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Topic: What's your opinion of gun control? - page 166. (Read 450482 times)

legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
November 11, 2015, 12:50:13 PM

lets say Americans give up their gun rights. Then the government decides it wants to use unconstitutional force on us. How would we defend ourselves without guns?

Distributed crypto-currency.  One of the big draws of Bitcoin for me years ago was my sense of hopelessness about the utility of guns as being useful under a situation where it was appropriate to 'bare arms' as envisioned by the authors of the 2nd amendment.  'We the people' are increasingly dis-advantaged in such a contest as technology moves exponentially forward.

It occurs to me that the main thing the proverbial 'powers that be' have is more money.  All of the rest of their power and influence derives from that, and this asymmetry is the basis for what amounts to a form slavery under which more and more citizens live even here in the 'land of the free.'  Wresting monopoly control of nation's (or world's) monetary system from TPTB is a far more powerful weapon than civilian firearms.  The latter certainly has it's place both tactically and strategically however.  And they are an indispensable tool for other more mundane things as well.


I guess as a thought experiment, then, look at the meaning today of "bear arms."  First of all, "arms" was not specifically firearms, but things that poke, stab and slice.  Bows and arrows, pikes, spears, swords, mace, knives at the minimum.  But today in most areas none of these, with the exception of firearms, are considered "arms."

Secondly, you'd broaden "arms" to include crypto?

Interesting idea.  It is a day of robbers and thieves operating over the internet.  Yes, we can protect our goods and gold from them using crypto, just like yesterday we would do it with a firearm, and before that, with a sword.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 11, 2015, 11:38:53 AM

lets say Americans give up their gun rights. Then the government decides it wants to use unconstitutional force on us. How would we defend ourselves without guns?

Distributed crypto-currency.  One of the big draws of Bitcoin for me years ago was my sense of hopelessness about the utility of guns as being useful under a situation where it was appropriate to 'bare arms' as envisioned by the authors of the 2nd amendment.  'We the people' are increasingly dis-advantaged in such a contest as technology moves exponentially forward.

It occurs to me that the main thing the proverbial 'powers that be' have is more money.  All of the rest of their power and influence derives from that, and this asymmetry is the basis for what amounts to a form slavery under which more and more citizens live even here in the 'land of the free.'  Wresting monopoly control of nation's (or world's) monetary system from TPTB is a far more powerful weapon than civilian firearms.  The latter certainly has it's place both tactically and strategically however.  And they are an indispensable tool for other more mundane things as well.



Money is never useful to the wealthy if the poor do not use it as well. If the poor use it, then the money is more useful to the wealthy than to the poor. Why do we keep on using fiat? Why not? It will fail someday. Good reason to hodl Bitcoin.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
November 11, 2015, 11:02:48 AM

lets say Americans give up their gun rights. Then the government decides it wants to use unconstitutional force on us. How would we defend ourselves without guns?

Distributed crypto-currency.  One of the big draws of Bitcoin for me years ago was my sense of hopelessness about the utility of guns as being useful under a situation where it was appropriate to 'bare arms' as envisioned by the authors of the 2nd amendment.  'We the people' are increasingly dis-advantaged in such a contest as technology moves exponentially forward.

It occurs to me that the main thing the proverbial 'powers that be' have is more money.  All of the rest of their power and influence derives from that, and this asymmetry is the basis for what amounts to a form slavery under which more and more citizens live even here in the 'land of the free.'  Wresting monopoly control of nation's (or world's) monetary system from TPTB is a far more powerful weapon than civilian firearms.  The latter certainly has it's place both tactically and strategically however.  And they are an indispensable tool for other more mundane things as well.

hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
November 11, 2015, 10:18:35 AM
Gun's don't cause violence. If violent people want to go crazy and kill people, they'll find ways to do it with or without guns.
It's when crazy people who are not stable get ahold of guns. There needs to be tighter controls on who is able to carry. Better screening, interview process, psychological profile?

Which would not control all who are able to carry or get a hold of guns.
What happens once guns are banned and the criminals still have them? What happens when guns are banned and people are still killing people without guns? I guess we ban people next?

You should not say these things because they are troubling.  We want to be happy.  You have this weird obsession with logic.  Why?  Why can't you just stick with simple, warm and happy baskets of feelings?
The biggest problem with "gun violence studies" is that 95% of them are laughable as far as being "scientific studies". A "study" should be conducted by people who have some considerable knowledge regarding the general area being studied and should be conducted with a completely opened and neutral mind.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 11, 2015, 06:29:37 AM
lets say Americans give up their gun rights. Then the government decides it wants to use unconstitutional force on us. How would we defend ourselves without guns?

If you don't want to be vaporized, you'd have to take your own life.

Yes, vaporized. Because this time they will use plasma fired furnaces, rather than the old style, coal and wood fired, that Hitler and his cohorts used.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1032
RIP Mommy
November 11, 2015, 04:57:34 AM
lets say Americans give up their gun rights. Then the government decides it wants to use unconstitutional force on us. How would we defend ourselves without guns?

If you don't want to be vaporized, you'd have to take your own life.
hero member
Activity: 676
Merit: 500
November 11, 2015, 02:26:52 AM
lets say Americans give up their gun rights. Then the government decides it wants to use unconstitutional force on us. How would we defend ourselves without guns?
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
November 10, 2015, 06:22:29 PM
Gun's don't cause violence. If violent people want to go crazy and kill people, they'll find ways to do it with or without guns.
It's when crazy people who are not stable get ahold of guns. There needs to be tighter controls on who is able to carry. Better screening, interview process, psychological profile?

Which would not control all who are able to carry or get a hold of guns.
What happens once guns are banned and the criminals still have them? What happens when guns are banned and people are still killing people without guns? I guess we ban people next?

You should not say these things because they are troubling.  We want to be happy.  You have this weird obsession with logic.  Why?  Why can't you just stick with simple, warm and happy baskets of feelings?
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
November 10, 2015, 04:02:50 PM
Gun's don't cause violence. If violent people want to go crazy and kill people, they'll find ways to do it with or without guns.
It's when crazy people who are not stable get ahold of guns. There needs to be tighter controls on who is able to carry. Better screening, interview process, psychological profile?

Which would not control all who are able to carry or get a hold of guns.
What happens once guns are banned and the criminals still have them? What happens when guns are banned and people are still killing people without guns? I guess we ban people next?
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
November 09, 2015, 09:37:25 PM

Get one of those .22 drum fed automatics that shoots over 2000 rounds a minute. You can carve a lot of things up with it.

Smiley

That would still most likely just piss off an elk and make it uncomfortable with a bunch of small lead lumps under it's hide.  I've got a 300 win mag for these animals.  If I need to take them from my newly prepared area I could probably do so with a 12 ga slug due to the topography, but I would like to make this be an area where they feel safe and comfortable.  I checked yesterday and there is cropped grass and elk droppings so it is working.  This winter I'll prepare some more area as pasture for this purpose.  I hope to fill both of my tags from the ridge in a different part of my property, and do the shooting from the valley floor.  That's what the win mag is good for.

Yep, you got all that right.  And you don't want to go on a half hour hunt for that bleeding animal, and then haul the carcass back.  Question - are you of the opinion the 223 is no good for this?  What distance, anyway?

Oh, regarding the 2000 rpm suggestion.  Nope, you'd get exactly one shot at that elk.  See, that little sting makes him move.

I sure would not try with a .223 unless I were very desperate and starving.  I don't pretend to be an expert, but given the size of these animals I think you would be dependent on having enough luck to hit an artery or some similar vulnerable spot.  I suspect that a lung shot would kill it, but it would die 10 miles away and you would only find it by following the vultures a few days later.

You make a very good point about getting one shot at an elk though again, I'm hardly a professional.  I do have some experience with a .223 from my days in the military (though I've never been shot of course) and also experience with the densely foliage in my area as well as the behavior and capabilities of the creatures.

It is interesting that the the Federal box of 300 win-mag shells claims that they are suitable for small game like deer and not larger game like elk, and certainly not for dangerous game.  I suspect that they are err'ing on the side of caution.  The ballistics indicate that I should be able to take most shots available in my area.  Lots and lots of elk around here have fallen to 30-06 which is inferior to 300 wm in most respects.


OKay, I just read a full ballistics report on the 300.  Yep, that is pretty darn impressive.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
November 09, 2015, 08:23:02 PM

Get one of those .22 drum fed automatics that shoots over 2000 rounds a minute. You can carve a lot of things up with it.

Smiley

That would still most likely just piss off an elk and make it uncomfortable with a bunch of small lead lumps under it's hide.  I've got a 300 win mag for these animals.  If I need to take them from my newly prepared area I could probably do so with a 12 ga slug due to the topography, but I would like to make this be an area where they feel safe and comfortable.  I checked yesterday and there is cropped grass and elk droppings so it is working.  This winter I'll prepare some more area as pasture for this purpose.  I hope to fill both of my tags from the ridge in a different part of my property, and do the shooting from the valley floor.  That's what the win mag is good for.

Yep, you got all that right.  And you don't want to go on a half hour hunt for that bleeding animal, and then haul the carcass back.  Question - are you of the opinion the 223 is no good for this?  What distance, anyway?

Oh, regarding the 2000 rpm suggestion.  Nope, you'd get exactly one shot at that elk.  See, that little sting makes him move.

I sure would not try with a .223 unless I were very desperate and starving.  I don't pretend to be an expert, but given the size of these animals I think you would be dependent on having enough luck to hit an artery or some similar vulnerable spot.  I suspect that a lung shot would kill it, but it would die 10 miles away and you would only find it by following the vultures a few days later.

You make a very good point about getting one shot at an elk though again, I'm hardly a professional.  I do have some experience with a .223 from my days in the military (though I've never been shot of course) and also experience with the densely foliage in my area as well as the behavior and capabilities of the creatures.

It is interesting that the the Federal box of 300 win-mag shells claims that they are suitable for small game like deer and not larger game like elk, and certainly not for dangerous game.  I suspect that they are err'ing on the side of caution.  The ballistics indicate that I should be able to take most shots available in my area.  Lots and lots of elk around here have fallen to 30-06 which is inferior to 300 wm in most respects.

legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1032
RIP Mommy
November 09, 2015, 07:11:30 PM
Gunpowder was a Pandora's Box. I saw my nephews eyes light up when he saw his first fireworks, and I also saw him get very scared and nearly cry when they got louder and scarier.

Gunpowder hasn't helped us, it's holding us hostage -along with nuclear weapons. We are prisoners of our own aggression. In 2015, everyone probably wants a gun but nobody needs one. Gladly my country has a more sane view on gun ownership, but that hasn't stopped maniacs doing maniacal things.

Knives and blunt objects are dangerous too!

Great, survival of the fittest, where some animals are more equal than others, with violent criminals with knives (blades) and blunt objects, plus all the guns they can afford at all times, while only victims are rendered defenseless, "sanely", by "gun control".

Putting indiscriminate nukes, fireworks/bombs, and discriminate bearable arms within googolplex light years of one another, fail.
full member
Activity: 212
Merit: 100
November 09, 2015, 06:46:41 PM
Gunpowder was a Pandora's Box. I saw my nephews eyes light up when he saw his first fireworks, and I also saw him get very scared and nearly cry when they got louder and scarier.

Gunpowder hasn't helped us, it's holding us hostage -along with nuclear weapons. We are prisoners of our own aggression. In 2015, everyone probably wants a gun but nobody needs one. Gladly my country has a more sane view on gun ownership, but that hasn't stopped maniacs doing maniacal things.

Knives and blunt objects are dangerous too!
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
November 09, 2015, 04:44:10 PM
...
22LR rifles are allowed for trainings and hunting, but in order to be a hunter, you have to have lots of money and passion for drinking after every hunt. About .22 pistols - honestly, I have no idea.

That's news to me.  I hunt because I and my friends and family like the meat which is not infused with whatever they are putting into factory-farmed animals and I can help the Fish and Wildlife people achieve the ecological balance that they would like for the herds in the area.  I have enough land to get elk tags automatically though.

22 ain't gonna work for that, unless you want to go tracking.

Get one of those .22 drum fed automatics that shoots over 2000 rounds a minute. You can carve a lot of things up with it.

Smiley

That would still most likely just piss off an elk and make it uncomfortable with a bunch of small lead lumps under it's hide.  I've got a 300 win mag for these animals.  If I need to take them from my newly prepared area I could probably do so with a 12 ga slug due to the topography, but I would like to make this be an area where they feel safe and comfortable.  I checked yesterday and there is cropped grass and elk droppings so it is working.  This winter I'll prepare some more area as pasture for this purpose.  I hope to fill both of my tags from the ridge in a different part of my property, and do the shooting from the valley floor.  That's what the win mag is good for.


Yep, you got all that right.  And you don't want to go on a half hour hunt for that bleeding animal, and then haul the carcass back.  Question - are you of the opinion the 223 is no good for this?  What distance, anyway?

Oh, regarding the 2000 rpm suggestion.  Nope, you'd get exactly one shot at that elk.  See, that little sting makes him move.
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1032
RIP Mommy
November 09, 2015, 04:09:06 PM
Gun's don't cause violence. If violent people want to go crazy and kill people, they'll find ways to do it with or without guns.
It's when crazy people who are not stable get ahold of guns. There needs to be tighter controls on who is able to carry. Better screening, interview process, psychological profile?

Which would not control all who are able to carry or get a hold of guns.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
November 09, 2015, 03:58:36 PM
Gun's don't cause violence. If violent people want to go crazy and kill people, they'll find ways to do it with or without guns.
It's when crazy people who are not stable get ahold of guns. There needs to be tighter controls on who is able to carry. Better screening, interview process, psychological profile?
hero member
Activity: 676
Merit: 500
November 04, 2015, 02:32:23 PM
Gun's don't cause violence. If violent people want to go crazy and kill people, they'll find ways to do it with or without guns.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
October 31, 2015, 09:28:46 PM
...
22LR rifles are allowed for trainings and hunting, but in order to be a hunter, you have to have lots of money and passion for drinking after every hunt. About .22 pistols - honestly, I have no idea.

That's news to me.  I hunt because I and my friends and family like the meat which is not infused with whatever they are putting into factory-farmed animals and I can help the Fish and Wildlife people achieve the ecological balance that they would like for the herds in the area.  I have enough land to get elk tags automatically though.

22 ain't gonna work for that, unless you want to go tracking.

Get one of those .22 drum fed automatics that shoots over 2000 rounds a minute. You can carve a lot of things up with it.

Smiley

That would still most likely just piss off an elk and make it uncomfortable with a bunch of small lead lumps under it's hide.  I've got a 300 win mag for these animals.  If I need to take them from my newly prepared area I could probably do so with a 12 ga slug due to the topography, but I would like to make this be an area where they feel safe and comfortable.  I checked yesterday and there is cropped grass and elk droppings so it is working.  This winter I'll prepare some more area as pasture for this purpose.  I hope to fill both of my tags from the ridge in a different part of my property, and do the shooting from the valley floor.  That's what the win mag is good for.

legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 31, 2015, 05:06:49 PM
...
22LR rifles are allowed for trainings and hunting, but in order to be a hunter, you have to have lots of money and passion for drinking after every hunt. About .22 pistols - honestly, I have no idea.

That's news to me.  I hunt because I and my friends and family like the meat which is not infused with whatever they are putting into factory-farmed animals and I can help the Fish and Wildlife people achieve the ecological balance that they would like for the herds in the area.  I have enough land to get elk tags automatically though.


22 ain't gonna work for that, unless you want to go tracking.

Get one of those .22 drum fed automatics that shoots over 2000 rounds a minute. You can carve a lot of things up with it.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
October 31, 2015, 12:40:13 PM
...
22LR rifles are allowed for trainings and hunting, but in order to be a hunter, you have to have lots of money and passion for drinking after every hunt. About .22 pistols - honestly, I have no idea.

That's news to me.  I hunt because I and my friends and family like the meat which is not infused with whatever they are putting into factory-farmed animals and I can help the Fish and Wildlife people achieve the ecological balance that they would like for the herds in the area.  I have enough land to get elk tags automatically though.


22 ain't gonna work for that, unless you want to go tracking.
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