What's your opinion of gun control? - page 202.

TheButterZone

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Quote from: TECSHARE on June 19, 2015, 09:54:44 PM

Quote from: pattu1 on June 19, 2015, 09:28:17 PM

Quote from: funtotry on June 19, 2015, 08:53:21 PM

The difference between the UK and the US is a lot. Do you have places like detroit, chicago, do you have mexico right below your country, do you have lots of drug cartels, or gangs, as much as we do?
No. Period.

Why is Mexico relevant? Tongue

Because the cartels from Mexico are active on US soil too.

And the Mexican military has a penchant for crossing the border with air and ground forces. http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/06/27/report-mexican-military-chopper-crosses-into-us-shoots-at-border-agents/

TECSHARE

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Quote from: pattu1 on June 19, 2015, 09:28:17 PM

Quote from: funtotry on June 19, 2015, 08:53:21 PM

The difference between the UK and the US is a lot. Do you have places like detroit, chicago, do you have mexico right below your country, do you have lots of drug cartels, or gangs, as much as we do?
No. Period.

Why is Mexico relevant? Tongue

Because the cartels from Mexico are active on US soil too.

pattu1

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Quote from: funtotry on June 19, 2015, 08:53:21 PM

The difference between the UK and the US is a lot. Do you have places like detroit, chicago, do you have mexico right below your country, do you have lots of drug cartels, or gangs, as much as we do?
No. Period.

Why is Mexico relevant? Tongue

TheButterZone

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Quote from: bobc1994 on June 19, 2015, 08:50:10 PM

Quote from: bitcoin1992 on June 19, 2015, 04:53:26 PM

Because if a criminal wants a gun they are going to get it, law or no law. If the criminal has a gun I want one too.

It's much, much easier in America. In the UK we barely have any gun crime. Because guns are much, much harder to get hold of. It's not rocket science.

Because getting murdered/raped/maimed/etc with anything other than a gun (at the highest rate in Europe, last I heard) is morally superior to lawfully shooting a violent criminal (and likely not killing them) in self-defense.

funtotry

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Quote from: bobc1994 on June 19, 2015, 08:50:10 PM

Quote from: bitcoin1992 on June 19, 2015, 04:53:26 PM

Because if a criminal wants a gun they are going to get it, law or no law. If the criminal has a gun I want one too.

It's much, much easier in America. In the UK we barely have any gun crime. Because guns are much, much harder to get hold of. It's not rocket science.

The difference between the UK and the US is a lot. Do you have places like detroit, chicago, do you have mexico right below your country, do you have lots of drug cartels, or gangs, as much as we do?
No. Period.

bobc1994

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Quote from: bitcoin1992 on June 19, 2015, 04:53:26 PM

Because if a criminal wants a gun they are going to get it, law or no law. If the criminal has a gun I want one too.

It's much, much easier in America. In the UK we barely have any gun crime. Because guns are much, much harder to get hold of. It's not rocket science.

BADecker

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Gun control is about control. It isn't about guns.

Originally in the world, control was imbedded in respect for other people. The respect has withered so that control has been lost.

Probably in America (and many other countries) gun freedom should be re-introduced gradually. People will die, of course. But they are dying anyway. Guns aren't the cause of death. Lack of control is.

Once there is gun freedom, the people who don't respect others will die off. Respectful people will live on in peace.

Think about it. If we could remove all guns from the world like poof!, people would simply start making them again. Do you trust the police and military to be the only ones to have them? Better to arm all the people to the hilt, and let the disrespectful ones kill themselves off.

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Quote from: BLKBITZ on June 19, 2015, 08:24:56 PM

if people actually knew how to handle a gun and store away from children like a responsible parent then the statistics would be very different.

And if me grandma had balls she'd be me grandpa.

TheButterZone

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If guns were only made to kill, then they are defective most of the time as most GSWs are not fatal. Gun control only disarms law-abiding, mentally-sound, sober victims for criminals' safety. Do you think criminals with billions of pints of innocent blood on their hands have any compunction about the fabrication of statistics that "justify" disarming only their innocent victims, despite all proof beyond any reasonable doubt to the contrary?

BLKBITZ

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Quote from: Beliathon on June 19, 2015, 08:14:19 PM

Says it all.

if people actually knew how to handle a gun and store away from children like a responsible parent then the statistics would be very different.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: gentlemand on June 19, 2015, 08:17:10 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on June 19, 2015, 08:01:43 PM

What no one tells you about the "gun death" stats, is that it includes suicides, self defensive use of firearms, and police encounters with the use of firearms. Gun control pushers love to parade that stat around as if they are all murders.

Undoubtedly but the availability of guns perpetuates a cycle of violence. It's easier to pull a trigger in an emotional moment than to use cruder and more brutal methods.

The US murder rate is still 4.5 times more per capita than Britain. If we had guns pouring out of our arses no doubt it would be far higher too.

It might be deeply unfashionable to believe that if a society has less access to firearms, the less of its members wind up dead, but I've never courted fashion anyway.

Again I bring the question of which country has overall higher crime rates (including violent crime). Jurisdictions with higher gun ownership show far lower incidents of crime in general. People don't need guns to murder, that is why your country has to make it illegal to walk down the street with a screwdriver.

gentlemand

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Quote from: TECSHARE on June 19, 2015, 08:01:43 PM

What no one tells you about the "gun death" stats, is that it includes suicides, self defensive use of firearms, and police encounters with the use of firearms. Gun control pushers love to parade that stat around as if they are all murders.

Undoubtedly but the availability of guns perpetuates a cycle of violence. It's easier to pull a trigger in an emotional moment than to use cruder and more brutal methods.

The US murder rate is still 4.5 times more per capita than Britain. If we had guns pouring out of our arses no doubt it would be far higher too.

It might be deeply unfashionable to believe that if a society has less access to firearms, the less of its members wind up dead, but I've never courted fashion anyway.

Beliathon

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Says it all.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: gentlemand on June 19, 2015, 07:53:39 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 19, 2015, 07:41:31 PM

Well that's a neat little piece of information that tells you almost absolutely nothing. If that's your basis for your opinion, you've chosen a context the size of a peep hole.

It seems like rather a straightforward statistic to me. In what way am I fudging it?

Quote from: TECSHARE on June 19, 2015, 07:24:34 PM

Quote from: funtotry on June 19, 2015, 04:56:10 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on June 19, 2015, 02:02:15 PM

The UK is possibly the most restrictive country in the world with gun control, not sure. Per capita it has 0.25 gun deaths per 100,000 people. The US has 10.64 per 100,000. That's 40 times more gun deaths.

You can give me all the 'personal protection' 'criminals will get guns anyway' 'people will find other ways to kill themselves' shit you like. When American gun deaths are 40 times lower I'll be prepared to listen to that.

Ok, there is more gun deaths, but what about crime in general?
In the UK there are 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people. …The US has a violent crime rate of 466 [violent] crimes per 100,000 residents
That is almost 5 times more crime than the USA!

What no one tells you about the "gun death" stats, is that it includes suicides, self defensive use of firearms, and police encounters with the use of firearms. Gun control pushers love to parade that stat around as if they are all murders.

BLKBITZ

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Quote from: tiggytomb on June 19, 2015, 12:16:14 PM

Not based in the US, it seems to me that all these mass shootings tend to happen in places where there is gun control. I think it is quite obvious, if someone is going to rob you or your home or try to shoot up a place they will probably do this in a place they know there are no guns for people to defend themselves and stop these things after the first shot.

people stab people are we going to ban cutlery?

I have not been affected by guns so this is just my opinion from the outside.

They have already done this in Britain.

gentlemand

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Quote from: the joint on June 19, 2015, 07:41:31 PM

Well that's a neat little piece of information that tells you almost absolutely nothing. If that's your basis for your opinion, you've chosen a context the size of a peep hole.

It seems like rather a straightforward statistic to me. In what way am I fudging it?

the joint

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Quote from: gentlemand on June 19, 2015, 02:02:15 PM

The UK is possibly the most restrictive country in the world with gun control, not sure. Per capita it has 0.25 gun deaths per 100,000 people. The US has 10.64 per 100,000. That's 40 times more gun deaths.

You can give me all the 'personal protection' 'criminals will get guns anyway' 'people will find other ways to kill themselves' shit you like. When American gun deaths are 40 times lower I'll be prepared to listen to that.

Well that's a neat little piece of information that tells you almost absolutely nothing. If that's your basis for your opinion, you've chosen a context the size of a peep hole.

Chef Ramsay

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Quote from: gentlemand on June 19, 2015, 02:02:15 PM

The UK is possibly the most restrictive country in the world with gun control, not sure. Per capita it has 0.25 gun deaths per 100,000 people. The US has 10.64 per 100,000. That's 40 times more gun deaths.

You can give me all the 'personal protection' 'criminals will get guns anyway' 'people will find other ways to kill themselves' shit you like. When American gun deaths are 40 times lower I'll be prepared to listen to that.

There are different version of the United States: urban, suburban, rural. For instance, rule out the gun deaths in Chicago and then the rest of Illinois' gun crime is way lower. The US has way more urban areas all across the country than does the UK which accounts for plenty of the violence that is often drug and gang related. The bottom line is the gun is the great equalizer for small people and women against aggressive larger men no matter what the statistics are. All the countryside communities that are being overran by ISIS in Iraq and Syria don't have weapons nor do places in Africa where that other terrorist group is running roughshod.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: funtotry on June 19, 2015, 04:56:10 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on June 19, 2015, 02:02:15 PM

The UK is possibly the most restrictive country in the world with gun control, not sure. Per capita it has 0.25 gun deaths per 100,000 people. The US has 10.64 per 100,000. That's 40 times more gun deaths.

You can give me all the 'personal protection' 'criminals will get guns anyway' 'people will find other ways to kill themselves' shit you like. When American gun deaths are 40 times lower I'll be prepared to listen to that.

Ok, there is more gun deaths, but what about crime in general?
In the UK there are 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people. …The US has a violent crime rate of 466 [violent] crimes per 100,000 residents
That is almost 5 times more crime than the USA!

What no one tells you about the "gun death" stats, is that it includes suicides, self defensive use of firearms, and police encounters with the use of firearms. Gun control pushers love to parade that stat around as if they are all murders.

gentlemand

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Quote from: sdp on June 19, 2015, 06:46:27 PM

Yes 40 more gun deaths per capita.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

I suggest though you do an Internet search for 'gun control' with the countries Jamaica, Honduras and Columbia. See how the much 'gun control' laws have been enacted in those countries. Jamaica you cannot legally have a gun yet it has a per capita homicide by gun rate of 40/100,000. That is four times greater per capita than the United States.

sdp

Cold weather, emotional repression and general politeness help too.

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