just posting without any goal. I'll stop interpreting whatever you say, though you should maybe read a bit of philosophy about the use of language because it seems you never understood the important part of language: words are MEANT TO BE INTERPRETED! Otherwise just talk to yourself. If you don't take into account what the person you're talking to then no need to talk.

You can interpret all day if you want, your problem is that you repeated those internal interpretations as if they came from me. That is your gap in logic. You don't get to interpret my statements then attribute them to me. As for the rest of your statement I suggest you research logic before you pretend to teach me "the philosophy" of language.

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I've never seen someone shot where I live. We don't have people roam with guns on the street. Maybe that's something isn't it?

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Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 01:14:32 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on February 16, 2016, 10:53:34 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 08:49:00 AM

Damn if what you said here is not "racial diversity is responsible for crime rates" what did you say?
Ok you never said it was the ONLY factor but you clearly implied it was a factor of very high importance and it's the only one you provided.
"In a debate, this means you have no argument, and you lose."
No in a debate that means we had a misunderstanding. Not that I have no argument. You're incredibly sensible to any kind of subtle variation and interpretation of your words, no doubt about that...

I didn't say that either. I didn't imply anything, you did. I made clear statements of what I meant, no interpretation needed.
To have a debate one must argue using logic. You were using only logical fallacies which are simple tricks which are not valid arguments under the law of language, logic. By definition you have no argument when you use only logical fallacies. This isn't up for debate, it has been the law of language for thousands of years.

Thanks for noticing my sensibility, though I suspect you meant to use the word sensitive. Yes I am extremely sensitive to any subtle variation and interpretation of my words. You know why? THEY ARE MY WORDS. YOU do not get to interpret or change them for me. That's why they are called my words, because it is what I mean to say, not what you want to interpret my words as that is most important. Please continue to expose your ignorance with your endless floundering and complete lack of rules of logic.

Quote from: TECSHARE on February 13, 2016, 12:28:43 PM

Statistics show increased diversity results in more conflict, and therefore an increased need for the ability to defend one's self. We don't have the benefit of as much cultural homogeneity like you do in France and most of Europe, though I know you love to cast firearms as being the cause of the violence rather than a result of violence.

Well if I can't interpret your words in any way, your assertion is... Useless. Because if what you meant to say is just EXACTLY what you said, you just basically said "we have a higher diversity" without linking it to the subject. My only interpretation was to consider that your argument about racial diversity was to be linked to the higher violence in the USA. If it is not what you wanted to say then sorry for the interpretation. It's just that your statement is useless.

Sorry I thought you tried to add an argument. You were just posting without any goal. I'll stop interpreting whatever you say, though you should maybe read a bit of philosophy about the use of language because it seems you never understood the important part of language: words are MEANT TO BE INTERPRETED! Otherwise just talk to yourself. If you don't take into account what the person you're talking to then no need to talk.

Is it my imagination or do most liberal / conservative discussions consist of LOGICAL ERRORS (liberal) debating LOGIC (conservative)?

Sure does seem that way.

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Quote from: TECSHARE on February 16, 2016, 10:53:34 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 08:49:00 AM

Damn if what you said here is not "racial diversity is responsible for crime rates" what did you say?
Ok you never said it was the ONLY factor but you clearly implied it was a factor of very high importance and it's the only one you provided.
"In a debate, this means you have no argument, and you lose."
No in a debate that means we had a misunderstanding. Not that I have no argument. You're incredibly sensible to any kind of subtle variation and interpretation of your words, no doubt about that...

I didn't say that either. I didn't imply anything, you did. I made clear statements of what I meant, no interpretation needed.
To have a debate one must argue using logic. You were using only logical fallacies which are simple tricks which are not valid arguments under the law of language, logic. By definition you have no argument when you use only logical fallacies. This isn't up for debate, it has been the law of language for thousands of years.

Thanks for noticing my sensibility, though I suspect you meant to use the word sensitive. Yes I am extremely sensitive to any subtle variation and interpretation of my words. You know why? THEY ARE MY WORDS. YOU do not get to interpret or change them for me. That's why they are called my words, because it is what I mean to say, not what you want to interpret my words as that is most important. Please continue to expose your ignorance with your endless floundering and complete lack of rules of logic.

Quote from: TECSHARE on February 13, 2016, 12:28:43 PM

Statistics show increased diversity results in more conflict, and therefore an increased need for the ability to defend one's self. We don't have the benefit of as much cultural homogeneity like you do in France and most of Europe, though I know you love to cast firearms as being the cause of the violence rather than a result of violence.

Well if I can't interpret your words in any way, your assertion is... Useless. Because if what you meant to say is just EXACTLY what you said, you just basically said "we have a higher diversity" without linking it to the subject. My only interpretation was to consider that your argument about racial diversity was to be linked to the higher violence in the USA. If it is not what you wanted to say then sorry for the interpretation. It's just that your statement is useless.

Sorry I thought you tried to add an argument. You were just posting without any goal. I'll stop interpreting whatever you say, though you should maybe read a bit of philosophy about the use of language because it seems you never understood the important part of language: words are MEANT TO BE INTERPRETED! Otherwise just talk to yourself. If you don't take into account what the person you're talking to then no need to talk.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 08:49:00 AM

Damn if what you said here is not "racial diversity is responsible for crime rates" what did you say?
Ok you never said it was the ONLY factor but you clearly implied it was a factor of very high importance and it's the only one you provided.
"In a debate, this means you have no argument, and you lose."
No in a debate that means we had a misunderstanding. Not that I have no argument. You're incredibly sensible to any kind of subtle variation and interpretation of your words, no doubt about that...

I didn't say that either. I didn't imply anything, you did. I made clear statements of what I meant, no interpretation needed.
To have a debate one must argue using logic. You were using only logical fallacies which are simple tricks which are not valid arguments under the law of language, logic. By definition you have no argument when you use only logical fallacies. This isn't up for debate, it has been the law of language for thousands of years.

Thanks for noticing my sensibility, though I suspect you meant to use the word sensitive. Yes I am extremely sensitive to any subtle variation and interpretation of my words. You know why? THEY ARE MY WORDS. YOU do not get to interpret or change them for me. That's why they are called my words, because it is what I mean to say, not what you want to interpret my words as that is most important. Please continue to expose your ignorance with your endless floundering and complete lack of rules of logic.

valta4065

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Quote from: Spendulus on February 16, 2016, 08:31:41 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 04:52:25 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on February 15, 2016, 10:52:52 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 15, 2016, 05:26:52 AM

....
What are you trying to prove? I already said that there was less than 200 deaths every year because of terrorist attacks so that was not the big deal the media and the politics want to make us believe. You're just proving my point.

You said 200 / year in the EU. I pointed out you had about that many just in your Safe Country Where Criminals Obey The Laws. Please thousand injuried.

Hell of a success you got there. Viva Charlie Hebro.

Lol no, 140 deaths in the biggest terrorist attacks in Europe since... Pff don't even know! It was so big the whole world cried and was with us xD
And not thousand injured, roughly 500.

Ok I'll admit this one, maybe in the year of the biggest terrorist attacks ever done in Europe the number of deaths was maybe a bit higher than 200 ^^
Take any other year and it will no longer be the case.
And the idea was to claim that number of deaths because of terrorist attacks is ridiculously low. If it's 300 maybe it's 300 whatever...

LOL at Death, man. This is just plain sick.

And you admit you really don't even know what the numbers are. Here's a suggestion. Go find out, then post them. You lose face, making things up and posting them to support your pre determined conclusion. You also lose face trying to argue that terrorism is ridiculously insignificant. It's only you doing that - your own government isn't. They are reacting pragmatically to the threat. You are an ostrich who would hide it's head in the sand, but can't because he's got to keep squawking.

For god sakes...
Of course I don't know what are the precise numbers and I NEVER SAID I HAD THEM. I gave a raw estimation nothing more!
And yeah LOL at DEATH. Death is common in human society you know?

Terrorism is incredibly insignificant. In France terrorists kill 140 people in the BIGGEST AND WORST TERRORIST ATTACKS EVER MADE IN FRANCE! And near that 10 000 people kill themselves every year because of social and economic context! You still think it's important to fight terrorism???

Well if you do we don't have the same definition of the word "priority". That's for sure.

"You are an ostrich who would hide it's head in the sand, but can't because he's got to keep squawking." Well I trust the numbers. Terrorists are not a huge threat. They do nearly no damage. They just make everyone panick give good stories to media and allow governments to create their own Patriot Act.

valta4065

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Quote from: TECSHARE on February 16, 2016, 06:12:21 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 05:54:12 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on February 16, 2016, 05:17:49 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 05:00:15 AM

So you're claiming that crime rates are the result of only racial diversity? And even if you say so, you don't have twice more diversified population and we got a four times lower violent crime rates... Even saying that diversity is the only factor (which is obviously not) it's not explaining it.
Can you do the math buddy?

BTW, we'll see what will happen but I don't think terrorism will ever be important enough to justify the security measures in place. Even with 1000 deaths every year it wouldn't justify it.

You make up whatever you like and attribute it to me, I didn't say any of those things. That is a straw man attack logical fallacy, making claims I said something then expecting me to argue your point attributed to me. I show you real data that can be researched and checked on your own and your only reply is a straw man attack. You are not winning this debate just because you are making lots of posts. That is not how it works.

What? I'm not making any kind of attack! You said that difference of crime rates can be explained through racial diversity not me! You're the one saying that and I'm saying it can't explain it that's all! Where is the straw man attack here???

I have emboldened the statements you claim I made, but that were not actually my statements. This is the definition of a strawman argument also known as a logical fallacy. In a debate, this means you have no argument, and you lose.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

Quote from: TECSHARE on February 13, 2016, 12:28:43 PM

Statistics show increased diversity results in more conflict, and therefore an increased need for the ability to defend one's self. We don't have the benefit of as much cultural homogeneity like you do in France and most of Europe, though I know you love to cast firearms as being the cause of the violence rather than a result of violence.

Damn if what you said here is not "racial diversity is responsible for crime rates" what did you say?
Ok you never said it was the ONLY factor but you clearly implied it was a factor of very high importance and it's the only one you provided.
"In a debate, this means you have no argument, and you lose."
No in a debate that means we had a misunderstanding. Not that I have no argument. You're incredibly sensible to any kind of subtle variation and interpretation of your words, no doubt about that...

Spendulus

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Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 04:52:25 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on February 15, 2016, 10:52:52 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 15, 2016, 05:26:52 AM

....
What are you trying to prove? I already said that there was less than 200 deaths every year because of terrorist attacks so that was not the big deal the media and the politics want to make us believe. You're just proving my point.

You said 200 / year in the EU. I pointed out you had about that many just in your Safe Country Where Criminals Obey The Laws. Please thousand injuried.

Hell of a success you got there. Viva Charlie Hebro.

Lol no, 140 deaths in the biggest terrorist attacks in Europe since... Pff don't even know! It was so big the whole world cried and was with us xD
And not thousand injured, roughly 500.

Ok I'll admit this one, maybe in the year of the biggest terrorist attacks ever done in Europe the number of deaths was maybe a bit higher than 200 ^^
Take any other year and it will no longer be the case.
And the idea was to claim that number of deaths because of terrorist attacks is ridiculously low. If it's 300 maybe it's 300 whatever...

LOL at Death, man. This is just plain sick.

And you admit you really don't even know what the numbers are. Here's a suggestion. Go find out, then post them. You lose face, making things up and posting them to support your pre determined conclusion. You also lose face trying to argue that terrorism is ridiculously insignificant. It's only you doing that - your own government isn't. They are reacting pragmatically to the threat. You are an ostrich who would hide it's head in the sand, but can't because he's got to keep squawking.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 05:54:12 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on February 16, 2016, 05:17:49 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 05:00:15 AM

So you're claiming that crime rates are the result of only racial diversity? And even if you say so, you don't have twice more diversified population and we got a four times lower violent crime rates... Even saying that diversity is the only factor (which is obviously not) it's not explaining it.
Can you do the math buddy?

BTW, we'll see what will happen but I don't think terrorism will ever be important enough to justify the security measures in place. Even with 1000 deaths every year it wouldn't justify it.

You make up whatever you like and attribute it to me, I didn't say any of those things. That is a straw man attack logical fallacy, making claims I said something then expecting me to argue your point attributed to me. I show you real data that can be researched and checked on your own and your only reply is a straw man attack. You are not winning this debate just because you are making lots of posts. That is not how it works.

What? I'm not making any kind of attack! You said that difference of crime rates can be explained through racial diversity not me! You're the one saying that and I'm saying it can't explain it that's all! Where is the straw man attack here???

I have emboldened the statements you claim I made, but that were not actually my statements. This is the definition of a strawman argument also known as a logical fallacy. In a debate, this means you have no argument, and you lose.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

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Quote from: TECSHARE on February 16, 2016, 05:17:49 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 05:00:15 AM

So you're claiming that crime rates are the result of only racial diversity? And even if you say so, you don't have twice more diversified population and we got a four times lower violent crime rates... Even saying that diversity is the only factor (which is obviously not) it's not explaining it.
Can you do the math buddy?

BTW, we'll see what will happen but I don't think terrorism will ever be important enough to justify the security measures in place. Even with 1000 deaths every year it wouldn't justify it.

You make up whatever you like and attribute it to me, I didn't say any of those things. That is a straw man attack logical fallacy, making claims I said something then expecting me to argue your point attributed to me. I show you real data that can be researched and checked on your own and your only reply is a straw man attack. You are not winning this debate just because you are making lots of posts. That is not how it works.

What? I'm not making any kind of attack! You said that difference of crime rates can be explained through racial diversity not me! You're the one saying that and I'm saying it can't explain it that's all! Where is the straw man attack here???

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Quote from: valta4065 on February 16, 2016, 05:00:15 AM

So you're claiming that crime rates are the result of only racial diversity? And even if you say so, you don't have twice more diversified population and we got a four times lower violent crime rates... Even saying that diversity is the only factor (which is obviously not) it's not explaining it.
Can you do the math buddy?

BTW, we'll see what will happen but I don't think terrorism will ever be important enough to justify the security measures in place. Even with 1000 deaths every year it wouldn't justify it.

You make up whatever you like and attribute it to me, I didn't say any of those things. That is a straw man attack logical fallacy, making claims I said something then expecting me to argue your point attributed to me. I show you real data that can be researched and checked on your own and your only reply is a straw man attack. You are not winning this debate just because you are making lots of posts. That is not how it works.

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Quote from: criptix on February 15, 2016, 12:35:23 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 15, 2016, 12:25:35 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on February 15, 2016, 10:52:52 AM

You said 200 / year in the EU. I pointed out you had about that many just in your Safe Country Where Criminals Obey The Laws. Please thousand injuried.

Hell of a success you got there. Viva Charlie Hebro.

I am deeply disturbed by the callousness shown here by the pro-ISIS posters, who claim that 200 deaths is a very small number. It is not! Every single life is precious. How many individuals were killed by Christian, Hindu, Sikh, or Jewish extremists in the European Union, during the past decade? I am sure that the figure is closer to ZERO, than it is to 200.

I see every weeks news of jews and palistines killing each other - and im talking about extremist terror.

There are also examples for religous extremism from hindu and christians in south asia.

Edit

I bet there are like 20.000 people dying in Russia every year because of bad .gov
State terrorism right Wink

Ahah, it doesn't count buddy. France kills a few thousands of strangers every year in the place we're at war, but it doesn't count. The small 140 deaths we got from terrorisme makes everyone losing their mind, while IT'S NOTHING GODAMMNIT! 140 deaths?? 140 Fucking deaths in the year of the biggest terrorist attack we ever had!!! It's nothing, it's barely worth noticing!
But no, media and people go straight for it, forgetting the thousands of deaths every year due to our real ennemies... Just because they're too dumb... Every year 10 000 people kill themselves in France. Most of them are partially due to unemployment and poverty. That's no accident. Banks and companies are behind it.

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Quote from: TECSHARE on February 15, 2016, 01:13:55 PM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 15, 2016, 05:23:03 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on February 13, 2016, 12:28:43 PM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 13, 2016, 07:44:50 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on February 12, 2016, 07:38:04 PM

The additional consequences:

1) Police (often indescriminate from gangs) now have a list of armed people to rob, harass, or steal guns from illegally. They can also sell this list to other criminal groups.

2) You have no ability to protect yourself where it is needed most, going about your daily activities.

3) You have no right to defend yourself at home either, because by the time you load your weapon whoever it is you are preparing it for will already be on top of you.

More drivel from ignorant Frenchmen who have never even seen a real gun in person. Enjoy the new French Caliphate.

Oh we enjoy it don't worry! We enjoy it the same way we enjoy our free of mass shootings and our low violent crimes and rapes rates <3

I let you the "right to protect yourself" given because of your incredible fear of everything including your lack of trust in your own police. I prefer the way we do it, trust in our fellow citizens and our police. Which leads to know we can hang out pretty much anywhere at anytime.

And for your 2 and 3.... Again if you feel so much the need to "protect yourself" maybe you don't live in a safe and correct place to live and raise a family. You should move buddy.

I'm not your buddy, guy. I'm not your guy, friend. I'm not your friend, buddy.

Sure, you are free of mass shootings, except for you know the Muslim extremists walking your streets executing people with AK-47s. This has nothing to do with fear, its called self reliance and independence. I am not going to put the responsibility for protecting my life and the lives of my friends, family, and neighbors in the hands of some government bureaucrat who is in effect an armed revenue collection agent for his jurisdiction. It is easy to trust your fellow citizens and police when most of you share the same genetic and cultural origins, and only have a population about 1/6th the size of the US. Here we have many different cultures, religions, races, and belief systems all living right next to each other.

Statistics show increased diversity results in more conflict, and therefore an increased need for the ability to defend one's self. We don't have the benefit of as much cultural homogeneity like you do in France and most of Europe, though I know you love to cast firearms as being the cause of the violence rather than a result of violence. I don't need to move, I have the ability to defend myself. I don't have to depend on bureaucrats to save my life minutes away when seconds count. Ignorance of the risks you take is not the same thing as being prepared or being safe buddy guy.

Ahah! Yeah buddy sure.

The Muslim extremists, you mean the two first terrorists attacks in something like 30 years? Oh dman yeah I feel really in danger ^^
And you're talking about cultural differencies and shit like that like USA is incredibly more diversified than France... France has 7% of Muslims while USA something like 1%. We have the diversity of colonization. I don't think we're really less diversified. Anyway as you loved to say so many times during our discussion: "He who claims must prove" so please bring the proofs of a lower diversity in cultures and ethnicity in Europe compared to the USA.

And say whatever you want, you want change the facts:
We got less murders, less rapes, less violent crimes. I feel safe at home and have no need to carry a weapon.

Oh there are more attacks coming buddy, trust me, even if you are to ignorant to see the writing on the wall. Just because you don't think you are in danger doesn't mean you are safe. Ignorance doesn't protect you from reality. BTW when I said diversity, I never said diversity of only Muslims, the USA has many different religions, races, belief systems, and income classes, even much more so than France.

According to the 2014 census data, the USA is 38% non-white ethnicity. Given your nation of France makes collecting official racial demographic information illegal, I am not sure you have much data to argue with. Estimates I have found range from 15%-30% non-white ethnicity within France. Like I said before, France enjoys more racial homogeneity resulting directly in lower crime rates as more people are of similar cultural value systems and conflict is therefore less common.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-by-raceethnicity/

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/france-population/

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/challenge-french-diversity

So you're claiming that crime rates are the result of only racial diversity? And even if you say so, you don't have twice more diversified population and we got a four times lower violent crime rates... Even saying that diversity is the only factor (which is obviously not) it's not explaining it.
Can you do the math buddy?

BTW, we'll see what will happen but I don't think terrorism will ever be important enough to justify the security measures in place. Even with 1000 deaths every year it wouldn't justify it.

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 15, 2016, 12:25:35 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on February 15, 2016, 10:52:52 AM

You said 200 / year in the EU. I pointed out you had about that many just in your Safe Country Where Criminals Obey The Laws. Please thousand injuried.

Hell of a success you got there. Viva Charlie Hebro.

I am deeply disturbed by the callousness shown here by the pro-ISIS posters, who claim that 200 deaths is a very small number. It is not! Every single life is precious. How many individuals were killed by Christian, Hindu, Sikh, or Jewish extremists in the European Union, during the past decade? I am sure that the figure is closer to ZERO, than it is to 200.

Ooooooooooooooooooooh look at him, so cute! So any life is precious but the hundreds of drowning migrants every year doesn't count? And every single life is precious but the number of deaths in the USA because of gun freedom (which is the topic at the base if you remember) doesn't count too?

Funny how you become a guardian of life suddenly ^^

Btw go fuck yourself I'm nothing like pro-ISIS. I'm just saying there are much more important and dangerous things in the world.

Topic: What's your opinion of gun control? - page 138. (Read 450482 times)